82 posts • joined 29 Sep 2010
Re: A SPARC thread without Matt Bryant....
Don't see much of Bryant these days on Unix related matters, the reg (and the world tech press) has sweet F'all to report on HP-UX and itanium these days.
He appears to expouse his (mostly) right wing views on things frequently on other threads though, so it's not as if has disappeared.....
The most dense CPU ever created, Oracle is doing things with SPARC that Sun alone would not have been capable of, good to see from this former Sun Shiner, never thought I would say that!
Why do these people exist?
I have not commented in a long time, but this is the biggest load of fucking bullshit I have read in any IT publication. Generally Chris's Storage articles are pretty good, not quite up to the former TPM's *Nix ones but not far off.
Please tell me you wrote this up for a giggle? Most of it doesn't even make any sense!
Try a more credible source source than this pointless outfit (wikipedia them...) next time, or don't post the story at all.
Good News - however you want to spin it
SPARC shops now have a choice of 2 variations on sparcv9, which power/Itanic shops do not. Good news either way you cut it, of course our resident trolls will say otherwise....
And as for a Unix Server
Best case in point here:
IBM RS/6000 running AIX 4.3.3, a good 9 years old, running Websphere MQ as a messaging hub for the whole of Europe for a very large Custodial bank.
We had this server running flat out, CPU's pegged at 100% for over 3 years, never missed a beat. Never missed a transcaction.
That's why Unix and RISC runs the world chaps, leave the BSOD'ing PC's to create your word docs and excel spreadheets......to be frank that's all they are good for.
Supposed Windows "Techies".....flame away.
Cloud...here we go..again
Another "Private Cloud" announcement then...
Discreet vitualization using either VMware, KVM, LPAR's or zones/LDOM's.....or even Hyper-V if they are stupid and a windoze shop.
Tell me what the fuck is different to what I have been doing for the last 7 years, apart from the marketing bullshit fucking lingo!
Even you can't bullshit yourself out of this one...
SP/L or whatever it is...
Don't know where you lot have been working, but 3 out of my 4 employers (now a contractor so any training I will pay for myself) have paid for any neccessary training.
I must have had at least 50K's worth from the Sun/IBM/Red Hat catalogue, if you pick the right employers (and you are good enough to work for those employers) then they will pay..simple as that.
Suggest you lot go and work for some decent companies...
Thats it then...
Just the 2 more gens of Itanium to see them most of the way into this decade and no more HP-UX and Itanium, it's all been expected for some time, although I suspect a certain HP fanboy will roll through shortly, frothing at the mouth in denial as always proclaiming Itanium and HP-UX shall continue on forever. Or as usual, when it's a negative HP story he will stay mostly schtum..
However, a big boy x86 box with 32 sockets+ is very, very tempting, and if HP get's there first with a good commercial offering then they will sell shitloads of them. Red Hat on one of these beasties would be awesome just for pure grunt or large scale consolidation.
HP will continue to be the worlds Premier Tin Pusher as it is now. But alas, no OS, no Database, No Middleware, no Apps of any real use or any market penetration at all mean that tin pushing is all HP will ever do. Their value has plumetted by over half over the last year and it ain't gonna get any bigger now. Not a hell of a lot of money to be made in pushing tin.
see IBM/Oracle for a lesson in how to make some money in this game.
It's a RAC cluster
It's an Oracle RAC cluster running under Veritas Cluster and vxfs/cfs cluster filesystem.
I was on a training course for VCS for RAC (on Solaris) with a HSBC guy, it's an 8 node RAC cluster running on T-Series Sun Servers.
Being as it's running under Veritas Cluster, not surprising...
Look at the bigger picture..
All this bickering...
At least someone is taking it to IBM, Larry is aggressive yes, is he a bit if a cock, yes. But at least he's doing what you would expect and creating competition which in turn moves the market forward.
Oracle is doing good things with SPARC, and that's good to see. It's doing good things with it's all in one completely integrated vertical stack. No one else apart from IBM can or has done this, (HP could have done but it decided to become the worlds premier tin/ink pusher, look how thats turned out for them...share price fall speaks for itself)
I'm Ex-Sun, but unlike a certain people on here who are Sun/Oracle "supporters" (like its a bloody football team) I have a massive amount of admiration for IBM, and the thought of IBM and Oracle going head to head is great.
Exadata is doing well, like it or lump it. At Both of my last contracts at major US and German banks they bought several of them, CIO's like the idea of an "appliance" and the costs do add up, they work out cheaper and easier to maintain than your standard distributed systems model, it's gone full circle back to centralised computing or "Cloud" as the numpties like to call it.
So in a word, chill, and appreciate that a bit or bravado and competition is a good thing for all of us.....
Why don't you just admit that your beloved HP has a bumbling bufoon of a CEO, the guy is a walking disaster. 44% value lost since he took the job? And you are still going to defend him, he makes ponytail look good and that is saying something!
"Firstly, the hp PC bizz is profitable, it's just not that margin rich"
Lol's, that saying something, 5% is a great margin isn't it? Makes you wonder why no one else wants to push all that tin...oh yeah that's right, no one does, apart from the Lenovo, acer, samsung...
"The truth was not one division of Sun could have survived as a stand-alone company in the decline to the Sunset."
No argument there, but then this is about HP, not Sun is it...
"hp has a long history of co-operating in a profitable manner with the Linux market and also with Microsoft. Oracle's relationship with M$ is hilarious to watch, and IBM's is based on requirement rather than love on either side."
HP has along history with Co-operating with these companies, because it has no x86 OS, and no bloody database. It has no choice but to co-operate so it can push all that commodity tin...Oracle's relationship with microsoft is "Hilarious" why? How many Oracle DB's or middleware or Business apps are deployed on Windoze Matt? not many at all...
"When customers like us want advice and tools to help us implement Linux solutions, we know we can talk to hp"
Or IBM, or Fujitsu, or Dell, or hell even Oracle, any one of them can sell you some COMMODITY TIN! If you need HP's advice on Red Hat then well you lot don't know your Red Hat very well then do you...
"Which is why I'm quite optimistic that hp's new software thrust will co-operate with SAP, Microsoft, even IBM and Oracle"
This is just plain funny, Oracle? Seriously? In case you didn't notice HP's new "Software Thrust" is non existant, what software of any real value does it have? No OS (Oracle has killed HP-UX, look at all the statements HP has been making crying about how Oracle has screwed them), no database, no middleware, no Java app server, no CRM, no ERP. It's relying on a suite of infrastructure management products (Openview....) and Autonomy, and that's it.
Not much of a Thrust, more of a half hearted limp...
At 40 Billion market cap, once it has spun out it's PC business and printers it's up for grabs by IBM/Oracle/Mickeyshaft. HP has realized too little too late that pushing tin is not a game that will last long in this day and age.
I remember a few years back working on a majro Openview and OVPI implementation at a former employer, rippied out Tivoli (which worked just fine) and replaced with Openview.
The whole implementation was a joke, start to finish. The installation of the OVO manager was written for HPUX, so had to be re-written for Solaris (what we were deplying on), the agents which ran on our Unix servers were leaking memory and had to be completely reinstalled, the agents also took it upon themselves to go and change the ownership of core OS directories such as /tmp (removed the sticky bit, caused havoc..) /var/tmp, /opt and maybe a bunch of others.
HP is a company I have zero respect for, they "Invent" bugger all.
Now they want to go and call themselves a software company, off the back of Openview *cough* and now Autonomy's search.
They are up against IBM/Oracle/SAP - All of which have a good RDBMS, good business software and middleware/App servers (SAP has no weblogic/websphere equivalent as far as I know though).
Good riddance to them.
Our dear Matty B is in depression, having realized that his beloved HP is being managed by bunch of clowns who don't know their arse from their elbow. He's probably also quite upset at having lost 44% of the value of his share's since SAPman took over....Lol.
When you get get 64 socket x86_64 box which scales linearly in a single system image then let me know, I'll be the first to dump SPARC/POWER, but that isn't going to happen for a long time yet.
Geez what is it with the commentards today.....you all fail.
Shouldn't have been buying Massively threaded CPU's which were never designed for single thread oooomph for single threaded workloads then should you?
Oracle, of all companies, isn't really gooing care about the scientific community, they don't have much spending power and when they do spend lot's to buy HPC setups HPC builders such as IBM/Cray/SGI don't make much money at all, hence Oracle not competing in that market.
If it doesnt make them money they won't do it, simples. One reason why they have lots of it.
Looking nice Oracle..
Let's see what they actually deliver, but it all looks promising for all the Solaris shops out there. I know my next contract (An absolutely massive Solaris shop) has T4's on the ground and are evaluating them, so be nice to get my hands on them.
Awaiting the usual suspects...
Been saying it for ages...
You cannot just be a pusher of tin and expect to make decent money in this day and age. IBM recognized it nearly 2 decades ago, and HP is only just converting itself to a "services" company. Problem is they have no software with which to do it...no database, no middleware, no application servers, no business apps. Stuff IBM and Oracle has in abundance, along with hardware lines to run them on.
Palm was a fuck up of gigantic proportions, a year on and it's a write off. HP has finally figured out that it cannot compete in the consumer space, hence PC/WebOS murder. Problem is that it cannot compete in the enterprise either. High and dry is what they are.
Printer ink has carried this company, that isn't going to last...
@ Richard 120
Of course we live in a capitalist society, you matter not one jot to your employer, Fujitsu, and any other public listed company has one mission only, to deliver for their shareholders. As long as that will be the case the bottom line is all that counts, and employees will continue to get stiffed. It doesn't matter what your personal thoughts on the matter are, whether you consider yourself a capitalist or socialist makes no difference, we live in the UK. Do I like the fact that fat cat's chase bonus's and short term gain over long term loss for the sake of their shareholders, no of course not.
Do I accept it, yes I do. I have chosen to go freelance so I am not subject to the poor pay raises and bonus's, anyone in IT can do it (if your any good), if you don't then that is your choice and you have to live with it. Get a new job, go freelance, or move out of the country, those are your options....take one of them or shut up.
FFS Just Deal with it!
Our industry is our industry, capitalism is capitalism, just deal with the reality of it for fucks sake and stop moaning.
I didn't think my pay raise's and bonus's were up to much, so I have left and am working for myself, as a freelancer, running my own company. Whether it works out of not remains to be seen, but I am giving it a go, and not sitting on my ass moaning...
I'm fairly young, been in the industry for 9 years, that's it. But I think there is a major difference in mentality over us "young uns" (up to mid 30's) and people a bit older (Over mid 30's). Us younger folk know we are expendable, we have no loyalty, absolutely none, for our employer because we are not shown any in return, we accept this. Older folk appear to think they have a "right" to stuff, job's, pay raises etc. You have rights to absolutely bugger all....consequence of living in a fiercely capitalist country. Move with the time's people, if you don't like where you are simply leave and get another job, if you can't, or don't want to, don't fucking moan about it. I hear this shit from people all too often, not just in IT....
One Windoze comment..says it all really
What you been smoking mate?
Ah...just looked at your post history, Mickeyshaft troll...
My own 2 cents, I am a very happy Iphone 4 user, I waited until the 4 as I didn't think the 3G/3GS were quite there yet. Android was a serious consideration but when I spent time (too much of it...) looking up the platform, the fragmentation in OS versions, the need to install custom ROMS to keep up to date, the poor catalogue of apps, no equivalent to podcasts (I use this extensively now, for BBC4, comedy, Music set's, Sport...and its all FREE), no app2sd at the time, the fragmentation in hardware specs causing some apps to not work on some phones.....
The list went on and on, and that was a year ago, I look at it now, and it's still the same shit! None of it (apart from app2sd) has progressed, same old problems. This leads me to believe these problems are inherent with the platform, if it aint fixed now it never will be.
Thats why I won't ever buy android. Not while Apple are making a product that I am completely happy with in every way.
Just putting a troll in his place....
Joerg is the guy who writes the c0t0d0s0 blog, ex-Sun, current Oracle.
Funny thing is kebabert has never had any connection with Sun, was never an employee, so why he carries on the way he does is beyond me.
Lol - Kebabert
You even got told to give it a rest by the c0t0d0s0 guy!
You are a blatant troll who add's nothing to any discussion whatsoever apart from quoting what you call "Facts" by pasting in links to other sites and vendor's PR/sales centric benchmarks. That's it, that's all you contribute. You add nothing of intellect or value.
From another ex-Sunner , I echo Joerg's sentiments, your blithering is embarrassing to the rest of us who actually were proud Sun employees.
Not /etc/hostname.* files!! (check the end of feature notices link)
So I take it they have moved to a binary DB of some kind, a la AIX's ODM, this is one reason I love Solaris, it keeps to the UNIX fundamentals, flat files for ALL config which you can vi.....it's the simple elegance of it.
Seriously though, I'm surprised by the lack of older hardware support, plenty of shops out there still running IV+, V490's and the like, we still have a good few knocking around....chewing up power and shitting out heat.....
Solaris 11 will live and die on the T4's, regardless of how good the OS is, so we will have to wait and see what the T4's can do first...
Wouldn't it be funny....
If a collective of anonymous people decided to actually do something useful, and divert their attention away from Sony and onto a corrupt, theiving, worthless and feckless excuse for journalists.
We need a batsign thing but with a big V for Vendetta sign on it instead to shine into the night sky......
Its crap - on iOS anyway
Although the routing algorithm's and stuff will be the same, so I expect it will be crap on android to. It picks the most ridiculous route's, routes I know that tomtom has no issue with getting spot on first time with no tweaking to the route/avoiding roads etc.
Co-Pilot and infact most sat navs are fine in provincial towns, but put them to the test in London, and they nearly always fall flat on their ass, with lots of tweaking required, only Tom Tom does well in London.
Another thing is the refresh rate is terribly slow (Iphone 4) so when going round a roundabout it is possible to miss your exit due to the bleedin thing moving too slow.
Waste of 20 quid in my opinion, If you want a cheap option go for Igo, I ran that for a little while and that was perfectly fine, way better than copilot anyway. I'll put up with Co-pilot until my phone upgrade, then I'll go for Tom Tom, it's easily worth paying double the cost of Co Pilot for in London anyway, if you live outside of London then Igo will do the job nicely.
Thats what TPM says in the third paragraph.
Although I am struggling to find any material to back up that 32 socket claim..
Yes I know you can run Solaris on x86, it makes sense for Oracle applications only, but you have to remember that it only has a fraction of the application catalogue that RHEL does (or Solaris SPARC for that matter), so for everything else Red Hat is the wiser choice...
On x86, RHEL is the one to beat.
Yeah, but it's easily good "enough" for any and all workloads at much cheaper cost and thats the whole point.....
320 cores in a single image is more than enough scalability to make it very very difficult for me justify a large Solaris/AIX box for any new projects.
Hang on a min, 32 sockets!
The old Nehalems went to 8 sockets without glue, so you are telling me these new E7's go to 32 sockets in a glueless config! 'Kinell, I am impressed, but if the architecture is essentially much of the same then what has changed to enable scalability to 32 sockets over the previous 8?
I note that TPM did state "In theory" so are there any vendors such as HP/Dell etc actually planning a 32 socket box? I'm thinking 320 core's in a single Red Hat image......
I'm knocked for 6, the one thing Intel was missing was that kind of scalability, and now it bloody has it, if 32 socket box's appear, I can no longer justify spending on Large M-Series and P-Series.
Times they are a changin'
These "SysAdmin" blogs....
All these blogs are about what appears to be small windows based environments, how about a blog for real sysadmins, those of us that work with the big iron *nix kit that does the heavy lifting that those glorified PC's are not capable of.....
I'm in a bad mood, so flame bait.
No Pity for you....
Skill up in other OS's then, a Unix SA who only knows one flavour is vulnerable, go learn Solaris/AIX/Red Hat. If you are any good it won't take you long..
Yep - Neoview is a funny story
They abandon neoview are years of graft to port it to Itanium so they can get together with Oracle to do exadata V1, Oracle buys Sun and ditches the HP kit for the Sun kit for Exadata V2, leaving HP to then flee to the arms of Mickeyshaft for their data warehousing appliance, Frontline or something.
HP has gotten well and truely fecked, its the slag of the IT world, going from the arms of one software vendor to another, and now its got crabs...it's what happens when all you do is push tin..
Yes you are missing something...
When it comes to the Oracle Database:
1 - The CPU does not matter
2 - The OS does not matter
It is easy to move an Oracle DB from one platform to another, we have moved DB's from AIX -> Red Hat and even windows -> Solaris. Yes you need downtime but most importantly NO changes need to be made to the application code/SQL etc.
It's that Oracle DB which basically dictates the entire Unix market, always has done, businesses are tied to that DB, not the hardware/OS stack. In a word, if HP lose's this (they don't even have a case as far as I can see) then Itanium is basically fecked...Hence you have HP in a panic trying to save their Unix business from the clutches of a slightly crazy, but very capable and successful businessman, Larry.
Come on Matt....
You know full well this is not just Larry's "ego", their legal team would have gone through that contract with a fine tooth comb before they made a huge statement such as they did. What do you think that Oracle are a bunch of amateurs when it come's to the business of law suits? Their legal team is probably one of the slickest around, let's face it they have more than enough experience in this area..
This is all very much a case of he said she said, if Oracle are contractually obliged then fair enough they need to pay up, but I very much doubt this is the case.....
Mark Hurd knows exactly what they (HP/Intel) are going to do, people appear to forget that, hence HP kicking up a fuss and trying to sue Mark when he went off to Oracle for violating a confidentiality clause. That didn't work out too well for them did it.....
No White Flag here...
But I will acknowledge that LDOMS's are largely useless for us as far as virtualization goes, we have a few messaging app's and web servers which could use it, but it's hardly worth the effort when the numbers we run are so low.
We use zones extensively to virtualize our Oracle DB's on the M-Series servers, and it works extremely well, as 90% of our Sun servers run Oracle, we don't really need anything else..
I will take another look at LDOM's once the T4 come's out.
Wow, thats the best you can come up with "you should calm down or you will get a heart attack", why don't you actually think about the points I have made and make an intelligent reponse to those. There are no "facts" or "benchmarks" to quote when it comes to making a response to my post so you may struggle I expect...
Same old...Same old.
Here you go again with the same old rubbish, that article you quote is from 2003! It was a very different market 8 years ago, one in which IBM was playing second fiddle to Sun even after the dotcom crash, it is now leading the UNIX market, IBM are not about to kill AIX anytime soon.
You believe too much of what you read on the internet, including those useless benchmarks you keep quoting which as any seasoned SA will tell you mean absolutely diddly squat in the real world. They are PR/advertising, and nothing more than that!
How dare you tell a fellow UNIX professional not to worry about having work, how patronising!! We all have our preferred OS, being Ex Sun mine is obviously Solaris and always will be. But times change and you need to accept other vendors do some things better. In IBM's case, their hardware is currently far superior to Oracle/Sun's, although as an OS AIX sucks for various reasons (Get rid of the ODM to start with as it's a frickin pain when it goes wrong) Solaris is a far more elegant "proper" UNIX, imho.
Here's hoping Oracle crank it up a notch with the T4's so Solaris/SPARC stick around for some time to come.
Here's also hoping Kebabert starts to appreciate the good things other vendors can do, it's not all about SPARC/Solaris these days, as much as I wish it was.
You expect anything less.....
This is always the problem with HTC/Motorola/Samsung and their like, there is no incentive for them to offer any upgrade whatsoever with the android business model as it is. Of course it won't stop the techies from rooting/rom'ing etc but 99% of people won't do that, and HTC has screwed those people over.
Say what you like about Apple, but 3GS owners will have a 3 year support life with IOS5 being supported, that's value for money! These commodity phone vendors (lets face it thats all they are) could learn a thing or two.
Give it up already....
The days of the cheapo retailer on the high street/retail park for electronics are well and truly gone, don't the Best Buy management see this??? Idiots...
They simply cannot compete on price with online retailers, they need something else to differentiate themselves and give punters a reason to shop with them, they dont have one....
Now look at Richer Sounds, who know their stuff and are reasonably priced and the choice of the better informed. Look at John Lewis who are dear but have excellent customer service and an excellent warranty. These retailers will stick around, Best Buy may as well give it up.
So your customer, "big bank" just ported all their code to DB2 with a "flick of the hand" eh? Really that easy is it? Really save 90% do they! I call utter bollocks on your post mate.
I'd love to know how "big bank" does this, because no one else can.....not with a flick of the hand (?!) anyway.
Migrating to a different DB is a LOT of work, it's affects everything, every app you have needs to be re-written to some extent and then extensively tested. It's one of the last things any company ever wants to have to do, Oracle knows this and is abusing it's monopoly DB postition to some extent, but why not, it's business, nothing wrong with it.
I take it you are no Sys Admin or DBA then?
How very desperate...
Sour grapes? I think so....
Just goes to show, even if you are the worlds premier tin pusher, without a decent (or any!) enterprise software offering you are vulnerable to exactly what Oracle is doing. Now they are trying to litigate their way out of the hole they are in. Said it before, I'll say it again, the only way HP can get themselves out of this hole and to compete as a stack provider against Oracle and IBM is to buy SAP/Sybase, they will need to find $50 billion to do that however....which I don't think they have right about now!
The fact they have taken this long means they must have had their law bods at it looking for any/every angle to litigate with since the original announcement. If their case had any merit at all, they would have come out with their arsenal of expensive lawyers a lot sooner than this.
No legal action was taken when M$ and Red Hat did the same, because they know nearly all customers run HP-UX on itanium anyway, the vast majority of their HP-UX customers run Oracle, so now they litigate, you can't have it both ways, idiots.
Yet more Fanboism...
Kebabert - Give it a rest mate. You are meant to be a IT professional are you not...we are not in a one size fits all industry, some kit is better at some stuff than other kit, you obviously do not realise this. You need to.
You are no different to Matt B and his fanatical HP obsession.
Anyway, back to the subject of the article, yes we have bought a whole lot of M9000 upgrades to the VII+ and a host of M5000's for other projects, we are spending so I assume others are to...
How on earth can they get accurate linux figures? Our Red Hat deployment is going through the roof as is everyone's, they are just estimates at best.
First to market wins.....
Microsoft and HP do not seem to realise this. They should cut their losses and realise that they were simply outplayed by Apple and Google, they were too late. Anyway, HP's main source of income is the black stuff, they are wasting their time and their share holders money.
So someone has gone and created a GUI to make a HPC config easy to use for new to *nix users? Are they fooking serious....
If you need a GUI, go manage a windoze box, leave the proper computing to properly qualified techies please.
Your App Is Rubbish Anyway....
It's a completely useless app:
1 - Need an active data connection, cannot read offline. The BBC news app does a good job of downloading all text on app startup, so I can read all stories on the tube (minus pics, not that that matters), why can't the reg app do the same or similar?
2 - As with others, no comments, it's what makes the reg the reg...
I deleted it within 2 mins when I realised it's useless without active data, might as well just use a browser and go to the full site! Get comments that way to.
If and when you sort #1 I will reinstall it on my iphone.
You are all missing the point here....
There is no IT angle, but there is an engineering angle, and we geeks love good engineering. Fact is this is the most radical departure in the way a petrol engine is built in decades, they really havn't changed all that much since the birth of the combustion engine.
I applaud FIAT for the multiair, it's a potent little engine.
Mine's the Alfa Giulietta 1.4 170hp :)
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