181 posts • joined Monday 11th June 2007 14:01 GMT
I sincerely hope you'll win this case, this DA is completely out of his mind.
Next thing we know, getting a tan on the beach in a swimsuit will be forbidden too.
@elreg: keep us updated aye ?
Jailbreak much ?
WOW, IMPRESSIVE !
Wait, do you mean it does just what you can do on a jailbroken phone ?
There's this little application which tricks the phone into thinking it's connected over wifi, even if you're using 3G, and which might or might not be available on Cydia.
Not that I've ever tried it, my phone contract states I'm not to use VoIP over 3G, and I don't want them to slap me on the noggin -.-
Well to be honest, you're not too bright are you ?
Do you not see a problem with people that would sooner deprive us of the god fucking given right to share music, say with our friends at home ?
How long will it be before you need to pay extra to let other people hear your stereo ?
How much longer until a passenger in your car has to shut his ears because he hasn't paid the RIAAss tax for this or that song ?
How long until you're not allowed to whistle a tune anymore because that'd be sharing it illegally ?
Have you not heard of cases where labels sued _schools_ because teachers made the children sing ?
The problem is not with freetards, the problem is with the business model.
Society has evolved, not the labels.
I'm eagerly awaiting your constructive reply to this:
Watch movie on TV, record it to harddrive with your triple play internet offer. Legal.
Watch movie on TV, forget to record it like a muppet, download it overnight. Illegal.
Difference: a lot, apparently.
OH MY GOD
They copied an apple !
NOBODY ELSE should have the right to use apples.
SUE THEM ALL, SUE THE FRUIT VENDORS TOO.
DAMN SNEAKY CAPITALIST BASTARDS TRYING TO SURF ON APPLE'S FAME !!!!111!!!!!
Am I doing it right yet ?
Stupid Apple retards...
Re: Really Stupid
Actually, Spore was available on newsgroups *before* it actually hit the stores and without the slightest hint of inconvenience.
It's the legit customer that takes the shaft with DRM, as usual.
Regarding your comment here:
"Frankly if I was into games (and Spore looks fun) I'd be downloading a cracked copy right after I bought it just to prevent this DRM crap clogging up my PC so here's a radical thought, why not treat customers as people you value instead of treating them like thieves?"
Take a wild guess at what I might or might not have done ;)
And with Oblivion, and with Baldur's Gate, and with most of my games with a CD check...
And with my Wii games because I'm not very careful with my disks...
And with my PSP games because loading times from UMDs are just annoying, thus using ISOs is much faster...
In the end however it makes me wonder:
Why do I bother buying it if I still have to download a cracked version to enjoy it properly ?
"phails", not "fails" !
Fix it already ;)
Re: Fair use
First, UK law doesn't apply in France, thankfully.
Second, ripping an audio track from a movie I bought definitely qualifies for fair use.
Re: Fair use
I almost forgot, thanks for bothering to read the wall of text :p
First, piracy doesn't make companies lose sales.
I wanted a demo of Supreme Commander, couldn't find one that would download at a decent speed (I mean hey, 100kbs for 2gb ? dream on) so I grabbed the full version from newsgroups.
I now have the retail version sitting in my house.
I wanted a demo of The Witcher, couldn't find one that would download at a decent speed (TWENTY KILOBYTES ?) so I grabbed the full version from newsgroups.
I now have the collector edition sitting in my house.
I wanted a demo of Assassin's Creed, couldn't find one that would download at a decent speed (wtf only 200kbs?) so I grabbed the full version from newsgroups.
I now have the box sitting in my house.
What's more, a downloaded game doesn't equate to a lost sale.
I played the demo of french hack and slash Loki and it only featured one character class out of the 4, which I didn't like.
I somehow acquired the game and it didn't appeal at all, so no, no sale for you.
Did I mention my PSP runs a custom firmware and I mostly play my old GBA games on it ?
Or my girlfriend's NDS which has a linker to play ROMs and yet we must have 4 of them so far ?
Or my Wii which has been modchipped for over 4 months and has only seen 1 downloaded game, one that's not released in Europe ?
Piracy ? Looks like a good sales booster to me.
Hell a week ago I wanted to buy a single song on the interweb and couldn't find a decent service without DRM.
So I grabbed Audacity (GPL = win!) and ripped the song away, it falls into fair use anyway.
Now let's talk about DPI.
They're gonna use DPI right ?
How are they to differentiate *legal* and *illegal* copyrighted contents ?
Surely it's all bits in the end ?
What about password protected archives ?
SSL usenet ?
Or perhaps I'm downloading from a dedicated server in sweden (try hellanzb.py guys) and thus not committing an offense in France ?
This is plain ridiculous, all the more since the report on the effects of piracy has been established by FNAC which is far from neutral.
Even if their DPI crap were to work (hey guess who's gonna pay the price for all this expensive and ineffective DPI hardware ? consumers ?), that won't prevent people from trading DVDs like we did floppies.
Ah well, at least the report does ask for the end of DRM so something good *might* come out of it.
A french guy that bothered to read all of the report and found it very biased.
alienware ? SCRAM
If it goes in an Alienware, the poor disk is being wasted.
Overheavy, overheating computers with PISS POOR customer care.
Wait, your computer overheated because we actually fsckd up at assembly time ?
Alright, we'll give you one extra month warranty and pray your pieces fail in 32 days.
Alienware eh ? NEVER AGAIN.
Illegal even with opt in
Even if it's opt-in it remains illegal.
A user can't give consent for *my* articles on a *private* section of *my* website to be intercepted.
My own consent is still required, the lawsuits WILL roll.
at BT's comment
A BT representative meanwhile wrote in an email: "I don't see anything wrong with correcting Wikipedia articles about your own company or services."
Yeah right, besides violating the site's policy they agree to abide by ?
I guess they saw nothing wrong either in conducting the stealth data pimping trials.
MONEY WILL FLOW
Regardless of legality in the UK under DPA and RIPA, it still isn't legal in France where my servers sit, and where my intellectual property is hosted.
Now I can't wait for the moment Phorm starts *intercepting* *my* intellectual property and make money out of it.
I'm so sueing and claiming damages.
Please not the legal crap again
"Written by civil servant Simon Watkin, it argues that the system will probably be legal if consent is obtained from users."
Oh will it ?
A client consents to his data being spyed upon.
Said client connects to *my* servers, logs in a *restricted* area and receives *my* data (say a tech article).
Phorm *intercepts* said data without *my* consent and falls foul of RIPA, despite having the end user's consent.
Despite of what BT and Phorm may think, a user can't give them consent to intercept intellectual that belongs to me.
Phorm can't be legal because it'd need consent from every site admin and publisher everywhere.
Instead of trying to be a smart ass, get this in your head:
People think -with reason- that NDAs apply because to bypass them a *warrant* is required.
See the big picture here ?
The asses at customs try to play cowboy and act bullies, and now they're pissed cause the courts told them off.
Surely if Phorm wants to profit from *my* data, which incidentally is *my* INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY (whether it be search terms for google, an article in a private forum (which they don't have a right to see in the first place) or a poem to my better half), they'll need to have a contract with me ?
I'm not signing for any lower than $10k a month, and that's without warranties of productivity, I might not write another article for some months.
No contract, no *stealing* my intellectual property.
Re various comments
Quote from reply: "Over a barrel"
"To which the ISPs simply respond, "OK we'll start charging our customers by the gigabyte and remove all caps on transfer limits." At which point, film and music piracy on the internet falls to a tiny fraction of its current level"
You mean, at which point every user switches to a 128kbs line which will be MORE THAN ENOUGH for email and browsing, for $5 a month ?
ISPs are going to make a fortune.
Quote from reply: "Obliged to"
"What is it you think they are obliged to provide, they certainly aren't obliged to provide access to iPlayer if they don't want, they are perfectly free to throttle that traffic just as they do with p2p traffic. Hell, if they want they can block it entirely."
Can you spell breach of contract ?
They have a right to manage their network, however completely blocking a site or service for arbitrary reasons is a denial of the service they've contracted themselves to provide.
No service, no contract.
Quote from "I don't want to complain"
"Is there not a market for an internet provider, that provides a fast, unmetered internet access, for a reasonable cost. No value adds, no support beyond "our network is cool, the problem's your end, JFGI", no "free web space", no "portal", just a cool, clear connection that works? Or is such a thing an impossibility?"
Free in France ?
Their customer support is piss poor but the network is awesome.
Unlimited offer for 24mbs tops, of course usually you're closer to 10-20 but that's still very good.
Did I mention I'm 900m away from the exchange and I'm grabbing from newsgroups at 2mbytes per sec, which is around 22mbits ?
Going for €29 per month, and they're deploying fiber as we speak.
Re: What a joke
I was thinkiing just that.
However please notice that he's not been convicted for *data theft* or unauthorized introduction into a computer system; but for ID theft.
The court didn't retain the introduction bit because there was no crime related to getting the files, as they were willingly offered.
ISPs point ?
Wait, what is the ISPs' point here ?
That the BBC's player eats bandwidth ?
They're blaming users for using the bandwidth they've subscribed to ?
Or are they saying the 20mbs you're paying for was never even close to 3mbs in the first place, because ISPs sell bandwidth they don't have ?
They sell bandwidth at overly inflated rates:
"Hey pal we've installed you a 10gbs line, but you can only use 2kbs at a time because we sold it to 6bill other users and our network can't cope; however let's agree you pay for a 10gbs subscription".
NOW ON SALE
PEER TO PEER VPN SERVICES.
GET YOUR OPENVPN CERTIFICATE NOW \o/
1/ Connect to my OpenVPN server
2/ Set it as your default gateway (you'll obviously need a static route to its public IP first)
3/ Browse your net alright.
SERVICE STARTING $2 ONLY (£1 for UK sheep).
COME ONE, COME ALL \o/
Afk, filling a patent.
French ISPs for the win, at least they don't try to push crap down our throats, have formidable bandwidth (did I mention hitting 2000kb/s on newsgroups over SSL ?) and no quotas.
About less advertising
Quote from page 4:
"Long term, we believe if you're opted-out the experience you're going to get is quite crappy because you're going to get bombarded with ads. Of course, the ISPs benefit too from the additional revenue. That's not evil."
And just HOW will that reduce the number of ads ?
We'll still have billions of "regular" untargetted ads on websites.
This means instead of the usual billion, we'll be getting billion+phorm.
Sorry but I'm not sold on this.
Furthermore and as Dave points out, it's not *irrelevant* advertising that upsets people, it's just advertising, simple.
I'm using adblock and noscript and I'm no where near to disabling them.
Thanks for answering El Reg's questions to clear things up guys, but even then I'm not sold.
I don't want advertising, period.
I know what I want to buy, when, where, and at what price.
I have a *very limited* list of trusted sites I'll do business with, and an *excessively large* (read: rest of the world) list of untrusted ones.
Thumb up icon because you guys went open to appease the public.
"The problem is not that the US owns ".com" (and is nice enough to let any old Johnny Foreigner to use it, too)"
Oh is that so ?
Let's have a VERY FUN contest then.
Make the americans use their very own root servers, and the rest of the world theirs.
And see who owns what name.
Hell, it'll be awesome when a domain is registered to 2 different entities, and being an american using the *wrong* root servers leads you to the incorrect hijacked patriotic one.
Americans don't OWN anything to be honest, see their face if the root servers were put in somebody else's control.
My dig nameserver asks for a file containing the root server addresses, and I'd be more than pleased to change them for *world owned* ones.
You use alternative root servers and you can redirect everything, anything, even create the .xxx domain that the US prudes rejected even though everyone else wanted it.
You use alternative root servers and the US disappears from the net, for being bullies for much too long.
You use alternative root servers, and you hand the .com to someone else than verisign, someone who won't hijack it with it's awesome SiteFinder service.
The name system doesn't rely on the US or its institutions in the end, it relies on people's willingness to use the US established system.
Create a new one handled by new root servers and wave the US monopoly goodbye.
Hahaha actually WORTH watching to check out the horror
Title says it all really.
Think I'll grab myself a screener or something just to see for myself if the imdb comment was accurate ^^
SORRY, I SAID I WAS GOING TO BUY THE DEEVEEDEE BECAUSE DOWNLOADING WOULD BE ILLEGAL.
On the other hand I like to point El Reg readers to another movie starring Paris, which was widely acclaimed by the public: A night in Paris
"@Dam - well no the buyers don't make the rules that's the point. You can't go into Tesco and take anything you like for free. I couldn't expect to break into your house and take what I liked could I? You are within your rights as a consumer to avoid companies you don't wish to do business with, which includes members of the BPI/RIAA."
You miss my point.
My point is, they can make up as silly rules as they like.
In the end if customers don't like them and choose to take their business elsewhere, the labels end up selling nil.
Hence: the customers "make" the rules.
It has been literally years since I last bought music on CD (or at all, with the exception of this Ultramax-music.com album last year) and I hardly ever download any.
Actually thinking back on it I think the last CD I bought was Nyana from Tiësto say what, 4 or 5 years ago.
And it's got absolutely nothing to do with downloading, it's just that:
- I'm happy with the music collection I currently have
- I'm happy to put a comical movie in the drive, toggle media player classic's display to NULL, and listen to it in the background
- Web radios work as well as our old radios and don't imply buying anything
- One can actually record tracks from web radios in all legality, google for "streamripper".
"The fact is if you want music published by a major label you have to play by their rules. "
Oh yeah ?
Who's the customer here ?
Customers lay the rules.
If I'm not happy with their rules I'll just buy elsewhere, this is the law of offer and demand to its simplest.
This is why legal download companies are switching to DRM-free formats.
Just a lil' side note for the sake of it:
Mid december I came accross the test of PC game "The Witcher".
I started grabbing the demo from fileplanet at a whopping 80kbs speed; fook that.
I checked on torrents and newsgroups, no *demo* to be had there, but a full game.
Ah well, I took the full game from newsgroups over an encrypted connection for which I pay monthly, around 1200kbs is much nicer.
Install game, play for a few hours, like it.
End result ? I asked my gf for the Collector (and pricey) edition for Xmas.
P2P nets them a sale yet again.
I can quote some games I bought after getting them "illegally" (either before ADSL was widespread via friends, or by downloading nowadays), by chronogical order:
-Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 + addons
-Icewind Dale 1 & 2 + addons
-NWN 1 + addons
-Temple of Elemental Evil... basically the whole Dungeons and Dragons series really.
-Jagged Alliance 2.
-Dungeon Keeper 2.
-Silver (a nice RPG actually).
-Black and White.
-and The Witcher lately.
Hey I was almost forgetting, World of Warcraft.
Yeah right, girlfriend and I wanted to try it out but there was no Demo offer yet, downloaded a version via torrents, installed, played 30 mins on a private server and we both got ourselves a copy + account.
LOST SALES ?
SERIOUSLY LOST SALES ?
They need to stop considering everyone like thieves really.
I consider games I download more a demo version to be honest, seeing I get full versions at around 1mbs via newsgroups, as opposed to 2gb demos at 80kbs via fileplanet.
Don't like ? Uninstall and remove the heavy ISO.
Bioshock ? beeeh, I'm definitely glad I didn't buy it, played it a full hour before uninstalling.
F.E.A.R ? Same.
This reminds me I need to write to the editors of the Witcher and tell them to put a demo available via torrent and newsgroups btw.
You rant about legal P2P being bullshit:
My brother downloaded the WoW installer via P2P, I downloaded the Sabayon linux distro via P2P.
You rant about people claiming music is crap, yet listenning to it:
Ever heard of www.deezer.com ? legal, woo.
Now why on earth would I want to download an album (let alone buy it) when there's only 2-3 tracks I like, and I can listen to them freely ?
You rant about small bands:
Hey I actually bought the albums from Ultramax (see http://www.ultramax-music.com/) after listenning to a few tracks on http://di.fm ...
And it's all DRM free.
That's the kind of stuff I'll gadly buy, the rest can fade from existence as far as I'm concerned.
Now about the technical matter of identifying IP addresses.
EVEN if ISPs were somehow allowed to decrypt data, or accept logs from torrent-grabbing bots as proof, all they get is an IP address.
And behind this IP there might be:
- an open or unsecure wifi , not everyone's IT litterate
- a zombie
What's more, *I*'d gladly pay $5-$10 per month to legalize what few downloading I do from time to time.
Give me a global license to download DRM-free stuff and I'll happilly cough up.
Insist I must watch DRM-crippled stuff on Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Premium Double Plus Max Platinum Limited Edition (beta) and I'll tell you to fuck off.
"It's reported it will also recommend adult content be included in separate government moves to make ISPs filter the internet."
Does that mean we'll be able to get to the porn without all the annoying other stuff that clutters Internet ?
Hell, that's good news !
Re: fake friends
"Ah, come on, we've all got to do something to 'give meaning to our empty, howling souls'. Some of us knit, some of us engage in charity work, some of us rack up a healthy number of postings on website comment threads complaining about stuff. Diff'rent strokes."
While the *really* (re)productive people in this world browse porn.
You fail, to be honest.
"Yahoo Messenger is just better than other IM clients which don't support things like offline messaging."
Or is it ?
I mean... ICQ much ? Welcome to 8-9 years ago ? Offline message from day one ?
If you're going to make claims, get them right first please.
This is not mentionning the fact that (crappy, granted) Live Messenger does support offline messaging...
Fast justice for the powerful :o
Jeez, it's been what, one, two weeks ?
If only cases were as fast for us regular citizens.
I'm still happy they won, it'd have set a very bad precedent otherwise.
Ryanair play this game of "I didn't think it'd shock anyone", fine then, now foot the bill.
PS: I can't see the Paris Hilton angle, unless shes does girl-on-girl with C.B. ? Full name obfuscated for obvious reasons :p
What did you try to say ?
"Ryanair, of course, won't give un cuss d'un tinker what Sarkozy thinks of the ad" ?
Is that even english ?
It's not remotely french, at least.
"won't give un cuss d'un tinker" ?
If you like, post the sentence in english and I'll give you that in french for the extra style points.
But this, is beyond my understanding...
"(And why should I have to take out another subscription when I already have a 3G Voice/Data one!?! )"
Well just buy a regular Eee, not the operator's bundle ?
You're not very smart are you...
Signal: Light years
You're all talking about us being already 50-100 light years in.
Now, seriously, you're aware that *radio* signals *don't* travel at the speed of light ?
using as a modem not part of the data plan ?
"using the cellphone as a modem wasn't part of his data plan"
Errr, hold on there.
What's a modem supposed to do then, playback dumb tones ?
That's called dialing, after that it kinda transmits... you know... *data*
Microsoft's Santa ?
He had too much of it for his own good, my, what with him offering oral...
@Edwin: you fail
WD have brought this upon themselves, not el reg.
They're the ones that push their box with false and deceptive advertising.
Seriously, BOFHesque :p
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