87 posts • joined Monday 3rd August 2009 07:26 GMT
linux community is as linux community does
Of course Forrest Gump would have said it his way...
Look at the state of the linux desktop distros and the community has the nards to constantly trash MS over the Windows iterations. /community fail/
Personally I'm getting tired of the community, they need some people in leadership who know what they are doing. Every time I install a new distro I feel like there are a bunch of 14 year old kids writing it and coming up with the "new" stuff. And the community attitude of "if you don't like it f-off and write your own" is the type of attitude you would expect from a 14 year old. The LAST thing we need are even more UI's, which ends up as just more half-baked unfinished crap from other people, and a complete waste of man-hours which should be combined into fixing and beefing up only two or three UIs to what they ought to be.
Unless the community grows up, linux desktop is over for me. I almost never use it anymore since it is becoming a mess.
Perhaps you should have read the rest of my post...
"It is a constructed hypothesis based upon observable and reproducible evidence..."
It is not reproducible. That is 100% false.
Show me one documented and repeated case where scientists have created DNA from primordial slime, let alone then had it "evolve" into a single cell creature.
And the entire argument about "it takes millions of years" is also bogus.
I never said in my post that apples and snakes are the truth, but equally "evolution" from primordial slime or pangea, or evolutionary "species jumping" is just as equally not truth, nor is it "observable" or "reproducible". You've been lied to if that is what you believe.
Who in their right mind would bother with linux desktop, even iOS has a bigger marketshare... :/
I have numerous computers here, running XP, Vista 32/64, 7 32/64, and OSX, and the latest Ubuntu and Kubuntu.
K/Ubuntu gets used the least because its pure crap. I'm still waiting for things to work properly on it, and I've been waiting for many years now...
Get a PC
So play them with "a top of the line CPU+GPU and lots of RAM from the comfort of my sofa" there is nothing stopping you...
There are lots of people who are building i7-2600K 8GB SSD+1TB HD6970/GTX580 gamer rigs inside of HTPC cases, installing Win7, and using a wireless keyboard,mouse and controller just to play games on their 42"-55" HD big screen over HDMI.
I have an HTPC system with i3 4GB SSD+8TB Win7 and it boots quick and gets me into my movies or games quickly. It only cost me ~$800 to build, which is not that much more than a fully spec'ed out X360 or PS3.
These hackers are terrorists and should be treated as such.
Their actions don't make them l33t like they seem to think it does.
@nomnomnom 23:42 - playing devil's advocate...
"the theory of evolution is a religion"
Is it not the belief's of a set of people, who also may practice within the confines of those beliefs?
From the dictionary: "the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices."
Seems to fit to me... and it isn't "science fact" at this time either.
Proper science "fact" requires that it be tested with the same results. So far no one has changed primordial slime into DNA let alone into a single-cell living creature. And panspermia simply moves the whole "didn't happen" to another location. This makes evolution still a "theory". I'm not going to debate its merits here though.
"... he thinks God wouldn't have made an Earth humans could dangerously harm themselves..."
Sounds like he should open his bible once in a while.
Just one scriptural example: Rev 11:18
... destroy them which destroy the earth. (AKJV 1611)
... and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth. (NWT)
That sounds to me like we (mankind) are considered to be ruining the earth in the scriptures...
Maybe he's not that kind of evangelist though?
Also... "God" who? That's a pretty generic word.
@AC 10:30 -- brain dead much?
Did you even read your post? :)
It completely 100% absolutely comes down to people being dishonest and stealing.
Is it ok to steal a car? a home? a credit card? a CD or DVD from a store? clothing from a store?
Where do we draw the line for what is acceptable to steal? According to you, software is ok to steal. Does that include OS, apps, does it move into the territory of smart phones and tablets, ...
According to your logic, we should allow it to happen. With Walmart putting sensors at the exit door, they are just driving up theft. A 10% theft of cars, houses, credit cards, cds, dvds, clothes, etc. should just be acceptable "losses", right?
I'm tired of dealing with clothes tags, them little sensor sticky things inside CDs and DVDs... the cycle continues endlessly...
Who's at fault, What's on second
The fault lies entirely with all of the people who pirate games and software.
If we didn't have people illegally stealing the game and passing it around, we wouldn't have DRM, there wouldn't be a need for it.
And don't give me the lame "justifications" that so many pirates do -- stealing is stealing, no matter how you try to sugar-coat it.
As to how this affects the legit buyers will depend on what system they are implementing. And blaming things like Ddos attacks on Ubi and their DRM is pointing the finger in the wrong direction.
Personally I use Steam all of the time (an "Internet DRM"), I've never had any issues with it at all.
I own a small company (game industry) that relies on multiple computers. Typically I replace a system every 5-7 years. In the past ~15 years I have had only 1 hard drive fail (dies after it warms up). I've never had to use a data recovery center ($500 last time I checked).
There are also a few SSDs in the computers here as boot/OS drives, so far no failures.
But I do have a difficult time trusting them, especially when looking around at the manufacturer's forums, and seeing some of the "sneaky" dealings that some manufacturer's have done.
However, unlike many people, every computer here has its boot/OS drive cloned to a spare drive in the event of a failure. Hard drives are cheap (~$45 for a 500GB) and for anyone with a system worth $1000+, there is no reason not to have a drive specifically for system restoration. I prefer cloning vs raid because of garbage-in-garbage-out problems plus there is no reason to keep the clone powered and spinning.
I still haven't taken the big jump and changed all of the systems over to SSD boot/OS drives due to the SSD price-per-GB and the number of cases of compatibility issues. Give it more time though...
OS files would of course not be included in this cleaning sweep, which DX and .NET are. MFC and MS C++ libraries would also not be included. Those are MS OS and library files, and should be managed by Microsoft for reasons of security updates, etc.
I am also not referring to objects such as plugins that you would find in photo software, or effects/instruments plugins that are in music apps. Those are typically third party and designed to be shared among applications.
Many application developers tend to currently use DLLs for such items as their own custom UI controls, file import/export filters, etc. If you take a look at sites such as CodeProject, a lot of the contributors supply their library as DLLs, and for objects as simple as a slightly modified textbox or button control that is essentially half-a-dozen lines of subclassing code. I have seen companies deploy applications that include twenty or more DLLs, all for minor application functionality, and that should by rights have been statically linked.
The downsides of this are that they typically install them into the Windows System folder, which is completely unnecessary and has numerous implications, and typically they will not be uninstalled if you remove the application, leaving a mess behind of orphaned files and dead registry entries. Or if they chose the same name as an existing DLL from another vendor then stomping will occur. And bad programming practices can result in app failures if the DLL versions are not compatible if the libraries are shared among multiple apps.
Some programmers still (incorrectly) believe that by partitioning the app into multiple libraries, then their application updates can simply replace only those DLLs that have been updated. This is incorrect as almost always the exe will have to be patched anyway. And we are no longer using floppy disks, so an app update of a few MBs is no big deal now.
This same false notion exists if they are using third-party library DLLs, if they assume that the third-party can provide software updates to their own DLLs, well, in almost all cases the company has to re-test their software against the new third-party library, and re-issue a new executable anyway.
Static linking also typically provides faster application execution.
@AC 20:32... a real coward
Wow, I'd really like to know what color the skies are in your world. :p
"Have the school holidays started already?"
I have probably been working in the computer industry since you were in diapers.
"Looks like it."
And if MS decided to kill support for anything but the latest hardware and software, you would bitch about that as well I'm sure.
"This is a good thing, but moot."
Not moot at all. The OP was regarding the OS should be 64-bit, and that's what is sold on new hardware, so it is totally relevant. Another "Fail" for you.
"leopard fully supported G5 processors"
OSX has not supported the G5 PPC models for ~4 years. Anyone who wants the new OSX features is forced to purchase a complete new computer.
Windows 7 will still run on hardware from 4+ years ago.
"perhaps that'd've been a good point to consider switching. Tit."
I own a software development company, I have numerous Wintel systems, Mac, and Linux. No switching is required. And I like tits, especially when they are attached to pretty women.
If I used the G5 (PPC DP 2.3) more I might be inclined to get a newer model. However most of my systems are Wintel and I would probably put the $1000 into that instead. We are looking into possible future support for OSX on our software (game dev tools), so perhaps one day in the future I'll get some Pros.
No canards here...
DLL hell (distributing DLLs instead of statically linking all code/libraries into the executable) is neither a hardware or software reliant issue, at least not since the 1980's when 640k memory was typical. MS wants to get rid of this practice but too many developers are still stuck on it and won't change their ways, but imho should be force to (like Apple did to Adobe). DLL hell is responsible for a lot of the app woes on Windows. It is my only real complaint with Windows and MS.
MS's wide support imho is a good feature, not only for home owners who rarely upgrade, but also for corporations who only replace their network every 5-10 years, and for those industries using vertical market applications. And Windows app support will only go back so far, the people on these forums who make it sound like MS has bloated Windows 7 all the way back to support for 3.1 are completely wrong. Windows 7 basically goes back 2 versions (Vista and 95% XP) with minimal 95/98/ME/2000 support , imho there is nothing wrong with that. Windows 7 supports running older Windows OS versions via VM for those requiring far-back compatibility.
But we are moving OT now...
I feel that your yardstick is the proper length. It also applies equally to the current music industry, where current "artists" are all autotuned and can't even play an instrument or read sheet music, and look at the quality of "music" that we are getting. The same applies to the downward spiral we see in the film industry with almost everything released being a rehashed prequel/sequel with no redeeming quality.
I do realize that software dev is difficult. It takes many man-years and millions of lines of code to produce a typical good full-featured application. Hardware systems are also considerably more complex than they were in the 80's, requiring a step-up in knowledge.
I also completely agree with your list of "requirements". However, I do not believe that those requirements are beyond the capabilities of anyone who has a desire to be the best programmer that they can be. There is also a lot more schooling available now for programming, and massive numbers of books and online repositories of information and examples. Plus most projects these days have a programming team because of the manpower required, so imho it is the responsibility of lead programmers to help and guide those under them.
Imho it typically requires 2 to 3 years of hard work to begin to get fluent in any programming language.
The big problems that I see with the current crop of programmers are mostly laziness: no code commenting, no time spent researching existing and prior work, little time spent learning the OS and graphics APIs, and too much reliance on simply copying someone else's forum posting that typically doesn't include clean-up code or optimal algorithms.
Some of the fault lies with the company admins as they often push programmers for time, with the end result of unmaintainable code. Some programmers also falsely believe though that if they write uncommented or obfuscated code that it guarantees their job security since they will be unreplaceable. I know of one large engine developer who has thousands of lines of code-rot because employees have been fired or left, and no one else there understands their code -- unacceptable bloat imho.
My motto -- do it right or don't do it at all.
FYI: I started out hacking the Apple][+, then programming OS's in assembler for embedded microcontroller systems in the early 90's, moved onto 32/64-bit assembler on PCs, and now program mainly in multiple C variants.
I agree. Quite a few of the other companies that I know are talking about large network/workstation upgrades for next year, which will mean upgrades to Windows 7 or 8.
Same old Adobe
Adobe products are just as bad on the PC. They do too much non-standard/non-API/screwed-UI coding in their software and I detest software and developers that do that. I always cringe whenever I have to install or update any of my Adobe products on my PC. If I didn't have to use Adobe I wouldn't.
I don't have the Adobe problem on my G5 PPC because Apple wants about $3000 from me just to upgrade OSX*... :p
"Or would you rather have all your old apps work forever at the cost of a bloated OS full of compatibility hacks?"
That is an uninformed comment. There would be no OS bloat or hacks if software devs followed guidelines and developed according to the platform APIs and UI guidelines. Microsoft (and Apple) spend a lot of time in creating and documenting proper procedures and guides for developers to follow. Unfortunately, some app software devs choose to try to hack around the API or write "their own" bad code, at times because they don't realize that the actual proper API they require is already there, and imho they deserve to get their software broken by future OS updates. Just do a search on Google Groups if you need proof. I am the lead programmer for a company in the game industry, and I see too many "professionals" who don't know what the heck they are doing and write complete crap.
Personally I give kudos to MS for their wide and lengthy hardware and software support. They have a considerably larger market to please. As a software developer, the only thing I really wish MS would enforce from today forward is the death of DLL hell. In today's world of quad+ 8GB+ there is no/none/nada/zero reason to EVER use DLLs on current software.
*A new Mac Pro starts at $2600, just so that I can "upgrade" to the new 'Intel' OSX.
re Mark65's stupid post
You are trashing MS for continuing to still provide support for older systems??
Microsoft released a 32-bit Windows for a number of reasons including to cater to those people who are upgrading with small systems that cannot take advantage of the 64-bit supported >4GB memory. They are trying to pull the XP-32 people up onto Win7. A 64-bit OS requires more memory to run apps due to larger 64-bit pointers etc., and the thunking and WoW64 have additional overhead that can impact performance on older systems if running the 64-bit variant.
Anyone with a 2002-2005 P4 2GB will probably be better suited to run Win7-32.
It is almost impossible to find new PC desktop systems that are selling anything but 64-bit Win7 preinstalled.
At least with a 2004-6 PC system you can still run Windows 7, you can't say the same about Apple OSX since they dropped all PPC support (forcing me to have to sell my G5 and buy a new Pro for $2500-5000 if I want to run the 'Intel' OSX).
Most OS's are sold to anyone purchasing new kit, so that places the OWM Ultimate OEM (with BitLocker) at around $200 CDN retail (£130).
It is coming...
but I doubt to the Xbox 720.
I work in the game biz, and we are getting there, sooner than many people think, at least regarding the video quality on high-end consumer PC systems. The game play and story is still bad (just like hollywood movies are), and AI is still an under-developed area, however...
Watch these in the HQ version if you have not seen them yet.
Actual gameplay footage from Battlefield 3 coming soon:
Epic UDK promo, games can look like this now if you have the top-end hardware, and if the developer has the money to produce the content:
Current mainstream video card high-quality T&L polycounts are ~2M+ in-game, fill-rate is still a bit low but it is increasing quickly, plus 2GB/4GB+ frame buffers which will only increase with time.
Give PCs five more years (3 to 4 more video card iterations) and near-movie quality video games will be quite possible on mainstream systems -- but the cost to produce the titles will rival top movies which will strictly limit their production and release. Only the select few franchises will produce the high end content.
Gameplay will still typically suck though.
For SSD write lifetimes take a look at:
They have been performing 24/7 writing to numerous SSDs to determine just what type of lifetime they are actually getting in the real world. The results are impressive and interesting. Most of the drives are up past 200TB of writes and counting...
When deployed properly, the average SSD should easily give many years of life writing GBs per day. SSDs *DO* typically live up to their write lifetimes, if the rest of the drive lasts that long, the average computer user will run into other hardware failure or upgrades long before they typically out-write their SSD.
When purchasing SSDs, the write lifetime is not something that I am concerned about since the numbers are correct, it is the other SSD issues that worry me: compatibility with motherboard and OS, the seemingly bad firmware, the high drive controller/memory failure rate.
I am also a very skeptical SSD user. If other computer hardware failed as much as SSDs the computer industry would be in trouble. My company has almost a dozen computers and the only hardware failure in the past 10 years has been one WD 500GB hard drive and one Monitor.
I own one SSD right now, but so far I still have not replaced all of the system OS drives with SSDs just because I don't trust them at all for consistent long-term use without failure, whereas the WD hard drives in my experience are a known quantity.
I'll take that pint now...
@Cameron Colley 12:56
Perhaps you had better go back up and re-read what "everyone above" said...
Then you will see why my comment is relative.
AC 11:00 ...
Bruce Ordway 16:17 "... I can only submit it as a change request to the vendor."
Almost every company I know does not manage their own code and software. A couple manage their own simple database apps usually written in MS Access or similar.
As I stated, most source is crap because most programmers don't know what they are doing, they think that code is self-documenting, or that if they use obscure methodology it will give them job security.
And if you have to rely on a vertical market vendor and they can't fix issues in a timely fashion, then you need to re-think who your vendor is and re-examine why you are paying them money.
Sure, you can perhaps fix some bug you run into in their code, but then what are you going to do when they release a future update that breaks your fix or introduces other issues if you attempt to compile in your fix? You are going to be constantly chasing your tail.
The vertical market tools that I develop are in conjunction with a large global company that provides middle-ware. Pretty much every new release from them to their licensees breaks every licensee's code drop who has had in-house programmers mess with stuff, so the licensees are having to constantly freeze at old code.
To state that including source is a viable maintenance feature for all companies is total hogwash. For the vast majority it is not a direction I would ever recommend.
@Charles 9 12:10
lol you win, eh?
I'll just say this:
Regarding the case and ruling that you linked, I'm betting it gets thrown out on appeal. Software is NOT the same as "prints of hollywood films", it is not "similar enough".
1. Then how come the click-wrap license is still upheld by almost all courts.
2. I'm personally not against people reselling software, so long as either: they never opened or used the software; they sell the entire complete original package and do not continue using a "backup copy"; they inform the buyer and the software company of the license transfer. However, this is too often not the case with used software sales.
3. As soon as you can go spend a $1 on a blank DVD and steal... er.. "make a backup copy" of your car, sell the original car you just bought, and continue driving the "backup copy" of your car, then you will see those same limitations put onto the sale of cars etc. Because this is what we see by a large number of people with software, and this is why we have click-wrap licenses. If people were honest, we wouldn't need any of this stuff: copy-protection, DRM, etc.
@Charles 9 12:02
You might like to try to read my post again, and perhaps do some research first yourself.
When you bought that car, did it come with a license that you had to agree to before using it that stating that you could NOT resell it? I'm sure that it didn't.
Well guess what, MOST software DOES. And when you bought and used that software YOU AGREED TO THAT LICENSE.
When you buy software it is NOT your property. You own THE MEDIA and a right to use ONLY, you DO NOT OWN THE SOFTWARE NOR DO YOU HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO THAT PROGRAM CODE OTHER THAN YOUR RIGHT-TO-USE AS DESCRIBED IN THE EULA.
Purchasing a car and purchasing software are NOT the same thing.
And if anyone here bothered to actually check up on it, all of the throwing around of First Sale Doctrine is false.
You can also Wikipedia first-sale doctrine. Unfortunately, a few US judges believe they make the laws (they do not) and have passed a few cases where they went in favor of the end-user on resale.
Personally I would have no problem with people reselling software so long as they did not continue to use it themselves, but many people do. And many people purchase upgrades and resell the previous version, which is even further negatory.
I do take matter with the thought that you own the software itself though, you only own the media and right-to-use. It's like saying that I bought a movie so now I own that film product itself, or I bought a book so now I own that story.
not so popular...
All of this banter over "haz 2 b free w/ sauce soz I can recompile bugz cuz I'm l33t"... is pure B.S. No offense... or maybe some... ;-)
What, maybe 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the population could even have a hope to fix any code bugs in even the simplest app and do a recompile?
Not to mention, 98% of the source code out in the world is undocumented poorly written crap.
This so-called reason for open source and free source code is pure baloney. I see lintards and open source advocates touting this all of the time, and except for an extremely miniscule amount of the population, no one else cares and no one else would ever use or need the source.
If you or your company are getting stuck with a developer who writes crap and never maintains it, then you or your company needs to rethink their position. And if you are that l33t of a programmer, then why aren't you just writing the software yourself?
Personally, I would rather have my software maintained by a professional, not some wannabe hacker dweeb in the building's basement. Oh, and I am a professional software developer in case anyone was wondering (used to do asm embedded OS's and drivers years ago, now do special vertical market tools and part-time IT)...
c'mon people reel it in...
@Adrian Esdaile 05:08 "Autodesk licensing"
"I think you'll find in the small print that Autodesk own all of your work ..."
Complete B.S. Otherwise Autodesk would own the rights to millions of pieces of architectural and movie fx materials. Which they do not. You had better re-read the EULA or provide proof for your statement.
" ... pay and pay again, again, and again for software we don't "OWN" but a merely paying $7,000 per seat per title ..."
More B.S. No one is saying that you have to purchase the updated versions of any software, whether it be the next AutoCad or Max or the next MS Office. And $7000 per seat per title? What the hell are you buying? An app with every possible addon? Max is only around $3000 US for a new commercial license, usually ~1/3rd that for any upgrade. I pay only ~$500 per year for Subscription and I get EVERY version and update plus all of the Subscription benefits which are numerous videos, training material, addons, special applications, etc. Most people posting complaints on here probably pay more than that every year for their iPhone or for beer.
The only thing you did get right is that you don't own the software, which you don't, which is correct. What this means is that you have no rights to the code or source code, you can't sell it as your own, claim any rights or copyrights to it, reverse engineer or duplicate it, etc. Same as you don't have the rights to Rowling's Harry Potter books if you buy a copy -- you don't have the right to make copies, sell, re-write, claim the story as your own creation, etc. Same as movies, I can't claim that I "own" The Matrix because I bought the DVD, so now I have the full rights to it, that's garbage.
I think too many people don't understand the difference between owning the IP and owning the physical object you bought it on. You may own the Harry Potter book but you don't own the writing itself, if I want to eat the pages or burn it, I can as I own the physical paper. You may own a disc but you don't own the rights to the software or movie on it, if I want to use it as a coffee mug coaster or frisbee, I can. But in any of these cases I do NOT own the contents of the object nor do I have full rights to them. My purchase will allow me the various rights to view the movie or read the story or use the software, but anything else that I try to do may be legally limited depending on the license etc. This includes possible limits on resale, making copies, etc.
@Charles 9 10:56
"So code is different from books, music, and movies?"
Yes it is, if it is standard retail software (GNU, MIT, etc. licenses vary). With software you are buying a license to use the software under the terms of the EULA. You are agreeing essentially to a somewhat-contract when you purchase and install it.
"Last I checked, neither books nor music nor movies are licensed..."
Not all media and digital media are in exactly the same way as software, but the next time you purchase a regular VHS or DVD movie check out the license limitations. You have a limited right to personal viewing only, you cannot rent it, you cannot provide public viewing, etc., etc.; you can only make a single backup copy assuming you do not break the DRM; etc.
With books you normally do not agree to a shrink-wrap license when you buy them. However, some books do have limitations printed on them, especially books that include discs with source code, etc., limiting you from selling or publicly distributing the code, or claiming it as your own creation.
I have no doubt that if it were your authored book or movie or software, that you wouldn't want people exploting your rights to your IP, would you? It's always easy to steal someone else's hard work and money without seeing any impact from it on your own life. I'm always amazed at how free people's morals become when it is someone else's work and it's easy to take or exploit.
All of this information can be easily found online.
Next time before giving me the thumbs-down, check your facts before posting, or provide me with real proof for your comments. :-p
Some people need more of that there book learnin'... ;-)
Note that I am not referring to GPL, MIT, freeware, shareware, or any other variations on software licenses. This comment is referring to the common general retail software license, which is on topic since this is an Autodesk software discussion.
Software is not the same as hardware. It is sold and licensed differently. You own the media if there is any included but you never ever ever own the software. You only have a right to use the software under the terms and limitations of the EULA (End-User License Agreement). You have no other rights with the software -- at all. What you are purchasing when you pay your money for the software is a license to use it in accordance with the EULA.
So if you find a disc in the dumpster, or buy a copy off eBay or from a friend, or torrent yourself a copy, you DO NOT have a right to use the software because you do not have a valid license. The eBay exception would be a purchase from a valid online Ebay software reseller, and none are authorized Autodesk resellers.
Most software companies have licenses that do not allow you to sell or transfer that license to another person. Only a few companies will let you contact them to transfer the license to another party. Before the person who bought the used software can use it, they must contact the company and get the license transferred.
Most software companies also license upgrades with the limit that you own and retain the prior version(s) that you purchased the upgrade to. In other words, if you purchased WidgetSoft 1.0 Full, then WidgetSoft 2.0 Upgrade, you must retain version 1.0 in order to use version 2.0, since 2.0's license is only an upgrade extension to 1.0. This is why many upgrade software installs check for the existence of the previous version. You CANNOT purchase the 2.0 Upgrade and then sell off the 1.0 Full.
Regarding the "I have to open it to see the EULA" is almost always false. Most companies have a copy of their EULAs available on their web site. Also, almost all retail software is sold with a similar EULA so what applies to one software almost always applies to another since most use similar EULAs, and it is usually mentioned on the package that it contains a EULA allowing you to check online or with the company regarding the limitations of the EULA prior to purchase. So you can't use the bogus claim that you couldn't see the EULA without opening the package.
Regarding those who said that you can easily resell games and other software so Adesk is being dicks. Wanna bet?!? Try using an opened WinPC game where the person has already registered the CD Key for online play. Good luck on playing the game. Most will prevent you from online connections since the key is already registered. Go to some of the forums for online games and see how many people have been scammed by buying used copies of game software this way.
"The kind of retard that runs Windows Home Server .."
So you are saying that I'm a retard for running WHS? I guess that's why you posted as AC... :-)
So every FAMILY in their HOME looking for a media and file server would be better off with Amahi which includes such idiotic applications as a Web Wiki, Web BBS, Bug Tracking System, Customer Management System, etc. (these are listed in Amahi's HOME applications, not small business).
What family with children needs this stuff? I guess the bug tracker is so that little Johnny can tell mom about all of the bugs in the apps... As is typical they just throw a pile of freetard apps into a bucket and hope that people use it.
If they really want people to use this stuff, they need to put on a better interface that integrates more into Windows look-and-feel and usability since that is what the majority of home PCs are running. The biggest apps that need overhaul are the file managers. I have a dual-boot system here but I only use Kubuntu for minimal stuff mostly because their file management is lacking by a good twenty years (think Amiga or AtariST level)...
Until the freetards learn that usability is more important than free, they will continue in their single-digit desktop and home server market-share.
@b166er 22:19 "Simple Really"
"No email server = fail"
Even simpler than saying it fails would be to just install an email server, no?
SmarterMail: top-quality mail server, excellent Windows Server and WHS integration, no-cost (free) for 10 mailbox on single domain. Includes language packs, dictionaries, anti-spam, anti-virus, a very good webmail interface, etc. etc.
I have been using it myself for over a year and really like it.
WHS is fine
Typical freetard comments were expected on this one...
@jeremey 3 11:46
That was so fanboi that it isn't even worth reading... total nonsense.
I looked at Amahi, and like almost everything else Linux, it's 80% done and too many hassles for non-techies to bother with. Plus Amahi has the typical freetard attitude on their web site which does nothing but turn many people off.
@Daniel 1 13:08
I don't feel there is anything wrong with the name. I have Home Server on my home network strictly for a file server (much of the WHS toys are off or bypassed). I have also recommended WHS to other SOHOs.
@Simon Banyard 09/30 10:11
"Apple try and position themselves as a premium brand..."
So you're saying that a Mac uses "higher quality" Intel processors and chipsets and other components than what any premium generic WinPC is using?? Sorry, that's a total no.
I can build a WinPC for the price of a full Mac Mini setup and get way more power and flexibility and every bit as equal or better component quality.
Apple charges extra for the brand and everyone knows it.
I do agree with you regarding Sony, Dell, HP and other "brand name" WinPCs though, you can easily spend way too much for those brand-names as well.
I'm not any type of fanboi myself, I look at Apple as just another over-priced brand-name PC. The reason I don't currently own one is because they don't run the software I need.
@Homard 09/29 21:25 "Maybe m$ Is Learning or Maybe Not"
Serious fanboi'ism dude... :-/
"Remember code red ..."
Your best is an almost-10-year-old IIS exploit??
"... you should never be (easily) allowed to surf the net from an administrator account."
You think? Maybe that is why Windows allows you to create user level accounts?
How is it MS's fault if end-users choose not to do so? I can choose to run administrator-level on other platforms.
Try surfing in IE on Windows Server if you think it is that easy.
If MS forceably made desktop OS accounts at user level then people would sh*t all over them for doing that, so they leave it up to the end user to get educated about it. Just like you had to get educated to run any Linux-distro.
"This piece of software they now offer damn well should be free because it is a necessary tool to protect your m$ system (which you paid for) from the holes in it."
What "holes" in the OS? Name me the list of actual OS current open exploits.
The vast majority of malware exploits are targetted at getting the newbie user to install something, which can be done on any platform.
"In the meantime I'll continue using my loyal penguin friend as my main computer."
Good luck with that. I'm glad that you enjoy running 1000 text editors, half-a-dozen packagers, and only a few real serious applications.
Oh, and btw I have Kubuntu/Win7 dual-boot on my Internet system, but I don't get all fanboi-ish about it.
@Kurgan 09/29 18:57 "Windows home server?"
"Why don't they just use Linux?"
As soon as someone in the community releases a home server os that actually does "just work" and integrates better with Windows desktops, then maybe they will... but to think that the community ever will release something like that -- enjoy the really long wait...
There has been a number of linux-based "Home Server" competing products, but many were abandoned, some are still going like Amahi, but they will fail to capture the market for a number of reasons. The biggest being that almost all Linux apps are never finished, and many have poor interface design.
They also tend to use the typical fanboi comments regarding their OS which is guaranteed to turn off a lot of people. For example Amahi has a selling point of "reliable and virus-free"... but tell me who is going to be logged on locally and surfing and catching viruses on Windows Home Server??
@Peter 39 16:09 "I'm thrifty"
I've also been saying that licensed owner's of Vista should get a massive discount on Win7.
But since that isn't going to happen, MS will just have to wait until I purchase a new computer to sell me a copy of Win7. I would replace (upgrade) my Vista x64 system to Win7 x64, but not if I have to toss away my Vista license and pay full pop for 7.
<- pic should be evil ballmer and not gates...
@Allan Rutland 15:55 "But..."
I assume by Server 2003 SBE you actually mean SBS?
And how does the WHS PP2 turn WHS into SBS?? It definitely doesn't in many many areas.
Even without PP2 installed you can still use IIS for other sites, install FTP and a few other apps through the Add/Remove wizard, etc. But the OS license and user accounts are still limited compared to SBS, as is a lot of other missing SBS features (Exchange, Sharepoint, OLSB, WSUS, SQL, RWW, SMTP/POP3, etc. etc. etc.).
I'm running WHS on one of my systems at my house, and it is really nice. Of course I have most of the "WHS family" stuff turned off, and I'm using it more like Server 2003, and headless via remote desktop (NOT remote access). IMHO WHS's biggest downfall is the crappy drive extender system, I just keep all of my additional drives outside of the pool.
@The Original Steve 16:02 "@RW and @GreaseMonkey"
Good reply. Some people just don't know what they are on about.
let the poo flinging begin...
" I don't think any you've listed are in the near/actual monopoly position that MS is."
True, but MS's position isn't entirely its own doing through "evil" means.
Having been working with computers since the late 1970's, I've seen a lot of hardware and software come and go. OS/2 was clunky and IBM is no better than MS as a corporation; Linux has had 15 years to try to come up with something to compete and still hasn't done it; Apple has purposefully priced themselves out of most people's reach.
@Tuna 1 07:08
Nothing personal. The post was just fanboi-ish. The line from your post that I quoted previously is a common example.
"... DID indeed cause BSODs ..."
You are painting the OS with a wide brush, saying that any BSOD or "bog" is the OS's fault.
It is impossible to make totally crash-proof code, and it is not the OS's fault if any bad driver or software causes it to crash.
I can load crap software onto a Mac or Linux-distro and make it crash as well. Is that the OS's fault on that platform as well?
LiveOneCare was crap. That wasn't the OS's fault. And MS has different programmer groups for each software division, so it also isn't the OS division's fault.
With regards to "bogging", if I install Norton or some other AV software that is known to be a hog, how is that the OS's fault? It's not, it's Symantec's (or whoever wrote the crap AV).
Is it then the OS's fault because you pretty much require an AV due to all of the malware? No, of course not, it is the malware writers' fault. There is no 100% secure OS. In this case, the world needs to start doing public drawn-and-quartering of punks who write malware. It is one of the world's biggest crimes where very little to nothing is being done about it. Public execution would be a good deterent.
The way that I deal with all of this is to have multiple computers. I have my work systems that have only the required software for my work. Then I have my Internet and hack computer, which I do all surfing on, so it has AV and can be used to test-install software before I put it on the other work systems. I've been running this way since the early 90's and have had virtually no issues whatsoever.
My 80% IE8 versus 20% FF3 use ratio is simply because I find IE's interface better. FF3 also starts up slower on my system.
Half of the time with FF you have to install addons to do anything. And their bookmark system is wacked.
I tried GC but didn't like it at all.
@Brett Weaver 03:05
" Vista is too slow." "All of these things happen to me on a quad core COMPAQ with 3GB of memory."
Well you must have some other serious issues then. Are you runnig a bloatware like NAV or similar?
I have Vista H.P. x64 on a C2Q-3.0GHz 8GB-1066 system for 3DS Max and UE3 development, and it flies.
It's as-fast or faster than my XP-SP3 C2D-3.0GHz system except for bootup (Vista is slower at that one thing).
@Fred Flintstone 06:48 "alternate reality?"
"Overall: Vista sucks."
I'm one who also disagrees with you.
In my SOHO I have XP Pro 32, Vista H.P. 32 and x64, Server 2003, and Win 7RC. Vista performs just fine.
"DRM: ... yet I have to wait for a computer?"
Maybe you should check what other software you are running or how you are configured. I don't have this issue on any of my computers.
"Office 2007: ... "
For certain application the ribbon "fluent" interface is actually quite good.
Regarding Office I can take it or leave it. If you read the papers by the Office DevTeam they changed up the UI because of toolbar hell. Personally I like the ribbon concept for specialized apps like drafting or modeling.
@AC 1:36 "If any Linux developer had ..."
"Linux devs need to ... focus on fewer distros and make them and the apps that run on them higher quality."
Yeah, like that is EVER going to happen... :-/
Try posting that comment on the various Linux forums or the Ubuntu Brainstorm area, and watch all of the Lintards jump all over you. "Linus doesn't want..." waah waah waah...
Monkeys will fly out of my arse long before the Linux communities get their crap together. Like so many others, I've pretty much given up on Linux distros.
@tuna 1 7:43 "Oh Joy!"
"now Linux can bog and BSOD just like your father's Windows."
I haven't had BSOD's on Windows in ages. Get educated or get out, Linux fanboi.
I have had more Kubuntu failures (1) on my dual-boot system than Win7RC (0).
@AC 8:50 "Too many me too's"
@Gulfie 9:12 "Never"
"Anybody who folds in a ... closed source component into their application/site is tieing themselves to the ... beast"
And Adobe's Flash is different how??
@AC 12:03 "If Microsoft want to stay..."
" I think that Microsoft will be missed by very few and I think that although they have lots of cash that their time is indeed limited."
If MS disappeared tomorrow and all Windows OS's stopped functioning, 95% of all businesses and computer users worldwide would grind to a halt. The world economy would crash.
Try keeping things in perspective. Until another OS(s) penetrates at least 50% market share, we will have to keep our love/hate relationship with MS.
My own final words...
I fail to see why so many people who post on here are so much at-odds or angry against Microsoft when all they are doing is what every other corporation does. Corporations exist to make boatloads of profit and to own a market. Microsoft is doing nothing different than any other large corporation like Nike, Exxon, GE, etc.
It's called big-business.
If you don't like sharks, don't swim in the waters.
Offering "incentives" to sell products is nothing new, and is done everywhere on all types of business levels.
Personally I am tired of all of these big corporations crying that their competition/opponents are outselling them. If they are outselling me, it MUST be anti-trust/monopolizing/evil-empire... waah waah waah
If I could get the gubbment to fine some big company and have them give me a $billion (that I didn't earn), why, I'd be able to do a lot of R&D with that cash as well...
Who loses? The little guy like you and me. Who do you think will pick up that $billion tab? Us, when we end up paying much higher prices for Intel processors.
I'm not on Microsoft's side...
But I'm against the i4i patent. IMHO the patent never should have been given.
So what should be argued is not whether MS infringed, but whether the patent is bogus trash.
IE for me, see?
Personally I use IE8 about 80% of the time and Firefox3 the other 20%.
I don't care for any of the other browsers for a number of reasons, so "chroming" up my IE is pretty much never going to happen.
Not again... :-/
"Free" software is great... except when the programmer needs to pay his mortgage or buy groceries...
And most of the "7 sins" on the FSF web site range from stretching the truth to outright lies.
But what bugs me the most about people like these, is that the free software movement is full of hypocrites -- probably 80%+ of the professional software developers who work in their spare time on the "free software" (such as Linux distros), are working during the day for pay at companies that sell "closed" software.
If all software were free, thousands of companies would be gone, and millions of employees would be out of work and sitting on pogey, being a financial burden for everyone else in the economy. Talk about destroying an entire industry in one fell swoop.
I think everything in the world should be free... we'll all just joins hands and share everything... nobody will work for money...
I must be odd...
It seems most other comments are anti-MS on this.
Personally, I'm for it.
I wish more large web sites who place ads on them would go after those people who are putting mal-ads on. It should be globally illegal with a minimum 5 year prison sentence for anyone caught putting mal-ads online.
@Anonymous Coward 14:48
"...W7 install, I'm sure the world will be shocked to know that you can install on that short time. Again, care to provide proof?"
Installation time of Kubuntu and Windows 7 RC on my Atom-based Internet PC are virtually identical.
Kubuntu is longer to configure overall though since many of its default base apps are junk and have to be replaced with others from the packager.
Oh, and FYI, Windows 7 performs better on this system than K/Ubuntu because it is using a threaded UI -- K/Ubuntu lags like terrible on the UI when torrenting etc.
Sorry, I am correct. How many thousands of actual links on this would you like me to post?
Google it yourself. +temperature +kill +bacteria You _need_ 121C to kill most bacteria.
Trust me, I had to research this a while ago for some specific work.
Why do you think they tell people to boil water? Do you take boiling hot showers?
@Nigel 11 - 9:56 - The only question worth answering
"...what does Windows 7 do for my business, that Windows XP doesn't already do?"
Install the RC and your applications and take it for a spin yourself.
Personally, I find the interface changes increase productivity with the software that I use.
Plus some of the features under-the-hood make hardware installation and use easier.
And the video system has some improvements.
Not hot enough...
For those commentards who stated that they leave the shower run for a minute to get the hot water flowing before they get into it, that does _nothing_ at all to kill all bacteria, that will only kill a limited number of the various bacterium families, unless you like your showers scalding hot...
It takes at least 121C or 250F to kill most types of bacteria (~80%) -- and that is still insufficient to kill all types of bacteria. If your showers are at that temperature you won't have much skin left on you...
Plus water heaters are also stewing pots for certain types of bacteria, so bacteria-laden water is always spewing out of the shower head, which is also why you _never_ drink water from the hot tap -- always boil or nuke (microwave) hot tap water sufficiently before drinking.
If your immune system is so bad that water from your shower is killing you, then you are living in an area with extremely polluted water, and you're going to die anyway...
What MS shoulda done...
Windows 7 should not have been marketed as a full "new" OS. It's not really a Vista SP3 (it's more than that) and it's not really a full new OS (it's less than that).
It should have been sold as an inexpensive *update* for existing Vista users somewhere around $29.95.
On the retail shelves it should be sold as both full (for unlicensed users) and update (for existing Vista licenses) versions.
@Tom 35 22:19
"CDs and DVDs" - that's what a CD/DVD Player connecteds to your TV is for.
"...pre-infested from the factory" - if that's the case, the installer or application itself may have a trojan, so installing it whether it autoplay's-or-not is irrelevant, you're infected anyway.
Haphazardly plugging anything into your PC is no different than haphazardly surfing any web site.
People are learning [usually the hard way] to take precautions when surfing. The same should be done with any other "new" content regardless of where it comes from or how you get it onto your PC.
Blaming MS for the issue [in that autoplay should be removed] when it is ultimately the responsibility of the end-user, is typical "protect me from myself" idiocy.
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