60 posts • joined Friday 12th March 2010 21:19 GMT
Re: @Ledswinger Hmm@A J Stiles
You may be right that it isn't mentioned in polite company, but it comes up all the time in conversation here in the United States.
Re: Not a good day for apple
Thanks for that - I hadn't seen it before. Interesting that Apple would make the representation that a sheet of paper that says applications for Android can be had at one location, and applications from Apple may be had at another, is accused of intentionally misleading a reader that the two are the same. Oh, I know that the argument really points to use of the term "AppStore" and that Apple accuses Amazon of trying to mislead consumers into believing that the service is the same in each location, but that's a very uphill battle. Refreshing to see a common-sense approach to such arguments. I have a feeling that Apple has much more to its argument than was presented in the article.
Re: Humour test
Of course - that is the point. This order was not a test of Apple's sense of humor, and certainly not a wish by any of the judges to exercise theirs (I believe American judges largely have their senses of humor surgically removed upon ascension to the bench), but an attempt to actually get a specific result. Apple quite intentionally showed that they did not believe they had to produce that result. That misapprehension has been corrected. I have no doubt that the judges quite honestly hope they will not have to go back for any additional correction. If so, there will be no happy campers.
Re: Well, what did he expect?
The problem, even if he did say it, was that it was in no way any part of the holding or ruling on the case. Such a simple thing, and so hard for some to understand. To say that anyone Apple would hire to represent them can't tell the difference between a casual remark and a decision from the bench would be an insult to the brain-dead. The judge also could have ordered a pastrami sandwich while off the record and it would have had no place in any description or analysis of the ruling. You guys are a pleasure to read - opinionated, bright, funny, well-rounded and full of unexpected knowledge in many areas, but boy, there sure are some klunkers that periodically slouch their way in. You don't have to agree, but at least try to pretend you thought about it first, if only to allow the rest of us to imagine that all that money for public education isn't going directly into the toilet.
Re: We Kpop now!
Does the South Korean government get a share? If so, you can't consider that a gamble!
Re: KAMiKZ @ 16:52
I'm not going to downvote you, but if you really think any pointed comment here has any influence on Apple's corporate progress, or represents anything other than a relatively mild expression of preference for any possible number of characteristics (including the ones you obviously feel), or even possibly the opportunity to simply make a joke, you are sadly mistaken. And quite likely on the wrong website. Have a beer instead.
To be fair, though, it seems to be more fun to piss and moan on Andrew and Lewis. At least comments are available now.
I'm sure you'd have an Eighth Amendment complaint on your hands. (Amendment to the US Constitution - prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishments" for those not forced to memorize such things.)
Re: 14 days?
"What an insult to the judges intelligence - its like they are begging for a contempt charge." - Chet Mannly @ 20:43
I feel you there, but what really surprised me was that the judges were aware that such a change COULD be made within one day. I know a lot of judges that would have simply accepted Apple's representation because they didn't know any better.
"Actually, the judges are pompous self righteous fuckwits. They are modifying their original judgement without due process, and their original order was verging on ultra vires in the first place. Rather to full of their own importance." - AC, at 1940 GMT.
I have not appeared in an English courtroom, but as an American lawyer (put that sharp object down, sir!), I tend to agree with the general sentiment of the first sentence here in application to the judiciary universally. I can tell you that as to the second sentence you have no idea what you are talking about. The third sentence is considered as informative as "water is wet" where I practice. I'd say overall your comment is pretty much what could be expected from an ill-informed corporate apologist.
There really is no doubt the judge(s) had the power and authority to do what they did, and under the fact presented it is not surprising that they exercised that power and authority.
By the way: Tossup between "Judge Jacob said: I’m at a loss that a company such as Apple would do this," and "Apple's original statement was not considered to be robust" for biggest LOL.
Re: Called it
I agree. The judge's opinion of "cool" is not a part of the Court Opinion - it is something called "dicta" and has no force for enforcement purposes; it quite literally is not a part of the ruling. On the other hand, the judge's perception that Apple had engaged in extra-judicial name-calling and media engagement so as to warrant the presentation of a correction is a part of the decision. It occurs relatively frequently when a party has introduced misleading or flat-out incorrect info in a perceived attempt to manipulate the court or the public. That part is not ridiculous or so very unusual. The unusual part is that Apple should have left itself open to such an order, a d then displayed such open passive-aggressiveness more common to a kindergarten schoolyard. When you play with the big boys you don't always get to make your own rules. That expectation is a fail.
Re: Swiss Neutrality ?
"The Arms of Krupp," by William Manchester, an interesting history of Germany's largest and most thoroughly integrated cannon and munitions manufacturer, provides some relevant tidbits on this and many other subjects dealing with Germany's relationships with other nations in the pre-war runups and post-war rundowns of that nation's history. I only read it because it detailed an extremely distant part of our family, but I re-read it twice because I believe it is an execeptional, well-researched and informative read.
Re: Swiss Neutrality ?
Oh, please. Normally I would just let a comment like this go, but the idea of Swiss individuals who keep hunting rifles at home being an ultimate deterrent to the German Wehrmacht is just silly. If Germany had really been serious and had gotten around to it, I can't help but believe the Swiss would have been swept from their land in a relatively short time. Yes, some Germans would have been killed; a helluva lot more Swiss would have been lost. Switzerland did not pose a realistic threat to German interests at that time (I will leave others to determine or argue why that was so, and what interests were involved) and so was not militarily removed. That is all there is to it. I strongly admire Swiss independence and the principles upon which it rests, and I take a back seat to none in applauding their political acumen during the Second World War. But to try to frame an argument, as the author of the linked material seems to, that its was the right embodied in the American Second Constitutional Amendment that preserved their freedom isn't worth the energy I just spent on this comment. This is why I normally let this stuff pass. . . Hopefully I just read the link incorrectly and only made a fool of myself (something I do more often than post comments).
Re: Umm, so which is it?
Contrary to what seems to be a firm belief in forums, there is no law or even rule against the placing of jurors in a panel with relevant experience with the issues in the case being tried. The general preference of trial lawyers (both defense and plaintiff) is to have a blank slate upon which to write their own opinions and facts, and not have to worry about a juror realizing that there is more to an issue than they are being told, or that the party (or attorney) is not telling them the truth. Having said that, such a preference is obviously not always practical - you have a limited pool of people from which to pull jurors, and even in a case like this a judge will not allow unlimited peremptory (without cause) removal of a prospective juror. The determining factor is whether a juror can be fair with the knowledge presented at trial, based on that juror's own life experience, not whether a juror will put aside his/her own real experience and indulge in accepting only the arguments presented while ignoring what they know to be true in the "real world." Given that, it is not unusual to assume that both technical knowledge, economic experience and basic common sense all found their way into the jury room for deliberations. Even given a lawyer's preference for a jury having minimal opinions of their own, no one wants a bunch of idiots making decisions for their clients. (I realize this is a great set-up line - swing away!)
You can argue with a jury's decision based on a lot of factors, but you should be able to count on a certain amount of garden-variety common sense being applied. If it doesn't appear to have been so, I would suggest looking a little closer at the arguments and exhibits permitted or denied at trial or the jury instructions presented to the jury. That is usually the source of the public's true disagreement with trial results. Of course, it is always possible for juries to mistake instructions and misinterpret evidence or argument, but again, it sometimes depends on the perspective of the observer or comment.
Re: If this hadn't happened to a tech journo, but an ordinary mortal...
"Sure security policies by apple, amazon and the like need to be investigated after this . . . "
Well, it turns out they really should have been investigated and vetted BEFORE this happened. Try as you might, the story really is the apparently rather easy ability of someone without real knowledge of an individual or account to get where this hacker got, primarily by being stubborn. Placing the blame on the journalist's difficulty in replacing data because is doesn't fit one's idea of Apple saintliness is not much of a contribution to the discussion, which I think should be on the loss of data in the first place. I like the Apple products a lot, though I don't like the premium (my family all have iPhones, though old ones now). This should not blind one, however, to either the original problem or the rather unhelpful response action given by Apple in this instance. (And this appears to be only the latest of instances of the latter event.)
Admittedly, I don't have a bunch of answers to help Apple here, and not enough details, but at least I think I see the proper pressure point. If we intend to make serious comments, let's keep our eye on the ball.
"Sir, we have 650 GB of porn now, we're ready to shut it down!" "Well, I think we could use a little more, just to be sure. I'll just di it muself; be sure to close the door on your way out . . ."
I would be more than willing to tell you that you've slipped up if I could get at all past the basic concept as it is described. Fascinating, but more than a little outside my field; perhaps when it's made into a comic book . . .
Re: Still nonsense Apple bashing...
Joerge: Dude, you really don't get this stuff at all, do you? I am a California lawyer, but I don't specialize in intellectual property so I largely stay out of these discussions. Some of the comments here are insightful, some are rather amusing, but yours is just clueless. I suggest sticking with what you are good at, and give it another try after you have taken an opportunity to educate yourself. The documents in this case are interesting reading, and can be a real education.
I would not bother commenting, but by my opposable thumbs, sometimes you reach a point . . .
Re: Fragmentation = Choice = Confusion = Complications
And a telephone book (remember them?) is complicated to certain people. There are limitations to using email on the iPhone, as well as in other well-documented areas (I have the 4), and though it does not make it more complicated, it also does not make anything "easier." As you say, "it's a phone," and I would expect to each his own. I'm not sure why you would "detest" a phone, though I have to add that my mobile phones have all been the result of my own (occasionally misplaced) judgment, rather than rationed out by a generous employer, so I can only confess to my own mistakes. I would anticipate that, since you're wise enough in the world to interact here at El Reg, you are also wise enough to avoid any Android malware by use of common sense. But you're right, that could be too complicated. I will be looking to Android, I believe, in the near future.
Re: null and void
Agree with the thrust of this comment. I think you have to account for the apparent fact that most of the rewriting is from press pieces rather than any attempt at hard or strictly factual news to begin with. The failure to add any value through follow-up or independent critical thinking is really just frosting on the cake.
Re: Anna, Anna, Anna
While going through your dictionary, I suggest you look up the word "ironic." Your use is.
Re: Without Prejudice?
Exactly. Judge Posner (whom I respect immensely as a rare judicial clear thinker) has basically said that neither side has sufficient goods to prevail on their claims. He would, however, allow each to retire to their respective corners and try to re-write their complaints to meet the applicable threshold. The "tentative" part is a warning: these judges don't often change their tentative rulings, particularly when they have been made public. (They don't want a reputation of being uncertain.). I expect that the tentative will. E the order unless someone can show him some pretty convincing (and real, not some marketing drone powerpoint whining) evidence. A day to be much hoped for, in my view.
Here's To . . .
. . . da beers!
(Oh please, you knew it was coming!)
I don't know
From what I've read (no direct personal experience) from the usual suspects (Anandtech, et al), Llano has it all over Atom in its present incarnation, and this next round from Intel isn't likely to make a difference, particularly with graphics capabilities. Any opinions out there, as if I didn't know?
The Key Phrase
The key phrase in your comment is "similar specs". Looking at the Apple closed system with integrated vertical management and "take it or leave it" features, we do not find a similar spec to, say, the Tab currently at issue, or more open alternatives to Apple. You may argue that what is really a premium price for what you get from Apple is worth it ("it just works" (for you), ineffable "cool" factor, etc.), and I would not (could not, since it is a matter of opinion) argue with you, but then that is a different issue.
I would definitely become terminally confused between this and an actual iPhone - they are virtually indistinguishable. I am not in any way a fan of Apple (or any closed system), but: Way. Way. Cool.
@Manu T re: Price and Mass Market
Your arguments are circular, inconsistent and difficult to follow. Nevertheless, I do understand where you are going. The point where I believe you are seriously wrong is: "Apple has the best position for the passive consumer market because of their ties with music- and moviesuppliers and unrivaled the success of iTunes-store as a passive media-selling portal." Barring some cataclysmic head injury with an inability to differentiate between a slice of toast and a polar bear with hemorrhoids, I doubt I will ever admit that the cogital abortion known as "iTunes" is a positive in any world.
Thank you for your time and attention.
The people who post here sometimes just amaze me with their impenetrable problems and inability to change the smallest of habits (which are generally only the result of their laziness and available funds). Convenience, like most things after all, is a matter of taste, perspective and genetic pre-disposition.
Plus one, though, for admitting the laziness and "more money than sense".
. . . buy a notebook for the backpack or briefcase, I don't buy a phone for the case or charger plug, I don't buy a television for its . . . its . . . whatever you buy with televisions. I buy the item I intend to buy, at the right price and with the right features. If I want accessories, I buy the damn accessories, not an unnecessary money sinkhole. If you buy a piece of technology for its accessories, I submit that you not only bought the wrong technology, but you had no business having that much money to begin with.
You Know . . .
. . . it's this level of critical thinking and penetrating analysis that is only possible to come by through perusing the Reg readership. Thank you for not wasting more of my time by attempting to create any actually cogent sentence, reflecting actual thought.
+1 for the brevity of guano, -1 for making any comment at all. What do we have for our contestant, Johnny?
You gotta love it
You gotta love the work and commute scenarios: at work, use the device to fool around with email instead of focusing on what's being done in your meeting and getting your part of the job done right; bonus points for not bothering to try to hide your ADD tendencies from your bosses so they will know just where the deadwood is. Although maybe you're googling for your Ritalin order, so maybe I should give the benefit of the doubt. On the train, plug in every sense receptacle possible so you will not have to actually acknowledge or interact with your fellow man (or women). Yes, yes, I know they aren't really men (or women) because they don't have your toys or obviously heightened social skills, but I'm still going with that.
re: Bravo, sir!
And that is an interesting observation. Since I simply don't know the answer, i will ask: how far does individual sovereignty of individual nations go under the umbrella of the EU in commercial/economic or political disputes? Is it akin to the original Confederation of States first adopted by the United States? You will recall that this failed due to an inability to get everyone facing the same direction, and a new Constitution was necessary. This, in turn, was tested when certain states, under the banner of "state sovereignty" attempted, by force, to withdraw from their earlier agreement. How much elasticity does the EU provide in commercial settings like this to prevent the economic (or other) warfare that can result from perceived preferences of judicial or political decisions? There must be some mechanism . . . I'm not sure I really expect an answer, but I have found that this group does not tend to shy away from discussions only peripherally related to IT . . .
Thanks in advance for the education / entertainment.
Overstepping is sometimes better than sleepwalking
it is my understanding that most nations have their own laws, or treaties, etc., and that it is incumbent upon the judiciary of each nation to maintain those laws in order to allow the reflection of the society that created those laws. For instance, it is permitted for a court to order an unsafe product out of a market over which that court holds jurisdiction, if the local laws define that product in that way. To do otherwise would expose a society to unreasonable harm (as that is defined by the applicable law). I expect that this is the analogous reasoning taking place. The question is the extent of the applicable jurisdiction, not the inherent right to enforce laws affecting that jurisdiction. In other words, the judge cannot stop Samsung from making the item, but can prevent it being marketed where such marketing would violate the laws of the court's jurisdiction. Overstepping in application, to the extent no one seems to know how far such a decision can be enforced, but not in theory. If you say the judge had no right, I believe you, but there seems to be some doubt all around at the moment.
A good point. If I recall the original news item I read about the injunction (presented on El Reg, of course), it mentioned potential jail time and personal penalties against Samsung management if the company were found liable - a combination of civil and criminal penalties. Does anyone know whether such a punishment was specifically sought by Apple, and whether such a request would/could be taken seriously in this type of action? If Apple actually pressed for the imprisonment of Samsung's masters, then my opinion of that fruity little beggar is dropping rapidly. (The use of "fruity little beggar" shows where it is now.)
. . . and +1 for cultural reference
May the schwartz be with you!
Exactly my reaction
The potent combination of Andrew Orlowsky and the BBC, each with the power to ignite the Reg masses with the heat of a hundred burning suns (and a few torches and pitchforks) garners only 51 comments? Pfah! I must have tuned in too early . . .
There's an idea!
Being as how I am named Richard, +1 for you!
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