"Oh yes, since then the "evangelism" has grown beyond a few "keen users" to entire divisions. Google it."
And what they're willing to pay! My lordy; but it were tempting.
5816 posts • joined 31 May 2010
"Oh yes, since then the "evangelism" has grown beyond a few "keen users" to entire divisions. Google it."
And what they're willing to pay! My lordy; but it were tempting.
"I think it's fair to say (given products on different platforms and the ongoing open-sourcing of many of their developer tools and other stuff) that Microsoft are a very different company in 2014"
I don't think it's fair to say that at all. Their corporate culture really hasn't changed much at all since then, with the exception of a minor focus on security...but they all just got fired. Now security is the responsibility of the same people under pressure to deliver to deadline. Which is going backwards into the 90s, thanks.
Nadella's good people, and I honestly believe he's trying to change things for the better, but he just doesn't have the cloud. He's fighting vicious piranhas in the board room and his own executives - none of which are his lieutenants, you'll remember - who are all devoted to protect their empires at all costs.
Microsoft is still very much Ballmer's baby, with Bill's hands deep in the pie, as it was throughout Ballmer's reign. It will be years yet - if it's even possible - before that changes. And Windows 8.2 (now 10) is not something that bears Nadella's personal mark.
Ad for the bundling of IE, I never had a problem with including it in the OS. I did have a problem with building other OS components such that they depended on it. (Windows Update, etc.) It's still a problem. In fact, I have 9 separate bug reports in on Windows 10 right now about elements of the OS that seem to call IE, despite my desire to banish the thing from my sight, and it not being the default browser.
For example: that integrated search shit I can't turn off? Why is it calling IE, when Firefox is my default browser? More to the point, why is it calling Metro IE? There's something broken there.
Funny, isn't it, how those problems from so long ago are still problems. Especially is Microsoft were the "good guy" company you and others so often make them out to be.
They are the product of their history. Good and bad. And change in that company is very, very slow.
I said cloud features <i.of the operating system</i>. Not stuff you voluntarily download after the fact.
Understand me fully here: I have zero problems with targeted advertising, with unified search, with cloud storage or any of this. None. What I have a problem with - a very large, very fundamental problem with - is the integration of these items directly into the operating system.
The OS should be as minimalistic, safe, secure and private as possible. By all means, give me an option post install to download and enable a whole host of Microsoft products and services. Pull up the Windows Store - the one element of all of this I have zero problem with being integrated into the OS, by the way - and give me a face full of Microsoft's products services and applications.
I even think the EU can jump in a lake, and Microsoft should have no reason to display Google's stuff or Apple's stuff. It their damned OS and their damned store.
But don't build it into the OS. If I want cloudy stuff I'll install it. I don't want it turning on without my knowing, or some GPO enabling it, or the feedback mechanism in the OS requiring me to feed them my Microsoft ID.
And that goes for everyone else, too. Google can eat a sack of genitalia for the deep integration of cloudy crap into Android and Chrome. Apple with iOS isn't too bad, and OSX is even better. Canonical's Ubuntu Amazon Spyfest can go straight to the hot place.
There's plenty of "damned good operating system" in Windows 10. But the cloud integration is emphatically not okay. And it would be just as not okay if it were some other company building their shit into the OS too.
If I want your cloud crap, I'll make a conscious choice to install it and punch in my credentials. Under no circumstances should giving up one's privacy be so deeply embedded into any operating system that it's just "the flick of a switch" (or a power shell command, or a GPO) away.
If you want to hate me as a person for believing the above, espousing the above, or demanding the above from vendors, you go right ahead. But I've no time for vendors who view privacy as an annoyance or a second class consideration, and I've less time for fanboys who give those companies a free ride when they do.
It doesn't matter if they "display a warning" or not. Your claim was that they didn't enable it by default. They do, and you're full of shit.
As for your "disable in two places" tripe, it's funny how even if you disable that stuff - when the OS lets you disable it, that is - the damned thing still calls home. There are more knobs than just those, because Microsoft reports more than just your searches. (Not that disabling those seems to stop it from communicating when you search, but I digress.)
No tinfoil hat is required. Microsoft flat out doesn't give a rat's ass about privacy. And they won't, either, unless we make them.
@SolidSquid it's odd. Because it's like half the controls are missing from PC Settings that I'd expect to be there, and those that are there are greyed out. Sort of what I'd expect if some sort of group policy were applied, but I can't find anything in the registry that would administratively disable it.
What's more, there seems to an awful lot of traffic going to MS. Enough that if I was on 4G I'd be actually angry. And there doesn't seem to be a control at all do disable unified search. Hit search in the start menu and it takes you to bing, despite my explicitly disabling that during install.
Bugs I'll accept...but these aren't new features. Windows 10 isn't a new operating system. There's nothing here but a cosmetic layer over 8.1, and a mostly unfinished one at that. There's no reason for this stuff to be broken if it was present and working in 8.1. It's not like those areas of the UI were reworked. It's all the same stuff there.
It's just bizarre.
@Kristian Walsh: part of testing the software is seeing what data it's collecting on you, how you have the ability to turn that off and how much of what gets turned on when you tweak the various knobs.
I have absolutely no problem with Microsoft collecting info on my beta copy. I signed up, I know how that works. I even logged in with my Microsoft account in order to leave feedback.
But when I go explicitly hunting to turn it all off in a separate, created for the purpose of testing that functionality, VM I should be able to do it. Ensuring privacy controls work is a critical part of ensuring that the operating system is ready for prime time. And, to me, it's far more important than making sure the graphics subsystem works, or that the Start Menu doesn't irritate me too much.
I'm beta testing the product and there are notable bugs in how it handles privacy. I'm willing to bet Microsoft won't address them unless lawsuits are involved. Quite simply because that's what it always seems to take with them to get privacy taken seriously.
So you'll have to excuse me if I make my fuss now, in beta, before the product goes out. That way at least there's a paper trail that says "no, actually, this was raised with you repeatedly."
All part of the process of holding their feet to the fire. (Well, bitching on El Reg's forums is an irrelevant part of that compared to sending formal feedback through the various other channels available, but damn it, it makes me feel better.)
"Microsoft never enable stuff like this by default in final release software "
Bullshit. Install Windows 8 and just skip the customization at install. It's all on and streaming your life to them, 24/7. Despite your love of that company, they are emphatically not honourable. They just put hundreds of millions of dollars into deflecting the discussion about privacy - and the selfsame data collection techniques and tactics used by Microsoft - onto their competition.
“Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them. Thus, you control mindshare!” From one of Microsoft's own documents: http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdf
Sorry, but I believe what my packet sniffer says, not marketing. And I'm seeing rather more traffic out of my 8.1 VM than I authorized too. And I just did a default install. Hmm. Even after defanging the thing as extensively as I know how, I've obviously missed something, because it's calling the mothership from time to time.
But it's all good, hmm? Because it's Microsoft?
Sorry, but no beans. On the whole, I mostly like Windows 10. (Despite the now 48 feedback items I've logged about various bugs and nit picks about the UI.) Or, at least, I only hate it about as much as I hate Windows 7, once all the customization is done.
But the privacy thing...that's a no go. There's a lot more going on here than in Windows 7, and there are no obvious ways to kill it.
Google, for all their sins, give you one single location to see everything they collect on you and to delete it, opt out or quit the service. It's time Microsoft did this. And at the end of the day, I don't care whether or not you agree. My privacy isn't for sale, and it certainly won't be a coin paid in the name of your brand tribalism.
I am using Windows 10 right now. And despite there being an option to disable this stuff during setup, it is both re-enabled and greyed out in windows proper. Half the privacy controls are missing and I am seeing quite a lot of traffic streaming to Microsoft-held servers that I explicitly didn't authorize.
So fuck your simplistic world view, fanboy. I'll stop complaining when they act with honour.
Also, my desktop is my fortress. I don't want to be giving my account information, search results, backup of my profile and $deity knows what else to a bunch of Americans. I want my privacy, damn it. The desktop does not need to be "cloud enabled".
Holy shit. That's one hell of a flaw.
@AC based on the description, it doesn't seem to do anything particularly interesting. I can't see any functionality that isn't already part of my Note 2, and I'm not worried about just taking my Note 2 out of my pocket and using it when I need to. I guess it is targeted at a different market than the one I occupy. Oh well, that's okay, there are 7 billion people on the planet. Not everything has to appeal to me.
A concise and well thought out summary! Many thanks, sir.
Since this thread will soon be colonized by raging JH hating Apple fanboys, can I please divert the attention away from ad homenims for a few comments? I have a legitimate question for the faithful that I just don't really have time to research at the moment:
...what does the iWatch actually do? I have to confess to not having actually looked into the new generation of smartwatches, and I'm wondering what we're supposed to do with one. Also: how is it different from, for example, a Galaxy Gear or a Pebble?
What's cool about it? Why should I consider getting one? If anyone knows the answers, please let me know! Thanks in advance...
Good on 'em. Huawei make some quality stuff. And since both the options on the market are companies from governments that want an abrupt end to world privacy, I'm far more happy to buy my gear from the company working under the government that has the least likelihood to do me harm.
I don't have to ever have anything to do with China other than buying their stuff. But the US I have to deal with all the time, both as a journalist and because some of my competitors are located there. Best then not to use equipment into which they have back doors.
Bring on the cheap Huawei gear, let's see the backside of this proprietary crap and actually get moving with the software defined networking revolution. More bang for the same buck, and less direct effect if they spy on me. Win/win!
Eric Holder does not get a vote.
"blah blah blah, I listen to the output of the radio telescopes overlaid with downshifted BDSM sessions"
Now, the Boston Pops Orchestra, there's music. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b7bnWEP1vw as an example.)
I do, in fact, own an iPad Mini Retina. I even used it on the plane during last week's trip to Austin for Spiceworld to watch some Primeval New World, if you would believe it.
Like it or not, iOS is a major operating system and I am called upon to review iOS-based applications more and more. Thus I need to have one. I even - $deity help me - am beginning to appreciate certain aspects of it. It's a hell of a better design, physically, than any Android or Windows tablet I've ever used.
Even is the OS is pants.
The tiles take all of 5 seconds to remove from the start menu.
FINALLY! Someone gets it! Jesus fuck, I've been waiting all day for that. (I was sad when the subed didn't get, nor did ALL OF TWITTER.)
My faith in humanity is restored.
Actually, I buy that, from a marketing standpoint.
You get to provide business to American corporations.
All the more incentive to buy Chinese.
The public cloud doesn't eliminate disruption. It only eliminates your ability to deal with it in a safe, reliable and cost-effective manner. I stead you get "hope and prayer".
I've no truck with the "army of yes men" comment. Just the idea that all press become "yes men" when exposed to junkets. We do not.
IBM have over 20,000 OSX machines deployed in active service amongst their workforce. They know OSX management better than anyone excepting Google.
so if MS got some smart people to create a tool (or plug-in) that lets you manage OS X machines, and iOS, that would be $$$ in the bank.
Hi, the latest System Center will do this. Cheers.
but given it's press and Microsoft are footing the bill, everyone will love it regardless
Ahem. May I kindly suggest you go to the hot place for that one. Some of us are perfectly capable of going on vendor-bought junkets and giving them not one iota of slack compared to the scathing examinations we'd give them if we had to buy the stuff ourselves.
Which is why they don't invite me to these things...but we're not all so low on self esteem that a plane ticket and some bad conference food is enough to buy our loyalty, thank you very much.
If you had to choose between 2 hours of flight or 8 hours in a car you'd realise that 2 hours of being glared at by fellow passengers is a *lot* easier to bear..
Why should I give a fuck about your comfort when you clearly place no value on mine, or an entire airplane's worth of people? Entitled much?
Children aren't special, they aren't wonderful and they aren't carte blanche to act luck a fuckbag. I, at least, don't scream at the parents and tell them to shape up or ship out. I do my best to ignore them, save for the odd glances to let them know that I am unimpressed and that as far as I am concerned, they have breached the boundaries of social acceptability.
So I do my part to restrain my hatred of the squealing nauseants. But fuck you in the face with a bronzed goat if you think for one second I should like having their irritating smell-larva damaging my calm.
Obviously people take kids on planes because they enjoy paying thousands of dollars to be stuck in a large pop can with their kids screaming for a few hours and smarmy entitled gits like you glaring at them all along, not because they have any other valid reason to be travelling.
Quite obviously. Otherwise, why would they do it? That seems to be your reasoning for projecting my actions, so I turn it around on your precious "parents".
You know there's this thing called first or business class,
Funny, there isn't such a beast on many regional hoppers in North America. The best you get is "Economy Plus".
"doubt there are many children in those seats, so please do go ahead and pay double, well more like quadruple, and sit there,"
Oddly enough, I happened to be on one of the few regional hoppers with first class, and it was populated by said wailing and failing larva.
or perhaps you would prefer to charter a private flight for people with children..oh you won't,
No, when I charter a private flight it is so that I can take it my own self to be rid of the children, thanks.
well then, might I kindly suggest you F off then, they have as much right to fly as you do.
Where did I say they didn't have the right to fly? Nowhere. I just said they were fucking annoying and I don't understand A) why anyone would choose to reproduce and B) why they would take their smelly, screaming, irritating-as-fuck larva onto planes.
As for procreating, yes you do have a valid point there, better ask your parents about why they brought such a pompous self important windbag of a 'larva' into the world, shame that.
I can only conclude they were mad. Much like yours, although given you sense of grandiose entitlement and self importance I would also add "soda-mascochistic" to the list.
Your baby is ugly. Deal with it.
Why can't I just hate "people" and only likes ones that prove to be markedly less irritating than the others?
"a large batch of kids in line after a long flight"
Know what I hate? Children on planes. I would easily pay double if only it meant that I was guaranteed a 2 foot thick soundproofed wall between me and any screeching larva. 5 hours from Houston to Edmonton with that howling larva of doom made me want to drive an ice pick into my own brain.
I still have flashbacks. Why the hell do people procreate, anyways? $deity what a pain in the ASCII...
I see no reason whatsoever not to be anti-American, nor are you providing me any reasons whatsoever.
As for "Toronto being a known hotbed of radical Islamic terrorists": bullshit. But there were plenty of Americans that left to fight for Allah. Guess they didn't appreciate your amazing country quite so much as you think the world should, hmm?
There are a bunch of really bad people in this world - ISIS amongst them - but America sure as hell aren't the good guys either.
"Let the US bashing posts come, if not for the US, Europeans could be buying head scarfs and veils for their wives and daughters already when ISIS takes over, since Europe is ruled by lamers, even too naive to realize they were spied upon. It is hard to understand that Germany did not offer Snowdon asylum after he revealed Merkel was overheard."
The US lost the war in Iraq. And it was the UK, Canada, France and Germany that have done the bulk of the actual work in Afganistan. The US just ran around and made life difficult for the rest of the coalition.
You must be new here. That's Microsoft's paid AC shill. Don't be surprised or shocked that he twists the truth, stretches it beyond recognition and outright lies in order to defend Mother Microsoft. I've met slime molds with more honour.
Defaults don't matter when you can't use the fucking thing unless you agree to hand over your data. Such as Hotmail. Let's have a conversation about a French journalist, shall we...?
As for it sending off the contents of my local computer, of yes it fucking does. With every search information about what's on your local computer leaks to Bing.
Microsoft robs you of your privacy at every turn, but likes to play innocent. They aren't.
Except the Windows brand name is worth fuck all after repeated stabbing of it in the face with a rusty tractor.
Maybe they should call it Microsoft Steals Your Privacy And Streams It To Bing?
"Robbing you of your privacy first..."
That's Google motto, MS would infringe Google copyright on data stealing....
Since when has that stopped Microsoft? Besides, they rob you of your privacy every bit as much as Google. More, in fact, because Windows now ensures that even your searches on your local computer are streamed to Bing, attached to your Microsoft ID so that they can track you and the contents of the files on your local computer.
Google rob you of your privacy, but at least they're somewhat up front about it. Microsoft lie like a fucking rug about it, put millions into bashing Google about it, then do it twice as hard.
Unless the DCs are owned and operated by a company with zero American legal attack surface, this means nothing. What a waste of money on Oracle's part.
I am intruiged. Must check them out.
"Can I be a pedant for just a moment?"
Nobody likes a pedant.
"And avoid tight jeans so I can carry a phablet? Get lost."
No, avoid skinny jeans because hipsters are a plague that should be fired out of a cannon, into the sun.
Um....I don't think Hadrosaurs had feathers? Fleshy "combs", yes...and possibly even juvenile down. But feathers? I'd love to see a link to hard evidence of this in Hadrosaurs.
Yacht. Ellison has a fascination with them.
Except Microsoft actually were abusing a monopoly...and continue to do so. Windows 8 was nothing more than a transparent attempt to leverage a desktop monopoly to create one in the smartphone space...to the detriment of everyone.
I have to see any evidence that Google are abusing their monopoly. For the record, keeping the really low-quality shite results from the sorts of spammy link farms that are bitching about this with Microsoft's money behind them out of my searches is exactly why I use Google. Because it keeps the trash out of sight.
That's not an abuse of monopoly; that's providing a quality service. And I'd gladly pay for that quality, when I look at what the alternatives are.
"So Google aren't capable of making "I'm Feeling Lucky" as good as Google once made it?"
That's what the man said, and he's right.
The internet is a bigger place, and getting IFL right becomes an infinitely Hard problem as the cruft accumulates. Besides, your IFL "correct" is not mine. We're different. So yeah, that feature will get more and more useless, then be removed.
Q_Q I are French and Dutch, with a strong ancestry from Quebec and France...
My understanding is that the typical industry practice of reflow soldering basically can't work here. That means you either need an expensive (and apparently not very accurate) robot, or humans. I am sure some companies automated. Others apparently did choose the human route, as it was the only component that couldn't be reflow soldered. Never ask how the sausage is made. You will never like the answer.
Red Hat has the ability, but probably not the resources. HP has the resources, but suffers from "fucking retarded" syndrome, and hence doesn't have the ability.
Resources can be acquired. You can't cure stupid.
"The fact I can stab you with a screwdriver or smash your head with a hammer doesn't make those things 'bad'."
No, but we sure as shit shouldn't give you tax breaks for doing so. We should hunt you down and put one in your head and two in your chest.
Religion tells you why, then murders you by torture, burning alive, beheading and being raped to death if you disagree or even show the vaguest hint of disrespecting the almighty $religious_leader currently trying to bamboozle the flock.
There's plenty of empirical evidence to that effect. There is no god. Cope.