2067 posts • joined Friday 6th November 2009 05:17 GMT
@bojennett Re: "It's because HTML sucks, dude"
"You HTML5 people... you need to get over yourselves. The fact that you can make it work at all as an application framework is truly commendable. You've done the equivalent of bolting a jet engine onto a bicycle bike frame. The fact that the bike doesn't blow up is awesome - but that doesn't mean I want to ride it."
Do you mind! I laughed so hard at that image that I almost ended up with my breakfast coffee in my lap.
All this seems to assume is that........
..............your interaction with content must be cloud and social network based. Quite apart from the practicalities of the customer being hostage to having a live connection _and_ the carriers data plans in order to be able to use content and facilities on his/her mob/pad, it also assumes that everybody wants to be involved with Twitter, Arsebook etc in order to "share" this experience. How about those propagandising for cloud/web based solutions recognise that under certain circumstances lack of locally installed facilities is in fact a _lack_ of freedom for the punter. Plus a very simple and age old aspect of being human - people like feeling they own something real, "solid" if you like, that they have bought; locally installed apps play to this feeling. This whole cloud/web based shtick sounds like a wonderful deal for web designers and the carriers - where do the customers _real_ interests fit into all of this? Why does it, apparently, have to be either or? Why cannot customers choose between locally installed and web based according how _they_ want to organise that aspect of their lives? Particularly without being told that their preferred solution is "inferior" - just because it does not happen to suit certain agendas.
More patent trolling?
Are they actually trying to patent a genuine device (if so, where is the physical example of such a device accompanying this application?) or simply a very generalised series of concepts intended as nothing more than a judicial minefield for any competitors in the field of consumer electronics? A clearer example of deliberate market poisoning would be hard to find. Apple make very good kit that is deservedly very popular but their taste for using their legal department to dream up schemes designed to cripple any future competition reminds me very strongly of Microsoft at its very worst in the 1990s.
@DT re Penetration of the market.
Highly relevant point. Seems that xbox owners (I am not one) are highly enthusiastic. That the sales of kinect within that market (xbox owners by definition) should exhibit a take-up that can be compared with other best-selling devices which do not require pre-ownership of another device is fairly eye-crossing. What will be very interesting from a marketing point of view is in what degree new xboxes are being bought with kinect and whether kinect will now accelerate sales of xbox per se. The combined package cannot be dismissed as a "100 buck peripheral", representing as it does a fairly significant investment in ones home entertainment system. We will no doubt have a clearer picture of that possible phenomenon by Q3 or so.
Stock is money - sitting there doing nothing.
The issue for Tescos and Asda (or whoever) is simply that they can carry iThingy cases because they all fit the one phone. To meet your needs (and mine - Desire Z) and those of other Android customers they would have to stock a considerable range of cases. However if Android sales are really taking off for them they may well begin to do so now.
Let me see now....
.....if you install this you need ear plugs, several 14 cm case fans, an industrial grade psu and you can also heat the office with it. As far as the private market goes we are of course talking financially well heeled obsessive gamer who still lives in the cellar at his mum's, are we not?
On a general point in this context
A point which applies to all such companies (carrier or producer), ie attempts to create or maintain some kind of lock-in. They all do it, we can all think of many examples and many companies. The common factor is of course the desire to avoid be subjected to any greater degree of genuine competition that can in fact be avoided. All such strategies *whoever* is deploying them are aimed at evading competition without risking a direct confrontation with the competition authorities. In other words they all see OUR interests as the very antithesis of theirs. A thought to be born in mind when one feels the impulse to post defending ones favourite company - whoever they are. The only side they are on is their own.
This will be interesting.
In the developing situation Apple is now (in order to maintain and evolve its position) going to have to be much quicker on its feet than it has had to be in the recent past. The company has had time between each iThingy release (because of the lack of serious competition) to get things right from the marketing point of view. As the pace of development in the market now begins to heat up they will not only have to be quicker, they will be under more pressure to avoids missteps. More importantly from their shareholders point of view the era when Apple could price their products as they liked and dictate terms to distributors (telcos etc..) is likely drawing to a close. The developments in the mobile market (phones and/or tablets) over the next couple of years are likely to make it a bumpy ride for all the majors - Apple included.
I had a fairly positive attitude to this telly........
...........as I read through your thorough review Steve until I came to the bit about it ships with ONE pair of the specs. ONE pair with a TV that costs over two and a half grand? Sammy are extracting a great deal of urea out of customers they expect to part with over 21/2K.
Re Microsoft Staff
"......and should be thrown away with blackberry, symbian and ios."
Now Dear El Reg readers you have a chance to enter our exciting all new competition, all you have to do is guess which OS this gentleman is ast*******ng on behalf of and YOU TOO can be a winner!!
Everybody having fun?
Speaking as a Desire Z owner this issue is not exactly relevant here at Arctic fox Hall but for some reason I still prefer debates with some connection to reality/facts. This problem with the latest update to the update is effecting a limited number of one producer's phones and has, at the time of writing, been reported as a problem by 100 customers so far on a world-wide basis. I.e. the proportion of customers with that OS effected are a small fraction of 1% of the total installed base. Anyone got any figures for what's typical for an upgrade for other OSs such that we can compare? In other words do we know of any OS that always updates without ANY customers having issues?
@Jean-Luc: Re "Lets not shoot the victims here"
Respectfully suggest you check out my reply @Blitterbut with the title "An entirely fair point." There you will see that I had in practice already conceded your central point. However, I do think that people should, on general principles, learn a _bit_ about their shiny. Especially if they are going to use their bank card over it!
@Blitterbut: An entirely fair point.
I was fulminating somewhat wasn't I! Yes, it is of course entirely possible to get caught out by a seemingly genuine app in a context where one does not have a rational reason to suspect something is wrong. Furthermore I would certainly agree with anyone saying that Google have to evaluate how they might improve security in the Market without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It is just that one gets so tired of some people not being willing to think for two seconds when they install something and then starting to howl when it all goes horribly wrong! However, I would not wish to suggest that anyone who gets caught is a prat regardless of the circumstances - by those criteria very few of us would succeed in avoiding the title "Noob of the Year"!
I do not understand what is special about this problem FCOL!
If you visit dubious sites on your pc and download freebies from them you are highly like to end up with your pc being somebody's bitch - maybe your bank account as well. What the hell is different here? The Market is in practice as open as the rest of the net and when you access via your smart phones (whose IQs are clearly higher than that of many of the owners) you are accessing it by means of a _hand-held computer_ FFS!!! Just the same as if you were using your pc. How difficult is this to understand? If you insist on downloading "My Little Porno" wallpaper or whatever and give it various permissions then your arse is going to be grass, end of. I do not understand how it is possible for anyone to be *that* stupid. Before I buy an app (like many, many other owners whose IQ is in fact larger than their shoe size and are capable of thinking _without_ experiencing extreme pain) I check out the company and the permissions the particular app requires _BEFORE_ I download and install the bloody thing. Am I some kind of genius? No, of course not. If I and many other sensible people can manage these elementary precaution what the hell is wrong with these doughnuts?
@Mark. re. ""Microsoft are doomed""
Quite frankly I think many of those who post the kind of "contribution" that so often involves spelling MS' using a dollar sign are expressing what they hope will happen rather than that which they believe *will* happen. There are of course in relation to any future for MS in tablets several imponderables.
1. Will Win8 per se be an advance on Win7 or will it get "Vistaed"?
2. Will the Win8 port to ARM architecture be successful from the technical point of view?
3. Will the UI be any good?
4. Will the compiling of such packages as Office for ARM be successful?
5. Will the devs produce genuinely good apps that run well on the os?
6. Will the OEMs produce genuinely good, attractive and sensibly priced kit to run it on?
All these questions are wholly legitimate and non-contrived issues for debate (they are of course the types of challenges that face all major software/hardware companies). However a fairly significant proportion of the postings we see are absolutely uninterested in the *possibility* that the answers to the above questions might, just might, be yes. The reason is of course very simple, they *want* the answers to be "no" because *IF* the answers are "yes" MS is likely (because of its brand recognition in the market place amongst a large number of ordinary punters) to have a major success on its hands. Given that I neither have an axe to grind nor a crystal ball I have no certain idea what the answers to the above questions will *actually* turn out to be although I am certainly interested in what they *might* turn out to be. We see the same phenomenon being directed at Nokia in other threads from the same "M$"haters/obsessives, they *want* it to go as wrong as possible for the "team(s)" they hate - rational debate about what may go right *or* wrong in this area is not something they have any interest in.
For the record: We run both Win7 and Ubuntu at home and I use a Mac at work, Mm Arctic Fox runs an N8 and I have a Desire Z.
I am not interested in a WP7 phone personally......
......given that I own a Desire Z and am very happy with it. However in the interests of objectivity I have to say that on the basis of the evidence so far (total 5% of WP7 phones actually bricked, all Samsung, and all of them confined to two models I believe?) one could equally well argue that it is all Samsung's fault for being unable to build according to laid down specs. It is after all rather a coincidence that the problem should in fact be confined to a couple of phones from one manufacturer is it not? One could also point out that this is not the first upgrade from an OS builder that has gone wrong for a certain percentage of owners - hmm?
I have to say that I agree.
On the basis of your description Alun and the specs I have to say that it is very good value for money. If our common back-up phone back at Arctic Fox hall, which is showing its age, (the phone - not our home!) does decide to pass over to the other side then this one is definitely a contender.
re Move on. There's nothing to see here.
"Competitor Apple will also show off the iPad 2 tablet, but the difference is that it will hit the market immediately, rather than in 2 years"
Except that it is looking increasingly likely that any customer who is pleased with his/her iPad 1 would be very well advised to wait for the iPad 3 before upgrading. Especially given that the kit is not exactly cheap. In other words it is not unlikely that for all iPad customers with more sense than money (rather than the reverse) purchase of the iPad 2 would be rather pointless. Kit there is no point in buying is as much vapourware (to all practical intents and purposes) as kit that never gets released from the point of view of said customers, hmm?
@JustaKOS Re Might be true
"If he's the sort of bloke who needs to dial out to arrange it, then I suppose his iPhone might come before sex."
Not forgetting *afterwards* as well when he uploads his account of the great event to ArseBook. As long of course as he keeps off the damn thing *during* thus avoiding annoying the young lady too much - mind you if he failed to take that elementary precaution he might very well end up with what we can call a "dropped connection"!
A "physiological" need? "Psychological", surely?
Given *some* (note that I stress the word *some*) of the postings we have seen on various threads here at El Reg from *some* of the iPhanbois I would have thought that the term "psychological" need was more appropriate. Perhaps we should be consulting the works of Freud rather than Maslow? Especially given the displacement/substitution behavioural characteristics the kit seems to induce in *some* of its owners?
@Pigeon Re Foxy foxed!
"Man from mars got you there. This was a very short one, calculated to confuse.
I bet he uses a different name when he really wants to be serious."
My only problem old chap is that I fear very much that he thought that he was being serious!
Re Choice: Cupertino magical reality warp strikes again:
I have always taken the cracks about the Jobsian reality warp as examples of barbed humour until I read your post and realised that The Man From Cupertino really can warp reality for a certain type of iPhanboi.
Let us take the OFF-contract price of the cheapest of the iPhone4s at Amazon: £599
Let us further take an example one of the high-end Android phones the Desire HD available OFF-contract from Amazon for: £375
Are you seriously telling me that it is impossible to get a more reasonable deal for a Desire HD ON-contract than for the iPhone4 (16Gb, the cheapest of the two iPhones) ON-contract when the sim-free price difference between them is over 60%? Because if that is true then Apple has a deal with the carriers concerned that the competition authorities ought to be looking at on the grounds of predatory pricing or Apple is taking a hit on their *own* margins that would result in their own shareholders going absolutely berserk. I do not know what Steve has been feeding you boy but just say no, you know it makes sense.
Re: Choice: Cupertino magical reality warp strikes again:
In my previous post I referred to the Desire HD as being 60% cheaper the the iPhone4 16GB. I was of course typing too fast! What I meant to write is that the Desire HD is 60% OF the price of the cheapest iPhone4 and is therefore about 40% cheaper than the iPhone. That however does not change one iota the rest of my previous post.
@Asgard Re: Why didn't they just quietly fix it?!
They did not dare. That would have been an explicit admission that there was a hardware defect with the original release. I do not believe I have to spell out the reasons why SJ would sooner have gnawed his own leg off than concede *that* particular point.
@Ken Hagan: re "Er, but it *is* that simple"
"The horrendous infection rate within the Windows population is largely down to the fact that most end-users run as admin and willingly run EXEs that they find whilst surfing. Even *I* could crack a Windows box owned by such a user."
Thank you Ken Hagan, that indeed was, essentially, my point - although you managed to sum it up much better than I did. My point, when I referred to the (obviously ideal/imaginary situation) where Windows itself did not make the situation worse, was of course to underline exactly what you point out in your posting. The biggest threat to security is the end-user. Short of attaching electrodes to the gonads of every employee and sending X-Zilliion amperes through their reproductive equipment every time they breach security protocols I do not begin to have any idea how we tackle this problem.
@amanfromMars 1: Really? Fine. Then do us all a favour and......
.....explain in your posting what the hell you mean. Why is my posting "That is very convenient, head-in-the-sand, wishful thinking"? You have in fact said nothing at all other than that you disagree with me. Kindly, without howling, explain why. Your "reply" to my post said precisely nothing other than that you did not like what I posted, what kind of "contribution" to debate is that?
Re Trusted computing and the fate we make ourselves.
Speaking for myself I have no desire to flame you! With regard to the issue of access and who gets it one has to acknowledge that this is the heart of the problem. Let us assume (hypothetically speaking) that MS had produced an OS that was as close to perfect as ordinary mortals could possibly achieve. To what extent would this really make a difference? I do not pretend to have the answer to that but my guts tell that it would make considerably less difference than one might hope and indeed this comes back to what you were discussing. The fact of the matter is that we are all painfully aware that the biggest threat to ones system is either oneself or the plank in the office next door. One is forced to conclude that although we have to keep trying the bullet-proof OS/company system is in the absolute sense unachievable. Unless of course we try and remove the human element completely, what we can call the "Skynet approach" - and we all know what that led to!
Rememberence of things past - or in this case the present.
Fair enough - within the terms as you have defined them!
Not to nitpick and all that but should the headline not have been....
..........."Flaw in MS anti-malware engine *posed* command override risk"?
In other words using the past tense rather than the present tense? Otherwise the MicroDollarSoft brigade might be misled into believing that they had yet another opportunity to log on and begin to howl about the Great Satan from Redmond. We would not wish to expose them to disappointment, now would we?
Sometimes its the perp.......
......who needs protecting from himself!
"If Microsoft had taken 30% every time you ran your credit card through a web site on a Windows PC, people would be baying for blood."
Imagine it? The "I-cannot-spell-Microsoft-without-using-a-dollar-sign" brigade would be howling fit to be tied. They wouldn't just flame the article concerned, it would be a question of towering inferno!
iFanbois do it for free?
There's both a t-shirt and a very near-the-knuckle joke in there somewhere!
The small print in your iLease old chap.
Where its says "you are only renting your iPhone from us, it remains our property not yours".
Don't you just love semantics?
"For years, Google told the world that its search engine was completely objective, and only now is the company beginning to freely explain that this is not the case."
They lied, repeatedly. What else can we really call it? I do not in fact have a problem with the company having to intervene to prevent external attempts to manipulate the search results. Indeed I expect them to do what they can to keep the bell ringers from getting away with that kind of crap. What I really do not understand is their unwillingness to admit it. If they are worried that we will believe that *they' are manipulating the search results in an unethical manner then they have contributed big time to giving us that impression by lying about what they are doing!
It is a strange thing, how a tv program could have that effect.
I still remember the feeling of excitement on Saturday evening in the early sixties as we sat waiting after tea for Dr Who. To this day I still get a faint reminder of butterflies in my stomach if the old Radiophonic Workshop mix of the theme tune is played damn near fifty years after dear old William Hartnell first brought the Doctor to our screens.
There is an awful lot of certainty on this thread.
I do not claim to be a greater seer than the next guy and frankly no idea how this is going to turn out. However, what if Nokia actually make this work? Hmm? A large number of people on this thread and several other threads are going to have to eat a large number of their own words, pan-fried and heavily seasoned to make them palatable.
I am no fan of the fruit company but they are not.......
....idiots. At least I don't think so. The iPad is a premium product - well at least the prices are premium at any rate. Were Apple to release iPad 3 only six months after their "geniuses" were leading large queues of customers in community dancing and singing outside fruit emporia all over the known world on the launch day of iPad 2, customers who had on that day parted with a reasonably large amount of their hard-earned only to discover six months later that their coolness rating had been sent south by the aforementioned greengrocer would be (we shall say cautiously) fucking pissed off. I do not think that The Man From Cupertino can be that stupid. What is Apple's usual sort of release cycle? I think we are far more likely to see something along those lines.
The more that gets parked "up there" (which in a certain sense is centralisation of *your* data in *their* hands) the greater the demands on bandwidth to get it up and down. Given that we are now facing a situation where smart-phones are/will be out-selling pcs where the hell are we going to get the bandwidth on the necessary scale? When the world, his missus and their dog are down-loading high-res video, playing on-line games via their pocket shiney etc, how the hell is the rate of growth of the required infrastructure going to keep up?
Not speak of course of the way that "certain folks" are going to find ways via downloaded apps and the like to piggy-back on that bandwidth with all sorts of consequences for the individual punter, the loading on the system and of course, security.
Speed of development?
Another year and Microsoft's minimum specs will be no more than medium end in the smart-phone market given the rate of hardware development. It is difficult for the producers to differentiate their products *now*, certainly - but in a year's time?
Statements which are not qualified can bite one in the rear.
Although the N8 does not have an optical zoom it does have a digital zoom. One really ought to be a touch more precise.
What this thread has to do with antenna-gate I really do not know - unless of course some iPhans are still so sensitive on the issue that they feel the need to introduce the subject into any and every thread regardless of whether it is relevant or not.
Very interesting acount.
The role of the carriers in Europe and the States in the background to all this was not something (I have to admit) that I had taken fully into account. They would certainly regard it as in their interests for several reasons to have at least three major players in the game in both Europe and the US. It is also indisputable that the only source of such a "third force" was going to be a link-up between MS and Nokia. Whether or not this third force works is another issue entirely - I do not claim to have a better crystal ball than the next chap.
*My* next phone? I'm going to wait and see want Nokia release as that Meego device by the end of the year before I make any decisions.
@The Big Yin Whilst I entirely agree with your assertion that such.........
......companies are seeking to de-rail competition I fear that you misunderstand political history if you believe that such behaviour can be labelled/dismissed as "communistic". It is also as natural to capitalism as breathing to seek to achieve monopoly. Big fishes eat smaller fishes and if and when a Big Fish wins (by fair means or foul) you will have a monopoly. This is of more than theoretical interest because it illustrates the crucial importance of competition authorities in ensuring that we have a genuinely free market. Given the chance Big Fish form cartels, engage in predatory pricing and so on and so forth. Ie The phenomenon known as "corporatism" and if we are to look at political history for a creed that based its economic politics on corporatism I suggest that you read up on Mussolini's Italy or Franco's Spain and fascism.
I agree. The N8 is gorgeous,,,,,,,,,,
..............and the best equipped camera-phone on the market bar none. It is basically a very nice compact camera you can make telephone calls with. In fact I have just ordered one for Mrs Arctic Fox's birthday. You know something? I feel like the main character in one of those wonderful old H E Bateman "The Man Who......." cartoons. You know, as in: "The man who ordered an N8 the day they cancelled the Symbian os"!
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