761 posts • joined 25 May 2010
Mighty quiet ....
Not heard anybody suggesting recently how BitCoin is a FIAT currency, etc etc. I'm guessing this is the death throes of the BitCoin bubble
So the UK government have blocked YouTube? ... it did seem to be working the last time I looked.
Re: Dilbert is right on the case today.
Yes .... just about sums up bitcoin
Re: Too obvious.
Not to me .. I was just on the point of signing up for this when I saw the comments. The thinking being that -
a. I trust GCHQ and the NSA with my data a bit, actually a lot, more than Facebook, Google, Linkedin, and hotmail.
b. since they are going to store it anyway why not let me have access to a copy.
Re: Of course it's military... @some less ignorant posters above
The original flaw in my argument being that I know very little of how our "colonial cousins" government classify documents.... nice to see that it is much the same as the UK.
Re: Of course it's military... @Tromos
Apologies Tromos my FYI was more tongue in cheek. I didn't realise that there would be anybody on here who was sufficiently ignorant to not know that all official government documents are classified.
Government classification 101 link below -
Re: This is why I don't have a sunroof in my car!
Ooops forgetting where I am, I up voted that one on the basis it was sarcasm . Please correct to a down vote if you feel you got an undeserved up vote.......
Re: Of course it's military...
Yes nothing convinces the sheeple (sorry Matt B for pinching your stuff) batshit paranoid commentator on the register even an article that clearly states it isn't military.
FYI. most government documents both military and civil have a classification
Re: ::shakes head:: @Ben & Mark
@Ben : No I observed that you couldn't produce an argument when another poster suggested that a bank might be a safer place for your life savings,,, It seems you still can't?
@Mark : The "Pump and Dump Strawman" ... nuff said I think :).
Re: ::shakes head:: @James
Yes ... as a garage mechanic said on one occasion "You would be daft to own a DAF (*1), and FIAT stands for First In All Trouble''. The DAF bit isn't totally relevant but I do feel for the sake of journalistic integrity I should give the full quote.
(*1) Cars produced by the DAF truck company which because of the Variomatic gear box had the useful (?) feature of going as fast in reverse as forward. Eventually evolved into the Volvo 343 ... chancing my arm a bit Volvo, being well Volvo, would have a put a limiter on the reverse velocity.
Re: ::shakes head:: @Ben
Ah yes .. the same Ben who responded to my comment on the 'silence of the bitcoin evangelists' with a quip about banks getting robbed and or losing money.
That Ben who didn't respond when it was pointed out that people depositing money in the corrupt old banks stood a good chance of getting the money back. Not sure where you live Ben so this may not apply, but even in country without government backed depositor grantees I think the local bank might be safer than either Mt. Gox, or indeed a virtual bitcoin wallet.
Re: ::shakes head:: @Jake
Yes ... I have to agree Jake. I have followed the bitcoin stories partly as this may be a way to make a pile of money to achieve a better lifestyle (*1), and mainly out of morbid curiosity.
From a purely theoretical viewpoint be it either 'Tulip Mania', 'South Sea Bubble', a FIAT currency for criminals or just a Ponzi get rich quick scheme for the early adopters, the writing does seem to be on the walls for bitcoin.
(*1) ... the lifestyle that Jake has alluded to in some of his posts lol
Nice post ... tongue in cheek but summarizes my opinions on these issues.
I am sort of hoping that the register introduces another badge for those of us with significantly more 'down thumbs' than 'up' .... the bronze is nice in that I don't encounter too much censorship. Kind of hoping for a black skull and crossbones next to the bronze. Other than that I post my opinion and damn the likes/dislikes.
Re: @Brewsters ..... Redhead
I have a theory on that one ... "Woman are far too sensible to aspire to a career in IT"
@Brewsters ..... Redhead
Oooooooo f**k yes mmmmmmm. I did a long time ago watch a government information film 'It could be you' and no before anybody asks not at any of the aforementioned agencies.
All I can say is "it never has been .. in-spite of bloody well wishing it was". FYI the Cold War wasn't all bad.
Minor correction to the apology to Gruniad readers ... that should I suspect read 'all sysadmins are male heterosexual adolescent virgins'. If it was all genders of 'heterosexual adolescent virgins' the world, indeed the IT world, would be a much happier place.
Re: Indeed @goldcd
I can actually imagine NSA (or GCHQ) agents reading that one shaking their heads and saying 'if only'...... Unlimited budget - try reading something of the economic figures in the last year or two.
Whilst a revelation to you, or maybe not I guess you do say 'Simple and Logical' ... this is what the NSA do. There is no implication in the article that this is anything other than targeted surveillance why do you imply that the 'NSA agents' are doing anything criminal?
Re: This would be funny except ...
Bugger I had thought make sure I spell that urban and not urbane when I typed the comment. Ripley's believe it or not ... but is true.
Re: This would be funny except ...
A further thought ... I do know the location of either an urbane composter or indeed a waste animal fat rendering plant the smell from both would doubtless be marginally improved by your organic waste suggestions.
Travel to either would have a far more acceptable carbon footprint to "your companies green policies" than the pine forests of the Scottish highlands.
Re: This would be funny except ...
Do remember that, apart from one return, "train tickets" need only be one way. Every little helps ....
This would be funny except ...
I worked all to close to an office of a well known government organisation who stuck an anaerobic composter in the basement car park of their city centre office.
Nothing quite beats the smell of fermenting banana skin, and putrefying rancid sandwich after your morning Starbucks (then again waste animal fat rendering plants do but that is a different office and another story).
Booking tickets for St. Patricks day in Arlington VA.
Re: Don't Forget Boss Hogg
You got any proof of that boy? More seriously commentators keep coming up with these statements and discounting the occasional abuse I just don't see any real evidence this is happening.
Re: I disagree. Which means I agree. @ThomH
Where is it pretty clear as stated in the article that the NSA routinely abuse their powers?
The main mention of anything more than metadata collection is 12 instances over 10 years of "LOVEINT - spying on people they fancy", and that in a linked article anyway.
@John : yes the "skiddies" aren't what they used to be.
@MtGox : humorous but cruel ... and Mr T says 'Pity the fool'
@Elon Musk : indeed vested interest and politics who will win? My bet would go with the vested interest.
@Snowdon : milking the limelight for all it is worth, apart from revealing 'ways and means' not much in the way of revelation. The bit I don't understand is why folks feel the Internet is any different from the 'real world'?
@Marc : Oooo there are times I so wish my understanding was better. More importantly when is this going to have a practical application like say a machine to whip back a day or two and fill in the lottery (or lotteries).
Words fail me really. Just carry on.....
Re: John Smith IQ of 0.19 Snowden: You can't trust SPOOKS with your DATA
MMmm John I didn't know you cared. So yes took that opportunity to give you a richly deserved down vote ..... have a nice day and enjoy :).
Re: Stop who? @Trevor Potter
Unlike your antiquated and simplistic advice I don't believe in simply "me for me." Upping stakes and going elsewhere because I don't like the choices made by governments elected by a minority of individuals would be cowardice.
Bravery is found in driving change. In putting one's time, effort and resources towards achieving the desired outcome. I find no valour in meekly accepting what is. I see no honour in capitulating. Right and wrong are not dictated by those in power; especially when those in power are emphatically not elected by a majority. (There's a proportional representation discussion to be had here.)
Hmmm it is nice to see you accusing somebody else of cowardice again or at least implying it. That said this really doesn't add to the discussion and really just annoys those of us responding to your posts.
I certainly don't see any bravery in allowing foreigners (Americans, Brits) to dictate to my nation - and thus to me - what will be, what is right or what to believe. Instead, I choose to push for change. To stand up for what I believe and to encourage my nation to stand up to those others who would have us compromise our values.
Yet your quite happy to let China etc spy and gain advantage?
I am defending my home using the only means I have available to me. I will not run and hide. I find it incomprehensible that anyone could advocate such under the guise of bravery."
You really believe this, I mean really? I have seen stuff where you argued similar points for anonymous I guess you really do consider yourself brave and the rest of us cowards. Oh well.
Re: Stop who?
People, like you, who believe that the illusion of security is an acceptable trade for liberty are those against whom I the struggle must be directed. Your misguided beliefs must be changed so that the people can stand united against those who would seek to rule us.
So how is that one working out? Speaking as one to whom you have already directed a stream of abuse .... evil, cowardly etc etc. I find your extensive rhetoric and arguments unconvincing.
Re: I know the Reg hates Google but @Howverydare
Thumbs up from me How! Mind I suspect you may have touched a nerve and am now expecting a conflated and massive polemic on the evils of anybody Trevor doesn't agree with ...... regardless of the reality of the situation.
Re: Whereas if it was a bank doing these transactions @Mark
Straw men are usually quiet.
Having conceded that you are the 'Straw Man' ..... there is not much point discussing this further.
I originally considered your posts to be essentially a 'pump and dump' effort from somebody sitting on a whole stack of bitcoin trying to shift them before the bubble finally bursts .
Re: Whereas if it was a bank doing these transactions @Ben
Banks are subject to both regulations (one being capital adequacy), and in quite a lot of Nation States a depositor guarantee. Thus should the bank either get it wrong, or be subject to criminal activity, there is a good chance that losses will be restored.
Also when "robbed" what you find is a lot of places have organisations called Police. The job of these people is to go and find the people who "robbed" the bank and get the money back. It would seem questionable both if this is the job of these Police organisations, or indeed given the anonymous nature of bitcoin if this is even possible.
A question for you Ben, are you either just naive, or sitting on a whole stack of bitcoin trying to shift them before the bubble finally bursts?
Re: Whereas if it was a bank doing these transactions
And yet the bitcoin evangelista have gone strangely quiet.......
The problem with Bitcoin @justin - it has no sponsor
I agree the techo babble does not make bitcoin a currency. But it is worse bitcoin does not have any strong sponsor backing up it's value.
As illustration of the risks of Bitcoin as opposed to the more established FIAT consider the following hypothetical situation.
Take for example a small country previous part of a union with another larger country declares independence and starts to print exact copies (forgeries) of one of the popular FIAT currencies. How would the state whose currency is being ‘forged’ react?
I am guessing that after a certain amount of diplomatic ‘cease and desist’ the respective owners of these currencies will react as below:
GBP - SAS slips across the border destroys the printing plant and all stocks of currency
EUR (France) – the Foreign Legion invade the place, destroy the printing plant etc. Plus the DGSE sink any ships registered to the example country
USD – take off and nuke the place from orbit
And so on ….. oh yes and what does the bitcoin hegemony do?
Bitcoin – anonymous attack randomly selected web sites
Oh really ?
Re: ... Blood from a stone? @Sparticus Just over an hour ago
How could you say such a thing Sparticus? Yet another
hilarious but all too apposite comment cruel slur of bitcoin. You have to understand that bitcoin is or may possibly be a FIAT currency used only by either criminals or naïve idealists where the former want money laundering facilities and the latter are too stupid to think through the risks is a pure Cypto-currency untainted by the corruption and thievery of the existing banking system.
Exchanges such as MtGox are
probably run by the same sort of criminals, and naïve idiots …. In fact who in the holy name of deity thought they would get the money back? the very pinnacle of the bitcoin utopia. You would have to be totally mad very cynical to think that the these self-same bunch of criminals and losers who barely understand finance committed people involved with this ideal aren’t either laughing all the way to the bank or stunned by the shafting that they just took respectively trying to move heaven and earth to restore the losses of the investors.
Also remember that MtGox is
the first with every indication the rest will be following down the pan shortly but one of the exchanges and whilst the failure a humorous indicator of the bitcoin trend and is with any luck the death knell of this techno babble an unfortunate blip . The bitcoin systems is without doubt a house of cards waiting for a puff of wind robust and hopefully not scam too many more idiots will fulfil its noble ideals.
Since seeing this article I
haven’t stopped laughing have sold my, house, car, wife and two of my three children so strong Is my belief in this pure and noble cause. I should coco suckers … the great thing about currencies outside of either government control or for that matter other control is that nobody is responsible I intend to invest all of my considerable fortune yea right in restoring the bitcoin system to its rightful status.
So Sparticus final word on this one
top comment entirely worthy of an up vote if for that matter I cared one way or the other … actually I do think I should get some recognition for all my down votes perhaps in future you might chose knock it on the head son, I have lost a keyboard and should probably be working to post comments that are a little less ignorant of bitcoin really I mean really are there people so stupid as to believe this nonsense …. Ah well I guess the phrase is ‘One Born … ‘ ?
Dammit Sparticus next you will be suggesting that these fine upstanding members of the legal profession
are in fact the circling sharks who have smelled the blood from a suitable shoal of fools prepared to throw good money are just out for money from the self righteous idiots who bought into this nonsense tragically defrauded bitcoin investors.
You have to remember this is
tulip mania or the south sea bubble, a get rich quick ponzi scheme a legitimate crypto-currency. I frankly can't feel sorry for these chumps feel nothing but sympathy for all the deeply wronged investors and will struggle to contain my mirth ... particularly for those who have down voted my posts suggesting that this might happen my grief at these tragic events.
Finally all I can say is
as a future thought, to all you bozos, there is a lot of sense in the phrase "if it seems too good to be true ... it probably is" my thoughts go out to the those who have lost so much and their families .... I genuinely feel for you all. Just wiping a tear s of mirth from my eye s.
... Blood from a stone?
that it may have lost hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins "through the abuse of a bug in the Bitcoin system"
Whilst they may not have very many bitcoin left surely they can just mine some more?
Re: I do wonder @stizzleswick
Yes ... absolutely. What the Bitcoin banks need to do is either outsource or better still offshore all of their admin to India. All the proper banks have done this and have a great story to tell.
I'm sure there was a lovely story of RBS off-shoring and how well things were going ..... ah hang on. Then again ....
Re: And yet... @Tim
I agree. I do wonder if this isn't just a classic 'Dead Cat Bounce' pattern?
Yes .... sadly it won't work. As I understand the situation, whilst you can buy and sell BTC on Mt. Gox, having bought the the BTC you can't get them off the exchange.
Re: Not quite the same
Presumably it is fine for the North Koreans to arrest and harass people there, if they find them to be in possession of information contrary to NK law?
Perhaps if North Korea behaved in the same way as the UK in this instance the UN might not be comparing them to the Nazi regime.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that stopping David Miranda to recover 58,00 sensitive documents is the same as North Korea? In North Korea it would appear that you can be executed for watching South Korean movies? Was David Miranda executed? ..... No they let him go.
Re: Not quite the same @Mad Mike
@Mad Mike I've read it (on GOV.UK) and not that I can see, unless you are employed in one of the listed categories, which he wasn't. So, the Act doesn't apply to him. In fact, the Act specifically says you have to be informed previously that the Act applies to you. Don't think he was!!
I can only hope that you now realize this wrong......
5.2 Did he disclose it? No. Not willingly anyway. Possibly when threatened by the police.
The police stopped him as they had a suspicion, subsequently proved correct, that he was carrying the information. Failure to comply with a request to hand the material over would then be a breach of the OSA.
5.6 Two defences. Firstly, he didn't disclose. Secondly, it didn't come into his possession because of a breach of the Act. It came from the NSA and it was willingly given to them. So, it came into his possession possibly through a breach of an American law, not a breach of the Official Secrets Act.
Before suggesting that other people read the OSA if you bothered to read the act yourself you will find that obtaining materials from a foreign source is covered.
6.2 Again, no disclosure.
Not required it just has to be in his possession.
8.4 Was he asked to return it? No.
How do you know this? ..... I would have thought this would be the first question they would ask given that he was stopped because he was suspected to be carrying information.
Did he get it from a Crown servant or government contractor? No.
Read the OSA carefully.......
8.5 Was he officially asked to return it? No. Therefore he can't have failed to return it.
8.6 Again, no disclosure.
So, he hasn't breached the Official Secrets Act in any way. He hasn't breached any of the sections you've highlighted, largely because they never actually asked to him to do anything (such as return it) and instead turned into the Stasi and escalated the situation potentially without need.
The Stasi, or indeed the Egyptian secret police (mentioned in the article) probably wouldn't have let him go. They stopped him on suspicion which was then confirmed how was this esculated?
I am quite aware the act doesn't need to be signed, hence my use of quotes around it. The act of 'signing' is simply making sure a person is explicitly aware.
You may be aware that the act doesn't need to be signed .... you didn't seem to be aware that it also does apply to people who haven't worked for the government.
Re: Not quite the same @dogged
In the court summary the documents are described as classified as either Secret or Top Secret. The definition of these classifications is information that is directly or indirectly useful to an enemy. The wording is different along the lines of putting individuals or the state in danger .... so you might have to think about this a little.
It is of course possible that the Police asked David to return rather than disclose the information? Maybe that's why he wasn't charged and they let him go after 9 hours?
Re: Not quite the same @Mad Mike
A summary of the provisions of the Official Secrets act that apply to people who haven't signed is 'disclosure of or failure to return information which has been subject to the Official Secrets Act' is an offence.
The paragraphs are -
5.2) Subject to subsections (3) and (4) below, the person into whose possession the information, document or article has come is guilty of an offence if he discloses it without lawful authority knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that it is protected against disclosure by the foregoing provisions of this Act and that it has come into his possession as mentioned in subsection (1) above.
5.6) A person is guilty of an offence if without lawful authority he discloses any information, document or other article which he knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, to have come into his possession as a result of a contravention of section 1 of the [1911 c. 28.] Official Secrets Act 1911.
6.2) Subject to subsection (3) below, the person into whose possession the information, document or article has come is guilty of an offence if he makes a damaging disclosure of it knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that it is such as is mentioned in subsection (1) above, that it has come into his possession as there mentioned and that its disclosure would be damaging.
8.4) Where a person has in his possession or under his control any document or other article which it would be an offence under section 5 above for him to disclose without lawful authority, he is guilty of an offence if—
(a)he fails to comply with an official direction for its return or disposal; or
(b)where he obtained it from a Crown servant or government contractor on terms requiring it to be
held in confidence or in circumstances in which that servant or contractor could reasonably expect that it would be so held, he fails to take such care to prevent its unauthorised disclosure as a person in his position may reasonably be expected to take.
8.5) Where a person has in his possession or under his control any document or other article which it would be an offence under section 6 above for him to disclose without lawful authority, he is guilty of an offence if he fails to comply with an official direction for its return or disposal.
8.6) A person is guilty of an offence if he discloses any official information, document or other article which can be used for the purpose of obtaining access to any information, document or other article protected against disclosure by the foregoing provisions of this Act and the circumstances in which it is disclosed are such that it would be reasonable to expect that it might be used for that purpose without authority.
It is, as I understand it, a common fallacy to assume that the act either only applies to people who have signed it or worked in an official capacity for the UK government.
Re: Not quite the same @dogged
Are you now telling me that it is illegal for some information (regardless of type) to be carried in the UK?
Yes ... OSA, Espionage these sort of laws. You will find that for certain jobs in the UK there is a requirement to sign the Official secrets act, this is to ensure that you are aware of the act. The Act Itself applies however regardless.
How can it possibly be illegal to carry information when one has broken no other law?
See above or read it yourself ......
Re: Not quite the same @Richard Tyler
He as a foreign national was carrying just over 58,000 stolen highly classified UK intelligence documents .... I guess they must have got past the encryption. Like it or not as a minimum this would be against the official secrets act.
Not quite the same
He was stopped and found to be carrying information contrary to UK law. Whilst I don't think anybody would argue that he was a terrorist the information he was carrying would certainly be useful to terrorists.
Your comparison to councils is not dissimilar to comparing the detention of Al Jazeera journalists in Egypt with David's detention (and release). David was detained for 9 hours found to have been in possession of documents against UK law, the journalists in Egypt seem to have been detained indefinitely.
Re: Bubble has burst ..... ? @Daniel B
By definition BTC could be called a “fiat currency” insofar as the believers say “it shall be”. That said an analysis of other currencies suggests that for a “fiat currency” to be successful it needs a critical mass of support, stability (low levels of either inflation or deflation) and this is a point I have suggested before a powerful sponsor. So for example looking at the currencies you have quoted above USD, GBP and EUR all of these three currencies have a vast circulation, and powerful economies sponsoring the use of the currency.
Whilst you might by definition argue that BTC is a “fiat currency” the question is more will it be a “successful fiat currency”. Questions you need to think about are:
Who uses bitcoin (and why)?
Is it stable?
Does it have a powerful sponsor?
I would suggest that BTC success as a currency will be determined by these questions.
On the point of me being a right wing I guess you might assume that because I am saying that a currency needs a powerful sponsor (Banks/Capitalists/Armies ….Tanks, Guns etc). FYI I am commenting more on the reality of the world not the morality of the situation. From a financial point of view I could probably accuse you of the same in that you appear to have money to burn for BTC speculation whereas I don’t.
Bubble has burst ..... ?
Looks like from the high of $1000 Bitcoin is now down to $250 ... just maybe people are getting bored with tulips?
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