129 posts • joined 23 Jun 2009
Re: Much like tape recorders did I suppose.
"how to make money from the music itself, which (presumably) is the issue"
'Presumably', of course, is the key word here, is it not? I do not see why a musician should care in the slightest how his money is earned - advertising on radio/streaming services, selling merchandise, live shows, or whatever else the future might bring - they all indicate that people like his music and want to both listen to that music and relate to him.
Making money by 'selling' a song as though it were a bag of carrots seems to me to be mostly in the interests of the grasping middlemen who neither create music nor have fans who want to buy t-shirts with their faces on. Real musicians should be delighted that the internet enables them to shake these parasites off their backs, enabling them to connect directly with those fans who want to connect with them.
"how can we flog crap with our band name on it?" Easy - build up a fan base that wants to spend money on such things. Then get off your arse and go and play in their towns. And as they all troop out of the venue flog them a DVD or digital download of the show, and a few other mementoes. "Exit through the gift shop", as those who understand these things might say.
Here is a thing: I would have loved to have gone to see Leonard Cohen when he played in Auckland recently to rave reviews, but could not make it for various reasons. Afterwards I thought I would buy a DVD of the show to make up for missing it. Very likely there were thousands of others in NZ, and possibly millions worldwide who thought the same thing. So how do you think I got on with this apparently simple wish?
Much like tape recorders did I suppose.
"the internet will suck the creative content out of the world"
My son was recently told at school that most of the jobs that will be available to him when he leaves have not been invented yet. It seems to me the same can be said of ways for artists to monetize their work on the internet. As long as the inventors ignore the sort of drivel spouted above. Which I am sure they will.
Anyone else remember payola? When the pop music bosses paid slush money to the equivalent of Spotify in return for advertising their songs.
Re: RE: Men in dresses
They see women wearing dresses not men, so a man in a dress is odd, and from the few i've seen in a dress, they look damned odd...
I saw a few wandering down a street on a CCTV once, just as they came across a drunken moron who, thinking they were transvestites, decided to beat them up. Sadly for him they turned out to be professional cage fighters going to a fancy dress party.
So, to go back to the article, things are not always what they seem.
... said the spider to the fly
Those without their heads in the sand can see exactly the same thing going on much closer to the English Channel.
PS This was a reply to @Graham_Dawson's comment "Want to know a funny thing" - don't know how it got here. However, it sits quite well after the Russian thing.
Re: Harder to make a living?
Free access to:
-- gazillions of pounds worth of global marketing and publicity
-- a zillion pound worldwide digital distribution system
-- gigazillions of pounds worth of free technical advice
-- a captive audience of literally billions
HOW is this a good thing for a poor struggling musician trying to publicise his work?
Re: Beep beep - Governments representing us?
Is there any evidence for the assumption that governments have ever represented the people? I suspect this is highly doubtful. This is the old saw about 'is crime rising or is it simply being reported more openly?'
While the internet has the power to enable particularly corrupt gangsters like American Big Media and its lackeys in the US government to control the world in order to slake their own mindless materialistic greed, it also enables us the people, courtesy of the likes of Wikileaks, to expose and damn them. It should also enable us, courtesy of the many exceedingly clever people the internet lets us connect with, to defeat them.
There is a story in fairy-tale land about 'killing the golden goose' which should be instructive to us, trying to deal with an organisation so consumed with and blinded by greed that it cannot think rationally. The MAFIAA's golden goose is us - we, the people. We are the ones who lay its golden eggs, and if we stop doing so it will wither and die. If we don't, it will be our civilisation that withers and dies.
If some crappy video of a farting cat can get the interest of millions of people, surely some clever folk can produce a meme to fill the public with such revulsion for corrupt American Big Media that millions will be persuaded to stop buying from it. Then perhaps, like the proverbial phoenix, real art and creativity can be encouraged to rise, above the ashes of the current grasping, sickening dross. Remember the Ratner story.
A massive, world-wide boycott of the next blockbuster movie, which smug MAFIAA bosses confidently expect to give them a financial orgasm, would send a useful shot across their bows. Big Media is hellbent on turning us all into literal slaves, trapped forever in terror of "stealing' some thug's copyright whenever we open our mouths. It has to be stopped. Is this the sort of 'civilisation' we want to pass on to our children?
"Daddy, was it you lot who handed these bastards control of our world?"
American Big Media running school brainwashing campaign
A school system officially peddling insidious, manipulative propaganda from a despicable, money-grubbing cartel that is barely distinguishable from Organised Crime? Every corrupt social blight in the US must be rubbing its hands in glee at the prospect of these floodgates opening for access to the malleable minds of little children.
"Just sign that cheque, sir; I'll fill in the amount. The classroom is first on the left."
How do parents feel about schools using their children as commercial cannon-fodder?
That this is being taken seriously enough to actually discuss simply beggars belief.
Like an intermittent high tension leak from a sparkplug
Yes, wouldn't disagree with that, other than to observe that, theoretically, if one knew every tiny factor that influences the oncoming weather one could, theoretically, predict it with precision any time into the future. In practice we never know every tiny factor so can only make a best estimate, and try to prepare for other possibilities. As a long-time offshore sailor I have spent many hours doing exactly that.
I think the same applies to Google's systems. Accumulations of microscopically small, unforeseen inaccuracies can at times cause the system to make a decision that the programmer would not expect. But, as clean_state said in response to your earlier post, there is nothing weird or biological about that. It seems more akin to my car running slightly rougher than expected because of an intermittent high tension leak from a sparkplug.
Is the weather alive?
As a layman it seems to me that this system's behaviour is not 'unpredictable', just not currently completely predictable by Google. Someone earlier compared it to meteorology. This, again, is not unpredictable; it simply has so many complex factors affecting it that even the best of human weathermen are currently unable to fully predict the precise resultant effect of them all.
To infer from this that the system is 'alive' is on a par with claiming that the weather is alive. Even calling it weird seems a big stretch. Which is not to say that we should be any less concerned about the potential dangers of such immensely powerful and currently unpredictable systems than we are about the potential dangers of immensely powerful and currently unpredictable weather.
Re: A car maker's nightmare - The Ford Faggot
And here is an American's take on it, complete with:
"Yoni photographic transfer on a Volkswagen hood attains a level of pictorial literalism that may preclude the automobile’s use as a kindergarten taxi".
Which may amuse some readers. He can even sell you a book about strange words.
A car maker's nightmare - The Ford Faggot
I believe car manufacturers spend millions on research to avoid such marketing mistakes as designing Ford Faggots in Britain then advertising them in America. I can't be bothered researching now but I believe there have been a few hilarious mistakes over the years. Look here:
If you are currently driving to Spain in your Mitsubishi Pajero, turn round now.
"It was "smygfilmat" - i.e. a hidden camera"
Am I the only one who read this in an earlier post?
Can't read Swedish so cannot check the link. However, as others have said, if it is true then it deserves a lot more than a slap on the wrist and a fatuous judge's comment to the effect that "teens will be teens".
The best fertiliser is the farmer's wellies
Perhaps these managers should be sent to agricultural college, where apparently they are taught that the best fertiliser is the farmer's wellies.
Re: Obama still not strong-arming, then, I see
"Interestingly enough even the semi-literate, gay bashing asshats at Fox News had the class to say 'Greenwald partner' not boyfriend or lover in their articles..."
Er, why is this interesting? Or classy?
Would you have made the same criticism if the journalist had been a girl?
'Avaricious gangsters controlling USA rule peasants with terror'
'Boyfriend of journalist involved in release of classified information NOT stopped in airport while travelling with laptop on trip financed by journo's newspaper'.
Really? Who was sacked over that negligence?
This is just a symptom. The sickness is in the title. These Americans do not see terrorism as foreigners inflicting terror on their people, but as an excuse for themselves to inflict terror on their people. Just like the street-corner gangsters they emulate. "Nice life you've got here. Be a pity if anything happened to it."
The Statue of Liberty should be done under the Trade Descriptions Act.
Re: Physics can disagree all it likes ...
I believe the original poster was making the point that 'having the right to bear arms' is, in truth, likely to place you in greater danger from the US Government than not having it, due to the ease with which it can justify shooting an armed man. A cynic might therefore conclude that it is in the interests of the US Government to encourage the bearing of arms, as it is then easier for it to kill off nuisance people without its corporate pals losing money due to the neighbours disgustedly taking their business elsewhere. This would undoubtedly make the corporates 'happy", and I expect they would pass some of that 'happiness' onto the Government..
Physics can disagree all it likes ...
... but it will not be physics that gives the order: "Shoot to kill these dangerous armed crazies who are trying to destroy our wonderful country" - an order less likely to be savaged in Court than "Shoot to kill these unarmed old grannies on their way to Bingo".
So, yes, shooting armed citizens is morally and legally very easy. A cynic might believe that the US Government is quite happy with that situation.
Dr Who's flippancy should be a front, not a character trait
Well, if it is another ADHD 11 year-old with a Lego screwdriver and the intellectual depth of a greenfly larva I shall, sadly, have to give it a miss again.
Unless Mrs Who appears, of course.
An American seeking Political Asylum in Russia? You couldn't make it up
"Seriously, if people run away from your country and ask for asylum in China and Russia, something went horribly wrong"
I recently read a comment somewhere about American 'justice' in response to someone saying that in civilised countries you are considered innocent until proven guilty:
"In America you are considered guilty until proven rich"
Snowden get a fair trial in America? I certainly wouldn't put my money on it. I don't know much about Carter but "America has no functioning democracy" certainly gels with my reading of the news in recent years. The people running that country exhibit the mentality of street-corner gangsters.
The artists may be paid a pittance but I doubt their owners are
"the recording royalty is returned to the record company and those details are under NDA"
My teenage son uses Spotify all the time now that he is in a city with fast internet. I am sure the very notion of 'owning' music will disappear quite soon due to such streaming services. Instead of manipulating millions of impressionable teenagers into parting with cash to 'buy' songs, pop singers will now have to deal with streaming services, apparently largely owned by their own record companies.
"Some of the world's largest music companies are among the owners of Swedish streaming music service Spotify, with the record labels buying their shares for a pittance, according to financial documents obtained by Computer Sweden" -- PCAdvisor - 2009
And try this for a discussion of vested interests: will-artists-be-paid-if-spotify-goes-public
Same old criminals collecting the dues then. And all for an investment barely more than the cost of a new tea trolley. Despite the deceptive headline, Spotify as such is not the artist's enemy here.
Re: @James I like Gin in one, and only one, place. -- and no guns!
Chickens and eggs come to mind. Perhaps New Hampshire doesn't feel the need for strict gun laws if it has civilised people living there.
Having said which, it seems clear to me that the problem with Americans and guns is not legal but cultural - they seem to worship violence in any shape or form, the more sadistic the better; and appear at the same time incapable of distinguishing between real life and Hollywood movies. Throw in easy access to guns and you have a lethal combination, as many schoolchildren discover every year. I bet the survivors would like to live in a country where the future of gin and tonic is more perilous than the future of yourself.
Re: Accusation should not equal guilt - except for copyright infraction
It is also worth noting that, as far as I know, the only people in this ludicrous and disgraceful debacle who have been found guilty of any illegal behaviour are those who attacked Dotcom. The NZ authorities were clearly fed a farrago of lies by the US government and instructed to 'put the frighteners on him' by staging a farcical Hollywoood show when apparently all they had to do was phone the Diplomatic cop in the mansion and he would have opened the door for them; but since then the country has redeemed itself noticeably by its fair and just treatment of the man. And however shady his past, or fat his stomach, he deserves the same justice as anyone else; or the country concerned is not fit to lick even his boots.
But then the NZ government is presumably not being paid by those whose corrupt and lucrative business model is seriously threatened by his entrepreneurialism.
“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: And I'll strip their wallets like a heartless whore”
What a horrible country. I wouldn't hand over my worst enemy to them.
We don't need no 12 foot lizards for a conspiracy
We are expected to believe that an organised mob of the richest and most powerful businessmen, bankers and politicians in the world does NOT meet to work out a way to run the world solely for their own benefit?
These people must be delighted to be called '12 foot lizards from Space', 'Illuminati from the 15th Dimension', 'The Bilderbergers' and suchlike as it makes the mass of the populace laugh at the notion of a conspiracy; when in truth there quite clearly is one - the rich and powerful conspire to subjugate the masses in order to increase their own wealth and power at the expense of the masses. And there they all are - in Watford (presumably not at "Watford Gap, grease on the plates, it's a load of crap").
These people effectively already virtually rule the world, so the potential for them to morph into a 'New World Order' seems self-evident. It is a shame Dr Who has spent the last fours years as a demented adolescent on Speed, or he might have been able to do something about it.
Re: 12th? Dr Song?
This was supposed to be in reply to Mycho further up the thread.
Re: 12th? Dr Song?
Perhaps it will enable him to regenerate as a sharp, sexy, fascinating, highly intelligent woman, which will make a refreshing change after four years as a babbling, witless, teenaged American Soap Opera Idiot.
Re: New Dr - "might as well have cast a sperm in the role"
Quite. As a wise, deep-thinking but eccentric 900 year-old Time Lord he would make a very good spoilt teenage brat on a moronic American family sitcom. Throw in the ludicrous 'prepubertal' Pond and the show became totally unwatchable for me. I had hopes for Clara as she seemed interesting, but has so far acted like Pond playing the Cheshire Cat. The recent sighting of the truly wondrous Mrs Who has persuaded me to watch again; perhaps she will return now that her husband's Babbling Teenage American Idiot phase is finally over. Whatever replaces this please let it be a Doctor with depth and edge and intellect. And properly eccentric rather than just fatuous.
Or has this whole period been a sort of 450 year flashback to the Time Lord's Medallion-Man Mid-Life Crisis, and I have completely missed the subtlety of it?
Re: Hey Grandad, my pal Jimmy says ...
I was referring to my grandchildren referring to these days as 'the old days', in the fond hope that their generation will rid themselves of the parasites currently trying to wrest control of the internet from the people.
Hey Grandad, my pal Jimmy says ...
... that in the old days the internet was controlled by American gangsters and corrupt governments. That can't be right, surely? Is that why my teacher calls it the Second Dark Age? A second era of "cultural and economic deterioration" that accompanied "a period of low activity in copying"?
She said that in those backward days people were so stupid they could not understand the difference between digital patterns flashing across the internet and plastic discs carted around in trucks. She was laughing so much she could hardly get the words out.
Was it really as horribly stupid as that, Grandad?
It is just musical chairs
I think it is a mistake to get too complicated about the banking system. In the final analysis it is just financial musical chairs: it matters not how few chairs there are (deposits) as long as the music keeps playing so that everyone does not want to suddenly sit down at the same time (withdraw their deposits).
If you want lots of ordinary folk to be able to dance round the chairs buying houses and setting up businesses and generally keeping the economy vibrant, you should forget the chairs and concentrate on playing the music. Eventually everyone will realise that we don't actually need chairs (money) at all, just music.
Re: Consume this. -- and this, and this, and this
"There's more consumption than ever, but the value isn't being captured." -- What a hideously corporate phrase. Says it all, doesn't it?
"Take that, freetards: First music sales uptick in over a decade" -- Er, what? Are we looking forward to a reasoned article here? Sounds more like a cry from the dunce's corner of the nursery. Watch out for the flying Lego bricks.
Music lover ....... Musician. The internet joins the dots directly for us now. The corporates can go back to selling insurance scams to vulnerable old ladies, or shovelling tarmac onto their perfectly satisfactory driveways.
Re: Stop the tea party [break out the beer]
Balance comes from having lots of different people with lots of differing views, not from one sanctimonious twat who thinks he knows it all. I believe the old Soviet government used to run a newspaper called 'Truth'.
And I knew an old sailor who swore that the reason the weather is getting windier is that there are fewer sailing ships in the oceans sucking it all up.
And I believe windmills are so unreliable they have to be backed up by coal-fired power stations constantly running in highly inefficient standby mode, probably producing more atmospheric pollution than if they just ran full power and produced the electricity themselves.
And as for an energy source that can apparently power the whole country from the contents of a cup of tea, and has killed fewer people over the years than crazed donkeys on the way to the airport - who needs that?
Re: copyright laws are now anti-public
"You think with no copyright everyone is going to share your work more? Why?" -- Because they can, they might.
"Generally speaking criminals don't imprison people" -- Really? You must live in a nice place.
I never said my lack of repute as an author was due to copyright issues. I merely made the point that I am a lowly peasant and not some rich artist who cannot bear the thought of anyone experiencing his work without paying him, even decades after he produced it. As others have said before, my plumber does not bill me every time I flush the toilet, yet to a rich singer with water spraying all over his million-dollar mansion at two in the morning a plumber is probably more precious to him than a platinum disc.
In the final analysis, it seems clear to me that the current copyright regime can only be maintained through ruthless, dictatorial control of the internet by the American MAFIAA, and I am sure few here would think that a good thing. Even with such a global dictatorship I see no possibiity of the thugs stopping people sharing digital information. Therefore copyright needs to be changed, and abolition is a bold change that I, and others, think would be of long-term overall benefit to the majority of society, because it would create a fresh starting point for new concepts. The MAFIAA may not have grasped that the world has changed since the 1950s, but I think most others have.
Re: copyright laws are now anti-public
Free Online dictionary #3 gives us "greed that subsists on live prey".
Re: copyright laws are now anti-public
Yes. Personally I have come to the conclusion that copyright should be abolished totally, and a replacement system allowed to evolve naturally. Anything, but anything must be better than the existing system, which has managed to degenerate into little more than a government sponsored extortion racket run by and for American organised crime.
Interestingly, I think that is exactly what is actually happening right now. Filesharers have effectively taken it upon themselves to abolish copyright, by simply making it unsustainable; and intelligent artists are beginning to find some very interesting ways of capitalising on the emerging free market. I read the other day that at any one time there are more people using BitTorrent than Youtube and Facebook combined. One would expect intelligent businessmen to see enormous potential for profit in such a situation, yet all the copyright cartels can see are ever more people to sue, threaten, extort, imprison and generally make life-long bitter enemies of - the typical behaviour of pea-brained criminals.
Only those whose brains have become completely addled by rapacious greed could possibly be too stupid to see the incredible market potential of file-sharing - which can only exist legally in the absence of copyright. And I speak as a professional author of negligible repute, but sufficient brain to see that the absence of copyright is more beneficial to me than the existence of it. For us ordinary peasants at the bottom of the heap, obscurity is the problem, and file-sharing the solution.
PS - I refuse to use the word 'pirate' with its ridiculous and manipulative connotations.
Why was he 'let off the hook' by the MAFIAA?
Can someone explain to me why the Americans, not exactly known for tolerance of anyone who might conceivably reduce the income of the MAFIAA cartels by $1-50 per year, have effectively back-pedalled mightily and let him off with a metaphorical slapped wrist? On past performance one would have expected at least 300 years in jail and his first-born impaled on a stake. I am genuinely mystified. Can anyone enlighten me?
I was about to cynically add: "Is he safely back in the UK yet?", but then I realised, with infinite sadness for the country I grew up in, that he clearly wasn't 'safely in the UK' to begin with.
Re: Why did he pay?
I have heard it suggested quite rationally that he was paid a large sum of money under the table by the MAFIAA to do it - he would then appear to be accepting fault and atoning; and aren't they generous letting him off with half the bill, even though that means the artist starving for another month.
A part of me is quite reluctant to discount that possibility. If the father had gone for their jugular and succeeded, it would have opened the floodgates for others. Even if he had failed, the publicity would have galvanised the public into yet more loathing of these criminal scum. Their despicable bullying of a little girl did not win them many friends.
As it is, the whole thing will sink within a week, and the general public will believe that paying extortion money to known gangsters is acceptable, the 'ownership' of a pea-brained pop song is more important to humanity than the cultural development of a little girl, and they must not show their noses on the internet without asking permission from the MAFIAA Bosses.
"extortion by a fancily named gang of racketeers" -- yes, no question. And one more step on their road to total control of the internet. Well worth what it cost them; which was clearly a great deal more than what they 'earned'. This intimidation and thuggery has nothing whatever to do with copyright as such, it is a ruthless campaign by the MAFIAA to take control of the internet and turn it into a monopolistic 'pay-through-the-nose-per-view cable TV channel'.
And their political pals are riding on their backs hoping for some autocratic crumbs to help them oppress the people. A conspiracy? Oh, yes, I think so.
The failing business troubleshooting technique
Some years ago I read about a man who worked as a troubleshooter for failing businesses. His technique was simple: Sack all the middlemen managers, then sit by the phone with a cup of tea and gradually re-hire the ones who seemed to be actually needed.
In this particular case, where the failure is clearly caused by greedy middlemen stealing from both parties, stamping on innovation and bribing governments to pass repressive laws, a system should be devised to bypass these parasites and enable artists to connect directly with their fans and develop new financial arrangements to benefit them both. It could be a sort of network between artists and fans, perhaps with a snappy name like "The InterNet" or something. Any sacked middlemen who offer a genuine contribution to this can be re-hired. The rest can be bid 'good riddance'.
Re: Correct - This is NOT a US case :: Britain should protect its own
"The implications of this is that we are all now subject to US law, and the courts are interpreting this as superseding UK law."
This is very worrying. The sole purpose of a government should be to protect its people from harm. If it cannot be relied upon to do that then it is worse than useless. A government should itself deal with those who transgress, not throw them to slavering political dogs abroad. Extradition should only be for foreigners hiding from their own governments. And even then ...?
I used to live in a place dubbed The Sanctuary, where at one time anyone in trouble with the authorities could take shelter and protection provided by the Church, for whom people were more important than earthly laws. Within the sanctuary all efforts were directed towards helping them onto the right path. Perhaps it needs to be resurrected. It is hard to believe that Mankind will be bettered by folk such as these being thrown to the venal, vindictive, sadistic politician/media-baron dogs in America.
Re: Successful artists subsidise the less successful
Yes. My local plumber does much the same thing. He buys all sorts of different toilets that customers might want. Some sell lots, some sell a few and some sell none. However, like pop singers, they are all bought and paid for and can sit in the corner of the shed until perhaps one day someone wants to buy one. In the meantime the storage costs him little to nothing and it registers as an asset to his company.
Why such an elementary business practice should be mysteriously elevated to the status of a divine Robin Hood Socialism when carried out by Record Labels, only Orlowski and his '40% of the gross' pal seem able to understand. The rest of us peasants can only gape in awe. Such an extraordinary grasp of the mystical complexities of the Universe is a gift indeed.
Re: Oh dear... -- Oh, very dear indeed
I suspect Obama is well aware that the Eurozone 'crisis' is going precisely according to plan, enabling the EU bosses to force the affected countries into complete economic and political subservience to the EU bosses, so they can construct a powerful European superstate that will relieve the US of the expensive and increasingly unpopular task of bossing the rest of the world about.
I am sure his pals in the MAFIAA wish that their plan to destroy Dotcom's impending competition for their global, and extremely lucrative extortion racket was going even half as well as the EU's plan to destroy democracy. And I suspect they are less than pleased with the US government's hamfisted handling of what their street corner gangster mentality probably saw as a straightforward 'shut up peasant, we make the rules here' shakedown.
I suspect the US government is mindful that while the Eurozone crisis will likely save them a lot of money and heartache, the Dotcom crisis could cost them dear indeed.
This whole business stinks
I don't think one needs a particularly sensitive nose to feel that this whole business stinks. I read somewhere that the Americans want to charge him with treason or something, which carries a potential death penalty, and apparently Britain will not extradite someone to face being executed, whereas Sweden will. I cannot remember where I read this and am prepared to stand corrected, but, if true, it could certainly explain quite a lot.
I think it is naive to believe that the Americans do not want to destroy Assange as publicly and frighteningly as possible, to act as a deterrent to anyone else who wishes to expose their peccadilloes. This is the standard gangster mentality that seems to drive the actions of the US government these days.
A pyrrhic victory?
If this produces the snowballing PR meltdown for Apple that some are predicting, it will make Samsung's billion dollar payout a cheap investment for them. Apple's business is strongly based on being 'cool', and greedily scrabbling around sueing everyone in sight for making a phone that looks like a phone is not likely to be seen as very 'cool'. It is the sign of a loser.
A winner would have turned the 'copying' to their advantage with adverts encircling their logo and quietly telling customers to 'spot the genuine original'. Or similar. Rather than showing such naked, vindictive fear of competition.
Ironically, after initially laughing out loud at this typically patronising Orlowski PR stunt, I think he may well, quite by accident, be correct in saying that "the verdict is good for you, your kids and tech". If it helps to bring down the oppressive, control-freak monolith that is Apple.
The public is probably not so ignorant
I suspect the reason for the public's apparent disinterest is really quite simple:
1 - There is clearly no definite proof that anything catastrophic and irreversible is happening.
2 - If such a thing does loom, they believe that battling forward to an inspired solution is likely to be a better option than crawling back to the stone age.
The public is probably less ignorant of the wider issues than the hysterical doomsayers. I think history shows that mankind is actually rather adept at putting right its mistakes.
Re: [Citation needed]
"You're doing exactly what the numpties did here:
'Don't care if you inspect farmers - STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING'
He certainly is not. veti made a perfectly valid point, clearly based on knowledge of the subject: "The Commission's argument for keeping it in is basically that it won't make any difference anyway, which seems to me a stronger argument for taking it out", and this fatuous, irrelevant gutter press 'story', with a puerile, obnoxious jibe that is obviously untrue, is your carefully considered response as a professional journalist? Are you merely an idiot, or did you train with the MAFIAA?
No wonder ACTA was slung out if this is the best argument its frothing disciples can muster against a careful, rational observation such as veti made. I think you owe him an apology: this is not robust debate, it is childish spiteful rubbish, and there should be no place for it here. However upset your media pals may be.
Frankly, my chickens could have knocked up a better-constructed, more balanced piece of journalism than you have produced on what I am sure the general populace, worldwide, sees as a rare triumph of democracy. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Re: Better legislation to appear
Yes. As Paul Shirley shrewdly noted, the loopholes are invariably deliberately hidden somewhere so that those in power can utilise them should the need arise. The EU seems to be particularly skilled at this, churning out War and Peace screeds of such incomprehensible gibberish that no-one but they can interpret them. Which they duly do at the crucial moment to their entire satisfaction, calling on their tame Supreme Court to back them up if anyone dares to grumble. It is a worry.
Re: Wonderful by-line
I believe the reason for the Commission wanting to send it to the Court first to examine its legality was to delay the Parliament addressing ACTA until everyone had forgotten it or gone on holiday, so it could be pushed through while no-one was looking.
Re: Better legislation to appear
Here, it seems to me, is the crux of the whole thing. The idea that the massed ranks of expert lawyers working for rich global corporations that want to be richer, and powerful governments that want to be more powerful, would 'poorly write' such an important piece of protectionist legislation is frankly ludicrous.
And as the days are long gone when an ordinary peasant can look at a law and understand what it says, it has to come down to trust. We must ask ourselves: "Never mind what it purports to say, do we trust those who wrote it?" The clear answer in this case was: "NO."
And the MEPs listened to the peasants because they know their jobs depend on it. The Commissioners, on the other hand, whose jobs don't depend on any rapport with the people however theoretically and convolutedly they may be 'elected', simply treat the peasants like dirt. Their bid to control the internet and increase the profits of big corporations at the expense of the struggling proles will not go away, whatever the percentage of this vote.
Either the arrogant Commission will, as another said, keep ramming it down the throats of the MEPs until they give in, or the salient features will resurface carefully hidden in a complex piece of legislation about the precise colour of EU-approved lamp-posts erected within 7.654 metres of EU-approved suburban gardens. (Notwithstanding all that has gone before ...)
Sadly for the massed ranks of the people, that is how the EU works; and that is why we must constantly rail against any legislation emanating from those we do not trust, even if we haven't the foggiest idea what it actually means. It is the absolute responsibility of those in power to earn our trust; they have no right to demand it. And the European Commission, executive arm of the EU, has a long, long way to go in that respect.
Re: You're not the only one "wanting to see it for a long time" ...
I don't need evidence. As you imply yourself, commonsense tells me the answer.
Either the combined might of the EU's highly-trained, expert economists was unable to foresee the result of throwing endless free handouts and promises of cheap loans at the aspiring Eurozone countries whose only purpose in applying was to get endless free handouts and unrealistic cheap loans, or the whole thing was set up specifically to fail so that lots of thusly bribed countries would end up totally subservient to the political control of the empire-building EU bosses.
Consider this: the moment Germany agrees to the issuing of eurobonds the economic euro crisis will disappear, along with the political independence of every single country in the Eurozone. A country is not independent if another controls its economy. Please do not expect me to believe that the political elites who have constructed the EU did not know exactly that, long before they even proposed the euro. Monnet clearly knew it back in 1943.
These people are building an economic and military super-state to dominate the world, and they don't give a toss about the destruction of democracy or peasants' lives. They may smarm around in drab grey suits looking sombre and respectable, but they have the aspirations, and the morals of Third World dictators. Unlike those crazies, however, they are clever enough to beat the populace into submission with bureaucracy and bullshit rather than bullets and bombs - the former are cheaper, harder to fight against, and don't destroy the infrastructure.
We don't need evidence for any of this, just the eyes of a small boy who does not see the fancy new clothes his elders tell him the Emperor is wearing.
You're not the only one "wanting to see it for a long time" ...
'During a meeting on 5 August 1943, Monnet declared to the Committee:
"There will be no peace in Europe, if the states are reconstituted on the basis of national sovereignty... The countries of Europe are too small to guarantee their peoples the necessary prosperity and social development. The European states must constitute themselves into a federation..." ... As the head of France's General Planning Commission, Monnet was the real author of what has become known as the 1950 Schuman Plan to create the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC), forerunner of the Common Market.' : -- Wikipedia
And the Common Market was, of course, the forerunner of the EU. This is a very long-term scheme that is now rapidly coming to a carefully planned and manipulated fruition. The current 'economic crisis' is a vital, and deliberately engineered part of that plan - forcing all the eurozone states into subservience to the real rulers of the EU. Now that that has been accomplished, their 'front men' can risk openly calling for a central EU government, and Reding is not the only one currently taking part in that carefully orchestrated brainwashing campaign. Not long ago such calls would have been greeted with derision or horror; but not now. Like greedy, stupid pheasants that have been led into a trap with a trail of free handout food, the Eurozone countries have nowhere else to go.
The real concern of these states should be that such a disparate mess as the EU is unlikely to work unless it is centrally governed by those who cannot be disobeyed; whatever label they hang on themselves. And the EU has been clever enough to effectively demonstrate that, with its cynically engineered economic crisis, which only it can resolve by taking more power from the states. Well, fancy that.
With the EU's appalling track record on democracy, the people of the Eurozone should be very worried. But hey, they won't have to change their money.
This is grim ...
"It's fucking grim," pontificated Flowery Lowery, in words of a considerable number of syllables and some very strange references. "I just went into the internet, and even though "I like to think that I am uniquely qualified" in all things musical, technological and business-wise, the future fell slap, fucking bang on my head. And it fucking hurt. I must go and tell The Man."
"Oh," said Fox Orlowski, "I think I must be in the wrong story. Perhaps things are different in the future. In the olden days I would have offered to take you to The Man, then I would have eaten you. But here I am giving you free publicity. And allowing all these people to read my column for nothing. And they've invented penicillin. And you can drive about London without following a man with a red flag. And there's this guy called Google who will give you any amount of incredibly valuable information for nothing. It's really quite amazing; and I thought the past was a fairy tale."
"Oh," said Flowery Lowery. "The future is different from the past then? Is that why my head hurts? Does that mean we have to think differently? This is all very confusing for someone who is as skilled and uniquely qualified as I am."
"I know," said Fox Orlowski, "My head hurts too."
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