3461 posts • joined 16 Nov 2009
Once again, you're making one mistake by implying that Nokia should have necessarily chosen only one OS vendor.
I'm not, you know. Once you decide you're outsourcing the OS requirement, Meego/Maemo is no longer an option. Android is crap on low-power handsets. MS are paying big money for Navteq. The options were -
a) keep Navteq but receive minimal revenue because there's no incentive for MS to buy the service,
b) scrap Navteq and make high-end Android handsets as well as WP which implies patent liability against Apple and total loss of Navteq revenue and investment,
c) keep Navteq, scrap Series 40/Asha and make high end WP phones and low end Android phones (which suck) or
d) Make money from Navteq, make high-end WP phones and low-end Asha/S40 phones. Which is what they went for.
You can't outsource OS development and keep Meego alive. The two are mutually exclusive.
Re: @dogged: Elop works for Nokia?
I think that's because it's designed to come with the keyboard+touchpad cover. Most tablets aren't.
In any case, I thought we were talking about Nokia and phones?
Re: @dogged: Elop works for Nokia?
@eulampios - I'll take these in order, shall I?
If you're really objective here, explain us why did Nokia put all of its dwindling eggs in one vendor's basket coincidental with the last Elop's employer?
Because they're Nokia, they were (at the time) the biggest player in the world and they weren't happy to be just another OEM. They had services to sell, such as Navteq mapping (which is undeniably better than any other vendor's mapping solution).
So they talked to Google. Would Google buy and use Navteq mapping? No. Would Google allow Nokia to set boundaries and definitions (important for the low-cost market in which Nokia traditionally shifts vast numbers) on the OS's requirements, capabilities and APIs? No. Would they chuck in a big bucket of cash as an incentive to go with them? No.
Microsoft evidently answered "yes" to all the above because that's what they've done. I'm not saying Elop's employment history wouldn't have made this easier - Elop would know who to approach and how to get the best deal out MS. Short of hiring a CEO out of Google, Nokia couldn't get that kind of insider knowledge on that side of the fence.
Regardless, if Nokia had gone Google, Nokia Maps services would be dead. All that money, thrown away. Their low-cost handsets would give the low-cost Android experience (which, unless carefully managed by a user prepared to tinker with their handset and kill battery+cpu munching background apps) sucks buttock. They would not have the transition cash.
Frankly, if Nokia had gone with Android after the MS offer had been finalized, any shareholder performing a decent due diligence check would have been wholly justified in suing the board for commercial negligence. Not such a great start for the new CEO.
Why killing Meego when it was ready?
What's the thing everyone goes on about regarding WP? No apps. Now, in WP's case, this is partly justified because third-parties have been really slow about building WP apps (especially banks and financial services) which is a problem. Oh, and Instagram, for all your sepia-toned crap photo sharing needs. Apart from that, the OS itself does most things. Meego doesn't. And it practically had zero apps. And yes, you could implement Android apps over it but that leaves you with a cut-price Android handset (which sucks) and wastes the OS. And as for gaining support - nobody else was going to use it. It would have been a Nokia-only thing. And it would have meant retaining the OS teams and all the politics, cost and trouble they brought with them because it wasn't finished. No OS is ever finished. You know that.
And let's talk about apps for a moment - Qt is a great way to write C++ but it's still C++ and as such it has a (partly justified) rep for being hard. To the Objective-C app writer, it would have looked like a scary new language (they'd be wrong but then, you have to be a deeply twisted individual to like Objective-C). The Android app-writer works in Java and Java coders are terrified of C++. MS were offering .NET instead - you can write apps in Visual fucking Basic (coding for retards) if you want to! Hell, you can use Python or C# or C++ or whatever you want to write WP apps. The potential pool of contributors to the WP ecosystem is orders of magnitude greater even than the potential pool of Android devs.
That's why they ditched Meego. It was a dead end OS, doomed from the moment that Java coders started to rule the app world.
I'm not saying it wasn't good - it was. But so was Betamax.
@Phil W - the "sudden and total lunge" thing wasn't sudden and wasn't total.
Series 40 and Asha phones are still being made, so scrub "total". As for "sudden", as I recall Nokia were in quite deep talks with both Google and MS before they made a decision. They got better terms from MS because Google didn't need them and weren't shy about saying so.
The thing about Elop is that he may be ex-MS but the emphasis is "ex". He wasn't there very long, he wasn't successful there (although he has been elsewhere), he was an "outsider" and as such, like many other outsiders in MS, never really fitted in and would have been looked at with suspicion by the insiders...
You can love, hate or not care about his decisions but blaming MS for them in the light of his (brief) history there is, I think, bloody stupid.
You know, at the risk (well, certainty really) of being called a shill again, I have to disagree.
Aside - Anyone who cares to disagree is quite free to call me wrong, that's fine, but please don't call me paid to be wrong.
On topic. When Nokia's board hired Elop, Symbian wasn't exactly doing well and Meego/Maemo was a money pit that they'd flung hundreds of millions of euros into for basically nothing except politics and a shonky implementation that had no app support. Article after article said that Nokia was floundering, and badly.
Further aside - Jess will be here shortly to tell me that Symbian is awesome and does all her housework as well having variable vibration controls and a "validate my feelings" function which nods sympathetically and provides free chocolate but the fact remains that it was sinking, if not in the market then certainly in the industry press and every single analyst estimate, and that's what the directors care about.
Elop's call was to outsource the OS and thus most of the software engineering outside the "services" area (basically Navteq and Ovi), consolidate software efforts on providing Nokia's (rebranded) Ovi services and stick what Nokia are justly famous for - quality hardware.
If you leave it at that, it's hard to fault as a decent CEO decision.
What upsets most people here is that Nokia went with MS instead of Google but really, that's just religious hatred which feeds this "trojan horse" confirmation bias. Why MS? Because money. Operating funds and (WP8) a working OS with an easy-to-use flavour. Nokia has historically - pre Symbian - favoured easy-to-use. The 3310, possibly the best-selling phone ever, had an OS so amazingly simple that anyone who could read could use it in less than a minute.
Nokia went with MS because MS gave them loads of cash and an OS that worked with their philosophy in the days when they sold billions of phones.
You can hate this. You can scream in unfulfilled fanboy rage about the lack of a Nokia Android handset if you want. But it's just the way it went.
I have a Motorola V3xx RAZR in my pocket so shill that, bitches.
Was this article ghost-written by Eadon?
It does everything except have "MICROSOFT FAIL" in caps at the end.
Re: Ha Ha Ha... bite me!
To be fair, they're finger-friendly. I tried logging into my bank's website on my phone the other day which (what with endless drop-boxes and links in every form directing away to different forms) could use a tool like this.
Oh Jess, I know your torch is burning brightly for Symbian but do read the article before posting.
It runs WP8.
Re: How much RAM?
512, apparently. The reviews indicate that this is plenty.
Re: explanation for commenter "dgharmon"
I'd fire Case1 and get somebody who can write a Build script (for desktop/server programs) or press the "Publish" button and fill in a form for web apps.
@Eadon - yeah, Microsoft hates linux.
Re: Microsoft mentioned a lot?
@Chris - You have to be able to take it if you're going to dish it out
Re: Microsoft mentioned a lot?
I've been using debian since 1996, Eadon. Just as Bruce Perens took over as project lead, actually.
I doubt if you were out of nappies back then.
In any case, my question is why you, who trumpets the benefits of "open" at every available opportunity and quite a few that aren't (Astronomy? Really? wtf is wrong with you?) , continually recommend a distro which has more closed and commercial components than any other distro I can think of.
I doubt if you'll answer because I doubt if panicking and typing "help convince Mint open" into Wikipedia will be of much use to you now.
Re: Microsoft mentioned a lot?
I've just installed linux mint on a test box.
The sheer amount of proprietary closed-source crap in this "open" system is mindboggling, especially on the media side. Exactly why do you keep pimping it?
Troll - unfed.
Re: Microsoft mentioned a lot?
That's eight mentions of Microsoft on the main page .. and three mentions of Windows ...
And all but one of them deeply negative.
Hard to see, for example, how MS offering $Bn as part of a $22Bn buyout can be seen as "stalling" that buyout as the headline suggests and the article tries really hard to justify.
Oh, look an advert for a Chromebook and a Google Nexus at the top ...
Licking the hand that feeds The Register...
Re: Flat tax
The rich pay more VAT as they consume more.
This is a common misconception. The rich pay less VAT as a proportion of their income.
For example, say you buy a DVD. That has 20% VAT on it and takes you two hours to watch. A rich person might in theory be able to buy 200 DVDs but the 400 hours to watch them all in cannot be bought. Earning 200 times what you earn does not mean spending 200 times what you spend. In the long term, it actually results in spending less.
This is perhaps best explained by Terry Pratchett, although he neglects to mention that the poor man will also pay exponentially more VAT. Here's the quote.
“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.”
Re: Flat tax
@James - downvoted due to your system's reliance on VAT. The would simply mean "more of the same" where we pay VAT on fuel and then we pay excise duty on fuel (including VAT total) and then we pay VAT on fuel (including excise duty and previous VAT total).
Or that situation where 20 B&H will cost over £7 but the shopkeeper makes 50p and the manufacturer makes 75p. All the rest is tax (which, incidentally, puts smokers in credit to the tune of 19-1 on calculated balance of health service income/cost).
The sooner we get away from sales taxes and back to income taxes, the sooner we'll stop subsidising the wealthy.
Re: Flat tax
Provided that a reasonable standard of living is defined as the basic (and inalienable) tax-free allowance and that state benefits cease to be regarded as a taxable income, I'm good with that.
However, a flat rate which leaves an income of £10,000pa with £8,000pa while leaving an income of £1,000,000 with £800,000 is a horrible idea. Hence personal allowances.
I also like the idea of removing VAT, a regressive tax which hits the poor far harder than the rich.
WTB - ability to post picture of Xzibit.
"yo dawg I heard you like phones so we put a phone in your phone so you can phone while you phone..."
"Now you can get plugged in to the wireless revolution"
I beg your pardon?
Re: Here's an idea...
@Crisp - the data is pretty interesting to look at. A lot of the bands I don't recognize (it's been a while since I was a proper RF engineer) but I can certainly pick out a couple of "reserved" areas which are - by the data - almost unused.
In situations where those bands "belong" to emergency services, that's a good thing. Some form of database is going to help a lot, not simply with determining which space is "white" but also which space is reserved by whom - the last thing you need is some clever piece of white space broadcasting kit deciding that ATC frequencies near a remote Alaskan airstrip can be hijacked at 3am. Because you're always going to find that time when they really, really can't.
So. I'd like a legend on this data please. Other than that, it seems to be extremely useful.
Re: Puff Piece
The article said the word "Microsoft" so he was contractually obliged to post some angry pro-linux rant on it.
Disclaimer - I am not suggesting that this contractual obligation was to anyone other than the little pixies who whisper in his ear all the time. Anyone who was actually paying him in something other than shiny wurblecoins might notice how damaging he is to their own cause and quickly stop doing so.
Anyway, some of us still think that accusations of "shill" are uncouth.
WTF would anyone downvote that?
Because it suggests that the build quality and/or software of an Apple product may be less than utter, utter orgasmic perfection?
I can't say for sure but remember that Apple is a cult, not a company.
It's a bit like putting Gary Glitter and Jimmy Savile in charge of the local creche ("shudder").
While I respect the sentiment, both of those two were said to be interested in teenaged girls (in Glitter's case, with evidence beyond "somebody said so"). It's no less repulsive but at least the creche is safe.
Re: Free to air TV will suffer the same fate as print media,
I was happy with DVD until I watched Revenge of the Sith on Bluray.
Seriously? Couldn't you find a good film to watch?
You can be just as legit with OpenOffice or LibreOffice.
Or use BBC Basic and write your own!
Re: @Dave 126
I tried several programs supposed to allow me to scroll a window or a control.
Seems pretty easy to me. I'm no WPF expert but I'm pretty certain I could make that happen, although to be fair the window or control in question would still fire events during scrolling.
Re: Windows 8 FAIL
@kb - your "usability expert" seems not have noticed the Desktop. At all.
Makes you wonder about these "experts".
Re: Windows 8 FAIL
(let's face it, it's rubbish
No, it's an improvement over Win7 which was itself rather good.
If you don't like the interface, that's your right but the OS is fine. Then again, you're on record here as declaring Windows 7 "unfit for purpose" which I think marks you as a zealous idiot rather than any kind of useful judge.
Windows Store App - feasible.
I don't know if you've played with OneNote MX. It's a touch-optimised version of OneNote and it's really rather clever. One could even call it innovative, if one were of a mind to.
Try it. It's a free download from the Windows App Store. (Also runs on normal Win8).
I see no reason why the whole Office suite can't follow along in MX versions.
Try France. Until you've tried to sort out somebody else's (they tell you) C++, actually taken a look and discovered VB written in French, you haven't seen real horror.
The gutteral consonant is often dropped in standard Egyption pronunciation, leaving the word itself sounding more like (forgive my transliteration) "aowlb".
Re: Good article.
Let it go, it doesn't matter. Eadon is incapable of admitting fault and is religiously biased and zealous in his posting. Find an article containing the words "Microsoft" or "Windows" - any article at all! - and there he is.
Me, I'm actually pleased with how it's all turned out. Eadon, and Eadon alone has made the Register less enjoyable than work. My productivity is way up.
Re: Good article.
MS is not a serious cloud player. Amazon and Google and others own the cloud market.
Opinion based on wishful thinking. Sorry, dismissed.
iCloud does not run on Azure - that's a myth - you're googling and finding rumours from 2 years ago.
Actually, it does. The authentication is delivered via AWS but the storage and retrieval is Azure. You don't know what you're talking about.
MS will not catch up with Google and Amazon - they're falling further behind each year.
More baseless opinion, devoid of fact or information.
You're not worth the keystrokes, Eadon. I won't even bother to correct you any more. Feel free to tell your endless lies here from now on. Somebody else can argue, although it seems that you've acquired a fully justified reputation these days so probably people will just sit back and laugh.
Re: Good article.
1. Ballmer has $66.6 billion US to work with, but nice try.
2. MS are non-players in the cloudy and mobile revolutions
You know what iCloud runs on? MS Azure. And Office365 is already a huge player, based on Azure.
Amazon are currently bigger but they're the only larger provider that exists. As for mobile, MS were a major player pre-iPhone with WM and foolishly rested on their laurels rather than work to maintain that position, an IE6 problem if you will. Now they're working pretty hard to recoup and offer the consumers choice and competition.
I know you don't like the idea of consumer choice, but I do.
Your little dreamworld must such a fun place for you. Why don't you stay there?
Oddly, I agree with Gavin pretty much 100%. "Outsiders" don't seem to last long at MS and Kempin wants to sell a book. Ballmer's weaknesses have historically been backing losers rather than Machiavellian plotting. If Sinofsky hadn't bailed (and nobody except he and the MS board really know why), this book would have sunk without a trace due to lack of media interest.
As it is, he'll probably sell a copy to Eadon (it can go on his "erotic fantasy" shelf) but that's about it.
Re: "a spokesperson said Microsoft was reviewing the letter."
Okay, but Apple have the Reg on a spamfilter.
"a spokesperson said Microsoft was reviewing the letter."
to be fair, at least they talk to you no matter how anti "M$" both this organ and its legion of commentards become.
Unlike some other companies.
Re: "... I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal"
"Tinkling cymbal" according to the KJV. Well, bladder control can be a problem with age.
Re: Ricky Gervais...
That's because Ricky Gervais is a prick
(I have no love for the Pope but seriously, Ricky Gervais is a massive prick).
Re: Nice takedown El Reg, nice takedown...
According to commentards on the Verge (who published this story 26 hours ago), it's been down for two days.
Re: The only blue thing Microsoft can do is the Blue Screen Of Death
5:42 am - man, I hope they pay you overtime for this hard work you do.
Microsoft wants data about you for advertising (or maybe even to sell, or will get bought one day, who knows?).
That's Google, and you mean "definitely to sell".
Also Windows has alleged back doors into Windows that the FBI/CIA use, and the like?
Millennium hand and shrimp I seen 'em! Watching me with rays! Them and their big weasel!
What an arsehole you are.
Personally, I'd love to cut off the landline. And to stop paying £15.50/month extortion money for having a landline at all, even if it's never used and is run by a different provider.
What are the odds on Ofcom jumping on THAT little abuse of the customer?
And @j arthur rank - giffgaff seem to attract a great deal of hate, not least from the author of this article (see Reg passim). Personally, I've had no problems with them.
Yeah, but that would hand over production to evil muslims, remember?
Solar plant by the Red Sea or in South Africa or Western Australia?
All these are doable. And silicon nanospheres sound a whole lot more transportable than lithium ion batteries.
"a few outstanding matters still need to be resolved."
Trans: Our extra fees and the amount the councils will pay us on top of the original quotes if we're late and how much we get to soak the end-users and how many exchanges we plan to write-off as insufficient demand have not yet been approved.
BT's business as usual.
Re: Cut the eye candy
@Eadon - if Windows natively supported ssh, cretins like you would scream "anti-trust" and have it taken out.
As it is, how many ssh clients are there? All free to download? All a matter of user choice?
Now please, just go. away.
Icon meaning "you would never believe how sick I am of this absolute fucking retard troll" please.
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