1859 posts • joined 18 Jun 2009
I agree, though just to note:
"The genius of Apple's catalogue is that nobody knew they wanted these things - iPad, iPod touch et al - until they saw one. Then they became overnight must-haves."
The "genius" is indeed marketing - and note this was not overnight, but there was vast amounts of free media hype for months before the products were even announced, let alone released.
Nor are their products overnight must haves, but grow just like any other product line. Just look at the iphone platform compared to other smartphone sales since 2007 - it wasn't until iphone 4 that sales were really anywhere near mainstream. In the early years they were behind even Windows Mobile. Or the original ipod only worked with Macs, and was a flop, only growing with later generations.
But I do agree that they are in a corner, now that the "computer" market is saturated with a continual range from small handheld to large full desktop, with everything in between, and no more gaps. Their mp3 player products will face increasing competition from smartphones and tablets (especially now that they changed connector messes up all the free unfair advantage they get from those making speakers and stereo systems in cars, by only working with ipods/iphones).
Of course there are other markets to enter - TVs, consoles, washing machines, and no doubt they'll get loads of media hype for any new product there, even though other companies have been doing the same thing just as well for years.
High quality fashion brands don't need to stick their logos everywhere (let alone make them light up) - people know what they are from the design itself, and if you don't know, you're not considered the target market (or so the argument goes - personally I find the whole "designer" thing a bit nonsense). But what they do is more like Adidas, with logos everywhere. No doubt the buyers think it makes them look cool, but that doesn't mean anyone else cares. If someone has, e.g., an Armani suit, you know (or don't know) because of the suit - not because there's "Armani" written in light up letters across the back. Similarly with watches - indeed, it's the cheap ones that put a logo there.
Re: A n o n y m o u s
"that hasnt changed the development pattern or profits for developers. iOS is still king."
Because there's plenty more for free on Android, which I'd say is a better thing. But remember it's not all about profit - many apps are free, because they're given away by companies for their websites, or to advertise a product or service. There the key thing is market share (or it ought to be - unfortunately a lot of ppl think that iphone is the largest platform, but eventually the truth will catch up).
"It hasnt changed the web usage either with the vast majority of web usage still done on iOs devices."
Citation needed. There are various tracking sites making various claims, though I've seen plenty that show Android on top, as well as ones showing other platforms like Nokia above iphone. There was only a short period a few years ago where iphone was top, but the other platforms quickly overtook.
The better comparison for that would be Google, who are now making money off of 75% of smartphone users (and rising) from the media and applications/games, without having to do much at all when it comes to making and selling hardware (even the Google branded devices are manufactured by other companies). They've also done very little advertising for Android, compared to the vast amounts for iphones/ipads.
Google also already have Google TV (which has had a slow start, but now seems to be being picked up by the TV manufacturers, particularly in the US now).
"Huge installed userbase" - so does just about any multinational company.
Plus who cares anyway. From a consumer point of view, I care little about which company makes more money - that just means they're the ones pocketing more of my money as profit, rather than functionality for me.
"She urged the companies again to settle, saying it would be good for customers and the industry if they did."
It would be good for customers and the industry to throw this out of court (as done in the UK and elsewhere).
If APPL can get a billion for double clicks and rounded rectangles, they're not going to accept a small amount as a settlement. And, never mind not being fair to Samsung, if they were to settle for a huge amount (or any non-trivial amount), this would neither be good for customers (higher prices, less choice) or the industry (they'd be going after everyone else, too).
Re: Did you learn nothing from the Samsung trial?
By this argument, nothing is obvious, because no matter when it was first done, I can say "Why wasn't it done before that". Unless we're talking about things that were done by the very first human, according to you, everything is non-obvious.
(The actual answer is that some things aren't required or possible to be done until the required underlying technology or market appears. At which point, there might be several obvious ideas that people then implement, but there will always be one that is first - that doesn't make it non-obvious.)
"Bellyaching here won't help."
But then you are posting here...
Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...
You are correct, but you're still in agreement that they aren't the same OS, rather it's the same kernel. He was arguing against the people claiming they are both "Linux", therefore both the same thing.
Re: Hackers would go after Windows phones...
I assume he means GNU/Linux[*], and is talking about the debate about malware on desktop operating systems, of the GNU Linux OSs, versus Windows. Yes, chances are there's less malware on an OS that isn't used as much, and more on one that is, but that argument applies to the desktop as well as mobile - you can't have your cake and eat it. It is kind of amusing that this argument is dismissed in debates about desktop OSs, but the moment it crops up on mobile, people jump at the chance to moan about MS. (Disclaimer, I'm an Android user, and love it.)
* - for all these years we thought that RMS was just being pedantic, but now that the most common OS using the Linux kernel isn't the same as the desktop operating systems we also call "Linux", he may well have had a point.
Re: Microsoft REALLY desperate now
MS: Make a few anti-Android tweets.
Certain other company: Agenda to destroy Android, by using software and design patents, already achieving court success at taking a billion dollars from leading Android companies, and banning Android products from sale.
There's certainly desperation here - but it's interesting to compare the levels of desperation at work here. I would hope that no one's persuaded to buy a product by these tweets; and I hope that people are actively put off buying a product by court actions.
Re: Fake nonsense statistics based on flawed samples
That's an interesting interpretation - perhaps it explains why people answered that way. Though it makes the information useless (how large is large? And okay, so I select the ones with large userbases - if that leaves me with 2 or more, and I pick one that's not the largest, it seems odd to say it's the most important criterion, rather than one of several criteria).
Re: What was it worth?
In fact it wasn't even the iphone - because the original iphone couldn't run applications! That didn't come until the "3G" in 2008 (by which time, even more manufacturers, including Nokia with Symbian, had started producing touchscreen smartphones than before).
I'm not sure what caused the craze - in particular, this craze that every company needs to have an "app" for their service or site, as opposed to more conventional uses of software. It's not clear it was having their own software distribution site - because even though every platform now has had that for years, iphone still gets catered for above all else.
Re: Fake nonsense statistics based on flawed samples
Would this be the same iphone developers that claim the main reason for choosing a platform is going for the largest installbase (see a recent Register article), when iphone has never been the largest mobile platform?
Yes, if they can't even look up something basic like sales, I'm not sure I'd trust them on something less easy to measure.
I agree it's old news, though in a way, I wouldn't want too many millionaires either - the idea that people could make loads of money from just writing any old rubbish doesn't seem right either.
What is sad though is the way that this myth has been spun about how you can make so much money on mobile (especially this myth is spread for iphone), which has caused a bandwagon effect, which still remains even though it ought to be clear that any "gold rush" stage has been past. There's also this myth about how it's possible for people to make it rich with little effort or zero marketing, when in practice, the winners are those that have had lots of marketing. This myth that the Internet makes things an equal stage, when in practice we see many of the same traditional problems to publishing and marketing still apply.
People are drawn in by the stories of people who made millions, but you don't hear the stories of everyone else. Statistics of average sales will typically use the mean, which will be skewed if most money is made by a few - we really need to look at the median. So even though this is old news for us, it's still good to hear it, as many aren't aware of it.
(There's a similar effect with e-books - I've heard people say how e-book writing is the new gold rush, but if everyone's talking about 50SOG, I think it's clear that it isn't any more. And when one book sells well because it's talked about it all the mainstream media, whilst most other books are ignored, I don't see how that's different to how things were before the Internet, if anything, things seem even more distorted.)
Re: Reference platform
"If you can find a single model of an Android phone that outsells the iPhone, I'll eat my hat and Paris at the same time."
That'd be the Samsung S3, best selling individual device of Q3 2012. Time to eat your hat.
("the iPhone" is not a single model btw, hell even individually labelled models have variations; it's a complete platform/range from a company, and would be better compared to either Samsung sales or Android sales anyway.)
Android is not the "alternative" (75% market share; iphone has never been number one, see my other comment). I'm not sure that cost is the factor, since the high end models sell well (e.g., the S3). It's well publicised that Samsung and Apple make big profits, so there is certainly room to reduce the price without sacrificing quality. And it seems to be the iphone that benefits from other products supporting it - just witness all the "get the iphone app" and all the cars/speakers/leads etc that support just iphones, and not an industry standard solution.
Re: Reference platform
"Hardly shifting millions on the first day like Apple does on a regular basis."
Note that Android sells over 1 million a day (possibly more now, I don't know the latest figures). That's all year round, rather than just the yearly bump where everyone rushes to buy a product that's been advertised for months previously, and where the sales then fall. Similarly by manufacturer, Samsung sell around 1 million phones a day.
True, we've no idea how many have or will be sold, but I think his point was more that Google are now able to generate this hype on top of the success of Android, and of companies like Samsung. And they do so without annoying them (otherwise there would be the danger that extra success for the LG Nexus 4 would hurt Samsung). And this hype comes from what Google have done, rather than already been publicised by the media months before it was even officially announced.
"The side fandroids are willing to take because it isn't an iPhone."
Current sales are around 75% Android, 15% iphone. iphone has never been the number one platform. So no, Android is not the alternative - rather, whilst other OSs have faded away somewhat, it's iphone that is the alternative to what most people are using. Not that there's anything wrong with that - but just clarifying the facts.
It's also worth noting that even if you don't remove the card, and just stick with plugging the phone into the PC, separate SD cards have the advantage of being able to be mounted as an external drive, which often isn't possible with internal storage for technical reasons. Though Android does at least support the open standard of MTP, and I like that in Windows for example, this is presented similar to as if it was just another external drive (though indeed, it isn't quite as good, as you say).
"what are they going to do, store BluRays on it?"
But that's an interesting point in itself, especially if we look at certain tablets that also lack microSD. Given the HD resolutions of phones and tablets, not to mention the higher-than-Full-HD resolutions of the Nexus 10 and recent ipads, and given that one of the primary purposes of these high resolutions (especially for tablets) is for viewing videos, I find myself wondering, how does one store movies with high enough resolution to actually take advantage of it? Full HD Blu-Ray is 25GB per disc. One could perhaps use better codecs, but even at best, IME 40 mins of Full HD is over 1GB, so that space quickly fulls up. And that's using Internet-quality codecs that probably have lower quality anyway, so it's a false economy to have higher resolution if you just end up reducing the quality.
Of course there's streaming, but not many people are on a plan that can download many GBs per month. So that leaves sitting on the sofa at home, but I'd rather do that on my big LG smart TV, or on a 17" laptop, than having to awkwardly hold a small tablet. I'm not saying there isn't a use, but I do find this obsession of super high resolutions, simultaneously with limited storage space, an odd choice. (And never mind microSDs, I wonder why no one's made a large tablet with a hard disk - if a primary purpose of tablets is to view media, and one can buy small mp3 and video players that have over 100GB of hard disk space, it seems like it should be possible to put that into a larger device?) It would also be fine if there was lots of storage as standard, but many phones/tablets get limited at 16GB (S3 and Nexus 7/10 at least has 32GB option, and the Transformer Prime you mention has up to 64GB).
This isn't a criticism against the Nexus 4 btw - it's a low cost device with better specs than the competition, despite the lack of microSD, and one can always buy an S3 if you want that. But I do think it's reasonable to criticise limited storage options.
Re: Lovely... Google not able to shift the Nexus stock quick enough...
"Desperate signals from Google when the iPad is still flying off the shelves with very little effort."
Apple receives vastly more free hype and advertise than anyone else, and never mind subsidised, I've lost track of the number of "win a free ipad/iphone" - seems they can't even give them away. Yet there's one single subsidised Android device, and that's "desperate"?
Only just now, reading a random website, I see yet another "Get the iphone app" - sorry, like most people I don't have an iphone. Where's the support for those of us using the popular platforms like Android, Symbian or Windows desktop? Or for those who like to think different with Blackberry or Linux?
"very little effort"? IOS devices have been the most overhyped and most marketed product in history, yet they failed to outsell Symbian in its lifetime, and now are outsold by Android by almost five to one - despite zero effort for either of those two platforms.
"Also my mac book air is way more powerful than most laptops"
That's the one with integrated graphics isn't it?
There are plenty of ultra-portables from other companies btw, from way cheaper netbooks, to the high end powerful ones.
Re: Sounds like....
Also known as a dumb phone. Most people manage to get one for about £10.
Re: Doing What Jobs Urged Them To
Jobs is the one having the last laugh re Flash. He would be very pleased to see how right he was about Flash (dead on Android, dead on Linux, dying on OS X and Windows),
Yes and no - I mean yes, he was right that it would one day die out, but this was not a difficult prediction - it was clear that HTML5 was planned, and this was clearly the better way forward long term. This was what almost everyone was saying.
But it's also worth nothing that with the IOS devices, it wasn't about dropping Flash to embrace HTML5, but instead to support "apps" as their lock-in. So like, we went from sites that required a closed proprietary application that could run on most platforms, to sites that now require a closed proprietary exe that only runs on one type of hardware! Hardly an improvement - out of the frying pan, into the fire, I'd say. Furthermore, Jobs's actions did nothing to kill Flash, as the response from websites was to make the closed exe for IOS devices, and still use Flash for other platforms; it wasn't to move to HTML5.
Compare this to Google who more recently removed Flash from Android, but they also updated Youtube to use HTML5 (as opposed to requiring you to use an Android-only app).
Flash may be dying, but we should hold off cheering until websites can be accessed through any device, including all mobile devices, using HTML5 and not platform specific closed exes that might or might not work on your device.
Re: umm, this IS a laptop
"You could not make a PC that thin, with a display as good that was as quiet in running as the mac. "
Given that Macs *are* PCs, this is complete nonsense. Certainly there are all-in-one PCs from companies other than Apple. I don't know off hand if Apple make the thinnest - if they do, it's more down them choosing not to for whatever reason, rather than it being impossible because of the semantic issue of labelling it a "PC". There are also plenty of silent PCs.
And the obvious example would be PC laptops, which exist with far smaller volumes than this Apple all-in-one PC, as well as often being silent. As noted, the imac has laptop components anyway. So yes, it is clearly possible to make a PC of that size.
As for cables, what powers an imac, hot air? There are two less cables (monitor to PC, and extra power cord), but that's it. The only option for zero cables is a laptop running on battery. But for the niche purposes where an all-in-one is useful (I admit there are a couple), there are various PCs to choose from, not just this one.
Re: fuss over nothing
A Mac *is* a PC these days, just a brandname for one company's computer.
I've had no trouble repairing PCs or PC parts from various companies, though to be honest this is an extremely rare thing when buying complete systems.
The "repair things for free" seems either a myth, or very much a matter of luck. I've experienced the case where they refuse to repair something, despite us paying for the insurance (I guess it doesn't cover everything, after all, despite what some claim).
Re: the charging unit will only work with identified devices
The worse thing is when the industry goes along with them - it frustrates me that so many audio devices cater only for ipods or the minority of Apple phone users. What if like most people I want to plug in an Android smartphone, or I just Think Different and use something like my Sansa? (I'm amused that my LG smart TV actually makes a better audio player than most dedicated audio equipment, because it uses open standards like USB or network playing - plug in or stream from any kind of device.)
Of course they've been hoisted by their own petard, now that the iphone 5 is incompatible with this apple-only system, messing the whole system up - if only they'd used open standards...
Since Samsung make much of the hardware in apple devices, your point is irrelevant anyway.
And it's a proven fact that apple have far higher profit margins. The extra money you give to apple isn't going to the workers, it's going to shareholders.
Re: It will be an uphill struggle for Google
Yes it's so terrible that my platform has loads of top quality software for free, where as you pay for stuff. A struggle indeed.
And what about other stores?
It's flawed to only look at Google Play - as Apple have the advantage, as that's the only place you can download from for IOS. What are the stats like for Android in total?
For developers, this is a circular argument - revenues are likely higher, because ios gets so much more support than other platforms, despite never being the most popular. Maybe Android revenue is rising because finally we're getting software support for it? Saying "We're not going to port to Android because they don't pay" reeks of the old "Linux users don't pay for software" flamebait, except this is a world where Android has a staggering 5 times the market share of ios on phones (and presumably still easily leads overall even with tablets included).
Higher revenues for developers shouldn't be spun as a good thing anyway - from a user point of view, I much prefer a platform with more free software or lower cost software.
(Though it's still interesting to see that Android is growing so rapidly - especially as this is presumably due to growth in userbase or more people using software, or more software being released, rather than software prices increasing.)
Developers should look at other factors too - it's downloads or revenue per developer or per application, rather than total for the platform. So a platform with smaller share can still be viable if there's less competition (though iphone is both smaller and with more competition - but I'm thinking of other platforms too. I still get 100x the downloads on Symbian that I do for Android, for example).
"It should be interesting to check the China v US figures in a few months, now that Apple has announced that the iPhone 5, iPad mini, and latest iPad will be available in the Middle Kingdom in the next two weeks."
Because it's not like there'll be any new Android devices(!) Why does any stat that makes Apple look bad have to end with "But there'll be something new out from Apple to change it, honest!"? For Android we've got the high spec and low cost Nexus 4, Nexus 10, Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD, Nook HD, Galaxy Note 10.1, Galaxy Note 2, not to mention rumours of a Galaxy Note 7, as well as loads of new Android phones on the way.
Re: Could be a much needed kick up the arse...
You're not an Apple fan, but you're sounding like one...
My LG TV's interface is just fine. And it streams with any OS I like, any device I like, using any software I like, using open standards.
The Apple world is to make you use itunes (which I find horrendous - and even if you don't, the point is that people should have a choice), and be optimised to work with Apple idevices. Just look at the fiasco in the audio industry where so much stuff only supports being physically connected to an Apple only idevice. And then that gets stuffed up when Apple change the connector - serves them right.
Loads of manufacturers are already competing to build even better systems. And Google are moving in with Google TV, which is gaining support. Apple would be just yet another company, coming late to the party.
Re: Just trying to protect their balliwick
Quite - the thing is that if Apple do make a TV, then even though Samsung, LG etc may remain bigger sellers of "smart" TVs, we'll find that suddenly TV companies will drop support for them, and only make it available for the minority of Apple TV users. The same happened in the phone market, and the industry's idea of moving the press, TV and film online is to make it so you can "watch on your ipad" that most of us don't have. Usually it's the case that they love Apple - a match made in heaven when it comes to controlling and locking down media, and blocking out the more popular platforms.
Re: @AC 16:30GMT - I like that it's certified Windows 8 compatible!
OOI, how much easier is it to install Linux on an Apple tablet, or install GNU/Linux on an Android tablet? Is this something that MS made harder - or is it that MS ARM tablets are no different, but as always, MS get criticised when Apple got a free pass?
Re: No, they aren't
PC Specialist offer lots of customization (SSDs, discrete graphics, Full HD, matte screens), though they're mostly geared towards larger/heavier laptops.
Note though, you're possibly restricting your choice if you want something that's light and has discrete graphics (it's not just the weight of the card I imagine, but also whatever's needed for extra cooling). To be honest, Intel integrated graphics is a lot better than it used to be, with HD4000 probably being good for most purposes except high end gaming (and if you want a high end gaming laptop, it's not going to be light).
I do agree the choices seem odd - why do we have super high resolutions on phones/tablets, but not on phones/laptops? Why can't we get more laptops with SSDs (where speed is useful) and tablets with hard disks? (Which seems an obvious option to me, given their usage for media playing - if you can get hard disks into small mp3 players, it should be possible in a large tablet - it seems pointless having Full HD tablets, considering that one Blu Ray quality HD film is 25GB, and many tablets only have 16GB!) Why did I have the option of matte on my 17" Clevo which I use indoors, but all the phones/tablets that get used outdoors in sunlight only have glossy?
"Apple landed an important punch against Microsoft some years back by becoming a popular platform among devs building new applications."
In your Universe, maybe. Vista is old news. And if you don't like Windows, there's Linux - better that than to restrict your choice to only one company (that is trying to destroy Open Source operating systems with software patents).
"the power of MacBooks"
Oh dear - is this an Apple advert. "Macbook" is just a trademark for their PCs. They use the same components of any other PCs, and that power comes from companies like Intel. I've plenty of power in my Clevo, thanks.
"saw Microsoft lose its grip on an influential"
Oh dear, it's the new "Apple are going bust". Wake me up when it's Apple who have 90% market share.
But you don't get more support, as even if the newer OS is available for your phone, features are still restricted if the phone doesn't support it. Plus, you can't fix the old hardware.
If you're happy with a 4 year old phone, fine, but there are loads of people happy with old Android phones too, so you're comparison isn't fair - we might just as well compare someone using an old Android phone, to someone who upgrades his iphone every 2 years.
(The still large market share of Android 2.x shows there's a lot of older Android users out there too. The same is true of other platforms - e.g., my downloads for my Symbian applications show a significant portion, perhaps at least half, coming from 4 year old phones like the Nokia 5800.)
And buying unlocked can often be cheaper than contract, that's nothing to do with the platform.
Your price comparison isn't really fair - sure, using a 4 year old iphone may now be cheaper than the Android users you know. But, you have a really crap 4 year old iphone, compared to your friends with up to date high spec Android phones... It's not comparing like with like. We might as well say that someone who uses a £30 "feature" PAYG phone has it even cheaper than you!
Re: Are the Chinese exceptionally patriottic ?
Even without being "patriotic", companies tend to do better in their own markets - e.g., the US is Apple's best market, and S Korea is Samsung's best market. Nokia's Symbian was the number one worldwide platform until 2011, but virtually unheard of in the US (which perhaps partly contributes to the ridiculous "Apple invented 'smart' phones in 2007 [even though the 1st iphone wasn't a smartphone]" from the US media, though there's no excuse for the UK media).
There are factors such as language of the documentation; distribution - whether you can buy it at all, and whether it's available on networks with contracts, which is how most people buy phones; brand awareness (people tend to be more wary of brands that they don't know); and simply being aware of the product in the first place.
E.g., one of my friends was asking about whether Symbian phones still exist to buy - they still today sell around 4 million a quarter (i.e., still better than Apple managed back in 2007!), but it'd be hard if not impossible to get one in the UK on a contract.
Or I'd love to have one of the Android tablets from Chinese company Ainol, which have excellent specs at low prices, but the only way seems to be to mail order from a company that ships from China, and hope I don't get a load of Chinese instructions or power supply. And most people won't even be aware these devices exist, with the media only covering the tablets from Google, Amazon and Apple Apple Apple (even Samsung get little coverage).
Though this is one of the many strengths of Android - it will do well worldwide, as even though different companies are successful in different countries, they will all use the common platform of Android. With IOS, you're stuck with Apple, who will struggle to have a worldwide presence.
Re: iPhone 5 still isn't released in China
Ah yes, standard Apple fan excuse - "but the next one will be more popular!" Sure, and by then all the other companies like Samsung and Nokia will have newer models and improved distribution too.
Re: How many?
Possibly due to this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark#Digit_grouping - in China, the comma can be used for groups of 2 digits. So I suspect it's 20,000 - though it's a bit sloppy of the Register to not use the UK style, since this isn't a quotation.
"i don't think it's a pretty obvious invention at a time where touch was in its embrio phase, be honest would you have thought about it? why wasn't it invented for the windows mobile os already?"
It's more that it's not a particularly useful feature - personally I hate "bounce back". So that's why not everyone would have done it already, but it still doesn't follow that just because someone was first, they should have a monopoly on it. I mean, a grid of coloured icons was done by Amiga in 1985 (and possibly before), does that mean no one else should have that? And it was done on phones before, too (my 2005 feature phone had it, at least).
And even if you argued that if it's not really useful, it's okay for others not to have it, the problem is that that's not what happens. What happens is products getting banned, and Samsung having to give money to Apple. That's less money for our favourite Android devices, more money for future court cases.
(Also note that the other issues discussed in other cases are reasonably viewed as trivial imho.)
Re: True Facts...
The ipad was a _larger_ tablet, rather - handheld touchscreen devices existed for years (we called them other names, like PDAs, smartphones, media players). The thing that Apple did first was make one that was 10".
(If you're comparing to the older tablet PCs, that's an entirely kettle of fish - those were full blown PCs, not oversized phones. It's only now in 2012 that we finally see full PCs with the portability of a tablet, e.g. from the likes of Samsung, and even then, IIRC they're still understandably slightly heavier due to the extra functionality and power.)
Re: I love my Mac, iPad, and iPhone....
What patents are those, though? I mean, there's an argument against patents in general, but I think the particular problem here is them being due to trivial software and "design" patents. (I'm sure Samsung have plenty of patents too, but that's not the issue.)
Wish I could go back in time
Usually with inventions, people say "If only I could go back in time with that idea". Here, it's not the idea - rather, I wish I could go back in time, with only the knowledge that trivial UI behaviour could be patented.
Then without even knowing what these particular ideas are, I could simply patent every trivial UI thing I could think of (or rather, more responsibly, simply document it as prior art).
It's certainly one to add to the UI programming workflow from now on:
1. Add GUI element.
2. Write functionality.
3. Link GUI to to functionality by pre-existing standard mechanism (e.g., drag, double-click).
4. Go to the patent office.
Re: Size of market isn't mentioned
"With a couple of mis-starts (I've got an old HP tablet lying around somewhere), the modern tablet market was pretty much started by Apple."
False, the ARM based tablets were around earlier, including Android based ones in 2009, we just called them other things like "media players" or PMPs. The only thing about the ipad was the vast amounts of media coverage it got, and that appeared *before* it was even announced, so this wasn't in response to anything about the product itself. The only other new thing was making a 10" tablet. More generally, handheld computing devices have been around for years, we most commonly call them "smartphones".
You're right about the market share issue, though this is the same problem that unfairly plagued Nokia for years too - although their share fell, their smartphone sales actually increased massively, and they continued to lead.
Re: 7" tablets an easy upsell
"Plus, I think with the tide turning from iOS in the phone space (have you noticed how many S3's are about?) means that Android tablet "
Just to nitpick, note that the tide turned with Android outselling iphone several years ago. And in fact, iphone was never number one - it was Symbian until 2011, then Android.
The S3 is so popular, that it is now the single best selling device (Q3 2012) - that's right, even though Apple only has one phone per generation, their one flagship is outsold by just one of thousands of Android phones.
Indeed. I mean, I recall the story of Nokia, who in the early 2000s had something like 70% share of smartphones, but this dropped as the decade went on.
In fact, their fall only actually came after 2011, with the Symbian to WP switch. Until then, Symbian was the number one OS. And it wasn't simply that sales were falling - in fact, in many years, sales continued to increase, despite market share falling, because market share is a flawed statistic to compare platforms in a growing market. In fact, even when the sales were increasing by a larger number than competitors (in absolute sales), it is still possible for the market share figure to fall, whilst those competitors increased their share.
But no, that didn't stop years of doomongering from the media about how abysmal Nokia were, and how wonderful Apple were for increasing their market share (ignoring that they were in 4th or so position by platform and by company).
So you know what? I say, fair's fair - now that Apple's in the position of being number one, having increasing sales, but having falling market share, it's only fair to ignore the first two points, and focus on how rapidly their market share is falling.
(Pedantically, they would never have had 100% market share, as tablets existed and were in mainstream use before the ipad, we just called them "media players" instead - indeed, even the first Android tablets appeared in 2009, but weren't called tablets by the media then.)
"a trend given extra momentum"
Rather, a trend given extra momentum by the media continuing to give vast amounts of coverage to the ipads, whilst any others were ignored. The problem is that most people don't even know there are other devices to buy.
Coverage of Android tablets has only appeared in the last year (with the Kindle Fire, and now the Nexus line), and surprise surprise, their sales are now doing better.
Re: When will Google realise
"Then something weird and unexpected happened: the iPhone and then the iPad showed how mobile was to be, and it wasn't the mighty Web."
Er no. Most things were done via software before 2007, on phones, PCs and other devices. And most things continued to be done on software after that.
In fact, let's not forget that the original iphone couldn't even *run* 3rd party software. Indeed, all I heard from Apple fans in the early days was how wonderful the iphone was, because it could access web pages! (Never mind that that wasn't anything special, either.)
And by 2010, when ipad came out, Android was the dominant smartphone OS, and with hundreds of thousands of applications.
Yes, there were people thinking that everything could be done on the web before 2007. Just as there continue to be people thinking that everything can be done on the web today. Sorry, nothing's changed, no matter how much you try to revise everything to be all about Apple.
Perhaps. Though I note that this kind of argument doesn't seem to apply to Apple fans when discussing say, the MS Zune. Nor will it apply to the Surface.
Apple get 5%, and it's a "runaway amazing success". Anyone else gets 10%, and it's a "failure" or a "flop".
Also: you're an individual, Apple are a multinational. 5% would be amazing for an individual like you, but it is rather poor for a billion dollar multinational company, after five years of trying, and vast amounts of hype and free media coverage.
Re: @AC 14:27 - Rule 26
The fact that you just compared an apple shop to a church kind of proves the point...
Re: Apple are doomed
Because it's made by Samsung...
Neither the ipad or ipad mini are highest resolution. And anything above full hd seems pointless anyway - do you have the gpu power to drive complex AAA pc games at that resolution? How many full hd movies - let alone higher res - can you fit on that 16gb ipad anyway? That's why ultrabooks have lower res, because no one wants it, and it's a pointless marketing point.
How good is the version of apple maps that's released for Symbian, wp and android?
It would seem dumb for Nokia to give it away for free. If you want decent maps, pay up and get a better phone - the nexus 4 is a great deal!
So the message from the media is that Windows is doomed because no one wants touch, and we should all throw away laptops because the future is everyone using ipads.
10 years time when all i can buy is an apple pure tablet that only runs stuff from the apple store, and even competing android tablets have been banned by apple, I'll be so glad that Windows failed, what with their attempts to force touch on us, and lock down computing.
That's a good thing in my book - i much prefer a laptop (whatever os it runs) than a pure tablet.
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