* Posts by AdamWill

901 posts • joined 4 Nov 2010

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Fedora 21: Linux fans will LOVE it - after the install woes

AdamWill

Re: systemd vs Play Services (was: play the ball not the player?)

I'd say that's a complete misunderstanding. I can see where the idea comes from if you don't know anything about how RH works, but it looks nothing *at all* like that from where I'm sitting. systemd isn't really a Red Hat project at all. It's a Lennart project. Lennart isn't an RH plot; he's an engineer. RH hired him based on his Avahi/PulseAudio work. No-one ever told him 'hey, Lennart, Red Hat wants to own init now. Go write an init daemon, and make it a big one.' He just got interested in the area and decided to write something; same as he did with all his other projects. He'd have done the same if he'd been working for Wal-Mart.

systemd got adopted in Fedora because Lennart proposed it and fought the technical merits until he won. It got adopted in RHEL for the same reason. It came from the bottom up, not the top down - there wasn't some PHB somewhere coming up with a strategic vision for the future that involved an init system, it was an engineer pushing something he thought was good. If you want to look at the stuff that actually *does* come from Red Hat's strategic vision and gets dropped into Fedora, look at stuff like Cockpit and FreeIPA and to an extent the Cloud stuff (though some of that is engineer-driven, too). That's the stuff RH's 'strategic vision' is resulting in. Not init systems.

It doesn't really *benefit* RH to 'own' init (not that we do; even if you accept that Jude person's point that there are ~10 core contributors to systemd, half of those don't work for RH). That's not much of a selling point to any of our customers. It's just more work we have to pay someone to do. Have you looked at RH marketing lately? Have you seen how much of it is about systemd? That would be 'none'. It's all hybrid cloud this and container that and devops the other. I mean, I just went to https://www.redhat.com/en and clicked around the marketing crap aimlessly for about 10 minutes and the word 'systemd' didn't appear once.

Oooh! I finally found it, on page 6 of https://www.redhat.com/en/files/resources/en-rhel-whats-new-in-rhel-712030417.pdf , which is six clicks from the front page, one unobtrusive link on https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/linux-platforms/enterprise-linux . Prominent, this ain't.

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AdamWill

Re: Why install when it's going to be obsolete in a few months?

Er, no. Believe it or not, not everything is about systemd. I was talking entirely literally about climate change. I stopped reading this site regularly back a few years ago when they'd post a new anti-climate-change wibble from Lewis Page every day - he's still at it, see http://www.theregister.co.uk/Author/93/ , though he seems to have slowed down a bit.

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AdamWill

Re: @DrXym - No to gnome, no to systemd

The RHEL default desktop isn't a server GUI. It's a desktop GUI. People run RHEL on desktops; we have major customers running multiple thousands of seats on it. That's what the RHEL desktop is for.

Probably most people running RHEL as a server OS don't run a graphical desktop directly on the system at all; those who do usually run something pretty geeky and minimal, not GNOME. That's not what GNOME is for.

RH is working on 'server GUIs', but more in the line of webapps than graphical desktops running directly on the server machines. See, for e.g., Cockpit - http://cockpit-project.org/ , included in F21 Server - and the FreeIPA web UI - demo site at https://ipa.demo1.freeipa.org/ipa/ui/ .

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AdamWill

Re: @AdamWill - As Gnome 3 requires systemd - NO THANKS

"If you guys were that great in changing the design of Secure Boot why didn't you change it to allow replacing the Microsoft public key ?"

Er. What?

The UEFI specification's Secure Boot definition does not make any requirements whatsoever regarding who should be the provider of the platform key, or any other key, or whether any keys at all should be provided in any particular firmware implementation.

The Microsoft labelling requirements explicitly require that the system owner be able to replace the Microsoft key. Look, they're right here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/jj128256.aspx

"On non-ARM systems, the platform MUST implement the ability for a physically present user to select between two Secure Boot modes in firmware setup: "Custom" and "Standard". Custom Mode allows for more flexibility as specified in the following:

A.It shall be possible for a physically present user to use the Custom Mode firmware setup option to modify the contents of the Secure Boot signature databases and the PK. This may be implemented by simply providing the option to clear all Secure Boot databases (PK, KEK, db, dbx), which puts the system into setup mode.

B.If the user ends up deleting the PK then, upon exiting the Custom Mode firmware setup, the system is operating in Setup Mode with SecureBoot turned off."

"Let's not forget that by doing what you did you prevented the rest of the Linux community to stand up and fight"

What do you mean by 'doing what we did'? And how did that prevent anyone else who gave a crap from pulling their finger out and doing something useful?

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AdamWill

Re: Lost me at 7.

"Those who like systemd should do a forensic exam of a failed system, do this using a linux that does not support systemd."

Why? What's the point of that entirely artificial restriction?

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AdamWill

Re: Fedora is doing its best to drive me away

You can install any package set from the 'Server' network install image, it is really a generic network install image. The Product stuff is a first cut in F21, it's still being shaken out; this kind of quirk will be straightened out for F22/F23.

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AdamWill

Re: F21 - Harder to install XFCE than it should be.....also PAE

You can use the Server network install image to deploy any package set. The generic DVD image is gone, though - something had to give, with the Product changes. Sorry about that.

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AdamWill

Re: Why install when it's going to be obsolete in a few months?

Er, if anyone was paying me to do PR, they'd want their money back, I think. No-one's sending me anywhere to do PR, my job is QA. This I do on my own time, God knows why. I've been posting here since it was a useful tech news site and not some sort of weird climate change sceptic backwater, and long before I worked for RH....

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AdamWill

Re: Why install when it's going to be obsolete in a few months?

If you'd rather use something with a long life cycle, that's entirely up to you, but it's kind of presumptive to assume you speak for everyone "who use our machines as a tool to get on with our actual work".

Fedora's life cycle is ~13 months (technically it's 'until one month after the next release but one comes out' - F19 goes EOL in a couple of weeks). That's not like RHEL, or anything, but many people find it perfectly viable for getting all sorts of 'actual work' done, and upgrades generally work well these days.

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AdamWill

Re: No to gnome, no to systemd

They don't.

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AdamWill

Re: No to gnome, no to systemd

"Nitpicking aside, answer my original questions about the necessity of a qr code lib and a http server for journald."

Simple: they aren't necessary. Fedora's systemd does not require an HTTP server:

[adamw@xps13 ~]$ cat /etc/fedora-release

Fedora release 21 (Twenty One)

[adamw@xps13 ~]$ rpm -q --requires systemd | grep http

[adamw@xps13 ~]$

Fedora's systemd is built against qrencode, but that's a Fedora choice:

[adamw@adam anaconda (master %)]$ cd ~/local/systemd/

[adamw@adam systemd (master %)]$ grep -R qrenc *

configure.ac:have_qrencode=no

configure.ac:AC_ARG_ENABLE(qrencode, AS_HELP_STRING([--disable-qrencode], [disable qrencode support]))

...

Build systemd with --disable-qrencode if you don't want it to have a qrencode dependency (or in fact just don't build it with --enable-qrencode , disabled is the default). The benefit is some convenience when setting up keys for Forward Secure Sealing of journal contents; see the --setup-keys argument in 'man journalctl' for details.

As for the HTTP server - again it's a compile time option, --enable-microhttpd to turn it on. Fedora does in fact build with it, but then splits it out into a subpackage so the core systemd does not depend on microhttpd. The subpackage is systemd-journal-gateway . As that name suggests, the feature it supports is allowing remote access to the journal; the thinking was that there's a handy protocol lying around for reading information over a network which everything and its dog supports, so why not just use that instead of inventing some new protocol for remote accessing journal data? See http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-journal-gatewayd.service.html . Of course, even when the package is installed this is not enabled by default, and the package is not installed by default.

"Of course the broader question is why does so much of systemd, which is replacing the OS incrementaly, need to reside in user space?"

Erm. Why would you want to build it into kernel space?

"Why the single point of failure in PID1?"

There's *always* been a single point of failure in PID 1. That's sort of what PID 1 *is*. Note that much of systemd does not run as part of PID 1. systemd-journald, for instance, is pid 559 on my system as I write this. systemd-udevd is pid 606. systemd-logind (the daemon GNOME uses, for the 'GNOME requires systemd!' haters) is 871.

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AdamWill

Re: As Gnome 3 requires systemd - NO THANKS

Actually, we're the guys who got the original Secure Boot implementation designs substantially changed to be less sucky. Without the RH representatives in those discussions, all systems with Windows 8.1 pre-loaded would likely be as locked down as an iPhone.

You're welcome.

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AdamWill

Minimal install

Thanks for the review, glad you enjoyed F21 overall!

"Given the base system shared by these new flavors, I hoped there might be a plain, base flavor - something akin to Debian's Minimal install, which would let you build a more customized desktop. But so far that's not something Fedora is doing. In fact, the Fedora project emphasizes that the base set of packages is "not intended for use on its own"."

Where did that "not intended for use on its own" quote come from? It might need tweaking. You certainly can do a minimal install of Fedora, and it's fairly common. It won't be a Product, but it's a perfectly valid Fedora install. To do it, use the Server network install image, go to the Software Selection screen and pick the 'Minimal Install' option, it's all the way down the bottom of the left-hand column. (Note for the haters: Minimal still uses systemd, NetworkManager and firewalld. Sorry, haters.)

"With Fedora's installer it isn't immediately clear what you need to do – or even that you need to do something"

Well, er, there *is* a rather bright orange bar at the bottom with a little attention icon, that says "Please complete items marked with this icon before continuing to the next step." And the spokes you have to complete - only Installation Destination is required, usually - are marked with that attention icon. Was this not visible enough?

"GNOME on Wayland is still very rough around the edges and there are a number of apps that won't work with Wayland (some of which might never be ported to use the Wayland protocol)"

Note that most of those should still run in a Wayland *session*, via XWayland. In fact I think it's still the case that most apps run via XWayland in Fedora's Wayland GNOME session by default - GTK+ 3 does *have* native Wayland support now, but it was still so crashy the devs decided not to use it by default yet.

"Other Fedora 21 highlights include some SystemD updates"

Nitpick: it's systemd, all lower case. The 'SystemD' spelling tends to be associated with the comment thread monster raving loony faction, so the devs get sensitive about it.

Thanks for all the kind words!

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TECH BUBBLE? No, no way, nope, says Silicon Valley investor

AdamWill

Re: Here's the real red flag...

If we're losing this much of your money right now, think how much *more* we could be losing in a year's time!

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Old hat: Fedora 21 beta late than never... and could be best ever

AdamWill

On schedules

Matt Miller (current Fedora project leader) has a take on 'delays' which I hope people will consider:

http://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-21-beta-is-on-for-november-4-and-a-word-about-fedora-schedules/

Fedora's release schedule is a hybrid of time- and feature-based, which perhaps isn't always best communicated (and it's much easier to look at a date and say 'hey, it's that date and this didn't happen' than to understand all the subtleties behind it).

F21 was never planned to be a six month release cycle from the start, and was pretty much expected to have some bumps, since there's so much change involved.

Aside from that, glad you're enjoying the Beta so far. We hope the Final shouldn't diverge too far from the current schedule (we really don't want it to drag out past December).

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GNOME 3.12: Pixel perfect ... but homeless

AdamWill

Facebook workaround

There's a bug report for the Facebook issue:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726609

which notes that you can actually navigate the Facebook UI behind the 'too small!' overlay using tab and enter, and authorize the account that way, as a workaround. That works, I checked (though it's a bit tricky to see).

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AdamWill

small correction

"In Fedora, for example, most of the account setup process is handled in the Anaconda installer, thus bypassing the GNOME version."

Not in fact. You aren't required to create a user account in anaconda; you have to *either* set a root password *or* create a user account with admin privileges (otherwise we can't be sure you'll have root access to the installed system). If you just set a root password in anaconda, you'll get the no-user-created-previously version of GNOME's initial setup tool.

Even if you create a user in anaconda, you still get most of the GNOME initial setup process after first boot. The only step missed is the user creation step, because...you already created a user. Seems sensible. You should still get the bits about language, keyboard layout, and online account configuration (and anything else I forgot).

Thanks for the bug report about Facebook user accounts - I'm about to see if I can reproduce that here.

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Sanity now: Gnome 3.12 looking sensible - at least in beta

AdamWill

Re: New day, same...

"Still a touch-oriented UI on a non-touch desktop"

No, it really isn't. If it was touch oriented, you wouldn't see this:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr;query_format=advanced;status_whiteboard=touch;bug_status=UNCONFIRMED;bug_status=NEW;bug_status=ASSIGNED;bug_status=REOPENED;bug_status=NEEDINFO

"Still missing 99% of the functionality of Gnome 2"

Yawn. Troll.

"Still hard-wired to systemd (why does a DE have a dependency on a specific init system?)"

It doesn't. It has a dependency on a decent session manager. ConsoleKit wasn't one. logind is. If someone had written a good one that wasn't part of an init system, GNOME would happily use that. If you write something else that implements the logind API, GNOME will work fine with it.

"Still bloated beyond belief"

Wait, I thought the cool thing to say about GNOME was it didn't have enough features? How can it not have enough features yet be bloated beyond belief? I'm confused.

"Still driven by sneering twits like Lennart "do you hate handicapped people" Poettering"

You appear to be confused. Lennart is not a GNOME developer.

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AdamWill

"belief"

"which would seem to fly in the face of GNOME's belief that features confuse users"

There is no such belief. It's just an invention of snarky tech journalists. More actions on right-click in the Dash have been planned all along; just the devs got around to doing it now.

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DJANGO UNCHAINED: Don't let 'preview' apps put you off Fedora 20

AdamWill
Joke

Don't worry, future archaeologists will find your body in the vast cavern labelled KDE Control Center in a mere handful of thousands of years ;)

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Look! GNOME 3.10 (with Fedora 20). Did we mention GNOME 3.10?

AdamWill

Clarifications, corrections

"The other, more controversial change in GNOME 3.10 is the disappearance of the minimise button. The only button you'll see in the top right corner of a GNOME 3.10 window is the close button. The GNOME developers think the typical trio of buttons is just too confusing. At this point there seems little point in arguing, the button is gone, GNOME 3 marches on"

Um. This isn't anything new in 3.10. Minimize buttons haven't been present by default since 3.0. Perhaps you turned them back on in gnome-tweak-tool and then forgot you'd done it?

What is 'new' in 3.10 (though really I think 3.8 or even 3.6) is that some apps use the 'combined' titlebars you mention, and those don't have 'minimize' buttons even if you enable them in gnome-tweak-tool.

"It's not hard to see the inspiration for Software – it looks and behaves pretty much like Ubuntu's Software Center."

Kinda, but FWIW, we've had a plan to build something like this for several years and never quite got around to it until now. It's 'inspired' as much by the Android and iTunes app stores as Ubuntu's - it's basically just the whole concept of 'app stores' that it's an implementation of.

"The Fedora project wiki is in a transition stage at the moment, migrating to a new feature-tracking process, which at the time of writing does not offer much in the way of progress reports."

Well, it's not the wiki per se that's "in a transition stage". It's the feature process, which just happens to post some of its content on the wiki. It used to be the 'feature' process, it's now the 'Change' process, it's mostly inside baseball you don't really need to worry about. "Progress reporting" hasn't actually changed much, and isn't an incredibly strong point of the process in either form - it relies on the feature/change owner providing progress reports voluntarily. But if you just want to see what stuff is definitely scheduled to be in Final, you need to be looking not at the _proposed_ list but the _accepted_ list: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/ChangeSet

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AdamWill

Re: Fedora devs, please wake up!

What do you mean 'your GNOME 3'? Fedora doesn't write GNOME. GNOME writes GNOME. We just ship it. If you don't like it, use any one of the other dozen+ desktops we also ship.

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AdamWill

You can still use yumex if you want something 'GUI-for-yum'-y. In fact, the old gnome-packagekit stuff still exists for now, but I don't know if Richard is going to maintain it any more.

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Dell orbits Linux a third time with revamped Sputnik notebooks

AdamWill

Re: Depressing comments

But that weighs an extra 0.8lbs and is much larger (not just for the screen size, either - it's a less efficient design with a much bigger screen bezel). For $1,000 you only get a hard disk: if you want an SSD - which the XPS 13 has - it's an extra $125, which is almost back to the price of the XPS 13, for a bigger heavier system.

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Ubuntu 13.10: Meet the Linux distro with a bizarre Britney Spears fixation

AdamWill

Mir? Mirbe not.

"Ubuntu 13.10 is, however, something of an iceberg - the bulk of what's new is hidden away under the surface. Ubuntu 13.10 marks the arrival of Mir, Canonical's new graphics stack designed to replace the ageing X Server."

Or...not so much.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ3NDQ

"Ubuntu 13.10 Desktop Will Not Use XMir By Default"

Seems like they really thought this one through carefully.

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AdamWill

Re: Do you actually SEARCH your files and programs?

"Do you really use search to find the programs you want to start, or the files you want to open? You don't use menus or browse?"

Yes. Typing 'start, xc, enter' - without even needing to look at the screen, as it's an entirely predictable interaction - is approximately sixty thousand times faster than going start, mouse or keyboard navigate up to 'internet' or 'chat' or some other weird category, mouse or keyboard navigate through a pokey list to the entry labelled xchat, click or hit enter.

I'm stuck in Xfce at the moment because GNOME 3 is not working (occupational hazard of being a QA guy and testing lots of marginal stuff), and hating it. I can't find anything in these ridiculous Windows 98 menus.

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AdamWill

Re: All very nice ...

"The web is absolutely full of users bitching about these two items."

There are about three people in the world who both a) still have and b) are still, for some bizarre goddamn reason, attempting to use a G400, so no, no, it really isn't. It is always a valuable thing to get a realistic handle on how much everyone else actually cares about your Precious Snowflake Bug. The answer in your case is 'not at all'.

Have you asked Windows for a Windows 8 driver for it yet? How's that going?

(For those who don't remember, or weren't born, the G400 came out in 1999. It was moderately popular, for a year or two.)

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Breaking bad: Oracle's Unbreakable Linux website takes a break

AdamWill
FAIL

Re: I wonder who uses this Linux

Yes it is. (I work for RH). Oracle takes our entire product, rebrands it, and then attempts to steal our customers by claiming cheaper support prices (and not bothering to do any of the hard engineering work).

Of course, when someone tries to compete with Oracle by offering third party support for their products, they welcome them, say 'this is capitalism!', and compete fairly. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH JUST KIDDING no they don't, they sue their pants off: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/07/26/2346235/oracle-sues-companies-it-says-provide-solaris-os-support-in-illegal-manner

Oracle: truly the world's shittiest company.

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Red Hat parachutes into crowded PaaS market

AdamWill

Free tier

(Note: I work for Red Hat, but not on Openshift). The story seems to be missing the information that Openshift has a free tier - three small gears with no official support. The $20 tier adds support and more storage (6GB vs 1GB on free), and a few other things. See https://www.openshift.com/products/pricing .

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How Microsoft shattered Gnome's unity with Windows 95

AdamWill
Thumb Down

Reasoning a long way ahead of its evidence

This post seems to reason a long way in advance of its evidence.

It seems to attempt to tie Microsoft's 2007 patent sabre rattling to the desktop specifically, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence for that. The apparent quotation - "the Linux desktop including OpenOffice" - is not sourced, and so far as I can tell, neither the Reg article it links to nor the source *that* article links to actually contains that text. The source and my memory both indicate that Microsoft was talking about Linux or even F/OSS in general, with no specific focus on 'the desktop'.

Note that the GNOME "Big Board" effort and the independent 'Gimmie' project, which together basically kickstarted the discussion and prototyping work which ultimately lead to the development of Shell, both date to early 2007 (April or earlier): *before* Microsoft's sabre-rattling in May 2007. See http://blog.ometer.com/2007/04/03/gnome-online-desktop/ , which pretty much marks the start of the "Online Desktop" / "Big Board" efforts, and http://www.ubuntugeek.com/gimmie-a-new-panel-for-gnome-installation-in-ubuntu.html , an article about an early version of Gimmie which is dated January 2007.

I don't see any compelling evidence to suggest that the long process of discussion, design and prototyping which started in early 2007 and ultimately led to the development of GNOME Shell and GNOME 3.0 has anything to do with Microsoft's May 2007 patent sabre rattling.

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Fedora's Schrödinger's Cat Linux gives coders claws for thought

AdamWill

Re: Let's hope

The bug darklordsid seems to be referring to is this:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=890616

In F18, PackageKit couldn't install packages without a signature - which is often the case with third party packages. So yeah, it was a genuine bug, and a bit annoying if you were trying to use PK for third-party packages.

That was fixed with https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2013-0957/PackageKit-0.8.7-1.fc18 , back in January, so it's been sorted for a while now. It *was* just a bug, not a conspiracy.

There is still an outstanding bug that it can't install a package signed with a key you don't currently trust (it should allow you to do so after warning you and requiring you to authenticate to allow the override) - that's https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=911442 .

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AdamWill

worth noting

It's worth noting the bug only actually affected libreport, which is used for the automated bug reporting tools - abrt and the SELinux troubleshooter thing. You could report bugs manually through Bugzilla fine, it was just the automated tools that broke briefly.

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AdamWill

Re: Bug report

Just call it Fedora 19, then. The release name really only exists for the publicity benefits. Very few Fedora users actually refer to the names, they just use the numbers.

The fact that the name broke various things (never mind automated bug reports - it actually broke *system boot*, briefly) is kind of a good thing: it made the code better. The best way to find out if your code is safe for extended characters is to throw some at it; if we hadn't used a release name with an umlaut, a space and a single quote in it, we'd never have found some bugs in various bits of code. Now we did, and the code's better.

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AdamWill

Re: You can get cinnamon without getting the DVD,,,

Note that'll only work if you're starting from GNOME - cinnamon is just an alternative shell for GNOME and I don't think the package has all its dependencies properly in place yet, so just 'yum install cinnamon' from, say, a KDE install will give you something that probably won't work. But yeah, if you start from a GNOME install, 'yum install cinnamon' will get you a fine working cinnamon.

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AdamWill

Re: LVM on RAID?

Yeah, that was added back for F19. I don't think it was broken 'for a few revisions', though - only in F18. F17 was still on the old UI and LVM-on-RAID still worked with that. It was one of the things that missed F18 because we just didn't have time to get it in (though you could still do it with a kickstart), but it's back in F19. How it works is that in custom partitioning you can edit properties of the VG itself, and RAID level is one of these.

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AdamWill

Re: Boots quickly in VirtualBox...

"Anaconda is still pointlessly shouty (lots of headings entirely in capitals for no good reason) and the custom disk partitioning is painful - no obvious option to use all remaining space on device for a partition. I ended up putting in a big size value and let it truncate it down, but that's not great. They're still annoyingly mixing size units (K, MB and GB all on the same screen) too :-("

Again, you can just enter no size at all and it will use all remaining free space. And again, I don't see why you think it's wrong to mix size units. It would make no sense to list a 1MB partition as '1000KB' or '0.001GB', would it?

"Still no package size or description is displayed when the packages are being installed"

And I still don't see why you think there's any particularly good reason to do this, other than making the installer look busier.

"Am I the only one who actively dislikes those white/blue coloured multiple progress bars at the bottom of an otherwise black screen when Fedora boots (yes, the ones that tell you zero about what's going on)?"

Probably. You seem like someone who REALLY CARES A LOT about things that seem really pretty trivial (like, er, all of the above). For the record, though, you only see that screen if kernel modesetting is not working - so basically, usually only in VMs. On actual machines, you get a fully graphical boot splash which is just a big blue screen with the Fedora logo in the middle.

"When I first logged in, I got about a dozen file explorer windows open (this is a known bug that will be fixed, but it just looks sloppy, even for a beta)."

It's also only in MATE, which is not a top-tier supported desktop (in Fedora, GNOME and KDE are supported the most strongly - they're the only desktops in which bugs can block the release - followed by Xfce, LXDE, Sugar, MATE and Cinnamon in about that order). We run a six month release cycle, we have a test team of about a dozen people inc. paid and volunteers, and Fedora includes at least a dozen desktops; there's a pretty hard limit to how strongly we can test them all for a beta release. And it wouldn't have really served any purpose for anyone to delay the Beta release just to fix a superficial bug in MATE.

"I also got an immediate SELinux balloon warning which is bad for a vanilla install"

Again, that doesn't happen in KDE or GNOME; it's actually tied to the lightdm login manager. We were tracking this bug prior to release and the lightdm that shipped in Beta was actually meant to fix it, but the packager made a mistake and inadvertently left the fix out of the build we shipped. The bug is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=922958 . Xfce, MATE and Sugar use lightdm in 19. The AVC is actually basically harmless, it doesn't affect functionality of the system at all; you don't have to turn off SELinux just because you saw an AVC, in fact that's almost always the wrong response. It's much better to report it and follow the report. They are usually resolved very quickly.

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AdamWill

Re: Let's hope

To be honest you're pretty much right about that (the GUI package manager). It is not great. It doesn't get much development love and quite honestly it doesn't get much use; in my experience most Fedora users just use yum, and those who use a GUI tend to prefer yumex. We pretty much just test each release that it can install a package, remove a package, do a system update (and yeah, the feedback it gives you while it's doing that kinda sucks), and call it good.

We have a plan to develop an 'app store' type application which would be a much better GUI for 'I want to install an app to do X' kind of tasks, and updates are kinda _supposed_ to be done via the 'offline updates' mechanism now (but GNOME still didn't really get around to obsoleting gpk-update-viewer, so GNOME's story here is something of a mess at present).

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Fedora 19 lands in beta with updates for devs, cloud

AdamWill

Re: Desktops

Yup, still in the repos.

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AdamWill

Re: Will this fix the installer?

F18 didn't actually do that, but I can see where you could've got confused. The UI has been refined quite a lot for F19, so it ought to be clearer now.

After you select the disk(s) to install to, if there is sufficient free space for a Fedora install, Fedora will offer you three options: install to the free space available, use a simple interface to remove or shrink some existing partitions to make even more free space for an install, or use custom partitioning to define the layout yourself.

If you don't have enough free space to install you'll get the latter two options.

If you just pick to go ahead and install, it'll use the free space - it won't delete any existing partitions or data - and it will configure dual boot with any existing OSes that grub2-mkconfig understands automatically.

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AdamWill

Desktops

"The new version includes updated versions of the Gnome, KDE Plasma Workspaces, and MATE desktop environments, and a number of Fedora "Spins" are available that support still other desktops, such as Xfce and LXDE."

Just to clarify this: GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, MATE, Cinnamon and Sugar are available as 'primary' desktop environments for DVD and network installs. All of the above except Cinnamon are also available as live images. Yet other minority/niche/t3h h4rdc0rez WMs/desktops are also available in the repos, including at least fluxbox and e16. I tested all the 'main' desktops (those listed above) for the Beta, and they all work.

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Ubuntu without the 'U': Booting the Big Four remixes

AdamWill

You don't need proprietary drivers for 3D desktops

"The bigger picture, though, is that none of the big three desktops - Unity, GNOME 3 or KDE 4 - are a good fit if you don't have a decent OpenGL accelerator in your machine, plus the appropriate proprietary drivers."

This is a highly inaccurate statement. You do not need proprietary drivers to get decent 3D acceleration on Linux any more, in most cases; certainly not enough acceleration for accelerated desktops to work perfectly well. Fedora does testing with the open source graphics drivers, and in our experience, about 80-95% of all graphics adapters work perfectly well for GNOME Shell with the open source drivers (intel, radeon and nouveau).

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Ubuntu? Fedora? Mint? Debian? We'll find you the right Linux to swallow

AdamWill

Re: It is about the money and applications.

"In all cases it was due to custom disk partitioning and not wanting to use LVM."

Whatever you set the 'Partition type' dropdown on the 'Installation Options' screen to before you go into custom partitioning, will be the default type for newly-created partitions in the custom partitioning screen. So if you want to use plain ext4 partitions, it'll be easier if you set that dropdown to ext4 before you enter custom partitioning. Even if you don't, you can change the type after creating the partition; select the partition, expand the 'Customize...' expander on the right hand side, and you'll see the relevant options.

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AdamWill

Re: .. and then there were 2

"SuSE is a Red Hat derivative."

No it isn't. It uses the same package format. That's not the same thing at all.

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AdamWill

Re: My take

"Excluding the major irritation that the gnome SSH keyring didnt work. I couldnt get my ssh keys added on startup and the known bug had yet to be resolved."

Known bug? I'm not aware of one and it works fine here. Is this Cinnamon-specific? Or are you using autologin?

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AdamWill
FAIL

Re: "Comfortable with the terminal"

Way to take things out of context. Let's put it back in context, shall we?

"Anyone planning to primarily use Linux to write software or develop web applications will likely be quite happy with Fedora, which does a good job of shipping up-to-date developer tools like Python, Ruby (and Rails) and web servers like Apache. The software installer may not be the best, but the command line Yum installer works just fine so long as you're comfortable with the terminal."

So, what's the context? First off, we're talking about "Anyone planning to primarily use Linux to write software or develop web applications". If you're writing software or developing web applications and you're not comfortable with a terminal...erf. Secondly, note the lead-in: "The software installer may not be the best". This is picking up from an earlier paragraph where Fedora's default graphical package installer (PackageKit) was criticized for not being as good as Ubuntu's and Mint's. So what this paragraph is saying is "if you're a software developer, the benefits of Fedora in terms of having a wide range of up to date development packages available outweigh the minor disadvantage of the graphical package manager not being the best, particularly since you're probably going to wind up using the command line package manager anyway, since you're that kind of person".

But no, fine, by all means, take four words out of context and stick to your two decade old bash if it makes you feel better.

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Chinese Twitter shuttered during murder trial

AdamWill

Re: subhead?

Really, my point is that it seems impossible to be entirely sure of what the hell happened given the murky circumstances, so printing anything as a bald fact is going a bit far.

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AdamWill

Re: subhead?

Er...but you write in the last sentence:

"It's believed the guilty plea itself was forced as part of an attempt to limit foreign media coverage of the trial"

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AdamWill

subhead?

"Wife of party official plied Brit with booze, then poison, as revenge for deal gone wrong"

it seems rather...bold to print accusations of anything this serious and sensitive that happened in China as a fact, unless you have gold-plated video footage or something. A one-day trial seems hardly worth accepting as the kind of legal proof news organizations usually consider necessary before printing something like that as a definite statement, rather than an allegation or possibility...

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How talent-spotting boffins help Team GB bag Olympic gold

AdamWill

silly logic nitpick

"The basic entry requirement was also strict. Never mind a sneaking sense you’d quite like to give rowing a go, first you had to be tall: the tallest woman on Sporting Giants was 192.7cm (6’4”) and the tallest man 217.3cm (7’2”)."

That's silly: I can see where you were going, but it's incorrectly demonstrated. If you want to say that 'in order to get into a group of things, a thing needs a certain attribute' you don't cite the member of the group with the _most_ of the attribute - that proves nothing. You cite the member of the group with the _least_ of the attribute. If you told us that the _shortest_ woman on Sporting Giants was, say, 5'10", that would prove (or at least go further towards proving) that you have to be quite tall to get in. Saying that the _tallest_ woman is 6'4" proves exactly nothing, in the context - it leaves entirely open the possibility that the shortest woman was 4'10" or something...

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US will fight ITU members for internet domination

AdamWill
Joke

oh, what a choice

"Russia suggested that some of the responsibility for handing out internet addresses should go to the ITU instead of all being under the control of US-based organisation Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)."

Oh, what a choice - Russia or ICANN. Where's option c)? Hell, we should probably contract it out to the monkey house at London Zoo...

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