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* Posts by Mark .

1809 posts • joined 18 Jun 2009

Now Apple cuts back on Samsung displays

Mark .
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Even if that was true, I note you've also just said that many Apple products are also therefore "shit quality"...

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Apple demands $707m more from Samsung

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"over the design of the companies' respective telephones"

So did Apple win on the "rounded rectangles" patents? Or was it all just software patents? I've seen conflicting reports on this. (Not that the software patents in question aren't also all utterly trivial issues.)

As for applying the patents to other kinds of products, one has to wonder - if you can get a trivial patent simply by doing it "on a phone", i.e., where prior art is discounted because it wasn't on a phone, how can that patent then be applied to other kinds of products? Seems a case of having your (rounded) cake and eating it...

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Re: what Samsung should have done...

No, even if one of them was an Apple laptop, in many cases it would be hard to tell the difference without seeing the logo. And no, not because anyone else copied Apple. The areas in which they are similar are not things that were done by Apple first. The form factor of a laptop was not invented by them. There are certain cues that one could use - e.g., Apple laptops tend not to have page up/down keys, and I assume they have their own keys instead of the Windows keys for obvious reasons. But you couldn't tell that from a distance, and a random person wouldn't necessarily know that - plus there are just as many differences on could pick out between Samsung and Apple phones.

Copying the logo would be fair game for a lawsuit (though that's trademarks, not patents). But they *didn't* do that. Please catch up to what the story is actually about.

Indeed, that shows that people *aren't* copying Apple. If companies really copied Apple, then every laptop would have a tacky light-up logo on the back. Thankfully for those of us who care about having something that looks tasteful, they don't.

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Re: Too much on their hands

Well indeed, a 2005 feature phone can do Google maps. But can you get sat-nav using Google maps on an Apple phone? Presumably you're stuck with Apple's system (I assume it does do turn-by-turn satnav).

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Re: "the wound it inflicted on Samsung"

"Scroll back a few years - who in their right mind really bought Samsung phones - very few - now (post copying Apple) they are seen as much more attractive."

A few years ago, who in their right mind really bought Apple phones. Yep that's right, a few years ago (pre-2010), Apple's sales were far less. And I suspect that Samsung still outsold them back them too.

"But - that can change"

Things can change for Apple too. And you've got it backwards - unlike Apple, Samsung *don't* have all their phones investment on one platform - whilst they're having phenomenal success with Android, they also offer low end phones (so called "feature" phones, which are still really low end smartphones), as well their alternative smartphone platform Bada, and will be bringing out WP8 phones. And they're working on Tizen, a new Linux based open source OS.

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iOS 6 maps can't find Sydney Apple Store

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Re: idealized google maps

Why should Google give away their products for free to the competition?

Yes, it's true that Apple are "having" to do this, because Google aren't writing software like satnav for them free. So what? The bottom line is that major platforms like Symbian, Android, and now WP have had free satnav for years. About time that Apple finally caught up, rather than relying on costly 3rd party apps, or just giving users only the basic Google maps that you could get on a feature phone 6 or so years ago.

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Re: @ Mark C Casey

Yes, Google Maps wasn't so good in 2005. So basically you're saying, Apple is seven years behind the competition. Thanks for clearing that up - I agree.

I'm not sure what your point is - yes, this judgement is based on the competition, but *of course* it should be. Products are always based on comparing to the competition.

I mean, if no computers existed, then a 286 PC selling for one million pounds would be quite revolutionary. And at some point in the past, a supercomputer would have had that much processing power.

But we don't think that, because of what you can actually get in the marketplace today, in 2012. I don't see why Apple should be held to a different standard.

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Re: Map errors

Indeed, the usual response from Apple fans when someone points out a lacking feature that other phones have had for years is to say "But why would I want to do that?" And you know what, I agree - why would I want to go to an Apple shop.

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Apple's first batch of iPhone 5 preorders sold out in an hour

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Samsung Galaxy S3 hit 9 million pre-orders - and that's just one of many Samsung models, one of thousands of Android devices.

But as noted above, "selling out" figures tell us nothing. I noticed that Samsung started doing this trick too with the S3 - and who can blame them, given people are taken in by the spin. But I'd hope people were more intelligent here.

It's especially meaningless for a platform that's known for obsessive fanatics who have to buy it the moment it comes out (but I guess, so would I if I'd already waited two and a half years since the last non-trival phone improvement - since the 4S was a minor change - with other platforms/companies, you don't have to wait ages then rush out to get a new phone, as there are upgrades and improvements all year round). (I've got to laugh - on another article, people were criticising Apple users for being fanatical like this, and someone suggested it was unfair to portray Apple users like that, as they don't rush out and get the latest Apple feature phone the moment it comes out - yet here we have an article praising Apple for just that! Which is it?)

Let's wait for actual sales figures - and with Android at almost 70% and rising, Iphone at 16% and falling, it won't look pretty. Yes, I'm sure Apple will get a boost in Q4 due to their new release, but then it will go back down again. Unlike the sales of Android, or market leaders Samsung and Nokia, where sales remain high all year round.

What's more, they manage this without the endless hype and free advertising that the media and many other companies unfairly give to the smaller Iphone platfom. Why do they do it? Can't Apple afford their own advertising?

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Apple wins second round of Samsung patent slugfest

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Re: Apple cultists

One post on a forum outdoes the endless hype, fanaticism and free advertising from the near entirety of the mainstream media?

One post on a forum where it's on-topic to discuss phones outdoes all the people who'll randomly tell you they have an Iphone, Ipad - when they first buy it, every day when they use it, or when the CEO dies - whether it's to evangelise, or what it's a completely irrelevant comment? If you say so.

And an opposition to fanaticism isn't fanaticism - it's just being fed up of the whole thing.

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LONDON iPHONE 5 MADNESS: 'You must be CRAZY to buy Apple'

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Re: apple fanboys

Styluses were never required. Personally I like a stylus as an addition, and wish more phones came with them. You do realise the Android Galaxy Note has a stylus?

Plenty of phones did have QWERTY keyboards, and plenty didn't. Just as was the case before Apple. So I don't see how anything changed there (QWERTY keyboards have no become less common, but that's a lot more recently that they phased out - so more due to the popularity of Symbian or Android, than Apple way back in 2007).

Tiny screen? Let's see, Android has increased all the way up to 4.8" or even 5.5", whilst Apple stuck at 3.5" for years, and finally get an increase to 4", and you say we should thank Apple? Screen sizes have been increasing since the early 2000s.

And even if any of these points were true - that's nothing compared to all the things that came first in other phones. I'll thank Apple, the day that I see Iphone users thanking other companies. But I never do.

"iPhone 1 (which everyone said would be a failure and it wasn't)."

Nope, the complete opposite. The near entire media hyped it months before release and claimed it would change everything and be most successful (whilst other full screen touchscreen devices were ignored). The reality? It was outsold massively by Symbian, and even BlackBerry and WinMo. Even one single Nokia model sold comparable to original Iphone (the 5800), even though that was just one of countless Nokia phones. Sales grew slowly to finally become reasonable around 2010, but it was never the number one platform.

No it didn't *fail* as such, but hardly anyone claimed that, and most product releases from multinationals don't fail, even if they don't become number one. WinMo wasn't a failures either, for example, even though it never became number one.

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Re: premium price

I got the S3 a few months ago (soon after release) on £31/month 21 month contract (Vodafone). Honest question - what' s the Iphone 5 available for? When I looked, even the old 4S was generally on much more expensive contracts, but maybe it's different this time round.

Remember that even £5 a month is £120, a significant proportion of the full price of these phones. Sure, that might not be overpriced by a huge amount, but that's not the same thing as saying they cost the same. (And I can afford an extra £5/month. I'd just rather do something else with it, than give it to Apple.)

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Mark .
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TCO? I mean what, you think that people using Android have to spend time as network admins on their phones, or uninstalling viruses? Or what?

Yes, I factor in TCO, and still would consider it overpriced.

No, it isolation it's perhaps not overpriced in what it offers, but we could say that with any technology, by noting that people used to buy it even when it was more expensive. So if people happily bought a 286 at £1000 in ~1990, by your logic, a 286 computer today wouldn't be overpriced at £1000.

But that's silly. Clearly when we judge whether something is a fair price, we should compare to the competition too. So it doesn't matter how many hours a day you use it, you can still do the same (or more) with less overpriced phones.

As an added bonus, you don't have to queue for years for features like 4" screen and maps.

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Re: Be Happy!

Well indeed, the thing that annoys me is not that a few people choose to queue, but the hysteria in the media about it all. And that does have effects - it affects awareness of products on the market, it gives help to one company and not others, it reduces free competition in the market, and means progress is made more on marketing and what gets media hype, rather than technology or innovation.

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Why queue?

Why join a queue of hundreds? Like 100s of millions of others, I'm already enjoying all these features on another platform. And I didn't have to queue for my Android phone either - since good new phones are released all year round rather than every year or two, there's no need to wait for any particular release.

Of course, I'm sure it's more about the experience - but seriously, I have to wonder at people who spend their time to give free marketing to one of the richest companies in the world. If you want to donate time, aren't there better causes?

(Love the new Samsung adverts btw - http://sammyhub.com/2012/09/20/new-galaxy-s-iii-ad-jabs-at-apple-users/ .)

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Microsoft drives German patent tank into Google's front room

Mark .
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Re: That's odd

If it's wrong, then blame all the media that are claiming Samsung copied Apple, and claiming they have a patent on the look.

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Google acts against prostitution app after complaints from Congress

Mark .
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"on your mobile, iPad and computer"

I've seen this expression a few places now - it makes about as much sense as saying "on your mobile, tablet and Dell" or "on your Galaxy, tablet and computer". Given it's on Android, clearly they do support other tablets - so why a special product-placement advert just for Apple?

No idea on the rights or wrongs of this case. But it's good that, unlike one platform, a single entity does not have ultimate control over software distribution - even in cases where we might disagree with it, I'm not sure a private company should have that control (and if the software is actually illegal in some way, the Governments can still deal with distribution channels in the usual way).

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Samsung's appeal gaffe keeps Galaxy Tab 10.1 banned in US

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Re: Patent law is BROKEN (and Copyright law is WORSE).

"I certainly agree that Apple deserves credit and even profits for being first."

And whilst they may have been first at some of the very specific things being talked about (e.g., use of doubleclick on a phone to do a zoom), they weren't first when it comes to things like rounded rectangles, nor were they first at the more general concept of "use doubleclick to do some action". It's a shame Samsung didn't play by the same dirty rules - they had a 4" phone years ago...

I think it's also a depressing thing about the reporting of this case - the mainstream media spin it as "Samsung copied Apple" which people, especially fans, take it to mean the whole idea of things like smartphones, which Apple were years later than Samsung.

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Who queues for an iPhone 5? Protesters, hipsters and the jobless

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Re: iMuppets

It's pretty sad that it's the older generation who'd queue up for festivals and gigs, and the younger generation queuing up to buy a mobile phone from a big company.

"The first generation less rebellious than their parents".

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Re: Business plan

Nah, just ship it without the toilet paper. If it's not there, they'll happily believe that no one really *needs* it. That can come in the next model, and you can be sure they'll be queuing up to get it.

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To be fair, I'd be queuing up if I had to wait years for something basic - from 3G to, what is it this time, their own mapping software and a 4" screen. I'd also be queuing up if I'd had to wait 2.5 years for any significant upgrade in phone technology, rather than having the choice of new phones released all year round.

Well okay, only joking - since I don't limit myself to one company, I don't ever need to queue. As Samsung says, it doesn't take a genuis... http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/912341-samsung-mocks-iphone-5-in-new-it-doesnt-take-a-genius-ad-campaign

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Lightning strikes fresh iPad Mini shots

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Re: How times change

So 7" is no use at all, but 8" is great? (And also great is 10", and apparently 3.5" and 4", but not 4.8" or 5.5"...) At which point is the magic division? What about say a 7.5" tablet? And there are 8" Android tablets, btw.

It can't have both the same resolution and density, if the size is different. Which is it? Same density doesn't help with UI scaling at all. The same resolution might, though it's a poor restrictive way of solving the problem (and different iphones/ipads already have had different resolutions).

Android tablets run the same UI as Android phones, so if you can use an Android phone (and there are far more people doing so than iphones), you can use an Android tablet.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with a person just wrong - but it is worth criticising when ppl hail a person and a company as being right in everything they do, and when other products are accused of either being wrong, or copying.

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Re: How times change

Indeed. And I love how the arguments aren't even applied consistently. I mean, an Iphone has only just over half the screen space of a Galaxy S3. Even the latest 4SS only has less than 70%. Even more a difference if we took the Note. Of course, he'd probably claim that it was somehow different for different devices, but the point still stands. I mean, I would say that 7-8" devices are a different category to 10" devices due to their added portability - 10" devices are in the same category as netbooks and ultra-portable laptops. There's a continual tradeoff between portability and screen size.

I mean, I might as well mock Ipad users, as they have less than 35% screen space that my 17" Clevo has...

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Re: Android tablet

What's a "tablet app"? The Nexus is a standard Google device, running standard Android, so it runs all the Android apps. And standard Android also has camera software with it.

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Re: Gawd almighty...

It's also worth noting the Ainol Novo Android 4 tablets - e.g., the Novo 7 Flame has just as good specs as a Nexus 7, for less money (~£115) *and* that's for the 16GB model, with microSD as well. There's even a good range of tablets they have for under £100, that whilst not quite as good spec, are still good enough for many people. The only downside seems to be the unfortunate name of the company!

It's astonishing the way that there's so little awareness of these, mainly only on Android-specific forums, but the reviews so far seem to be good, and I'm tempted to get one. It's sad the way that media coverage influences the market so much - it's not that the Ipad is any better, but it got vast amounts of media coverage even before it was announced, let alone released. Most people aren't even aware of alternatives. The only Android tablets to get some coverage have been Amazon and now the Nexus 7. You can also buy Ipads in about every shop - Android tablets are harder to get hold of, and these Ainol tablets seem to basically involve ordering from China... (Though there are a few UK distributors selling via Amazon.)

(Aren't journalists supposed to, you know, do some journalism? It would be nice if tech journalists could research what's available and do some actual reporting, instead of hyping the next possible release from Apple...)

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Hello Miracast vid-beaming: ANOTHER thing the iPhone 5 hasn't got

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Re: @Ralph5

Works fine with my LG TV, but then I bought a TV that wasn't garbage. If you're saying "Apple are better than garbage" then sure, but that's not a higher standard, there's plenty of choice that works fine.

And how well does AppleThing work to share between Windows/Android and my LG TV? Oh wait, not at all.

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Re: @Ralph5

You're probably one of those people thinking at "Apple TV" is some kind of special device where there's nothing else quite like it.

In fact, there are loads of boxes that stream media, as well as download content from the Internet. These kind of things are standard in many TVs too, but if you just want a add-on box, there are loads, starting from around £50, of which Apple are just one of many manufacturers. Even Tesco have them - http://www.tesco.com/direct/gifts-jewellery/digital-tv-boxes-media-streamers/cat10680007.cat .

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Re: The iPhone hasn't got what?

And I can already share and transmit media between all my devices and my LG TV. Because it uses an open standard (DLNA) rather than AppleBuzzword, it Just Works with all my devices no matter who makes them - Windows and Android working fine with a completely different OS on the TV; Samsung and Clevo hardware happily talking to an LG TV. If the thing talked about in the article is an open standard, then that's good too.

On that note, I found it sad that the entire audio industry seems to be obsessed with only catering to the minority of Apple users - speakers that plug into Iphones and Ipads (now incompatible!), and support for AppleSpeak that I have no idea what it is, but is presumably some Apple wireless thingy. The upshot is, because the TV industry hasn't go themselves obsessed with Apple, my LG TV works much better as a central hub even for just music - I can play music from any device in the house through the TV (either pulling it from the TV, or pushing it from the device), and it works fine.

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Siri, will Apple's App Store lock out blind people on iOS 6?

Mark .
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Re: Samsung should give them all a free phone

Even plain vanilla on my Samsung Galaxy Nexus has accessibility features as standard, easy to find there. Oh, and nice bit of nationalism there.

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HP's Whitman promises 'more beautiful' PCs

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Re: More of the same .......

Oh, it's only the other way round - when Apple are losing, they sued the leader for a billion dollars...

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Mark .
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"But there's another problem facing HP, which is that in Apple's most recent quarter [snip]"

I'm not sure why that's a problem for HP. It may be a missed opportunity, but it's about as relevant as quoting sales of some company that sells even more cars, or something, and then going on about how HP's attempts to enter the car market haven't done so well.

So Apple are better at selling toys and phones than they are at making computers. Well, Samsung and Nokia sell even more phones than Apple.

And I hope they don't make PCs that look like Apple's. I much prefer the sleek and shiny look of black or various colourful PCs; the dull silver looks like an 1970s attempt to look futuristic, which now just looks dated. The wedge-shaped look makes me think of cheese, and comes at the expense of functionality. And the last thing I want on my computer is a light-up logo - tacky.

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Windows 8: Never mind Office, it's for GAMING

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Re: Logic fail?

Windows applications could install just as easily as on phones, it's just that the writers of installers insist on asking you all sorts of mostly pointless questions.

(Although it's a matter of debate which is better - is it better to ask you to put a shortcut on the desktop like Windows does, or is it better to do so anyway like Android does, leaving you then having to delete it? And some geeks may prefer control over things like the installation location.)

Not sure what in particular you mean by sandboxing(?) but the security model for applications vastly improved since Vista - applications no longer have write access to wherever they like.

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Re: Balmer plays the sceptic

By "appliance", you mean an oversized phone, or indeed Internet tablet or media player (which is what ARM handheld computing devices were called before 2010 - there were plenty of tablets in 2009, they were just categorised as media players).

However, you'll have a hard time explaining the crucial difference between "appliance" and computer, since people evidently want to run software on these "appliances". Is it somehow better because it's locked down? Well no, because Android is far more popular a platform on handheld "appliances".

Today's phones and tablets are just as theoretically vulnerable from security issues and viruses. I've not seen evidence that tablets are easier to use by computer ignorant people - the people buying these things are computer literate, and in my experience, people who aren't computer literate are still more comfortable with a keyboard than a touchscreen. And tablet OSes get updates all the time, how is that any different to service packs?

Plenty of us still want general purpose computers, but it's not clear to me how locking something down makes things *better*. An appliance is just a word people use, as a justification for why Ipads can't do hardly anything useful.

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Re: Slightly OT

Not quite:

NT started out as 3.1 (to match with the DOS Windows versioning), before going onto later versions such as 4.

Windows 2000 was version 5, with XP being 5.1.

And here's the fun thing - although "7" might obviously follow on from Vista being 6, the actual version of Windows 7 is 6.1!

I'm not sure if Windows 8 is Windows 7 or Windows 6.2 though...

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Re: Sarcasm?

It's obviously the Apple benchmark of success, where selling less than the other platforms counts as an amazing runaway success that makes you market leader...

Whilst what you say is true, I'm not sure I would say they were "blistered". And whilst the Wii sold more, it's still a hefty advantage have, especially when you factor in PC gaming too, and something that Apple or Google don't have.

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Re: No

Based on current trends, Samsung will have a phone with 32GB RAM in 4 years' time... (x86 netbooks meanwhile will still have 1GB, maybe 2GB if we're lucky.)

(Seriously though, not sure what point you are making? Most PCs don't have those specs; x86 Windows tablets will have comparable specs to ultra-portable laptops though).

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Megahertz myth, and core myth :)

I'm not saying you're wrong - given the latest generation of consoles is quote old now, and phones are perhaps less than 10 years old, it's not that unfeasible. But it would be interesting to see benchmarks (indeed in general, I'm curious to see how well ARM does against x86, or how well the phone GPUs do against desktop/laptop or console GPUs - anyone have a reference to benchmarks? All we hear is talk of how many cores things have, which is even worse than the megahertz myths of 10 years ago).

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Re: If it's an advantage it's one they're squandering

"Why MS isn't going full steam ahead with that platform I don't know."

Well they are - but why they aren't going ahead only with x86 is presumably cost. The x86 Surface (and i5 tablets in general) will be more expensive, and ARM allows them a way into the ultra-low end of tablets.

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"has started to fade as Apple and Android increasingly invade the enterprise through smartphone adoption"

The idea that Windows PCs will lose out to phones in the workplace is even more barmy than the idea I should be doing my work on a 10" tablet :) (For phones, platforms other than MS have always had a good presence, long before Apple turned up late *cough* Blackberry, Symbian *cough*.)

But yes, a good article. I had thought, given that tablets are natural for (at least some genres of) games, and MS has strength in both console gaming and PC gaming, it seems an obvious thing for them to push. Indeed, I was surprised that the Surface launch seemed so business-oriented, when an MS gaming tablet would seem perfect.

Also very appealing for developers - currently supporting platforms like Android and IOS means dealing with completely different languages (even if they both support OpenGL, the different languages is a far bigger problem). But imagine the same C# and DirectX codebase running on XBox, Windows PCs, and x86 and ARM Windows tablets...

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Google to axe IE 8 support, cuts off Windows XP lifeline

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Re: XP isn't the latest, but maybe the best

I prefer 7 to XP - faster to launch programs (just type the name at the start bar, rather than having to navigate through menus, or have dozens of shortcuts); faster to boot; better 64 bit support; seems more resistent to graphics driver crashes (a graphics driver crash on XP would crash the OS, where as 7 seems to be able to recover); better security model (programs no longer have permissions to do what they like), an additional side-benefit of which is that user data is now stored in user space rather than program folders, making it easier to back up.

I don't see what's wrong with Windows 8? Even if you aren't interested in the benefits (which aren't all to do with tablets, incidentally) and there's no point in upgrading, I don't see why it's worse? Honest question. I've tried the previews, and they work fine still with keyboard/mouse (you don't have to use the Metro stuff, and the start screen works just like the start menu in Windows 7, just giving you more space).

What about Windows 2000? I remember when XP came out, the geeks saying 2000 was much better than XP, which just had stuff that you had to turn off (and I myself ran 2000 for years, rather than XP). I find it funny that XP is now hailed as being the best MS OS...

Indeed, on that note I could say the same about the XP start menu, I find it odd the way this is now hailed as being some wonderful thing. I remember all the fuss from MS with Windows 95, and I couldn't see what was so good about it - just an awkward menuing system. I'm glad to see it replaced in Windows 7 with something that actually works well.

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Apple 'hasn't really run out of iPhone 5s AT ALL'

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For comparison, Android is now at about one million smartphones per day. All Year Round.

At first you might say, wow, now Iphone will gain at twice that rate - but this is not all year round. Firstly you've got included in that figure loads of people who have been waiting for months to order one - indeed, let's remember that rumours of the Iphone 4SS, sorry, 5, have been going in the media for a staggering 18 months now. Secondly, the evidence is that the Iphone sales are very seasonal, being high shortly after a new release, but tailing off for the rest of the year.

Interesting how years ago, we'd hear about "Android vs Iphone" in the media, so they could say Iphone was most popular (conveniently forgetting that it was actually Symbian number one, and Blackberry number two for much of that time) - but now, you hardly ever hear about it. That wouldn't be so bad it if was because everyone knew that Android was miles ahead - but with so many websites and companies still only catering for Iphone, and every other TV advert seemingly saying "Works with Iphone" "Get this on the App Store" etc, some people don't seem to have got the memo.

No, instead today, we hear irrelevant comparisons of how Apple's sales compare well to just one single phone out of thousands of Android devices.

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Re: Why is someone clearly wrong?

Indeed, and IIRC Samsung Galaxy S3 pre-orders were near 10 million. Plus that is just one of many Samsung models. Even if there is truth, it just biases things towards Apple, where people seem more likely to buy the latest one the moment it appears, but also, the fact that there's only one phone released a year means everyone on that platform is more likely to buy all at once. With Android, phones are released all year round, so you don't have to wait ages, then rush out and buy it.

The flip side is that whilst Apple may do better in the "X sold in Y days", their sales do far more poorly later in the year, whilst Android phones are solid all the year round. Where's the publicity for "Apple's sales drop by a massive 10 million, whilst Samsung's rise to 50 million, now twice that of Apple's", as happened in Q2 2012?

All the pre-order and first week stats are pretty meaningless, and it's all spin and marketing how they are used. If we care about sales, just look at the quarterly sales figures that are published (e.g., look up on Gartner). And make sure we do it every quarter, rather than just publicising it only the quarter after Apple release a new phone.

Also consider how the media will spin Apple's sales as being great, independent of any measure of how good it really is. E.g., remember the "one million sold in 76 days" for the original Iphone? That's nothing - it's nothing now (Nokia's first WP phone managed the same sales figures, but was viewed as poor by the media!) and it was nothing back then (Nokia were selling 10-20 million Symbian smartphones a quarter). In general, it's nothing - Samsung and Nokia sell a million phones *a day*, all year round, so Apple doing it in 76 days is poor, especially when it was after a product launch that was massively hyped for months by the media. But no, despite this, "one million in 76 days" was for years hailed as some kind of almighty benchmark.

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Office to propel Windows tablets past Android in 2015

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The whole thing about "ecosystem" is just odd anyway - I've seen this a few places, talking as if MS are struggling to build up an "ecosystem". Er, last time I looked, the wealth of software is an area where MS lead. It's why backwards compatibility is so important to them (of course this won't be an advantage they have for Windows RT, but Windows 8 x86 will be available too, including for tablets). It's just we didn't use buzzwords like "ecosystem", which as far as I can tell is marketing speak for "I'm going to claim this new platform has an advantage, but I can't explain what it is".

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Re: Presumably this analyst is unaware that Google owns Quick Office

The issue is presumably more compatibility, and what businesses are used to. Otherwise they'd already all be using free Google docs.

Also put your argument the other way. Android (and Windows come to that) is just as well placed to compete with IOS tablets. So by that logic, Android (and Windows 8 when it's out) should have just as much share, right? (I wish that was true.)

Indeed, a key part is: "they simply need to publicise the availability of their respective Office-software more than they do now."

Well that seems to be the problem sadly right now that Android has - a complete lack of advertising or awareness. There's no "simply" about this when it comes to marketing to billions of potential customers. Apple will do okay, as the mainstream media will as usual just cover their products for free, explaining how they can be used for office work, as if there was no alternative. Plus who do you mean by "they"? The companies currently making Android tablets are also the ones planning to make Windows tablets. And Google still seem hung up on advertising Chrome for business use...

I'm not defending Windows here - I'm just saying it's a sad state of affairs that results in the market place are to do with a lot more than simply the product itself. (I'm sure not everyone here thinks Windows is best on the desktop...)

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"You really think that all companies will scrap their desktops, keyboards and mice and kit everyone out with tablets?"

Presumably the idea is to replace laptops. And since many if not most the x86 tablets are actually laptop hybrids with touchscreens, this argument seems to work in their favour - and work against Apple, who *do* want people to scrap their desktops, keyboards and mice (unless it's an Apple PC. For some reason their own argument doesn't apply to them).

And as I say above, I hardly think this is a pro-MS piece, even if it isn't favourable to Android. If anything, it's a pro-Apple piece - "Look how we'll be untouched by Windows and maintain our lead, the decline we've had isn't going to continue at all, honest! Only Android is going to suffer!"

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Just pointing out - there will be x86 tablets (and hybrids) with the full Windows 8. Windows RT seems to be more aimed at consumers, with x86 tablets/hybrids targetted at businesses (which also ties into the greater need for keyboards, as others have pointed out are useful).

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Re: Wishful thinking.

If this really was biased towards MS, one would wonder why they would be keen to paint Apple in such a positive light, and suggest that MS is only capable of taking market share from Android. If I was going to make up a pro-MS prediction, surely you'd show (a) a further decline for Apple, and (b) with MS taking share from both platforms.

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Well, I love my Samsung netbook too, but remember that many of the Windows tablets, including the Surface, will have keyboards, and are really hybrids (indeed, the whole debate of "PC vs tablet" will be a bit moot, and all these predictions about market share are meaningless without clearly defined categories).

I've been disappointed at the way that netbooks seem to have stagnated, so I'm hopeful that things will improve - even though I'm not so fussed about a pure tablet (I already have a smartphone for that), I think a hybrid device will be great as an upgrade from my current netbook - still having a keyboard, but even more portable, and with the next generation of Atom (which will have the GPU integrated onto the CPU). The advantages that are being made for tablets (such as improving battery life, or still being able to poll the network whilst asleep) will be beneficial for those of us who like keyboards too. A touchscreen is a useful addition, to complement the keyboard and touchpad. And maybe we'll also at last see netbooks with more than 1GB RAM and 1024x600 :) (As well as perhaps a return to using fast SSDs.)

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On that graph, Apple's share has been falling. When Nokia's market share fell for years, all we heard from the media was doom and gloom about how awful they were, and how wonderful 3rd or 4th place Apple were for increasing their share, conveniently not mentioning how Nokia were number one until 2011.

Yet here we have the same situation for Apple with tablets - do we get negative coverage for Apple, and positive for Android? No, all we get is constant reminders of Apple being number one! I predicted this would occur, but it's sad to see the double standard and bias.

"The reason, Chiou says, is that Android's various backers cannot match Apple's slick hardware or content offerings."

Well, I stopped reading there.

How come Android dominates on phones (which are tablets, just with the added phone functionality), now by a factor of 4 to 1 to Iphone, which has never been number one? Indeed, when you view all tablets (with and without phones) together, I assume Android still wins. Are they admitting that Iphones can't match the slick Android hardware and content offering?

And even if they are, why is the situation reversed between phones and tablets?

No, the reason Apple does better is simply because they get vast amount of hype and free advertising from the media, which they got even before the Ipad was announced (remember "Islate"?) The only tablets to come close to that hype has been the Kindle Fire (only released in some markets) and the Nexus 7 (only recently released), and even then, the hype pales into comparison. It seems like every other website and TV advert has an obligitory mention for "get this for your Ipad", "works on your computer, phone and Ipad" etc.

They've also got far better support in the shops - seems like every shop has Ipads, whilst until recently, it was hard to find anything but cheap no-name Android tablets in Maplin.

So most people simply aren't even aware that there are comparable tablets - in some cases, people seem to be aware of the cheaper 7" Android tablets, but not the higher end 10" tablets.

On phones, Apple don't have this advantage as much (I mean, they've had the same free media hype for years, but at least people are aware of the other platforms, and you can walk into a phone shop and buy more than just Apple). And surprise, Apple's performance there is appalling compared to the market leaders (Symbian, and now Android).

When it's actually a fair market, let's see how well platforms do. (And this is probably an area where Windows has a better chance, since it will get more coverage than Android tablets - I hope so, anyway.) Even as things are, it seems odd to claim that after falling since 2010, Apple's share will then hardly change at all, even with the entrance of Windows 8. This is even more bizarre if the market size grows - I mean, if hundreds of millions of people want Ipads, why don't they already have one?

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Ten iPhone 5 challengers

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Re: A bit OT, but...

Whilst at first I was a bit surprised that my Galaxy Nexus didn't come with any PC software, the point is that it supports the open standard of MTP. So you can drag and drop, but if you prefer software that syncs, you can do that - using any software you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol has some details. So you can use Windows Media Player to sync for example, and I'm sure there's plenty of other software if you don't like what MS offer.

As far your last question, I don't see why one should have to buy everything from one single company. Unless you like locking yourself in. Why wouldn't one move to Android like most other people, rather than an Apple phone?

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