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* Posts by Paul Shirley

1366 posts • joined 19 Jun 2009

We've done it - we've gone and made LONG-LIFE BEER

Paul Shirley
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I already have a cellar full of very long life beers

I can see how this would help flavourless piss, by keeping it flavourless.

The real secret of long life beer has been known for a long time, give it lots of flavour, more alcohol=longer life and keep it out of the light. Light kills beer, destroying the hop oils first - though hardly an issue in the mostly hop free watery piss sold as lager outside Germany ;)

Most of the Belgian beers in my cellar need 3month to a year maturation to develop their flavour. The 25yr old Thomas Hardy Ales aren't ready to drink yet, we tried at the recommended 21 years and they're still too sweet. Then again, the 42yr old bottle we shared was also too sweet for my liking!

I hate to think what will happen if brewers of existing, more flavoured, long keeping beers jump on this, knocking out a bit of the maturation process along the way.

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FONDLESLAB market DEATH STRUGGLE: Latest rankings in

Paul Shirley
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The problem is Microsoft bet the future on RT. More accurately they bet on the wall garden RT brings and perceived user lockin that creates.

Pro doesn't really help that. Yes having an RT mode is part of the crazy cross promotional, Win8 everywhere plan but 'full fat' Windows doesn't really help the walled garden part. It's hard to see Pros actual appeal extending much beyond use of desktop mode.

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Apple designer Sir Jony Ive holding up iOS 7 development: Report

Paul Shirley
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skeuomorphic has 1 big advantage

More abstracted graphical elements are potentially much easier to get trademark or design patent protection for. Skeuomorphic designs by definition have obvious precedent from real life.

If the company that design patented 'rounded corners' abstracts it's UI design its a near certainty they will do the same to every possible individual element of iOS7.

Just what the world needs, balkanised UIs all the way down to individual icons, graphical flourishes and basic control elements. I already struggle to remember WTF each Google icon means, having icons with shared meaning across all OS and GUI combinations would be a bloody good idea. Even better if it was an obvious meaning to most of us... a bit like skeuomorphic!

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BlackBerry: THE TRUTH about that 5.1 per cent UK market figure

Paul Shirley
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Re: "One million shipped..."

Innovation is driven by *effective* competition, the stronger the better.

I see Google innovating Android under Apple pressure.

Apple innovating legal theory under pressure from Android.

I cant see anything suggesting WP or BB are creating any competitive pressure or driving innovation outside their own products... and for one of them that innovation seems headed in the wrong direction!

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Google 'will be pulled back in front of MPs' on its UK tax affairs

Paul Shirley
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In reality Google have consistently demonstrated that they buy very good legal advice before doing anything, set corporate policy and external contract terms from it, then walk right on the edge of what's legal based on it.

They've also been remarkably good at getting light punishments when employees overstep policy (the WiFi slurp) or contractors ignore their contracts (Java v Android). Probably because the legal system and regulators seem to believe those many mistakes are just that, not malicious.

Who do you want to believe: poorly informed chatter from outsiders, impotent politicians and Fairsearch sponsored lies OR the professionals that actually investigate each incident? Google aren't good guys but they aren't evil either, just doing what they can legally get away with for their own good first but with less of the corrupt shit we've come to expect from the Microsoft,Apple&Oracles of the world.

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Peak Apple: Cupertino belatedly spends some money on R&D

Paul Shirley
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Re: buying in innovation ain't as cheap as it was

Here we have another effect of excess polish fumes on thinking ability.

Many of today's smartphones are indeed rapidly converging on the artists mockup I remember of what pocket PC's would look like, a mockup printed in a PC magazine back in the 1990's. They haven't yet dispensed with the bezel around the display or gone for a solid glass body but the grid of icons, the touchscreen control, the ability to make phone calls (yes, that was predicted), they've achieved all that. At the time the only slightly surprising prediction was putting a voicephone in the device, everything else looked pretty obvious.

And of course polish fumes wipe out memory, of things like the LG Prada, so like the iPhone Apple were accused of copying it. A phone shown publicly *before* any iPhone details were revealed.

Apple are so very good a polishing they've completely polished away history for so many of you. Those of us that lived through the entire Apple era remember a lot...

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Paul Shirley
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buying in innovation ain't as cheap as it was

In the good old days innovators were falling over themselves trying to demonstrate their new shiny to Apple or Microsoft. Nowadays they're putting a lot more effort into trying to get paid if the shiny gets used, before showing anything to the circling sharks. And there are more sharks in the hunt.

That's got to increase the R&D spend a lot ;)

Apple: polishing other peoples innovating for decades.

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Galaxy S4 radiant, but has black holes

Paul Shirley
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Re: Lag?? @ Paul Shirly

"should manage it (rotation) itself", while I appreciate having 180&270deg rotation without relying on devs explicitly supporting it. I think we can assume at least some would manage to display upside down if they tried ;)

Non-standard rotations few have available but so very useful if your OEM foolishly put the notification LED in the power button on the phones top edge, carefully hidden from sight!

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Paul Shirley
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Re: Lag??

I've had a few ROMs installed that exposed the delay in settings but it's only part of the problem, usually a very minor part.

The major issue is by default Android handles rotation of apps by restarting them and that can be very expensive, especially for container apps like the launcher. Since the rotation animation doesn't start till the app finishes reinitialising you see a lot of lag if the app takes a long time, even though actual rotation detection isn't laggy! On the same device simple apps switch quickly.

It's possible to work around this and internally deal with rotation but few apps bother. Not sure a launcher could do it while supporting widgets anyway and most simply disable landscape mode to avoid the issue.

It's probably the 'right thing' to do by default, completely reinitialising is more reliable and automagic but with an unfortunate effect on lag.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: Galaxy SII was superb! But I covet a pure Linux phone Stack!

Real geeks will be dual booting.

Real Alpha geeks will be triple booting Android,Ubuntu and Mozilla.

Insane geeks will throw in another version of Android and quad boot, for those moments you just need a faster running game.

Eadon will remain a beginner, aspiring to geekness but lacking any clue how to achieve it.

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Review: Nokia Lumia 720

Paul Shirley
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Re: "if somebody managed to port something like Go Launcher"

And right there is one strength of Android, if you don't like something about Android or it's UI, there's a good chance ordinary users can install a replacement and change it. Very few phones run stock Android, whether it's a carrier mangled, OEM skinned (which many users like) or user hacked version.

Want to do that on WP,iOS or BB? Not an option. In the Android ecosystem users have direct influence on how Android evolves while others get to take what's given them and try to like it.

Over the years my Android phones have looked/behaved like iOS, WP7, HTC Sense, whatever Sony call their Xperia skin... and half a dozen 3rd party home replacements including truly different 3D launchers. Rarely lasts long before choosing something closer to stock Android.

I've drawn the line firmly at trying Facebook Home though and didn't like Go Launcher at all ;)

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Hedge fund invests $2bn in Microsoft, thinks Redmond is undervalued

Paul Shirley
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Re:"MS stock price went up significantly after they posted their results last week."

...and then promptly sank back the next day. Probably when the herd of speculators noticed profits had actually fallen substantially after accounting for deferred revenue.

I'm actually surprised they didn't drop further. Some of that deferred revenue was Win7 sales MS wanted to book as Win8, use of the $14.99 upgrade voucher magically converting the sale into a full price Win8 sale with bragging rights attached. The silence from MS tells me that didn't work, that MS couldn't even fake Win8 sales.

Investors apparently haven't noticed that yet, more accurately most haven't. But the more volatile the stock gets the more gamblers will flock to exploit it and todays news could easily signal the start of the stampede.

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Paul Shirley
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Microsoft become a plaything for gamblers

When investors can have this effect on share price your company is in a little trouble. When a single investor, however large manages it, that's a lot of trouble.

When that investor is from a sector more interested in share price than the actual business, with a clear way to profit from stock manipulation... you're well on the way to losing control of the company and its future.

...still, with the direction Ballmers lackeys have take Windows recently, losing control might be the best thing for everyone apart from the chair thrower ;)

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Eric Schmidt defends Google's teeny UK tax payouts - again

Paul Shirley
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Re: It's not a tax ...

I fear you complete misunderstand what's really going on here. There are very, very few actual holes in the laws they passed because most of the holes were intentional.

What's stirred them into mock outrage is multiple realisations:

Half the MP scum realising that their friends and financial supporters aren't the only ones benefiting (as intended). They aren't in control of the handouts any longer.

That they've botched the whole bent enterprise so badly it's now possible to completely avoid contributing any value back to the country even as a side effect - and that removes the fiction they justified much of the plan with.

That the public have started asking awkward questions that won't stop at preventing excessive avoidance, killing quite a few retirement directorships for the crooks in parliament if their 'friends' actually end up paying tax.

The system is working almost as planned, they just expected not to get caught. ES has done us a big favour, by being so open and outspoken the politicians are forced to respond and not just with the usual bullshit. They need to decide whether the things they said to justify enticing internationals to the UK with tax reductions are bullshit or real, but neither position is compatible with the squealing complaints now emitting from parliament.

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Londoners in mass test of telly tech savvy as 4G filters mailed out

Paul Shirley
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Re: @Paul

They might not be as good but they can do the job 'well enough' for many, especially if the cabling is good. Hell of a lot cheaper than hiring an installer to fit a masthead system unless you're already replacing the aerial. A lot quicker as well, quick trip into Argos and seconds to plug in for instant gratification.

There must be millions of them from the years of reduced power digital transmission though arguably just disconnecting them will solve the problem. I suspect the owners will find it more appealing adding a filter than removing a redundant booster though!

There are also distribution amps, sometimes it does make sense keeping them close to the receivers, cuts down the downleads needed. I have a 4 way one feeding my HTPC, could probably just get away with going passive since the least sensitive tuner died.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: @joseph

Masthead amps tend to use f plugs, the shitty diy ones plugged in at the tv end usually don't. There's a lot of capacity for mismatch here.

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Smart metering will disrupt weather forecasts, warns Met Office

Paul Shirley
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Re: Switching off the washing machine?

"How would switching off a washing machine save electricity?"

Saving electricity is not the point, saving the fuel used to generate it (supposedly) is. Reducing demand peaks allows less excess capacity to be on standby wasting energy. Standby generators that may be less fuel efficient than base load stations.

In reality it allows less *expensive* standby capacity to be used and ultimately less to be even built. Energy suppliers are so keen because they can save a lot of money on capital expenses and a bit more on running costs. They still come out ahead even if somehow (despite their best planning) they end up selling less electricity.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: real savings?

In one of my short excursions into 'normal work', the entire company could tell when the CEO was visiting from the US - the thermostat jumped up to US levels and everyone else started sweating in the heat wave.

Combined with the low use of AC any saving from thermostat manipulation is unlikely to be very effective here in the UK compared to the US. Wonder how much else of the 'savings' are artificially inflated by measuring in the US?

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Remember Streetmap? It's suing Google in a UK court

Paul Shirley
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Re: Take a look... a long disappointed look

Just tried typing 'Euston Flyer' into the search on that new page. No results. Epic fail.

Since my main use of mapping is to get me to and from pubs I may only know by name, StreetMaps is a non starter. The steady alcoholic intake makes a usable navigation mode another essential and again they fail.

When some of those pubs are in the middle of Belgium, I think I might pick some other, more comprehensive service...

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Google U-turn DID preempt ICANN's block on corporate gTLD-snatchers

Paul Shirley
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ICANN need a good slapping

It remains true that these domains should not have been made available this way, this is a colossal ICANN screwup. It doesn't just open the door to massive abuse, it almost compels it, for defence even where there's no malice.

Hard to tell if ICANN see a goldmine or were just too fscking lazy to quickly identify and reserve the most obvious cases - like all the ones Google applied for. They should have been dealt with in weeks before anyone wasted much money on the process.

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Operators look on in horror as Facebook takes mobe users Home

Paul Shirley
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Re: Not for the likes of us

@Ledswinger: yes, FB have a long and disgraceful history of battery sucking Android apps with unparalleled levels of bugs. They haven't even needed GPS to achieve record power drains, just a complete inability to play nice with the system and let it manage power use.

They're the last people I'd trust to run my lock screen responsibly. Also the last people I'd trust to not open gaping security holes to make life easier for the FB sheeple.

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MoneySupermarket: Google never warned us about payday loan AD BAN

Paul Shirley
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weren't Google forced to hilight their own search results?

Oh yes, whining that Google was showing it's own services as normal search results forced them to highlight them in results... that didn't work quite the way the competition expected did it ;)

Unless they seriously believe Google can be forced to hide it's own services completely I can't see how everyone can be satisfied. Won't stop the whining though.

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Microsoft: 'Facebook Home just copies Windows Phone'

Paul Shirley
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'people' is not what I want from my phone

Long, long ago, I actually tried a small pile of apps/skins designed to aggregate communications and make contacts the centre of my Android phone. Hated them all. Disordered information overload getting in the way of using the stuff I want.

Today the Jelly Bean notification bar gets it about where I'm happy, by telling me there's all sorts of crap waiting, even putting them all in one place but crucially only bothering me with them when I choose to look. Then it fires up my chosen handler for each type instead of pretending one interface handles them all.

I know I'm at an extreme but I'm convinced the few that love the MS way are equally rare. Facebook are treading a dangerous path, 'people' is just one of the things smartphones do. In some cases one of the minor features ;)

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Freeview telly test suggests 4G interference may not be a big deal

Paul Shirley
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Re: I checked last week

...and replacing my Freeview equipment with Freesat equivalents will reach around £500+ even if I install it all myself, Freeview tuners are cheap, satellite not so... but I really hate climbing ladders, drilling holes in the building and pulling cable through an uncooperative building.

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Paul Shirley
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I don't think the rate they found counts as 'vanishingly rare' and I do question whether the test area is actually representative of real problem areas.

Where I live, on the boundary of 2 main transmitters coverage in the suburbs, after switchover and full power, reception is just possible without boosters. Just, on many days I have a couple of unusable muxes on Waltham. That's a high density of houses in a very problem area.

Also worth remembering there are likely to be amplifiers in any daisy chained devices - set top boxes with passthru to the TV for example. Wonder if any of them will get swamped, even with no aerial booster to blame?

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Paul Shirley
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@mantissa

Remember that until recently those 800Mhz frequencies were legitimate TV channels that amplifiers *should be amplifying*. Shitty or not, anything older than the freq reallocation announcement is legitimately designed to handle the 800Mhz 4G frequencies and these things last a long time. My last amp died last year in a thunderstorm after 10+ years.

What's depressing is boosters covering 470-862Mhz are still being sold.

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Smartphone running 'Facebook OS' said to debut this week

Paul Shirley
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Depends on what they remove or replace.

Sony Ericsson manage to infest their devices with FaceBook integration and multiple FB apps, multiple Sony owned app stores, customise many default apps and reskin the UI. But they remove nothing Google cares about - maps is still there, the Play Store is still preinstalled and so on.

Nokia rejected Android because G wouldn't let them *replace* Google Maps. At the time Orange had no problems shipping devices with their own maps app prominently displayed along with the full G package - crucially including G Maps.

It's so easy to replace or modify key parts of the system you don't even need to fork to heavily customise Android. That said I expect FB will fork to ensure they capture as much profit as possible. With every app store containing the same apps it wont be too hard populating a shiny new FB version and they won't even need to pressure devs to include FB support since every damn app I see seems infected already.

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Review: Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2

Paul Shirley
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It's a Win8 device. The pen is the after thought or more accurately the work around for an inprecise, work unfriendly touch interface.

Revisionism. Only works when everyone that lived through it is dead or senile. Come back in 50 years.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: muddying the waters with Windows RT

Bear in mind Intels persistent failure to deliver on power consumption promises. Even when they get close ARM moves ahead anyway. It's wasn't unreasonable for MS to target ARM, wouldn't stand a chance in mobile or basic tablet against IOS/Android, even in RT mode, the battery life isn't there yet and that was entirely predictable.

It's the idiotic and deliberately deceptive confusion created between ARM Win8 and x86 Win8 that needs questioning. ARM RT devices are necessarily crippled by having insufficient CPU power to emulate x86 support and with desktop mode denied to 3rd parties no apps will be recompiled for native ARM. Pretending they're more similar than the reality is a scummy marketing lie.

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Next from Microsoft: 'Blue', the Windows 8 they hope you don't hate

Paul Shirley
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Re: Wrong move

Ubuntu is not the solution. Microsoft are *following* it down the same hole Ubuntu has been digging, copying the same design errors, ignoring the same user complaints. Only ahead on deploying to phones, where Canonical are now chasing Microsoft despite the evidence WP is failing.

Both screwing their existing customer base.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: Start Menu?

Just tried it and as expected, it didn't bring up all the launch shortcuts my Classic Shell menu shows, most significantly it won't show the 'open on screen N' shortcut variants of my media apps.

Metro Start isn't just a deficient UI design, it's functionally inferior to the old Start Menu, which can take a wider variety of link types, is easier to edit and offers more control of launch properties.

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Paul Shirley
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@mmeier

"How many programs can a ARM toy tablet run at the same time?"

Why should your cheap, battery dependent, small screened, input deficient ARM toy dictate the behaviour of my high end, hex core, multimonitor, mains powered PC?

Microsoft cross promotional marketing requirements is not an acceptable answer.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: I don't miss the start menu

It's a reasonable position and you're doing nothing wrong. You don't need it, that's fine.

The retards who tell me I'm wrong for using it are the problem and unfortunately some of them work at Microsoft. Taking away features because only a minority use them is barely justifiable, taking them away when there's no need to do so at all is unbelievable.

Taking features away because it serves Microsoft marketing plans is simply abuse.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: desktop

WOW! Must have missed the bit where Metro apps now work on the desktop...

Win8 is a schizophrenic OS and MS will not maintain both halves of it. I have no intention of staying quiet while they let the half I need rot, however many halfwits they hire to shout for Metro.

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Nanowires boost photovoltaics sunlight capture by 15X

Paul Shirley
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Re: Not sure about this - a further thought

It looks like it's lensing the light in free air/vacuum onto the junction. That would give a small improvement over traditional lensing with glass or mirrors. The big gain would be concentrating light directly onto the junction from the sides without needing to penetrate layers of semiconductor.

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Review: Sony Xperia Z

Paul Shirley
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Re: "nobody else is doing high end waterproof phones right now"

Sony certainly do high end pricing however I don't believe they do real high end devices. More halfway between mid and high range with a hefty Sony branding tax.

They're firmly down in 5th place because few believe the Sony brand justifies a 10-20% premium.

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Paul Shirley
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Re: After so many many SE phones...

The innovation was last seen when they buried the R800 (Xperia Play) in a shallow grave...

Though I'm not convinced having around 14 unremovable apk's supporting FaceBook is innovation worth having ;)

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Sysadmins: Let's perch on Microsoft Santa's lap, show him our wish list

Paul Shirley
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a MS wet dream

Not seeing how lubing our wallets is a compromise...

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Samsung's new co-CEO: 'Windows isn't selling very well'

Paul Shirley
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It's hardly surprising there's so little difference between WP phones, the spec is tightly locked down by Microsoft. Specifically the software can have almost no customisation.

While I actually quite like the idea of near stock devices, phone makers put more into distinguishing their brand and individual devices by software than hardware spec (which is now less tightly specified by MS). Android sales show the public disagree with me, voting for variety over conformity. Meanwhile the carriers selling most devices simply can't resist messing with (and messing up) the software.

It's should surprise no-one that manufacturers and carriers aren't keen on a device so locked into Microsoft branding. Unlike iPhone they can afford to boycott it, to make half hearted designs to test the water (and fend off license blackmail over Android).

Samsung don't need these sales and the mainly "big screen+heavy skinning" strategy that got them to #1 in smartphone is a poor fit for WP license restrictions. HTC and Nokia are fighting for survival, they need to try harder - and it's winning them a bigger slice of a microscopic pie.

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Microsoft Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

Paul Shirley
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not cannibals

I too doubt there's much cannibalizing going on. IT insiders were already waiting for pro, I suspect 400k may seriously overestimate ingoing interest, with the fans now satiated.

The ordinary public meanwhile have seen RT and ignored it. All they know is Pro is heavier and more expensive. A few know RT is crippled a as a traditional Windows machine and will assume Pro is also. Microsoft's deliberate ploy to confuse RT and Pro versions is hurting them badly, not cannibalism but devaluing the entire product line to its LCD.

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Smartphone users prefer LOVELY apps to fiddly mobe websites

Paul Shirley
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Re: Apps > Sites

If I hadn't recently noticed a 475Mbyte browser cache folder when backing up my wifes phone I might have agreed with you. Haven't checked what mines using but I do know there's more free space available than I allow FireFox on my PC ;)

...and yet that huge cache still can't overcome the effect of terrible 3G latency, the real reason (along with the cost of data) most of us prefer apps over even the prettiest website.

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Uni profs: Kids today could do with a bit of 'mind-crippling' COBOL

Paul Shirley
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Re: Learning a language at uni for a job?

If a CS grad applies for a job and can't demonstrate the 'vocational skill' of actually being able to program well, they're screwed.

The reality is, picking up a new language is indeed not hard for a new grad. A new physics grad, a new maths grad, a new chemistry grad, any real science or engineering subject. And if we're going to have to train them all or give them all time to train themselves, the guy with the math skills is getting the job, not the CS grad.

The world needs many more competent programmers than computer scientists, a bit more vocational training would serve everyone better at undergrad level.

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Dear Facebook: I heard the news today, oh boy

Paul Shirley
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Re: Ponzi...

Up vote here if you don't have a fb account ;)

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Paul Shirley
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hope to get more people to hang around longer

I've lost count of the number of internet companies that tried creating portal pages we'd all be irresistable drawn to hang around on. It's a desperate plan that predates 56k dial-up and I don't remember it ever working.

The only advantage FB has is a service supposedly more addictive than crack. I suspect that won't work any more than it did in the early days, when the Internet itself was seen in much the same way.

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Here's the $4.99 utility that might just have saved Windows 8

Paul Shirley
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@Keith 72

My problem with Metro is that MS dethemed desktop mode to match it's fugly look and that materially affects its usability.

In Metro mode it really doesn't matter if you can't easily distinguish window borders, since you can have 1 or 2 of them in constant positions. On busy desktops it causes just enough confusion to annoy me.

In Metro having UI elements poorly marked on a monochrome background might work - you don't *need* to use scroll bars with touch for example. On the desktop it makes for a hard to use and headache creating mess.

My Win8 desktop became a whole lot more usable after installing the Royale 8 theme and restoring some sanity to the desktop chrome. Pity that takes hacking a 3rd party theme engine into Win8 and inevitably affecting stability.

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Mark Shuttleworth: Canonical leads Ubuntu, not 'your whims'

Paul Shirley
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leading down a sinkhole

Leadership is necessary but the destination it leads to is more important. Strong leaders can lead to disaster, mediocrity and irrelevance or more rarely, success.

Canonical has not been short on leadership, enough to lead Microsoft down the same dumbing down sinkhole with Win8. It's dangerously short on respect for those it leads and totally blind to criticism. Well on the way to irrelevance with hints of disaster thrown in.

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Google, MPEG LA kiss and make up in WebM patent spat

Paul Shirley
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hope we see the license deal

We can only hope the ongoing MS+Apple v Motorola+Google fight leads to MPEG LA being forced to reveal the licence terms, the same way they were forced to reveal Googles H264 licence. Not very likely though.

If it were anyone but Google I'd assume they'd just done the expedient thing of licensing regardless of the merits of MPEG LAs claims, to cut at least 3 years of damaging delay while grinding through the courts. Invalidating patents is neither cheap or quick sadly.

But it is Google and they don't normally roll over like that. I'd like to believe MPEG LA found just enough to cause problems but not enough to make Google worry or fight a cheap/free license. More realistically it's the shitty US patent regime and simply impossible to create anything new without patent challenges, however hard you try.

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Redmond slashing Win8, Office OEM rates for small devices

Paul Shirley
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Re: despite Microsoft offering customers deep discounts on Windows 8 upgrades

Pedants really need to remind themselves that MS have a long history of giving new names to old things, so they can 'own' them. Bring your MS<->rest of world phrase book to any MS story.

It's a practice IBM pioneered... so another thing MS didn't invent but 'borrowed' ;)

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Review: Toshiba Satellite U920T Ultrabook

Paul Shirley
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Re: Windows 8 - It should go away.

"get win8 hard sell due to DUMB plus 'greedy for their commission' salesmen...."

...though this time the salesmen all seem to hate Win8 and push Win7 instead. Even a dumb greedy salesman can get it right sometimes (by accident!)

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BlackBerry Z10: Prices pruned despite eager iPunter interest

Paul Shirley
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Also doesn't tell you how many BB fans defected unwillingly for a better featured device and are returning in hope that BB is improved enough. That's likely to be a one off launch surge that will slow as the less keen wait out their contracts before deciding.

Given the removal of the dedicated messaging USP that may be a very small trickle of future returnees.

2nd quarter sales will be much more informative.

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