2067 posts • joined Friday 6th November 2009 05:17 GMT
I think that I am going to wait until there's a stable beta available..........
...............and then dual-boot it on our home-office rig. In the meantime I noticed a *very* extensive preview of this build on a (non-touch) laptop at Engadget. Very interesting and still very obviously a work in progress.
Negotiating from a postion of weakness.
"Nokia, meanwhile, is actually cutting off one it its routes to market. Chief executive Steven Elop, a former Microsoft executive, is reported to have decided Nokia phones in the US will only be available ready locked into carriers' networks and that unlocked phones that let you – the consumer – pick the network you want will no longer be sold."
Translation: The only way the carriers will give Nokiasoft phones any decent exposure is if they are given exclusivity in the US. Currently both Nokia's situation and that of MS in relation to WP7 mean that they have little or no leverage in negotiation with the likes of AT&T, Verizon etc. Nokia has not cut anything off - it just currently has no bloody choice in realation to the US market. The US carriers, given the chance, will do anything they can get away with to ensure that customers do not get a chance to pick and choose. Nokia's current situation means that they can get away with it with regard to Nokia's phones.
I will certainly buy the original three on blu-ray, they are old favourites and.....
..................I love them. However, I will not part with a penny piece for the "prequels" - in fact you could not pay me to take them away.
RE "Can't make a silk purse from sow's ear."
"Intel promises '20X' power reduction with 'Haswell' chips".
Just goes to show that one should not speak too soon although not until 2013 is a bit of a wait.
Another year or so?
"Clearly, this tablet is designed to show off Windows 8 at its best, but it raises the question of how well the new OS will run with less powerful systems."
ARM Socs are getting more and more powerful for the same power consumption and even Intel appears (although a little late in the day) to have woken up.
"Intel promises '20X' power reduction with 'Haswell' chips" (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/13/haswell_at_adc_2011/)
The time when hardware capable of running a full song with choruses os without slaughtering the battery is rapidly approaching. I honestly do not believe that is going to be a major issue. Things are developing so fast that in a couple of years time at the very latest the specs of that Sammy that MS have given the attendees at Build will be regarded as *very* ordinary and as you point out are fully capable of running a full fat os without sweating.
@Uwe Dippel RE "Virtualisation is one thing"
Microsoft are of course recompling Office to run on ARM and yes you will likely have to interact with it by means of keyboard and mouse. Tell me, are you seriously saying that you would wish, for example, to type a long Word document using a virtual keyboard? I personally think that for a lot of people being able to interact as they wish with the os (whether it is by "prodding" it, or keyboard/mouse combination or, yes, even taking notes with a stylus) dependent upon what they want to do may turn out to be a good solution. I certainly think that there are enough of our fellow earthlings who are capable of chewing gum and walking straight at the same time for them to be willing/happy "to learn two different interfaces for the same application." where they have reason to wish to interact with the app concerned in more than one way. It is also in the nature of the "form and function" equation that there will likely always be apps where the one or the other way of interacting with it will be better/more natural for the individual user.
Win7 was launched on October 22nd 2009 making it slightly less than.........
.............2 years old. How did you manage to ramp that up to "several years" after launch? Given that they in fact reached those Win7 license figures at 1 year and 11 months it is just possible that his "guesstimate" is not *that* pony.
Just a few points currently:
"Tap this one, and presto, you are back in the familiar Windows user interface, though this is as frustrating as ever if you try to run apps using touch alone."
Why on earth would you? Since you would surely launch the traditional desktop if you *intended* to interact with the device with mouse and keyboard?
"A critical factor is whether Metro apps will cover enough features so that tablet users will rarely need to venture into the desktop."
They will surely venture into the desktop when they wish to use the aforementioned keyboard and mouse for those tasks which are not suited to touch. For example, a usage scenario: I have my shiny new windows fondleslab sitting in a dock on a shelf in our TV bench connected to our TV via our receiver and I wish to post some more wisdom at El Reg from the comfort of my arm chair. Am I going to use the touch UI? Of course not, I will launch desktop and use my wireless keyboard and mouse just as I am doing right now as I type this.
I note that several on the thread appear to have physic powers inasmuch as they already "know" that Win8 is going to be totally pants. I have a seriously radical suggestion. Why don't we wait until we have actually had some hands-on time with a Win8 build (at least a stable beta or better still the RC installed on a device with a touchscreen) *before* we form an opinion about how well its been implemented? You know, something so seriously cutting edge as *knowledge-based* criticism.
@Syren Baran "Lost in translation"
Thanks muchly. I am grateful and, to be honest, relieved!
Social-tecnological-pigdogs and their fallen buttons?
I do beg your pardon?
RE: "Seen everything now" Ah but you don't understand - this is tech.
That's the whole point. That's how the really smart wife gets hubby to do at least some of the housework - by persuading him that he is using kit. The sort of stuff he reads about at El Reg. That way she can convince him that its not some *girly* thing, instead its something with buttons, flashing lights and it probably goes "beep, beep" as well.
Crystal ball gazing is of course always fun but should be, as far as possible,..........
". Lenovo claims that its rival has only sold 20,000 of the 1 million GalaxyTabs shipped."
Now, as I have said elsewhere, I do not have the "inside track" on Samsung's sales figures but I would hesitate before I quoted the CEO of a major Chinese rival to South Korea's largest electronics company as any kind of evidence. Especially when, AFAIK, he provided *nothing* to back up that claim. In other words it appears (so far) to be a completely unsupported *allegation*.
Furthermore, how long has the original 'Tab been out? A long time in terms of the rate of development and change in this very young market. The current generation of Samsung's offerings in both tab and phone space appear to be attracting *way* more attention than the release of their very first tab ever did. If we want *evidence* that they may make a real impact we could perhaps point to the "lawyering" from Cupertino which borders on the desperate - they clearly do not have a relaxed attitude to the challenge that Samsung's products may pose them. *My* crystal ball is fairly cloudy at the moment and I am content to await events in this, still, very young and immature market.
@Frostbite: Yeah, that seems to me to be key with this.
That the info does not apparently seem to be available right now (I've been working the "magic piano") does not seem particularly encouraging. If it is no worse than current Li-ion batteries, fine, but the lack of info worries me a bit.
Can't make a silk purse from sow's ear..............
.........though interestingly enough Win7 tabs all the same manage about 5% of the tab market despite the fact that Win7 sucks big time as a touch os. That explains perhaps why Fujitsu are bothering to maintain a presence in this segment. It is clear there is a demand, one that I expect they are hoping to have rather more success with at a later date with a Win8 based tablet. It does rather suggest that Redmond's decision to cover both ARM and x86 architectures is not a stupid move. At the moment what appears to be on the horizon from Intel and/or AMD does not look that promising in the context of *tablet* pcs.
Having read this article with growing incredulity I can only say that it......
........it is very clear in this context that of the two ways one can read the expression "smart phone owners" at least one of them is the grandmother of all non sequiturs.
I cannot dispute that you have some point here, however.....
......I pose another question. Ask an average European to name all of the states that the US consists of and at the same time ask an average American to name all the states in the EU. Which of the two groups would do better in your opinion?
@jake "I am not remotely mad at you"
I wrote that somewhat "free-form" and only realised that its structure was somewhat "lacking" after I had sent it in. I only hope that those who read it realise/understand my intention without being to hard on me with regard to my composition!
@Flakey RE "What do you expect"
There is not much I can disagree with in your posting and indeed I feel no impulse to do so. However, given that the majority of us are pretty uninterested in being involved in politics over and beyond voting every fourth or fifth year is it not possible that we, to some extent, get the politicians we deserve? If we would rather 99% of the time think about almost anything else and are definitely uninterested in getting involved ourselves, do we not also have some responsibility for this state of affairs? Might it not at least be a thought worth our consideration that if the "market" in aspiring politicians were somewhat larger than it is at both local and national level then the time-servers and expenses pisstakers might have a much harder time of it? My only point is really that given that we *do* have elections and we *can* throw the bastards out (whichever political flavour we are talking about) is it not the case that *we the people* have *some* responsibility for the current state of affairs?
The two-edged sword.
Modern data-processing and communications technology enables us to readily and easily process information, interact with each other with a speed and ease that has never existed before regardless of distance and see/witness events that we otherwise would only ever have read about and seen photographs of often days after. As recently as two centuries or so ago it might have been many days or even weeks between an event and our hearing of it, or our receiving a reply to that letter we had sent someone. The sheer speed and scale of all types of modern communication has an effect on the impact that the world has on us and how we react to it and events. The mainland US had never been attacked since King George had his little dispute with George Washington and even the attack on Pearl Harbour in Hawaii was something that one heard about on the radio or read about in the newspapers and had a certain amount of psychological distance from. When those planes were flown into the towers on that awful day the *whole* of America could *see* and *hear* it happen virtually in real-time and the impact on the collective consciousness of the people of the United States was enormous, leading directly to what Bush and Cheney could get away with and the pernicious home security industry that grew up in the wake of 9/11. "Everyone" saw their nation attacked, everyone "felt" the impact as those horrible videos (more horrifying in their gruesome reality than any horror film could be) showed the plane flying into the tower as if it were a special effect from a new "Die Hard" movie. The very technologies which provide us with so much information and interaction both facilitated the post-event psychology in the US and provided both government and "BigCorp" with the tools with with which to spy on and control us. We as a species are still not quite prepared for the impact for good *and* ill that modern communications technologies have and will have on us as individual human beings living in a society that interacts at a *mass* level in ways and at speeds that are unique in human history.
@StooMonster "Or use it to explain poor sales"
Now I do not pretend to have the inside track on Samsung's sales figures but I would simply point out that that *allegation* regarding the sales of the Galaxy Tab came from the CEO (Lenovo I think?) of a major Chinese rival of South Korea's leading tech company. I would hesitate before I quoted such a source in this context.
@Len Goddard "Real Soon Now"
I am only a couple of years younger than you Len and I think that I must have read the same book - and I'm chuckling at the memory as I write this. It is rather like the traditional expression my dear lady's family use when they celebrate Passover - "next year in Jerusalem".
RE "They can't sell the things on the basis of price / spec etc"
How would you know? Several of the devices that Apple are firing their lawyers at have only just been released/announced. Apple's strategy is clearly to prevent Samsung, in advance, from marketing *anything* within tablets or smartphones if they in any way can. Thus enabling you to continue to rejoice in your own ignorance.
@AC RE "You guys are funny"
"That would be awful, if M$ ever bring out a decent O/S you guys will have to find something else to bitch about."
Any of us who have been reading El Reg for some time have noticed that a certain section of the commentariat *will* regard it as a disaster if Win8 is any good and the trans-platform strategy is competently implemented.
Re "Brill" Indeed. In fact it is an major business opportunity for a smart dev......
.....to develop a "you can't stand the iPhone crowd?" app. Install our app and you can make sure that you avoid them.
Well now you mention it, Win95 *was* a game-changer.
Whatever one may think of Microsoft/DemonspawnfromRedmond (insert your own choice of insults) Win95 was the os that put a pc in "every" home - in practice it created the *mass* home-computer market.
RE ".........a "suggest a story" option ........"
That I have to say is a good idea. Opens up for more reader-input without (at the outset) risking the "baby out with the bathwater" risk implicit in reader generated threads - although not excluding that option at a later date if it was thought desirable. Suggestions could perhaps be divided between a "specific news items board" and a "suggested topics board". The latter being suggestions concerning what posters here would like El Reg's reporters to take a look at even if the topic concerned is not necessarily a hot current news item.
The head of a regulatory body may very well have his own private opinions.......
............about the qualities of the companies in the industry he is regulating, that does not in principal worry me. However, when he is such a dick-head that he is incapable of keeping those opinions to himself he has demonstrated beyond a peradventure that he is intellectually completely unsuited to his job. He should be removed for that reason alone.
RE "I would have been more interested if Windows 8.."
From what I have seen written about MS' plans with the official mango release it will also include the official launch of WP7 phones in a large number of European countries where, although you can buy the phones, the local languages and access to the app-market have not hitherto been supported. I have not seen however whether or not that will mean wider availability of "Zune pass".
Turf-wars and their consequences
It is fairly clear that Microsoft are moving from a highly vertically structured management with *many* divisions to a more horizontal structure with fewer divisions and fewer layers between them and senior managers like Sinfosky. Looks like someone, at any rate, has drawn some lessons from the cluster-f**k that led to such cockups as Vista and Kin - two classic examples of what you get when a large corporation has developed warring camps where the senior manager in the division concerned is more interested in protecting his own turf than in the company's overall results.
The very first thing their new security chief can do when he is appointed.........
..........is to make it very clear to his subordinates that impersonating police officers is against company policy (at least one assumes that it is) *as well as* against the law. This might also be accompanied by a series of lectures from the company's PR people to the security employees about "personal conduct", "company reputation" and "damage" linked to the well known "career down toilet" concept.
"they have little sense of what they are being protected from"
"[Employees] feel disconnected from the risks of Web 2.0 – they have little sense of what they are being protected from, and therefore respond negatively to monitoring and security measures.
Really? The employees are apparently ignorant of the risks? Sounds like some in-house training courses might be in order. If your employees are that unaware then the management should be taking a good hard look in the mirror because some of *them* are clearly doing very little at work not just the footsoldiers spending time with FB. The workplace culture is the managements responsibility, end of.
RE: "depictions of Jesus are generally OK "
"Depictions of Allah aren't allowed, as any depiction can offend Muslims, depictions of Jesus are generally OK as long as he's not winking, holding a heart, or endorsing any mobile phone that didn't come from Apple."
That actually depends on how "Low Church" the particular se(c)t of Godbotherers is. A number of the very fundamentalist protestant sects take a *very* dim view of *any* depiction on the grounds that it borders on worshipping idols or graven images and the like.
@Sir Cosmo Bonsor RE "Wow"
Yep, I chose not to use the joke-icon because I thought that it was unnecessary - just goes to show.
It is a remarkable thing, the effect of power.
I seem to remember that the "partners" in the present government were very critical of the social-authoritarian tendencies of Blair's circle under the previous government. We can recall their supporters howling "Zanu-NuLabour" and "NuLabourStasi" on almost any and every blog they could log on to. What a difference a year or so makes. The police apparently (we are now told) have the right to shut down public communications without a court order and now we see *this* stuff from the government. We can a any rate conclude that they do not seem any more concerned with personal liberty or fairness than they claimed the previous lot were. They appear to have the same "sledgehammer to crack a nut" approach to social policy as Blair and Straw did - funny that hmm?
RE "Can we have a moratorium on iPhone 5 stories until it actually arrives"
Yes please. When anybody mentions the iP***e 5 out loud these days our dog hides under the sofa and whines - mind you so do I for that matter.
If his rocket can't manage to reach the clouds without exploding.......
.........what about our data?
I'll get my coat.
Re "Streak replacement"
According to Sammy's own website it has "USB 2.0 Host"
The specs in general appear to be rather good.
......and "PhoneArena.com" say explicitly that the USB connector provides both for recognition as a mass storage device and charging.
RE ".too small to be a tablet - hmmmm"
I think that we have all noticed that different form-factors have their adherents (the 7 incher is indeed my personal favourite). That is I think what Samsung are trying to take into account by trying to cover several different areas of the market. There are after all customers who say the 7 inch form-factor is too small and some who say its too big - horses for courses and all that. As I commented in my previous posting I believe that there are quite a number of people who might find this to be a very useful device indeed even though it does not float my personal boat.
I would say just about anybody whose job involves taking a lot of notes, rapidly annotating photographs and viewing documents with a lot of fine detail "in the field" who also needs to make calls, and send e-mails/text messages (a surveyor or an insurance assessor for example?). This device appears to be perfect for someone with that kind of job. I don't need one but I can think of a lot of people who might be *very* pleased with something like this. Well done indeed Sammy - as long as the basic specs are ok you deserve some success with this one.
"Think of it as a scaled up Galaxy Tab 7.7.................
......................a machine it resembles very closely, you won't be surprised to learn."
Ah, right. Proprietary charger and no HDMI or USB then. Funny the OEMs are building some very good phones and such fine examples as the Galaxy S II are certainly making Apple nervous. However as far as tablet space goes at the moment (with certain honourable exceptions such as Asus' Transformer and Sammy's 10 incher), the Dark Lord of Cupertino must be laughing his socks off.
An interesting straw in the wind.
Something is clearly happening to opinion in techspace. As recently as half a year ago a thread like this on this topic would have to a considerable extent been swamped by the dollar-key dyslexics howling about what rubbish WP7 is. This thread however, has considerably more balance. I am very happy with my Desire Z currently but when the time comes I will definitely at least look at which ever high end slider Nokia has released when considering what HTC are then offering with Android.
Levi 501s cost (typically) about 75% more in the European market..........
.........than in the US *excluding* sales tax. Levi-Strauss have been rigging the market in Europe for years. It is about time the European Commission asked "BigCorp" in general to explain and justify the difference between European and US prices and started to fine *very* heavily.
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