1888 posts • joined Friday 6th November 2009 05:17 GMT
The moment I read the headline I just knew..........
.........by means of some strange reverberation in the force that they had filed in East Texas. It was as if I suddenly heard a billion customer's voices calling out in terror and pain as.................
Re: "MS did it to themselves without deriving any significant benefit from their behaviour "
Just to add a further thought with regard to the irony of the situation. It is in a certain gruesome sense highly entertaining that had MS administered their market dominant position in a way that was in compliance with the law then it is likely that they would be in an even more dominating position today than they in fact are. It was their own (IMHO) stupidly unnecessary illegal behaviour that led to DOJ oversight for a decade and the fact that they are watched like hawks by all competition authorities throughout "known space". Had they shown some restraint their position today might have been in practice "bullet proof" - now that would have given the haters something to howl about! There is perhaps a certain Darwinian irony in the situation they are in today as the most watched company (as far as the compliance authorities are concerned) in the entire industry - bar none, even Cupertino. Therein lies perhaps a lesson for all versions of "BigCorp" - what goes around, comes around. Or perhaps, "being a bastard is not the only way to succeed."
Re:"As the PC market expoded Apple remained content to sell into their niche markets"
Indeed that is what happened. The practical reality was that during that period the only os that could have competed with MS was the Mac OS. Apple however (after a short-lived and unsuccessful attempt) refused to license to OEMs and stuck to the business model that you refer to. This more than anything else, whatever those who like to howl "convicted monopolist"* at Redmond on every possible occasion might believe, ensured that Windows would win. It is in fact one of the biggest and nastiest ironies of the industry during the nineties that Redmond's arsehole behaviour back then was almost certainly unnecessary as far as ensuring the dominance of Windows was concerned. They ended up convicted of anti-trust violations and suffered a decade and a half or more of serious reputational damage as a result of their conduct - conduct that in fact had little practical utility in terms of their aims. MS did it to themselves without deriving any significant benefit from their behaviour - that is richly ironic, although it does not in any way shape or form excuse their conduct for which they were rightly punished.
*The charge of being a monopolist does not exist under US or British law. In fact a monopoly is not in and of itself illegal. It's what you do with market dominance that is the issue - hence MS being convicted of anti-trust offences.
"Both generals were also friends with Natalie Khawam Wolfe, Kelley's identical twin. "
Good grief! if this had been submitted as a script for a day-time soap series in the US it would have been rejected out of hand for its lack of realism. Yet this is, apparently, real life - God help us all.
@Anonymous Custard RE:"But wouldn't it have made more sense to..............?"
I would not actually disagree with you. In the sense that if Redmond had had an agreed consensus strategy from the beginning with regard to the way they should tackle these issues then what you have pointed out would indeed have made a lot of sense. However, I have a strong feeling that up until the Build Conference about a year ago there were two or more warring camps with regard to precisely those strategic questions. The result has been (and here I admit that I am guessing) that the strategy that appears to be "materialising" has been somewhat ad hoc rather than properly planned at the outset. It may very well be that the result of the internal turf-wars that have undoubtedly been going on may be something like that you describe as initial customer response in the mass-market kicks in.
@tonysmith RE: "If that was their strategy...........
................then I think they are playing to their strengths while trying something new."
I am not sure whether that indeed was their intended strategy at the outset. However, I have noticed since the "Build Conference" when they launched the pre-beta (about a year ago now) that they have been somewhat less than precise about what their strategy is with regard to which os they will be pushing for enterprise. I get the feeling that there has been some "politics" going on internally (of which Sinofsky's departure may be one of the external signs) and that it is possible that there are those at Redmond who have been arguing that they have not yet got the mileage sales-wise out of 7 that it still potentially has and that 8's main function should be seen as ensuring that they do not get permanently locked out of the tablet market. I do not get the feeling that this view was universal at Redmond at the outset but that it now may have gained the upper hand.
"The other reason is Microsoft’s own field sales team are pushing Windows 7. The goal for Microsoft’s fiscal year 2013 is 70 per cent of enterprise PCs running Windows 7."
This is not surprising, Win7 is still Redmond's main platform for enterprise and I would have been astonished if they really thought that they could get a significant proportion of those business customers who are only now transitioning from XP to jump straight to 8. I get a strong feeling that whatever MS is saying publicly their strategy overall for the current product cycle will in reality be "twin prong", ie both 7 and 8. I believe that as far as they are concerned 8 is there to save a place for them in the tablet market rather than being their main effort overall whilst at the same time (in the form of Win8 rather than RT) still being compatible. How successful this attempt to straddle two horses at once will be remains to be seen but it is clear that that is what they are trying to do.
@Alain "this has to be the best comment I've read on El Reg for quite a while"
I agree entirely. Even though I am not anywhere near as dissatisfied with Win 8 as Trevor clearly is I will happily say that that post was one of the most intelligent, well argued and constructive that I have seen here at El Reg concerning Win8. I am so piss-tired of the "contributions" from the "Gold Card Members of the Anti-Microsoft Choral Howling Society" that I do not know where to begin to describe my feelings. However, this kind of post is another kettle of fish entirely. This kind of post is a real contribution to the debate and I personally felt that I learnt something from it. Major thumbs up to Trevor for that.
Good grief! All I can say is - see icon.
"While we are pleased by the share attention, Medbox shares have traded between $2.75 and $3.45 over the past several months," said CEO Bruce Bedrick in a statement. "our fundamentals and market potential are improving, but we temper investor expectations at present price points."
Let me see if I have understood this correctly
1. Elop leaves MS apparently in a cloud of good will and takes over at Nokia making him Redmond's mole there tasked with destroying the company.
2. Sinofsky leaves MS apparently under a cloud of ill will and whenever he takes over a new position, possibly at RIM, he will be Redmond's mole there tasked with destroying the company.
Now if you feel that I am satirising certain elements in this article and some of the attached postings you would be right. It is however IMHO not too far from an accurate synthesis of the contradictions in the arguments used, very often by the same "usual suspects" on many different occasions. I think that some of you guys better try a bit harder to avoid posting blatantly contradictory lines of argument on related threads.
Re:"There might be limited coverage just now for 4G," Yeeees, true. However what do you........
.........imagine the next Nexus will have when that issue is mass-market relevant and deliverable at a mass-market price, hmm? Yes Grasshopper if you actually try thinking you too will eventually attain wisdom.
She tweeted "still in a bit of shock but excited".
The grammatical logic of that is indeed that she was taken aback by a very unexpected promotion. It is in fact El Reg who are trying to run it as her expressing shock at Sinofsky's departure. She may indeed have been shocked by her old boss' departure but that tweet really needs to be stretched to sustain what the article is asserting. However, I do have a strong feeling that she is a place-holder, I do not believe that she has the CV to sustain that position.
@AC 14 Nov 11.47 "You can have what you like, so long as it's open..................
........and not Microsoft they say? See the contradiction there?"
When I'm feeling charitable I assume that they do not. When I am not feeling so benign I am forced to conclude that many of those postings are wilfully dishonest.
@Ken Hagen RE "Nothing to see here". You do know that sober, reflective and well argued..
...posts are not allowed on certain threads, amongst them being any thread connected to an issue involving MS? More seriously, I agree with you. For whatever reason he has concluded that further advance within MS is unlikely. For a man like Sinofsky that is more than enough reason to look around for pastures new without Ballmer having to send the boys round - much as some here would love to believe that type of version of events.
Re: " I was thinking of becoming an accountant for Starbucks.." Thumbs up for sneaking......
....a highly entertaining political joke onto the thread. On topic, well no - but funny all the same. Besides I imagine that Cupertino make sure that they pay even less tax than Starbucks do. :)
@bolccg "Wonder how much that price hike brought in?" Oh, I imagine Cupertino are'nt....
....that worried given that they will almost certainly be expecting a particular section of their enthusiastic fan-base to cover the costs - after all that particular section of their customer base have been cheering the Cupertino Posse "onwards and upwards" throughout all of this have they not? It would only be just if they had to pay Sammy's legal costs through the price of their next shiney.
As long as they show Jar-Jar-Binks being evicerated.............
...................very, very slowly I will be content.
Did you actually read the article Mr Harvey?
On the basis of what the article is reporting the DemonLordBastardDollarSignSwines are, apparently, doing nothing of the sort. Your point was?
Re: "Ever bought an Acer?" Once and once only. "Once bitten, twice shy" and all that.
However, I don't think that "they're better than Acer" could be described as something for A Certain Famous Mobile Phone Producer to boast about.
Re: "just pull an apple... " Well it is tempting to pose a few apposite questions is it not?
1. Are they pretending that the problem does not exist?
2. Are they blaming the customer for the problem?
3. Do they appear to be promptly replacing the equipment?
It would appear that the answers to questions 1 and 2 at least are an interesting study in contrasts to A Certain Famously Cool Hardware Producer.
@Allan George Dyer RE "......it means "Forty-four stone lions"."
I am old enough to remember that in the days before breathalysers were invented one quick way that some police used as a rapid judgement of a driver's condition was to get him to repeat "The Leith police dismisseth us" and if he couldn't then it was down to the station and the attendant police surgeon for a rather more scientific investigation. However, I have a gut feeling that the example you have posted is probably even more challenging stone cold sober, never mind a few sheets to the wind!
Re: "One word in 8?" Yes? This kind of challenge is huge and even if this kit is still not......
..............ready for showtime it is still an impressive advance (as pointed out in the article). The technical difficulties involved in this kind of technology are enormous and this is a clear step forward. Not good enough of course but nonetheless a clear improvement.
I have to say that I found this highly entertaining.
I had just begun the article and was mentally composing a post along the lines of "I bet that mobilised the gamer vote" and bugger me, she had! The local Republican party must be kicking themselves - way not to understand the cultural changes taking place in your society guys.
The thing I wonder about here is how long before their more "committed" supporters.......
.........(and I am sure that like fanbois all denominations, some of them should be) are going to begin to recognise that the behaviour that Cupertino are exhibiting is not in their supporters interests or indeed the long term interests of the company itself. How long before they realise that the biggest favour they could do for the beloved shiney-producer is, in the words of the 1960's advert for the anti-BO properties of Lifebuoy soap, "what your best friends won't tell you", is in fact to be a good friend to their favourite company and say "you are fucking up - big time!" If Apple go on like this they are going to bring the temple roof in on top of themselves - time to stop guys, really it is.
"I think we all know who the real enemy is" Yes we do and its name is..........
I think I need to lie down with a wet cloth on my forehead. I had a lot of pressure lately, life has been difficult...mumble, mumble.
Re:"Of course they've ported OS X to ARM. It's on 80 million phones. It's called iOS."
I am neither a Mac or a iPhone user but even I know that that is about as accurate as saying the WinPhone 8 is simply Windows 8 ported to mobile phone space.
@Autonomous Cowherd "they are acting like they feel they are above the law."
Indeed they are - that is obvious. What is also interesting is the fact that you have already been down-voted for what would appear to be indisputable. It appears that some if their supporters agree with this childish defiance that Cupertino are exhibiting. I do not need to mention any names but I think that it is remarkable that some of them actively support defiance of the law by their favourite company but go absolutely bananas on the occasions when A Certain (In)Famous Software Company gets caught playing fast and loose with the law. Sauce, goose, gander and all that.
@ AC 17.21 2nd Nov. ".......full of inbred catholics and drug dealers."
You clearly cannot tell the difference between a bit of trolling satire and being a complete arsehole. Well, I can assure you that you have managed to achieve the latter.
"I think Apple made a clever move, with the first ‘apology’ and the second ‘apology’."
No, actually. The average punter (in that degree they have taken any notice of this case) is not especially impressed with "big boys" who take the piss out of a court judgement. They think (naturally enough) that if "I would have do what I was told under those circumstances then so should those bastards".
Re:" It should be applauded, and not require blinkered acceptance."
To be honest with you I did not get the impression from this article that "blinkered acceptance" was the issue here. It seemed to me, at any rate, a fairly careful assessment of the situation so far. If I have misunderstood something I would of course be obliged (no sarcasm or satire intended, I mean what I say and I have said what I meant) if you would point out where I have gone wrong.
@Martin Re:"......for those of us without hands like gibbons." Indeed, although I have to say....
........that I find a four incher being described as a "mini" highly entertaining. Two years ago it would have been "oo er missus".
@ysth Re: "I have no idea what you just said." I am glad you posted that.
I would have hated to feel that I was the only one saying WTF? Pardon? when reading that.
@AC 29th Oct 12.52 RE "Bob, I always thought that you were the MS shill bubble"
No, he hates Cupertino as well, however he clearly does not mind as long as it is anti-Redmond (whom he hates even more). Hypocritical? Of course, but "the enemy of my enemy is my ally" and all that. It does not make for very honest or consistent debate but hey, who expects that with these issues?
Re: It gets worse
No, what is worse on this occasion is an AC passing off the allegations of a well known Apple fanatic/blogger as if it were genuine news reportage. I am not suggesting that MS are Sunday school boys or that they might not "try it on" in an effort to generate attention, however your link as any kind of "proof" is worthless. Interestingly enough if one takes a look at the thread attached to the article his readers are generally speaking unimpressed - to put it mildly.
@Esskay Re: "I'm curious" It is interesting to contrast Cook's attitude to Cupertino's rivals.....
...........to that of Windows Division head Sinofsky towards his. This from Anand lal Shimpi opening his review of Surface RT:
"A week ago, I sat in an auditorium and listened to Steve Sinofsky talk about the tablet market. He talked about how the iPad was a great device, and a logical extension of the iPhone. Give iOS a bigger screen and all of the sudden you could do some things better on this new device. He talked about Android tablets, and Google’s learning process there, going from a phone OS on a tablet to eventually building Holo and creating a tablet-specific experience. He had nothing but good things to say about both competitors. I couldn’t tell just how sincere he was being, I don’t know Mr. Sinofsky all that well, but his thoughts were genuine, his analysis spot-on. Both Apple and Google tablets were good, in their own ways."
@Psyx Re:"...In a positive an unbiased manner." I agree. There was not a snide bone......
........in the article's body (so to speak). Very interesting to see the reactions of the various test subjects. It does suggest that a) MS ought to put a proper tutorial on board and b) whatever the opinions of a certain proportion of the vanguard of the white-collar techno-proletariat might be the ordinary punter may get on with the os rather better than many have been assuming. However, the proof of that particular pudding will be in the eating - we'll have to see what the reactions en masse in the private retail market are over the coming year before we can draw any hard and fast conclusions about how the ordinary punter has in fact gotten on with it - or not as the case may be.
"........that would require an agreement on standards, so it will never happen."
I'm a little more optimistic. It requires after all little more than the tablet producer manufacturing a powered dock suited to the device concerned with standard ports (full size USBs + HDMI etc). You could then connect what the heck you liked to it. Dell have just launched a Windows 8 device with that sort of setup (don't ask about the resolution though - that just starts me off and explains why I won't be buying that particular device!). However, my point is that such devices do exist and can be readily manufactured by any OEM willing to do so. Furthermore developments within chippery expected next year should go a long way to realising the device you desire.
@toadwarrior RE "sub-par quality tablet full of malware " I say, steady on old chap....
.......even though neither I nor my lady will have Cupertino Kit in the house even we would not describe the iPad in such terms*
*Yes, as a service for the hard of thinking I will underline that I was deploying a technique known as "satire", yes "satire". As a further service here is the dictionary definition:
the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
a literary genre comprising such compositions.
"The article not the OS" I entirely agree that the article is very witty - it also manages to be...
.....genuinely informative at the same time, not an easy trick to pull off. If some people could manage to stop howling for a moment they might discover that the os is nowhere near as bad as they think it is, in fact in desktop mode it is pretty damn good* (although not good enough yet or as good as Redmond are claiming, but when was that new with regard to a Windows release?).
*The touch UI on a suitable device also works extremely well in the functional sense, however, you do not want to hear me on the subject of my opinion of its visual design and the limited customisation possibilities with regard to its appearance - trust me.
@JetSetJim "....purchasing some titles from a .no IP address...." I don't think it is that.
I have lived in Norway since 1998 and I had no difficultly either purchasing a Kindle from the UK site giving my home address in Norway as the delivery and billing address or in purchasing content (using plastic issued by a Norwegian bank) ever since. As far a their regional policy goes it appears to depend on the product. I was recently browsing the Kindle store at their US site from a Norwegian IP address and attempted to purchase a Kindle book from that site. They simply directed to make the purchase at the UK site instead so the issue of purchases coming from Norway does not in itself appear to be a problem for them. What the hell they are actually playing at in this particular instance is, I have to say, very peculiar.
Re: Is the Register sponsored by Apple/Google these days?
Well, to be a little more fair and objective than The Vulture was being in this article it has to be said that El Reg' modus vivendi is to take the piss out of all of the above. You have only got to take a look at the threads attached to articles where the focus is on Cupertino or Mountain View and read some of the postings from the more "tribalist" amongst our fellow members where they are positively foaming at the keyboard over something in the article concerned to see that Redmond is not being especially singled out for a "Regging". Indeed those articles where El Reg is actually being deliberately satirical are often even more amusing given that a fair proportion of the "committed" (and some of them no doubt should be) appear to be satire-dyslexic and end up in the most enormous bate over something that is not intended to be taken seriously at all.
This is what MS have said in response.
"We take this matter very seriously and moved quickly to address this problem as soon as we became aware of it. Although this was the result of a technical error, we take responsibility for what happened, and we are strengthening our internal procedures to help ensure something like this cannot happen again. We sincerely apologize for this mistake and will continue to cooperate fully with the Commission."
" While not specifying damages, the patent troll plaintiff asks for a “reasonable royalty”..........
..........as its minimum claim."
So they are not claiming that they will be subjected to irreparable harm if they don't get well over a billion in damages then? Positively modest in fact. Perhaps they can get Judge Koh to hear the case.
Re: "Never worked well anyway!" I do not have a huge quarrel with the trend towards............
..........slimmer and more lightweight machines meaning that some equipment that has been traditionally built in now becomes a peripheral. I in fact installed a blue-ray player in our front-room HTPC and any ripping I need to do is done by means of an external drive via a USB port. I do however have a considerable problem with snide gits representing the company concerned saying things like "And for those who are still are stuck in the past" by way of brushing off questions about that design decision.
Re: @Arctic Fox "You really think a Samsung executive would say that? Ok"
No, of course I do not. If you did not get from the way I wrote that final sentence that I was being satirical I frankly do not know how to respond.
Not only the Chinese.
What about people in our society who do their gambling based on their kid's birthday dates etc? The number 7 is traditionally regarded as lucky in the UK and many other countries in Europe. Or those (and there are a surprising number of them) who won't take any important decisions when it's Friday the 13th? Numerological superstitions/beliefs (depending on your pov) crop up in a wide variety of ways in very many societies.
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