1700 posts • joined Thursday 18th June 2009 13:17 GMT
But controlling another computer via a phone is something that's been done for years too, and is obvious (e.g., all the "remote control" applications you get for Android and Symbian). And since voice recognition is old hat too, it's not clear to me why doing the controlling of a phone via voice recognition is suddenly patent-worthy.
"and for something I carry with me every day and use for several hours a day the cost is reasonable."
I wish I had a phone I could carry with me every day, and use for several hours a day. I wondered what amazing features the Iphone had to justify the highest price - well, that's amazing.
Sorry, wrong - you can use an Android phone for as long as you want. Yes after 5 years you might not get the latest OS, but when it would run awful anyway, I'm not sure that's high up my list of concerns.
I don't speak Apple so don't know what this "Applecare" is (why do they have to give names to completely ordinary things - can't you speak in English rather than Apple trademarks?), but if you mean they offer some kind of insurance, then you can get that for any phone. If you haven't even tried it, you're in no position to make assumptions about how it compares. Plus there are bad stories about Apple's insurance too - e.g., a case where we had to pay them to repair something, even though we'd already also paid the insurance.
Re: Why not buy a much better Samsug Galaxy S3 today?
Iphone has the same problem - whilst you might get the latest OS, the older hardware then has trouble supporting it, or they just cut out features. I'd rather that manufacturers take the time to decide if a phone is capable of running it. Plus even if the OS still runs, the applications get more advanced - e.g., apparently something as simple as a Facebook app now struggles on an original Iphone.
I'm on a 24 month contract, and have no intention of upgrading before then. Indeed the idea is laughable. With Android software and hardware so far ahead, there is no need to keep upgrading so often, anyway. Compare with Iphone, where you have to wait a year or so to upgrade to get features like copy/paste or multitasking.
Not sure what you mean by fragmented. The hardware on my Samsung is just fine, as is the software.
Re: Why not buy a much better Samsug Galaxy S3 today?
No, the Iphone has never been the number one platform. It was Symbian until 2011, then Android. Latest figures show Android approaching 70%, Iphone at 16% and falling. Even on Samsung Android alone, they're outselling Apple 2 to 1. (And please don't tell me you're using the fallacy of comparing individual models, which is completely arbitrary depending on how you categorise each phone, and biases Apple who call all their phones "Iphone" - it tells us nothing about what people are buying in general. Although yes, the fact that we're at the stage now where even just one single model of thousands of Android devices is now selling on par with Apple's entire phone range, is quite amusing.) Sorry, those are the facts.
The idea that the Iphone is for the masses and only geeks buy other platforms is a myth - if anything, it's the reverse: the masses have bought platforms like Symbian and Android, whilst the Iphone gets more support from the kind of geek who only owned a 10 year old dumb phone before (and so is amazed that they can, say, send an email on a phone, or access a website).
Re: Why not buy a much better Samsug Galaxy S3 today?
Never had a problem with Android, applications just work fine for me. Plus I don't have to deal with the UI-disaster that is Itunes, which doesn't "just work" in my experience. And I'm running the latest Jelly Bean. I also get loads of things as standard, rather than having to wait years whilst the platform plays catchup (Finally get copy/paste? Where's the free sat-nav?)
Iplayer also works fine, though if it didn't, the fault would lie with the BBC for catering for the minority of Apple users over the far more popular Android platform.
And Flash - since when did Apple get that support?
Re: Why not buy a much better Samsug Galaxy S3 today?
An S3 still fits in a pocket though, which is really the limiting factor for portability. I've got the Galaxy Nexus (only 4.65", but actually pretty much physically the same size as an S3), and I never go "Oh dear, I don't have room to take my phone". It's portable, and goes with me everywhere.
An Ipad is just too big. It isn't at all portable like a phone. If I've got room for a 10" device, I'll take my far more functional Samsung netbook.
Also by your logic, if I want to watch something on a big screen, I'll view it on my 17" Clevo or 42" LG TV. But just as there's a place for 10" devices, there's a place for devices bigger than 3.5", but smaller than 10".
Re: Why not buy a much better Samsug Galaxy S3 today?
If someone doesn't need one that big, they don't need a new phone at all, by the same logic. If you're not upgrading, then you're also a lost customer for Apple, so that still doesn't help them.
(There are also plenty of smaller non-Apple smartphones already available if one doesn't want one that's so big. Though I do have to recommend giving it a go - I quickly got used to the large size, and now anything smaller than 4.3" looks like an aging feature phone.)
Re: Why does anyone care? Serious question.
But then we should criticise the media, who for years have perpetuated this myth that people are obsessively waiting for the next Apple product release, or queuing up for hours, etc. I'd gladly see an end to all the hysteria whipped up by the mainstream press, which just gives free advertising to Apple, when most people - including the customers themselves, as you say - don't actually care.
Increased resolution is not "revolutionary" - and it only looked a big step, because earlier models had appallingly low resolutions (e.g., Nokia had higher 640x360 much earlier). The main advantage of the Iphone 4 is that they had finally added in all of the basic features that other platforms had had for years, so finally it was a viable choice for mainstream use (and indeed, it was with the Iphone 4 that sales finally rose, and became comparable to some other platforms). But that's not a revolution, rather just finally catching up.
Re: As a non phone gadged freek...
Probably because Apple get by far the biggest amount of hype and coverage from the media.
I agree, they're just doing what other companies do. I'd be happy if everyone realised it, and reported about them just like any other company. (Also I'd add that most of the "hate" in the comments seems to be coming from existing Iphone users who are now annoyed by the announcement - which is certainly interesting if this is an indication of consumer reaction in general.)
Re: Could be in Nokia's interest
Nokia had the number one smartphone platform until early 2011, when they were overtaken by Android. This was when they announced the WP transition. They have everything to lose - I'm not saying it was the wrong decision, but certainly Nokia are taking a bold risk here. In the mobile market, Nokia are still in second place, ahead of Apple who are in third. The idea that Apple are the popular ones and Nokia have nothing to lose makes no sense.
I'd also add that Nokia are only a phone company, unlike Apple or Samsung, so in that sense, they also have a lot more to lose if things don't go well for them in phones - they have nothing as a backup.
Android is way ahead of Iphone in terms of market share. If Apple's attitude really was that they don't need to innovate, then they deserve to lose.
Re: Apple! You just bricked my Zeppelin FFS
It does seem bizarre how an entire audio industry has built up around "let's make connectors only for Apple devices". I guess it stems from the Ipod, but it does seem frustrating that the less popular Iphone platform is supported over more popular platforms like Android.
The bizarre effect of this is that TVs now provide far better audio support if you aren't locked into Apple. My new LG TV can happily stream music from any device, using open standard. All the audio devices for this that I saw advertised only told me about what Apple protocols they worked with, or would require physically connecting in an Apple-only product (and even if I had an Apple tablet, the idea that I would play music by having to walk over and physically connect it is quite comical - with my Windows laptop and LG TV, I just play it remotely, and it just works). Why can't we see more support for open standards, both wireless, and for physical connectors (e.g., USB).
So if Apple have now broken compatibility, they've given up one advantage that they had.
As someone who uses and likes Android, my first thing to note would be: I can't edit a Word document at all! Come to that, I was surprised to see that there isn't even a notepad application as standard. I downloaded one, though it doesn't even do formatting. There's probably some that do, if I wade through the adware and crap - maybe even one with Word compatibility.
So even with the UI not perfect, I don't think that's much to criticise WP for :)
I could pick holes in the UI of Android, so I don't think this is much of a factor in market share.
Re: Don't Panic!
The one to watch would be Tizen - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen - which has support from market leader Samsung, so who knows. It's a Linux based OS that borrows from Meego (though it's unclear to me if this is Linux in the sense that Meego is, i.e., a Linux distribution on a phone, or in the sense that Android is, i.e., just using the Linux kernel).
Re: Don't Panic!
I agree. Whilst I like Android being the dominant platform, and I'm glad it's got a *massive* lead over the closed and limited Iphone platform, I still hope WP does well. Firstly competition is good, secondly, it'd be a bit sad if the only alternative to Android becomes Iphone.
Remember that up until 2011, we had the two dominant platforms of Symbian and Android, with Iphone behind, or par with the likes of Blackberry. So if Nokia's switch to WP basically means the loss of a complete mainstream platform, replaced by something that isn't used as much, then that would be sad.
I find it sad to see Android fans showing a knee jerk opposition to anything to do with WP. Also I find it sad to see Apple fanatics telling us that we should be thankful to Apple for providing competition - but they are never ever thankful of other companies, and often don't even acknowledge their existence (ever see Symbian covered in the mainstream press, despite it's massive success over Apple?)
Re: Apple fears Windows 8...
Since when was software hardcoded at a particular resolution?
Generally speaking, it's no trouble writing apps to scale at different resolutions. Of course there will be some that have trouble or are dumb, but then this argument applies to other platforms too.
How do you think Android manages with HD resolution phones, when there are so many older or lower end phones still on sale with postage stamp resolutions like 320x240 or 480x320? When Iphone 4 was released, did you claim that because all the applications were written for the tiny low resolution of earlier Iphones, that they would all look crap on newer Iphones?
Re: Apple fears Windows 8...
"Unfortunately, Apple/Google changed the mindset of stone set OSs in smartphones and allowed longitivity with their associated hardware products."
Not really, phone updates had been done for years.
"Anyway, when have Apple ever been feared of their competition?"
Apple are no different to anyone else. When Apple do something, we hear Apple fanatics tell us how the competition have to respond. Well, Apple react to their competition too, and would be stupid not to be paying attention. I don't think "fear" is the right word for a company, but similarly, no other company fears Apple or anyone else either.
No software for Windows?
"The success or otherwise of Windows 8 is going to be built around applications ... the Windows 8 application cupboard is looking quite bare at the moment"
*boggle* Anyone would think the Reg have completely forgotten that Windows 8 is perfectly backwards compatible with the vast amount of Windows software?
Of course if we're talking Windows RT, then that's a different matter. And yes, there's a need for new touch-optimised software for Windows x86 tablets too. But Windows 8 will have loads of apps just like every previous versions of Windows have had apps. Windows software will Just Work fine, you don't need a special "Windows 8 app" to run.
If the predictions about increases in tablet devices are true, then there'll be demand for people to write new applications anyway. And if not, it won't matter, as people using Windows 8 on non-tablet devices will just use the wealth of software already there.
Whether people will use Microsoft's site is another matter too - but a lack of software on that doesn't mean a lack of software for Windows, since unlike one other platform, you're free to download from wherever you like. Though I've yet to find out what the real story for Windows RT, or "Metro" on x86 Windows - are they locked down so you can only install from MS? I've heard opinions one way and the other, and no official sources on this yet. The idea that MS could have so much control over software distribution is worrying - but now that Apple have been not criticised, and even praised for doing this very thing, means they can get away with it.
"will also need to get mobile developers onboard fast if the Windiws 8 is going to get close to the appeal of Mac OS X, Android, or even BlackBerry"
Another blooper. Mac OS X on mobile? (Yes, I know IOS and Mac OS X run the same kernel, but an Iphone is not a Mac - I haven't heard that myth in about 5 years.)
Re: Coveted item
Hardly - seems like they can't even give them away, the number of "Win a free Ipad"s I've seen is ridiculous. Though I'm sure he can find some fanatic to pay full price for it.
Re: Coveted item
If it had been an Android tablet - or TV, or laptop, or any other make of device, it would simply have been referred to by the medias "tablet","TV", "laptop" etc. But when it's an Apple product, the media always advertise it by name: "Ipad", "Istale", "Iphone", "MacProBookMacPro" etc.
Seriously, just take a look next time the media refer to some products, in any context. The amount of unfair free product placement advertising Apple get is absurd. It's particularly painful when you read two items together, e.g., the media refer to "his Mac and phone" or "her laptop and Iphone", so you can be sure it's not just a coincidence, it really is Apple always getting a special advert. Yet despite all this free advertising, they fail - outsold by Windows on the desktop, Android (or even Samsung and Nokia) on mobile.
Re: Free and I still like it
If you think an ancient 3GS is a good phone, that shows the level of expectation that is being dealt with here.
So the Iphone gets scored highly by it's users either because "wow I can send an email", or they're fanatical about Apple. The rest of us realise you could do that on 8 year old feature phones, and so have higher expectations. I could pick holes in my Samsung Galaxy, but that doesn't mean I don't consider my Samsung Galaxy a far better device that anything from Apple - and it's absurd to discount my opinion, just because I'm not fanatical about it.
If I want to know how satisfying something is, then I'll go by what *I* think - I don't give a crap about what a survey about how other people think. (Although it doesn't surprise me that sheep do think this way.)
And if we want to know how successful companies or platforms, then sorry, all that matters is sales. Iphone "so" successful? If you say so. If being the least popular platform is successful, sure. But the number one platforms are Symbian and now Android. Android outsells Iphone 2 to 1 on Samsung Android phones alone. By company, Samsung and number one, and Nokia are number two.
Sorry, most people prefer other products. Sure they don't own Apple - but that's because they don't want one! It's absurd logic to twist it that to say because people choose to buy platform A over platform B, that therefore we should ignore their opinion! All this shows is that Apple users are more fanatical about their products, which we already know. It doesn't make them better. It also flawed logic to say that it would make a product successful - I'm sure there are still people fanatical about their Amigas, but that doesn't make the Amiga successful today.
This is yet another case of "hand picked stat to make Apple look best". Please take your astroturfing and free advertising elsewhere - are Apple paying the Reg for this? They should be.
It is indeed sad that companies write apps for the least popular platform - if they had those applications for Android, you'd have greater choice, you'd be able to run it on a decent sized screen, and they'd get far more of a market.
Re: Some people
Most of the time, it's Apple users who make it an issue - either bragging about them having an Apple logo (even though the rest of us don't care, and prefer using more popular platforms), or even criticise other people for using something different. I once had strangers butt into our private conversation in a pub and go "Oh, we don't care about your open source OS, we've got Iphones". Sorry mate, we don't give a shit.
Re: but I thought I just read that Samsung sells more phones than Apple.
Bentley may beat Ford, but Apple don't beat Samsung.
And if the issue isn't about sales, why does the article talk about that issue at all? If you want to claim "The Iphone isn't as successful as other platforms, but the few who buy it like it more", then sure, that's it up. But I'm part of the majority of people who love and use other platforms.
The article puts forward the (poor) logic of "Iphones sell a lot, because people like them" - well sorry, people like Android, Samsung and Nokia even more so, which all sell more than Iphones.
Also next time an Apple fan points out that Apple sell more 10" tablets, I'll point out that therefore they're like Ford. People might buy more Ipads, but that doesn't mean they are satisfied by them - by your own logic.
Re: Smartphone/touch screen history
I don't recall drop downs on web browsers on even 2005 feature phones.
Even if that was true, so what - it's one single feature. Lots of improvements have been made over the years, by many companies - evolution, not revolution. Introducing one single thing isn't the only thing that matters. We're fed up of Apple fans hand picking whatever minor thing that Apple once did five years ago, and portraying it as the most important thing ever, whilst being oblivious to all the important innovations made by everyone else.
And only Apple and MS think about HCI? I could pick holes in plenty of things about Apple UIs, like the disaster that is Itunes. My Sansa Just Works. Similarly, just because you can pick holes in other companies, doesn't mean they don't think about HCI - Apple are no better than anyone else here.
Re: AC @ 14:28
Plus if they were the largest, can the media and fans please stop talking about Apple as if they were some small startup? "Ooh, isn't it amazing that the largest company can, with tonnes of free media hype, sell a few million of a product. Let's praise Apple endlessly for that. Never mind that every other multinational routinely sells millions even with no free hype. Apple obviously deserve special credit, because they manage to do that whilst only being the world's largest company."
Re: AC @ 14:28
That's shareholder valuation, which only an idiot would count as "largest".
Yet another case of hand-picked statistic to make Apple look best. Who was most valuable before Apple, and how come we never heard about that? Once again, a stat is only news if it makes Apple look good, which suggests that actually, no one cares about the statistic. (And it's hardly surprising that Apple will do better on "valued" - no shortage of Apple fanatics to buy as many shares as possible. Apple are also the most hyped and shilled company in history, but sorry, I don't consider that anything to be proud about.)
Samsung are way bigger by any sensible measure that's relevant to consumers - e.g., sales. Shares only matter if you're a shareholder, and if you are, you're a shill.
Re: Tumbleweed Moment
And wait - did you really praise Apple for releasing something slightly better than what you had *7 to 8 years* earlier? Wow.
Meanwhile, my 2012 Samsung Galaxy is miles better than a 2007 Iphone (only five years earlier, so less of a gap). Apple are obviously crap, and it's Samsung that revolutionised everything, by your logic.
Re: Tumbleweed Moment
False, I had a resistive Nokia 5800, worked fine with touch. Resistive has advantages, such as ability to be used with pen *in addition* to touch, and works when you're wearing gloves.
Even if we agreed that capacitive was overall better, the difference is minor - the advantage of touchscreen is far bigger than the additional advantage of capacitive.
If you wanted to credit Apple for being first with capacitive (which also was something inevitable, as they didn't invent it, they just happened to be first to market), big deal - that's one minor thing that Apple did first, compared to loads of things that everyone else did first.
Moreover, that's not what the OP said. He didn't say capacitive, he just said touch in general. I don't know if you have an inability to read properly, or you're just misleadingly backpedalling.
"it had a profound effect on some people"
Yes it turned people into fanatical shills.
Like you. The rest of your post is just fanatical worship. You could say the same about many other companies, including Nokia, Motorola, Palm, Samsung etc. So no, I'm not going to "look up the story", listen to what you say at all - not until I hear you praising those other companies, who have achieved just the same things.
Industry defining? Get real. One minor improvement in 5 years of phone releases does not "define" an industry - the other companies have done far more to define the phone industry, including years before Apple turned up to the party late with their dumb phone that couldn't even run apps.
Re: Tumbleweed Moment
Given that the first Iphone couldn't even run apps, I think S40 is more deserving of the title "smartphone" than Apple phones.
Yes plenty of people use smartphones for simple things. Same applies for plenty of people buying Apple phones. "Smart phone" is just a marketing term, with no objective distinction between them and "feature phones". There's no objective definition that includes the original Iphone, but not 2005 era feature phones - let alone S40 in 2012.
Re: Without the income
It was a marketing blooper from Nokia (supposedly), but there's plenty of evidence and reports that Nokia make damn good cameras in their phones.
I do agree it's sad the way that some companies get tonnes of free advertising from the media, whilst most get none, even if they sell far more. And it's Apple who benefit by far - Samsung have only got coverage after they've become immensely successful (the number one company - though Nokia got ignored when they were number one), whilst Apple got wall-to-wall hype about the Iphone from before it was even released, even though it's never been the number one platform, or they the number one company. Same with Ipads - ridiculous hype even before it was *announced*. It only sells better because most people aren't even aware of alternatives - including from Samsung, whose tablets are also ignored by the media.
Sad. Every other advert seems to have a "Get this on your eyyyyephone", despite it's appalling 16% share, compared to Android's near 70% (with Symbian being number one before Android).
I saw a hilarious article from the Telegraph about the Lumia 920 being Nokia's last chance to enter the market. WTF? A tech journalist so dumb, he wasn't aren't aware Nokia were the leader in phone/smartphones for years until 2011, and still are number two? The question now is more how they will do with WP. Might as well say that Windows 8 is MS's last chance to enter the operating system market.
But that's the thing - it's hilarious how Apple fans continually have to spin things, to make it so that Apple Apple Apple is what we only ever hear about. Yeah, sure we should thank Apple for wanting ARM for the Newton, I'm sure Acorn would never had developed their CPU without Apple, obviously they're too stupid for that(!) Never mind their own RISC PC, or the endless embedded uses of ARM in the 90s, or the billions of phones and smartphones that were sold in the 90s and 2000s, years before johnny-come-lately Apple joined the party.
I'll thank Apple, the day I hear Apple fans thanking all the other companies, be it ARM, or Samsung, Nokia, MS, Intel etc. But I never ever do.
The fact that Samsung etc also use ARM is irrelevant - people don't go on and on falsely crediting Samsung for creating the CPUs.
"Getting ready for the inevitable downvotes from fandroids who downvote anything that praises Apple or calls out anti-Apple bullshit."
I couldn't give a damn about Android, I'm just tired about constant Apple advertising that we get rammed down our throats, day in, day out.
Er, I assume the OP is talking about ending any contracts - obviously any already made might as well still be sold to Apple, but Samsung could then stop making any more for them.
Designed by ARM, manufactured by Samsung. Apple just stick a logo on it, and get all the credit from the media.
Yes, it does depress me that companies cater for the minority of Apple users, and not the far larger number of people using more popular platforms - Android on mobile, Windows on 10" or larger. Even today, with Android at nearly 70% share, and Iphone around 16%, I still see adverts advertising "Get this on your Iphone" (or "even on your eyyyyyephone" as the Sky adverts tell me - sorry, like most people, I don't have one).
I remember a few years ago, the BBC got a lot of flak for supporting only Windows, and ignoring the 10% of Apple and Linux users. And it was right that they were criticised. Yet I'm disappointed at the lack of criticism when for mobile, they or other companies favour the 16% of Apple users, before anyone else - be it the dominant platform (Symbian and now Android), or others such as BlackBerry, Bada and WP.
Re: One app for both IS the problem
So what's going to happen if Apple release a 4" Iphone and a 7-8" Ipad Mini? Do all those app developers now have to redesign so they have *4* versions of every app? What a nightmare. Are you going to admit it will be a pain, as these new devices won't be able to properly run all the existing apps? Meanwhile, Android devices are written to scale - which is something that any competent UI programmer can do.
There is no "both" here - we have a full range of devices from 3" to 10" (or potentially larger). I'd much rather have the freedom of choice, and the only "both" is in Apple's limited product range - which will go out the window, if they ever release any additional devices, or change the sizes.
What taking advantage is there anyway? Ipads still run everything full screen. If I want a 10" device with a real OS optimised for a decent sized screen, I use my Samsung netbook. I can think of some ways that phone UIs could be optimised for larger screens, e.g., split-screens, but it's Samsung and MS doing that innovation, not Apple.
Also when Apple or fans advertise "app" numbers, they tend not to ignore all the Iphone ones. (And it occurs to me, if there are two versions of many apps, that suggests the numbers are going to be inflated anyway.)
Re: Google don't help themselves
"First of all, Google makes it b*st*rd hard to find tablet apps as, unlike Apple, it doesn't seem to put them in a separate category in their store (or at least it didn't)."
*boggle* What's a "tablet app"? Sorry, I don't see why an application is different just depending on whether the device is also a phone or not (since these days, that's the only difference between tablets and smartphones). It's the same platform. Your tablet may be a different size, but there's loads of sizes of both phones and tablets. With a continuum from 3" and 10", how many versions of my app do you think I should make, and how many categories should there be? Or maybe I should just make one that works on both.
You don't need a "tablet" version of my Android apps, because they work fine on any size. Maybe IOS can't cope with that, which is why you need categories - but that's not the case. Just download standard Android apps and enjoy it (plus if anything, you're more likely to run into problems if a phone is too small; making it bigger doesn't cause problems).
"Android isn't particularly gesture-based, and it isn't particularly intuitive. Try handing each tablet to a 70 year old."
What's a gesture? Yes, I'm sure someone unfamiliar with tablets is going to do fine with complex "gestures". I love this myth that Ipads are for elderly people - sorry, none of the people I see with Ipads are 70 year olds, they're all geeks or otherwise computer literate people, who already own PCs, laptops and smartphones, and often they're either Apple fanatics, or people who are completely unaware you can get other makes of tablets (since they receive virtually no media coverage, unlike Ipads which got loads even from before they were announced, and are available in far fewer shops).
Re: This is for several reasons
Do Ipads have SD card slots? Don't get me wrong, I dislike it when devices don't include them, but that can't be the reason for Android doing less well on tablets. Especially since plenty of tablets do have SD card slots. (Sure the Google tablet doesn't, but neither do the Google phones, and Android is doing amazingly well on phones.)
Re: The curse of the free
They may have marketed it that way, but I disagree it's fair to place Android in the same category of Linux[*]. Android Just Works at least as well as IOS, and I've seen people having problems with simple things on IOS. I'm like "But surely you just ..." and then realise this probably doesn't work on an Apple device.
And Android hasn't failed, it's the overwhelmingly dominant mobile OS, with smartphone share approaching 70%, whilst Iphone struggles at 16% and falling. It has succeeded, and it's Apple who desperately need a USP to do better. So there's no problem with Android and usability here - people are fine with it. Whatever problem on non-phone devices must have a different explanation.
[*] GNU/Linux, for the pedants who'll tell me that Android is Linux. Indeed, your post suggests we can lump Android with GNU/Linux just because they're the same kernel, which doesn't make sense at all.
Re: This is for several reasons
I agree that it's a shame there are missed opportunities, but Apple don't have a USP either - I think the bigger problem is that people simply aren't aware of the higher end or larger Android tablets. It's depressing to see people who love their Android smartphones, and like Android, and chose it over Apple (and it isn't simply a case of buying something cheaper) then thinking that the only choice for tablets is an Ipad. Part of the problem is that the only tablets that have previously been publicised are either cheap deals on crappy low end unknown-brand tablets, or the Kindle Fire which is only available in some markets, and can't access Google Play. Hopefully the Nexus 7 will change awareness, though that's still not a 7". Maybe Samsung with have better luck with the "Note" brandname (making it appear a 10" version of their successful phone).
"apps not optimised for tablets."
What does this mean though? Given phones now have HD resolutions, it's not clear why there's a difficulty. There's also a wide range of sizes, from 3" to 10", with everything in between, so it's not like you can solve this with just two versions. Yes it's true there's more scope for better UIs - e.g., at 10", why not have a full windowing environment rather than having to have all applications run full screen. But again, Apple don't have this either, with it being only Samsung to advance things with split screens. (Whilst I'm glad to see this progress by Samsung and MS, it does amuse me - like we're meant to be impressed by a tiled window manager that was done by computers years ago - maybe TouchWiz 5 and Windows 9 will also add overlapping windows...)
So wait, a device that has only just released, hasn't made much of a dent in years of sales of hundreds of millions of Android smartphones? Wow, I'm shocked.
Android is so overwhelmingly popular on smartphones, and smartphones in general are way more popular than tablets, that it's not surprising that the percentage of Android tablets compared to Android as a whole will be low - this doesn't mean a failing of the platform. To rate the success of the platform on tablets, we're better off looking at sales compared to other platforms (and by actual numbers, not percentages). So what are the latest sales figures for the Nexus 7?
Re: Will they apologise to shareholders for faking hope of success with microsoft?
Pwease won't somebody think of the poor shareholders!
Seriously, if you buy shares, you're in it to make money, and you do so taking a risk. Given how much doom and gloom there has been about Nokia in the press for years, despite their immense successes over that time, I hardly think shareholders have been misled in a positive direction. But if they don't like it, they're free to invest elsewhere, or maybe just open up a safe bank account like most people do.
There's explanation of this on All About Symbian / All About Windows Phone. Pureview is marketing speak for all their new camera technologies.
This kind of thing is standard when it comes to marketing/trademarks - otherwise you couldn't really market a phone with a long list of names after it, because it had more than one of those technologies... Calling it newspeak is unfair, unless you consider all marketing terms and trademarks to be newspeak. It's like pointing out that "Macs" aren't Macs at all, but are now a completely different platform, i.e., x86 PCs running OS X. Or consider the way Intel used to market CPUs by their model names, but now use umbrella marketing terms for low-end/high-end (i3/i5/i7) across multiple generations of CPU technology, and you have to look at the spec sheets to see which generation it is, or the CPU model.
Even when a WP does have the 808-style sensor, most expect they'll use a lower MP camera (say, 20MP) on a mainstream flagship device, to avoid the "bulge" it causes - would that be misleading too, because it's not as good as 41MP?
The problem would be if they'd used "Pureview" on a crap camera. Yes that would be misleading, and ultimately harm the value of that trademark. But there's no evidence on that yet. And surely it's good to see that they have more than one trick up their sleeve when it comes to interesting new camera tech, and not just that which was shown in the 808 - better that than them relying on only one single selling point (*cough*Retina*cough*). Hopefully we'll see one that has all of these (the reasons why we haven't seen a WP version of the 808 are apparently due to them still porting the driver code that did all the image processing of the 41MP image - seriously, I doubt Nokia are sitting around going "Ha, let's shaft our users by not including this technology", they're probably trying to get it working with WP ASAP).
Surely it's normal for adverts to only focus on some aspects - if they focused on the OS, you'd complain they had nothing to say about the camera. Other Nokia Lumia ads most certainly have prominently shown WP, so it's false to suggest they're hiding it.
The Samsung Galaxy phone ads don't seem to say anything about the OS. Those Apple laptop ads just go on about "Retina" without saying anything about the OS (or telling you what "Retina" is, come to that). Plenty of phone ads actually don't say much about features at all, instead just showing other marketing fluff.
Indeed this is normal for marketing - sad, yes, but it's yet another case of it's only bad publicity when Nokia do it (whilst the media are happy to ignore Nokia and focus on Apple Apple Apple, in all the years until 2011 when Symbian was outselling everything else massively).
Or possibly our expectations where just raised because the 808 videos *were* shot just on an 808 (leading some people to claim they were fake, but they were wrong).
I agree, wait for the reviews. Whilst this may not be 808-amazing-quality (which did have a bump on the phone to incorporate the camera, and is reportedly light years ahead of anything else), given Nokia's general quality with cameras (e.g., the N8), there's no reason to think this won't be a good quality camera too, whatever happened with the ads.
Re: MS need to shed Ballmer
Few people upgrade to the new version of Windows, they get it with new PCs. Sales may not be great in a recession, but there are still nonetheless sales in the millions.
For cheap phones, for current sales you probably mean S40 rather than Symbian (plus Samsung are rather big at the low end too).
I disagree most people buy phones entirely on applications, I'd say that's one of many many considerations (with Apple still the most supported for some reason, yet it has 16% share and falling, compared to Android's rising share now approaching 70%, so clearly this isn't a major consideration for most people). Also by that argument, Android and IPhone shouldn't have bothered, as at the start they had less software than existing platforms.
As for 7th or 8th, you'd have advised Apple not to enter the phones market? And how do you define a market? The market for Windows 8 PCs is pretty new.
It may be that everyone who wants to have a tablet already has one, but if that's true, Apple and Android tablet sales will drop off too. The failure of the Surface won't matter then to MS, because people will continue buying normal PCs, 90% of which will run Windows 8. However, it's sensible to enter into new markets, in case people do continue buying those types.
Also consider that this is not an oversized phone tablet which is all we've seen before, it (especially the Surface Pro) is a full blown Windows PC. We can debate whether people want such hybrids, but it's certainly not late to the market - we've yet to have such a thing at all (at least not in such a portable fashion - previous hybrids ended up being bulkier than normal laptops, rather than smaller).
And again you spout the Zune was a flop myth. It didn't become market leader, but that doesn't make it a flop. It's all spin - when Apple get 5% of a market, they're hailed as a runaway success; when MS get 10%, it's a "flop" just because it wasn't number one. (Also consider the massively successful X Box - despite, unlike Apple who get nothing but hype, people claiming that no one would ever want to buy an MS console.)
Is the Galaxy Camera available yet? If not, there's still the question of who'll get to the market first. Plus whilst the Galaxy Camera might be very close to a smartphone, given how it's got the bulkiness of a full camera (and not sure you can make phone calls on it), it's a bit contrived to pass it off as a cameraphone. It's not something that will sit in people's pockets all the time, nor is it as small as one.
I'm far more concerned at the entire media claiming Apple invented no end of firsts, including smartphones as a whole - especially when the first Iphone was a dumb phone (couldn't do apps).
Re: Nokia need to put out Android phones
Google's offline mapping is pretty disappointing - I was looking forward to this feature on my Galaxy, having loved the feature in Symbian, but found that the size of each offline map is limited to a city-sized area, and worse, you can only have a handful of them downloaded at any one time. The whole idea of limiting what you can store, when there's no constraint in memory, is annoying - reminds me of the limit on text messages my feature phone had 7 years ago, even though I had loads of memory on a microSD card. Why can't I just select countries or continents at a time? There's more than enough space on the phone. Android is a good OS, and Google maps has some advantages like the public transport directions, but offline maps is still something Nokia do better (plus remember you can still get the public transport directions on Google maps for other platforms anyway, it's just the sat nav that's limited to Android I believe).
"even if Nokia doubles its sales a year from now, that would still just be 14 million"
And this spin is laughable - in the very same paragraph, we're told how the breakdown by quarter was 1 million, 2 million, 4 million - doubling every quarter.
So even if *their sales now remain constant*, that's 4 million a quarter, or 16 million. Predicting there will be growth from that doesn't seem unreasonable, especially consider the current growth rate, plus there are other manufacturers too (Samsung stayed out of the WP market this year, but have now returned with high end S3-like offerings).
I don't care about WP. I do care about accurate reporting.
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