Posts by 1Rafayal

Personally, I would be interested to see how many "old" PM'S that have been shipped over to impoverished countries are in use.

Years back, I worked in a school during the switch from Acorn machines to Windows based machines. We boxed up all the Acorn stuff and donated it to a charity collecting working computers for poor countries who wanted to provide at least some basic IT education.

Granted, the comparison between Acorn and Windows is beyond the point now, but I do know quite a few schools donated old machines and equipment to similar charities during the first few years of the new century. I wonder who uses them now, if at all.

Re: If there's one thing...

@roland6

Being an sme and having adequate IT support in your organisation has nothing to do with the nature of that sme's business. Things maybe trickier for the smb area, sure, but not for the sme. The solutions for purchasing these licenses have been discussed before over and over again - even on this comment section, again.

If I were running an sme and wanted to understand the implications of Windows 10 for my organisation with regards to the updates I would do one or both of the following : contact Microsoft to see what the situation mean for me and my business and see what I can do as an sme to control updates within my own infrastructure and/or make sure I am employing someone who understands the above.

So far the argument is "Microsoft is going to destroy business with forced updates". It really isn't. Microsoft may kill the consumer market for desktop operating systems, but if it does someone else will step into that gap - if there is still any money to be made there.

And what do high street retailers have to do with any of this?

Re: If there's one thing...

I am sorry, I assumed that the individual would be able to make their own minds up as to whether or not the T&C's for the action pack are suitable for them or not.

Or would you also like to tell the world + dog that this is also as evil as Windows 10? I mean, why let people make their own minds up when you can tell them what to think with only half the story?

Re: Russian roulette - business edition

Even though Windows 10 Enterprise does give you full control....

Re: If there's one thing...

You mean the same smb's who could buy the MS action pack, which comes with 10 Windows Enterprise licenses as well as office etc, for less than the cost of 10 Windows Pro licenses together?

Really?

Re: If there's one thing...

We have already been through this numerous times, and on each occasion you have been shown how each example can get an Enterprise license.

I get that you want to keep up the anti Microsoft narrative, but repeating the same things over and over again even when it's been explained to you that your understanding of the situation is incorrect?

What's the point?

Re: If there's one thing...

Hm yes, terrible Microsoft forcing business users to accept updates.

Are we going to have the same bullshit trotted out each time the Reg needs to get some traffic through the site? We already know that SME's are be able to purchase Windows Enterprise licences. Which means they would be in charge of updating their own installations. Which means no automated updates.

Re: You seem to have forgotten

But isn't the whole point of this particular whinge that there is no "latest" build to work against?

I am not sure what you are trying to say here.. How can you know if it is a stealth update if you have never carried out the upgrade?

it isn't a case of clicking a button and then bam, you have Windows 10, it asks you quite a lot if you want to install it in the first place. And if you don't have it downloaded already, it schedules the upgrade for you.

So, with the facts in mind, how its it a stealth upgrade?

Also, how are MS turning their backs on you? One of the biggest complaints about Windows 10 is that it will update, whether you want it to or not, so that's hardly being left high and dry is it?

Even the Android update process you allude to isn't as simple as one button press.

I upgraded three machines, one was a Windows 7 era machine, with Windows 7 Pro installed. Upgrade went fine, no problems to report. The only problem I had with this machine was after it had upgraded, the old Windows image previewer that came with Windows 7 was still listed as available under the "open with..." context menu. When I tried to use it, Windows 10 ground to a halt. For this particular machine, I ended up just reinstalling Windows 10 from scratch using a USB stick, after that, no problems and no legacy applications either.

The other two machines came with Windows 8/8.1 installed. The only issues I have had with these machines have been to do with video, sometimes watching stuff on YouTube is a bit hit and miss. One of these machines is now on build 14332, and everything seems to be fixed.

None of my machines came with Windows 10 pre-installed.

As for the stealth upgrade, that just isn't the case. People are complaining that its nagware - yes it does download a whole bunch of files to your machine and that's not on, to pre-empt you wanting to install it, but it doesn't install itself and it certainly takes well more than one mouse click to start the process.

Re: How could they force people to upgrade?

no one is forcing you to upgrade.

its been a choice to upgrade.

Re: Barrel. Scraped.

yes, but dont point out the obvious - it takes far more than one careless click to start the upgrade to Windows 10.

Re: Forgive me for not understanding how this happened

@Chris W

Dont question, this is an MS hate article.

Just accept, nod politely and move on.

Re: I'm frustrated with the Pro/Enterprise distinction

Pro has never been the version that MS wanted in business, it has always been Enterprise, ever since Win XP Enterprise etc.

Pro was just a version you could choose to own if you wanted the additional features, Home is just the easiest version to use because it doesnt have the same level of complexity that comes along with Pro.

With Home, you dont need to worry about Hyper-V, especially if you have never heard of it. In the case of Windows 10, one major difference between Home and Pro is the ability to defer updates. With Home you get the updates whether you want them or not, with Pro you get to defer them for a few weeks. Home is ultimately easier to support than all the other versions.

Why is that do you think? Perhaps MS was sick to death of trying to convince people to patch their OS over and over again, regardless of what you think of the quality of MS software or their business practises, having an up to date OS just makes sense which is why Apple and Google shove it in your face when there are updates to be had.

The distinction between Home, Pro and Enterprise is simpler than previous versions of Windows, Vista had six different versions, two of those were variations on Home. Same thing went for Windows 7. There were four versions of 8, if you include RT, if you dont then its just Home, Pro and Enterprise.

Windows 10 complicates things slightly by including an Education version, which is arguable the same as Enterprise. They also pile in the mobile builds as well.

So things have become easier to understand - its just that you havent heard of these versions before now.

Re: Same old, same old.

its not so much removing the Windows Store as preventing users from installing things on a machine they have no rights to do so.

it could mean that either the Windows Store is not as rock solid as it could be when it comes to securing it, or that MS isnt that confident of the quality and security of the content of the apps in the store. Or it may just come down to the fact that the Windows Store is aimed at non-Enterprise customers, I think all of the above make sense.

Re: Surface Products

I think Surface Pro and Surface Books will come with the Pro versions installed.

But I doubt the smaller Surface editions will.

If you buy the Surface Pro 4 as part of your volume licensing agreement, MS will through in Windows 10 Enterprise licenses for free, as you would expect.

If you buy one from PC World, you will only get Pro, as you would expect.

In my experience, few organisations agree to give out the Surface Pro. I worked for one that flirted with the Pro 3, but if MS is going to release a new piece of hardware each 18 months then they simply wont want to keep up with supporting it internally.

Having said that, the Surface Pro is a nice peice of kit, but there is not enough between the 3rd and 4th revision to justify the price. And the Surface Book, whilst lovely and powerful, is certainly not nice when it comes to the wallet.

Re: How is Win 10 Enterprise priced up for businesses?

@Colin Ritchie, no problems

I know a lot of people get the action pack subscription as it means they have all the MS stuff they could possibly need in one place, just be careful about renewing your subscription if you do get it - it will try and auto-renew.

Re: Isn't the Enterprise edition the only one you can't get a free update for?

No, thats Windows 10 Pro, you can defer updates.

Windows 10 Enterprise does not get auto-updated, its all down to your organisations update schedule.

Re: How is Win 10 Enterprise priced up for businesses?

@ Colin Ritchie, how about a sensible answer, eh?

You can normally only get an Enterprise license with a volume agreement with MS or one of their volume licensing partners. Also, it is only fair to point out that you cannot buy an Enterprise license without first having a Pro one - MS doesnt sell the Enterprise version as a standalone, MS view it as an upgrade to Pro.

This is why there are so many Pro installations of differing versions floating about in shoddily run organisations.

However, if you are feeling flush, take a look at the MS Action Pack, for £310 a year, you will get a couple of Windows 10 Enterprise licenses, amongst a whole bunch of other software you might want, like Office and stuff you might not want, like Dynamics.

Note that when you get things like Windows Enterprise, you dont install Pro first, then Enterprise over the top, the version is determined by the license key.

One good thing about the Action Pack is that once you have stumped up for the first year, you can keep and use all the license keys for as long as you want, as long as you keep a record of them.

You can see all the details here: https://partner.microsoft.com/en-GB/membership/action-pack

But its an awfully expensive way of getting an Enterprise license, unless you know someone at work that can get you a license from an MSDN subscription they have access to?

Re: Isn't the Enterprise edition the only one you can't get a free update for?

If you had Windows 7/8 Home you get Windows 10 Home

If you had Windows 7 Pro/Ultimate 8 Pro, you get Windows 10 Pro.

End consumers are not supposed to have licenses for Enterprise, you only get Enterprise licenses with a Volume agreement.

So you would never be offered a free upgrade to Enterprise by virtue of having one of the above installed.

However, MS are tripping over themselves to give out Enterprise licenses out these days.

Re: Proprietary code hardwired to use proprietary APIs to do stuff shock!

@h4rm0ny

there are a couple of things that need to be said here, because there is just too much nonsense being spouted about Windows 10. And this isnt aimed at you personally, but instead aimed at the general lack of understanding about what happens with Windows 10.

I dont know if the following is the same as the slurp that also takes place on Windows 7, 8 and 8.1

First lets look at Google and Apple. With Google, everything you do and say is analysed and checked in order for them to target you with ads. With Apple, you cannot even start using any of their operating systems without an Apple ID. If you choose to use Siri, then it defaults to Safari.

With OK Google and Siri, everything you say is checked, recorded and analysed after being sent back to HQ and recorded. They may even be listening in at all times. You cannot turn this off.

The same is true for Cortana and the desktop search feature of Windows 10, anything you say to Cortana is used by MS to target products and services towards you - I dont know if that includes third parties, I would imagine it will if a third party offers a product or solution that MS doesnt already push. Same goes for Skype, every chat and voice call is analysed in the same manner.

So, whats the difference between the MS approach and the Google/Apple approach? With MS you can turn it all off, completely off. There is a dedicated feature in Windows 10 called Privacy that allows you to hobble exactly what gets sent back to MS, you can go further - disable Cortana and desktop search, even less gets sent back. Dont use Skype and you wont be checked on there either.

Want nothing to get sent back at all? Then dont even link your MS account, Skype/Hotmail etc and just use a local account - then nothing, as far as I know, gets sent back to the MS Deathstar. This is in the terms and conditions.

What do you lose by doing this? Well, things like One Drive, the ability to use Skype, voice commands via Cortana and the use of the Windows store. Is that a massive loss to anyone? Probably not, apart from Skype maybe.

So the difference between MS and the rest is that you can make Windows an entirely private affair, if you are willing to lose some functionality, unlike the competition.

I guess the argument will be "If you use Linux, your world is a safe, private place". Well, yeah it is - until you start using any Google services, or Skype or perhaps any other third party service that also slurps data

Re: Proprietary code hardwired to use proprietary APIs to do stuff shock!

I think I have just answered my own question.

I am on the fast ring and am currently on build 10586.218. Yesterday, Cortana would bring up Chrome for a search request, this morning I get Edge.

Disappointing? Yes.

End of the world? No.

Re: Proprietary code hardwired to use proprietary APIs to do stuff shock!

I use Cortana for scheduling etc, until recently I didn't use it for searches.

Then I found Chrometana, a Chrome plugin. Does this mean that MS are now knobbling the ability for a Chrome plugin to work correctly? Before I installed this, not only was I stuck using Bing, I was also stuck using Edge (which isn't a bad browser, I'm just used to Chrome).

I am on the fast ring, so I should get this "update" pretty soon, if it exists.

Re: Oh, yeah...

if you have a mic attached and if you have Cortana enabled and if you have opted in to allowing Microsoft to collect usage data then people assume that Cortana is listening to everything you say and reporting it back to Microsoft.

Despite the fact that Cortana only really works for Americans properly. And even then it can only perform simplistic operations, its clunky and not as nice to use as Siri or OK Google, or even the XBox One OS which probably is listening to everything you say.

But in all honesty, its just FUD. If everyone who had Windows 10 installed with a mic attached and Cortana setup correctly, how exactly would MS crunch all the data? And what would they be looking for?

At least with Samsung TVs that apparently do listen in for certain things, they know what they are looking for.

But dont bother listening to me, I am apparently a Microsoft apologist.

Re: Oh, yeah... @1Rafayal

@Rolan6

you mean the licensing agreements for Server, Office, Exchange, SQL Server etc that all come with

Windows Enterprise entitlements?

Those ones?

Or maybe the licensing agreements you get with the MS Action Pack?

Or maybe the agreements tied into your MSDN subscription?

Or I guess there is the gold partnership subscription agreement...

Can you think of any more?

The fact of the matter is, like it or not, for everyone who is complaining about the GWX nag affecting business, it comes down to how your organisation is handling its licensing. Even if your organisation installed the dreaded Windows 10, there would be no automatic updates unless the administrators allowed them to take place.

Even WIndows 10 Pro users can defer updates for what, for 3 months or something?

Re: Oh, yeah...

P. Lee

just out of interest, do you use Google?

Re: Oh, yeah...

Hm, let me see - trust The Register when it comes to reporting things about Microsoft, or trust searching the internet... I know which one I would go for.

I still dont have my 100 downvotes for my second post. As soon as I do I am making a donation of £10 to Clic.

At least then something sensible will have happened.

Re: Oh, yeah...

@Doctor Syntax.

Unless I have completely read this article wrong:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/3080351

Then it would appear to me that the GWX nag and download is automatically suppressed from certain enterprise versions of Windows. It also looks like the icon for GWX is also automatically suppressed from certain enterprise versions of Windows.

Now, on to what version of Windows would be suitable for them to deploy in house. As a news station they have been operating for over 60 years and have what looks to be just under 150 members of staff. Deploying and maintaining the professional version of Windows Vista or 7 would be, in my opinion, the wrong choice in terms of administration and cost for an organisation of this size.

I would imagine that who ever is in charge of their IT function would have (or in this case should have) made use of Microsoft's volume licensing deals in order to get the best value out of the software that they are clearly using. However, you are making the assumption that they are using the professional version in the first place, and not the home version - either way it makes no difference because both versions would get the nag.

I wont speculate as to what productivity or office software they are running, I think everyone can make an educated guess on that.

Administering this many WIndows 7 or Vista Professional installations is, at best, as fun as setting your balls on fire. Thus making the Enterprise version not only cheaper but easier to maintain. Additionally, many IT teams that have to work with Windows installed on the desktop will go with the enterprise version as it is simply given away for free with what ever else they might have licensed from Microsoft.

Using the enterprise version means that they have full control over the update process, and in the case of Windows 10, no GWX nags, downloads or icons.

@DaddyHoggy

Do people in your lab have admin rights on those machines by any chance? Given that some have the icon present and some dont, I would start to think that maybe someone has been playing around with the way they are configured? Or possibly the way they are updated?

In general, if organisations are using enterprise versions of Windows, the GWX nag, download and tray icon are automatically suppressed. The only way it would become apparent is if the administrator either chose to allow it to appear or made a mistake during a patch run.

The whole GWX nag and download is aimed at the home consumer, not at business. Business has been bombarded already with Windows 10 nags, but in a completely different way entirely.

Lets see if I can reach 100 downvotes for this.

Re: Oh, yeah...

I dont think you would see Microsoft advertising a desktop OS on an exsiting installation of a server OS.

That just doesn't make any sense to man nor beast.

A lot of people here will now start to cry, whinge an moan about how this will impact bussiness, blah blah blah.

You dont get the GWX box pop up if you are running the enterprise versions of Windows. So, if this news station had been running an enterprise version of what looks like either Vista or 7, the popup would never have ruined their lovely weather report.

Fully prepared for the downvotes.