1696 posts • joined Thursday 18th June 2009 13:17 GMT
"Samsung does have its own, proprietary smartphone platform in the form of Bada, but handsets running that OS have not proven popular, save for in a few select markets."
I don't think I've ever seen a Bada smartphone for sale in UK markets? So it's as much I think that Samsung haven't chosen to market it everywhere, nor make it its flagship platform.
Will Tizen get the same treatment, or will it get some more mainstream marketing support? (I'm obviously not expecting it to replace Android yet on their main S* or Note platforms, but at least something available in most countries?)
"Still, none of those platforms was particularly successful"
The N9 sold 1 million in approximately 76 days - I guess the iphone wasn't particularly successful either...
"For example, its app development model is based on HTML5 and related web technologies – but whose isn't these days?"
Er, most of them?
I think it's interesting that whilst Tizen is seen as a competitor to Google's Android, the development model is very much in line with ChromeOS - i.e., using HTML5 for applications, even for offline ones.
"Android and iOS dominate the smartphone market, with a number of smaller players squabbling for third place."
I wonder why this two-OS myth has to continue - at 75% share, the more accurate description would be "Android dominates, with a number of smaller players squabbling for second place".
Consider that the gap between WP (or whatever else) and iphone is far smaller than the gap between iphone and Android, whether looked at in relative terms, or absolute numbers.
(The only time there's been a two-OS market was when it was Symbian and Android; iphone only became second place when Symbian was ditched by Nokia.)
Re: Hasn't it been done ?
You mean Maemo and Moblin - Tizen is a newer OS that in turn is meant to be a successor to Meego.
Re: Lack of apps
The bigger failure is that the technology hasn't existed to put a full x86 PC into a light tablet, so the "tablets" were large and heavy. The "tablets" we see today are really just renamed media players or oversized smartphones that have been around for years.
With the Windows 8 tablets, the technology to make a small full x86 PC may now be here, though even so, it's with compromises (poorer battery life, still heavier than ARM devices - Clover Trail devices fix that, but then you don't get the processing power of Intel Core, so it's more like ARM in that respect too).
That, and the fact that only one company got vast amounts of free advertising for their large phone, sorry, tablet, even before it was officially announced - which is why Android 10" tablets have struggled, too, nobody knows about them.
Re: What are they thinking/smoking?
I'm still waiting for someone to make this: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android .
That webpage doesn't appear to be for the actual product, but a plea for anyone wanting to make it - and as far as I can tell, no one has. Which is rather sad - whilst perhaps a bit of a niche usage, this would give a great edge to a smartphone, and could see Ubuntu see a far greater audience. It would be the only phone/operating system capable of doing it. Some have suggested that in ten years' time, our computers will be our phones that we just connect to a larger screen and keyboard when required - it's sad to think that the technology could exist now, but nobody wants to market it.
Re: Great idea!
Windows 8 also adopts the different paradigm UI, the difference being the OS offers both UIs (not-Metro, and desktop/windowed) in the same OS, rather than being completely separate operating systems. This is distinct from Unity, where it really does seem to be the same UI for everyone. (Though personally, the things I hate about it are nothing to do with it being for touchscreen, but things that don't make sense in any context, like the new scrollbars that are a pain to click.)
And it wouldn't surprise me if we see some kind of ChromeOS/Android integration in future (see http://www.zdnet.com/with-google-readying-its-own-nexus-chromebook-will-it-marry-chrome-os-to-android-7000007987/ ). Same with Apple to be honest.
Out of interest, which large-tablet apps are these that aren't available on Android? (Not disagreeing, genuinely curious what apps still need to be written.)
Re: And what's the alternative ?
I think the point is more that the market is healthier with choice, even if you don't like every option. I'm glad that the open platform of Android has won (and let's face it, it's not Google and Apple, it's Google full stop for mobile now), but as far as the niche alternatives are concerned, I'm a bit worried if iphone ends up as the only alternative. The loss of Symbian (number one platform as recent as 2011) was such a shame for this reason.
I do agree though, it's a shame that there aren't more options (same for the desktop - it amuses me when people criticise MS or Windows 8, and then you find they're using Apple as if that were some open alternative). Perhaps in future we will - e.g., Samsung-backed Tizen is an open source Linux-based smartphone OS, that also promises an open ecosystem with HTML5 apps (similar to ChromeOS, as it happens). First Samsung smartphones planned this year, according to recent news.
Re: I lost interest here:
Sometimes it's not even that - it's painful to hear stories of people who'd rather use say their Android smartphone to play music, but they have to keep an Apple mp3 player around, because the entire audio industry - from speakers to in-car stereos - caters only to Apple users, with ipod-only connectors. Although it will be fun to see how that plays out now that Apple have broken compatibility with their own standard...
(I'm amused that my LG smart _TV_ is a far better audio playing/streaming solution than most dedicated audio devices, since it can happily stream from any device/OS using industry standard protocols rather than AppleSpeak, and you can plug in any USB player or other device and let it read/play the music, rather than having Apple-only connectors.)
Then there are people who don't particular like itunes as software, but simply use it as a place to buy music from (because even if there are alternatives, most people aren't aware of them; Apple's marketing campaign has put itunes gift cards in every UK shop, and so on); and because they then have all their music in itunes, they end up being locked into Apple's hardware (whilst there's no DRM, it can be a pain to transfer to other systems when things aren't tagged in a standard format, and ipods scramble the filenames).
Not to mention other myths - I recently had someone say to me that they'd rather have a standard mp3 player, but reluctantly stuck with Apple because all their music was on mp4 format. I pointed out that most "mp3" players cope with multiple formats too, but I realised how the very common name "mp3 player" has misled people, whilst Apple's devices get mentioned by brandname, making people think they're different. Noticed how many shops say "Ipods and mp3 players", as if from the Department of Redundancy Department? People end up thinking they need an "ipod", and other players don't get a look in.
Re: @Mark - multiple iDevice resolutions
Well I'm not saying it's an difficult problem, just that the advantages of "single model" aren't there, and it's no worse than other platforms like Android.
"So it's unlikely app developers will ever need to worry about more screen dimensions they do currently, as any newer screen dimensions (from say a phablet type iPhone) would come around the time you'd eliminate one of the older ones."
Even currently, there are still 4 sizes (the 4/4S is still in widespread use), and I think at least 3 resolutions?
Plus look at it from the other way - suppose I wrote an application a few years ago, isn't it better that all the existing applications Just Work, rather than breaking (or needing some horrendous hack, or leaving blank space)? If a new model is released, I want it to work out of the box, not have to rewrite all my apps. This is bad for both developers and users.
"Apple could do a more major update to iOS at some point and have it use Quartz for full resolution independence like OS X does. That they didn't do this when iOS first came out could have been due to battery life concerns from the computational load, but now CPUs in phones are far more powerful and efficient so it may be a reasonable thing to do."
Wait - are you telling me that the IOS API *doesn't* have a UI toolkit with resolution independence? What, are apps specifying coordinates like it's 1990 again?
The low CPU power argument doesn't really hold - the iphones have always been high end devices, and Symbian has had Qt (with still excellent battery life) that runs on even mid-range phones from 2008 (e.g., Nokia 5800 with 433MHz ARM11, no GPU).
Re: Only one?
Why just two? If you want to cover as many platforms, and acknowledge that it isn't simply just about market share, then there are more than just two platforms (and the current situation of IOS being in second place is very much a recentism - historically it was way behind, and those other platforms still have large installed userbases, and may still do very well on stats like profit, or downloads per developer - I get 100x the downloads on Symbian compared to Android, for example).
But the OP was talking about if you just had to pick one - and sadly, there are still people who pick one, but go for iphone. Even when we're talking about free apps from professional developers, so the alleged argument about profit, or being from an individual, doesn't work. (E.g., all of the website-wrapper apps to offer people a company's services on a phone. Though then again, anyone with a competent smartphone doesn't need an "app" to access a website.)
Re: Only one?
Indeed - and there was also a switch in resolution from the first models to "4", and between 4S and "5". And there have I believe been at least two resolutions for the non-mini ipads. So if we look at different resolutions and sizes, I count at least 6 combinations. At that point, any hope of "write for one device" goes out the window, and you're better off with a UI that scales to a range of sizes/resolutions, as encouraged on Android. This also works better when new devices are released (compare with the release of the ipad, and now ipad mini, where existing software wasn't been written for it).
Re: Further details emerge:
They should've just nicked one single Samsung Galaxy, then Apple would be claiming they'd had $1 billion stolen...
Well there are fewer Samsung shops, since Samsung sell loads without needing to push them themselves.
But also, remember, it's only news if it's got "Apple" in the headline. There are plenty of raids on other shops, but as always, the media only go advertising when it's about Apple.
Re: Strange but amazing
All of the criticisms of the Surface (e.g., not wanting touchscreen devices, closed platform) apply even more so to a dumbed down touch-only far-more-closed platform. It's a sad day on the Register when real computers are mocked, and dumbed down appliances are worshipped. Still, with Android way more popular than IOS, we could make the same joke of the Apple shop too.
If it was due to popularity, for phones I would expect to see Samsung and then Nokia being more common targets.
I suspect it's more a case of being expensive. That, and having a big shop front that's an easier target, which many manufacturers don't have.
On the contrary, Windows 8 has gone the route of offering *two* UIs - for better or worse - one optimised for tablets or non-experienced users, and one for power users or those doing say office work, or applications that aren't available in the new UI yet. It's true that MS's vision appears to make everything use the new UI ultimately - though possibly by then, it'll be more powerful anyway. The annoying thing about Unity was that the changes affected the only UI you had to work with.
"then pray you haven't broken your shell and locked yourself out of your own account."
I'm not sure Linux is immune to these problems either, when things mess up.
Re: Wants A and B
I agree it's annoying when things are dumbed down, but the advanced desktop features aren't removed in Windows 8. It's more that it's set up to be easier for everyday users, which makes sense - the advanced users are the ones who (ought to) know how to get to the advanced features.
The problem in Unity however is that there are things modified in an annoying manner even in the windowed UI. I can't stand the new scrollbars, for example.
Actually I'd say that XP was a more user-friendly dumbed-down version of 2000, and I prefer 7 to XP. (E.g., the fastest way to launch programs or find something in Windows 7 and 8 is just to it the Windows key, and type the name - much faster than in 2000 or XP.)
Re: Wants A and B
"as actual end-user-facing options to disable it do not exist"
Not quite true - the windowed mode is still there, and existing Windows programs will continue to use it, without needing any software to modify it. So it's more a case of "continue to use the windowed apps you used before, rather than the 'metro' ones".
(The 3rd party software to modify the UI is more about the new start menu, but that's a separate issue. I'd rather work in a multitasking windowed environment, but the new start menu still works fine for that - but some people don't like it for other reasons. MS have changed the start menu in almost every version of Windows, as usual, some people like it, some people don't.)
Re: Just ban Apple products
Which make of car stereo was stolen? I mean, it's apparently so important to mention Apple specifically, but if it's another product, it's just a generic term that's used...
Re: Just ban Apple products
If you say so. The only reason an iphone would be worth having for free, is so you could sell on to some mug at a ridiculous price. Personally I'll stick with my Samsung Android.
(And I've lost track of the absurd number of "Win a free ipad" - seems it is a case of having to give them away, after all.)
Re: Perhaps realising that there are times of day and places where.............
Indeed - given how Apple users seem to walk around holding their iphones in front of them all the time, it doesn't seem surprising. Another thing I note is how Apple laptops users seem far more likely to carry their laptop everywhere they go, where as most people usually leave them at home, or keep them carried in a bag if they're travelling.
Not to mention that Apple products are plastered in obvious logos (in some cases light up!), which helps advertise that you have a product. And that Apple products are only ever in the expensive range of the market. Personally I prefer my phones, laptops etc to have as subtle or unobvious a logo as possible (plus it just looks better that way - same reason I don't wear Addidas clothes).
Though it's great for Apple because it's yet more free advertising from the media. Just check out stories on thefts - it's always "laptops and Ipads" or "Macbooks and phones" or "Iphones and tablets" - if there's an Apple product stolen, it'll always be mentioned by name, like some kind of product placement ad, whilst other products are just mentioned generically.
"dominating the markets it was in"
Not even that - they don't dominate in computer operating systems, and they're third place in phones behind even Nokia (or by mobile OS, outsold by Android 6 times over). Which makes it even worse.
He's the CEO of a multinational. The media can harp on about Apple's "success", but the fact is it's nothing more than the success of many other multinationals (you have to be successful in order to get to being a multinational, basically).
It's sad to see the Apple bias in the media continues after Jobs - it's sad to see their pathetic attempts to try to personify Apple with the new CEO (what's-his-name), just like they did with Jobs - it's far easier to make a company look friendlier or different when you see them as a person, and just look at the overblown hoo-hah when Jobs died. Do we think most of those overemotional Apple fans even know the name of the CEO of larger and more successful Samsung is, let alone know if he died?
(I suppose the counter example is that being Time Person of the Year isn't necessarily a compliment, but also covers negative aspects, e.g., obvious example being Hitler - so this could cover the negative actions of Apple such as trying to lock the most successful smartphone platform out of the market. But even there, it's ludicrous to say he's the most influential person, or anywhere near it)
Re: 99% pay cut
I suspect Google and Samsung have made plenty (hint, Android is based on Linux).
Re: Shark. Jumped.
Who cares. Never in the most heated Windows vs Linux/etc debate did an MS fan go "But look at how much money Bill Gates has". No one cares (unless you're a shareholder).
But if we're looking at what people are buying, it's market share.
"They can't ramp up licence fees without either damaging their market or getting investigated."
Which is a good thing! Why on earth, as an Android user, should I be wishing that Google suddenly be able to make things more expensive?
Re: Ultrabooks with "premium specs"
And "MacProBookAir" (or whatever they call it) isn't a marketing trademark?
Apple are just yet another PC OEM, and all PC manufacturers, Apple included, use trademarks to sell their products.
As for "bad copy", I disagree. The Apple Air's have crap specs too (e.g., Intel integrated graphics). Personally I prefer to have a powerful laptop like a Clevo for main use, and a lower cost portable with better battery life (what used to be called a netbook) for travelling, rather than a device that does a bad job of either. I'll also take the laptop without a tacky light up logo.
Re: Netbooks were popular when they had Linux on them
The thing that killed it was the spec staying still for 5 years. 1024x600, 1GB RAM! I agree it's a shame that Linux netbooks disappeared, though I find my Windows netbook fine. The experience is only poor compared to more powerful laptops, but tablet are less powerful too.
The experience would have also been far better if they hadn't stuck the specs at 2007 level - e.g., 2GB RAM makes Windows run much better (even phones have this now), or higher resolution (again, phones are fine for this).
As for Apple - *snort* - all those markets existed for years before Apple joined the market late. The ipad is a larger smartphone, not a new market (or is the first 7" or 11" tablet also a new market then?) This is The Register, not for people who think Apple invented phones (the first iphone wasn't even a smartphone - couldn't run apps). Not to mention that Apple are competely irrelevant, as their only ultra-portable laptop is way more expensive.
The "desktop" is a mature market - I don't see Apple taking it in any new directions either. Yeah, MS are really killing it with their 90% market share. Do you have a source for your last paragraph? The evidence doesn't support it - sorry, I live Linux and run it on my Clevo dual boot, but I actively chose Windows for my netbook.
But Atom lives on! Death of netbook in name only
There are certainly plenty of ultra-portable laptop/tablet hybrids being planned that are based on Clover Trail, the next generation SoC Atom, that will be a lower cost lower powered (and also better battery life) alternative to the i3/i5/i7 devices. It will be interesting see if we also get Clover Trail devices that are pure laptops - anyone know?
Part of the problem is, what is the definition of a "netbook"? If we define it as a machine with Atom CPU, 1GB RAM, 1024x600, then I'm glad that spec is finally dead - but that makes no more sense than saying a tablet is a device with 512MB RAM, and saying tablets are dead. If we define it as a low cost ultra-portable, then is it still true that netbooks will disappear?
If in 2013, I can still buy a lower end portable laptop, I don't care whether it's called a netbook, ultrabook, ultra-portable or whatever else - it's still the same thing. But if lower end portable laptops no longer exist, and the only choice is tablets, much more expensive (and poorer battery life) high end ultra-portables, or the remaining stock of old netbooks, that's a bit sad.
I love my Samsung N220, and have no desire to replace it with a less functional tablet. What will the upgrade path for it be?
"Meanwhile, the original netbook concept of a compact, ultraportable PC has reemerged in the form of Ultrabooks, Intel's attempt to encourage PC makers to develop devices to compete with Apple's extra-slim MacBook Air."
Well high end ultra-portables existed long before Apple joined the market late (as always). The key new thing about netbooks was the lower cost (and better battery life). Ultrabooks were nothing to do with Apple, they were a continued trend of ultra-portables, with Intel making up a trademark for better marketing. Ultrabooks are falling in price so could well eventually fill the place of netbooks anyway.
"by 2016 virtually every notebook will resemble an Ultrabook, leaving the netbook era as little more than a quaint and whimsical memory."
Or rather, the netbook was the immensely successful revolutionary device that later evolved into the devices we'll be using in 2016. By 2016, I suspect ultrabooks will be at the same price as netbooks - the reason for calling them ultrabooks will simply be a matter of marketing ("ultrabook" is an Intel trademark; netbook is simply a generic name, and one that's now become old fashioned).
Not to mention Chromebooks, effectively netbooks too (low cost, portable, good battery life). Ironically Chromebooks used to be viewed as pointless as you could just get a netbook, but soon Chromebooks might be the only thing in that market you can buy!
Re: Linux does it ...
My Amiga 1200 booted in 5 seconds on a much slower PIO 0 IDE drive - is that therefore better than Linux?
Comparing boot times is pointless, and the idea of Windows being slow to boot is pretty much a myth, or a leftover from the NX/2000 days. I don't remember if Linux boots faster on my system - maybe it does - but then, I also note that my Clevo boots quicker than my Android Galaxy Nexus, so is Android crapper than Windows? (Same with the myth that Windows always needs rebooting for updates - Ubuntu seems to have far more updates, and also needs rebooting. Same with the myth that Windows is unstable - all modern OSs are pretty stable, but Windows 7 even survives graphics driver crashes that take down Linux and OS X, and I've had black-screen-on-boot when upgrading Ubuntu due to driver problems.)
I like Windows, Linux and Android (and Amiga back in the day), so I'm not taking sides. The idea that GNU/Linux isn't ready for ordinary users is also nonsense.
Re: How is the W8 Fisher Price Interface ?
Fisher Price interface, isn't that the one you get with an Apple FisherPricePad?
Re: Have you ever noticed OS X and iOS run on Apple devices only?
Yes it's not like Apple are using patent attacks against Android. And all their i-devices are open and don't require jailbreaking to root at all. Oh wait.
Apple do their utmost to prevent fair competiton. Just look at how we've ended up with vast amounts of audio devices only connecting to ipods and iphones - I know people who'd rather use their Android phone for music, but have to keep an ipod due to the locking. And that's before we consider the lock in of itunes.
Do you have a reference to recent Halloween Documents and Android?
How do tax payers fund MS, and not Apple? (I mean, I'm sure the Government use MS, but that's probably true of Apple too to some extent, and loads of other companies.)
You're right, Apple's OSs are minor players compare to Windows on desktop, or Android on mobile, so in that sense MS are the better target.
*However* I think there is a problem that it becomes hard to criticise MS, for what Apple have got away with doing - or even praised for doing. On top of that, they unfairly get vast amounts of hype and positive biased media coverage. MS can just say they're only doing similar things, and to a _lesser_ extent, than Apple do with IOS. (Sure yes, there's OS X, but most people don't care about that, that's not what gives Apple their hype.)
So I do think criticism should be targetted at Apple, in response to all the hype they get for IOS.
And even if one is using OS X, that's still giving money to Apple, to support their IOS development. And it's not just about locked-down IOS - there's the point of them attempting to destroy the most successful open source operating system, using software and design patents in the courts.
But Samsung Android alone outsell Apple (at least they have all through 2012, by a factor of 2 to 1 in Q3 - of course a contrived survey 12 weeks right after the iphone 5 launch, when Apple's sales are known to be highly seasonal, is going to show Apple in a better light).
And only selling a few models (which isn't just one, as you concede) isn't a reason to make it more impressive - that's Apple's choice. There are potentially advantages to having fewer models (e.g., it means developers can focus on it more easily. I might as well say "Well the only reason Apple sold more is that they have fewer models, so it's easier to support - it's quite impressive that Android sells well, despite having lots of different models to support". If it turns out that offering more choice to consumers is what is more popular, then that's tough luck to Apple.
Re: How Convenient ....
Given that the S3 alone outsold Apple's flagship, it's clear that Samsung etc do fine at the high end too.
And whilst Apple may get all the IOS sales, Samsung Android phones alone outsell Apple (throughout 2012 - by Q3, this was as much as 2 to 1).
The phone networks give vast amounts of marketing for Apple's phones, and it's available and offered to people on loads of contracts.
"BMW do not care if they sell as many cars as Ford."
*shrugs* So if sales don't matter, why do Apple fans bleat on about it all the time in the first place, trying to spin Apple sales as being high? You're right, it doesn't matter. Lots of people buy Addidas on Burberry, but it doesn't mean that I have to. I'd rather buy what I like. Which is Android.
Re: US vs other countries
So wait - Android is bad because people only get it "free" on contract, and it's bad because its users are on PAYG? Which is it?? And why don't either of these criticisms apply to iphones, is there some magic third way? (Well, I guess there's buy outright, and have a SIM only contract, but I don't see why that's better, nor is there any evidence that people do this more with Apple, and on any platform, a minority of people do it this way.)
My observation is that many people buying Apple phones just do so because they have no idea that other phones are available. Even more so for ipads, where 10" Android tablets are unheard of, whilst the entire media hyped the ipad even before it was announced.
And virtually everyone buying iphones are just getting them "free" on contract. My experience is that Android, aside from being far more popular anyway, is also full of users who know about the different kinds of smartphones - considered Apple, and turned it down.
Re: US vs other countries
Most people I know in Cambridge have Android.
Note that iphones often seem more widespread, but for some reason Apple users seem far more likely to walk around holding their iphone or ipod in front of them, where as everyone else sticks in in their pocket. Also it's far more easier to recognise, due to the fewer models, and the ridiculous obvious Apple logo all over it. So you notice the one or two iphone users when walking somewhere, but you don't notice the 100 Android users.
With the S3 alone outselling the Apple flagship, it's clear that it's a myth that Android sales are mainly coming from cheaper sales. Also consider that these days, many Apple sales come from cheaper models, because many of their sales come from older models still available (even the ancient 3GS I've still seen on sale).
Plus, being cheap doesn't mean junk. It's well publicised how Apple has massive profit margins. Other manufacturers deliver what people want *and* do it at a lower price. Apple just pocket the profits for themselves.
Re: There's Android smartphones, and Android "phones"
J2me phones are called feature, not dumb. But it's not as simple as running native apps. WP can't do native, nor could android in the earlier days, and still most apps aren't native. Why is native code better?
Then there's a certain phone that couldn't do apps at all, but got counted as a smartphone...
Basically it's just a marketing term.
Re: There's Android smartphones, and Android "phones"
Look again. S40 phones have either full qwerty keyboard, or touchscreens. They've had this for years. They are smartphones by any sensible definition, albeit low end, but they don't get included in the stats. Meanwhile the iphone got counted, even when it couldn't run apps. It means that 100% of apple sales get compared to only some of Samsung and Nokia's. Complete spin.
Re: Android phones running 2.3 still being sold
Comparing who gets what updates is pointless, when they run entirely different OSs. If a dumb phone always had the latest updates, that wouldn't make it better. What matters is how the features compare. And it seems apple users needed those updates to get things like maps and copy paste, that android 2.2 already had.
The things that are new in android 4 do seem to be things that need the newer hardware, all the simpler features are already there.
Re: Android phones running 2.3 still being sold
And exactly the same could be said of android 2.3.
The galaxy mini is old anyway, almost 2 years old. The s3 mini comes with jelly bean.
Re: lets just modify a typical Fandroid commentard on an iPad article
If a product holds its value, it's a sign that there isn't much progress being made in the newer models.
I wish I knew these tactics back in the last days of the Amiga - "£2000 for an Amiga 4000? Actually that's much cheaper than your Mac, because it keeps its value longer".
Re: lets just modify a typical Fandroid commentard on an iPad article
Not really. I've never seen people making those comments of the Apple stories. The problem is when the media concentrate on endless vapourware and rumourware only about Apple all the time. The Register doing it for many companies is less a problem. (Alternatively, perhaps it would be nice to focus on actual news rather than vapourware, but I don't see what that's got to do with your moaning about "fandroids".)
"Bollocks, Samsung rtipped off the iPhone 4s , which is why the s3 differs so much"
Which phone did Samsung rip off the 4S with? The Samsung S2 was released 6 months before the 4S! Looks like the "ripped off" came the other way round...
(Unless you're talking about a phone that was neither the S2 nor S3, but I'm not sure which one?)
"but it takes style to make it sell, thats why they are always following apple , never leading !"
Flagship iphone 5 features are 4" screen (Samsung Galaxy S, 2.5 years ago) and maps (with Android for years, presumably since the beginning). Who's following who?
Given their Android phones alone outsell Apple two to one, not to mention all their other phones which make them the world's number one phone manufacturer, I think it's clear they know what makes things sell.
Re: More like PCs every day?
My LG smart TV has to occasionally reboot for updates[*], and I note my Android Galaxy Nexus phone now takes longer to boot than my Windows laptop. People sometimes criticise PCs saying they should be "more like electronic appliances", but the reality is that as the latter become computers, they acquire all of the annoyances of computers too.
(And as much as I love Android, the crash count is still higher than with Windows 7 these days, not to mention desktop Linux; similarly with other phone OSs too, they still seem less stable.)
[*] - It does let you choose when to do so.
I find Symbian and Android fine, each have their advantages and disadvantages - I don't see what makes the former a "joke". Unless you're comparing to older versions of Symbian, which isn't fair - we should compare like with like (e.g., Symbian^1 to older Android, Symbian^3 Belle to Android 4 - and there were no Android or iphone smartphones at the time of S60 3rd edition or before).
S40 meanwhile is intended at low end hardware - so probably not that good, but it should be compared to the dirt cheap Android phones (which also aren't very good), or the much older iphones (a joke compared to today).
And as for an OS that couldn't even run apps originally, and took years to get basic features like copy/paste, multitasking, and doesn't even support homescreens - and you say that isn't a joke? Each to his own, this kind of thing is subjective - but there's no objective measure that puts iphone above other platforms.
Re: The Microsoft effect
The point is about growth. WP has long had the problem that it struggles to get past 4 million a quarter (and often less than that) for all manufacturers. 4 million from one manufacturer, in half that time, is a significant sign of growth.
The same for Apple - for years the sales were terrible, less than 4 million per 6 weeks even for a while, but it showed steady growth. Indeed, I've got to laugh - the media and fans praised Apple for its supposedly good sales, whilst moaning about Nokia because their share was steady or falling (even though sales were actually increasing faster than Apple's).
Well now it's the other way round - Apple's share is falling, and WP shows growth. If you believe that relative growth is a good measure, then that should apply now. If you don't, Apple should never have got all that attention in the years from 2007.
(And I own Android, so don't care about WP. Indeed, it's a bit comical seeing iphone and WP fans argue about who isn't the most unpopular - "iphone, not as unpopular as WP!" - meanwhile, Android goes onto sell hundreds of millions all year round.)
"I think it clear, instead, that if you have a wide range of phones covering a wide range of features, then you'll appeal to a wide range of demographics within the public and therefore sell more phones. Consumers don't prefer choice"
Well that's exactly what I mean :) If I end up buying Samsung model 23 because that suits me perfectly, where as Apple model 2 doesn't, then I'm glad that Samsung offer the greater range of choice. (Sure, pedantically speaking if Samsung _only_ had model 23, I'd have still have bought it, but that would be luck - I still prefer that they offered me the choice of models.) And it's also clear that that's the stategy that's more successful.
Re: The Microsoft effect
iphone once had poor sales - a million in 76 days for example - yet that was hailed as a great success, even though companies like Nokia sold more than that _every single day_ (not just in the first weekend of a new release).
But when it's someone else selling a few million, that's poor. Right. Same old double standard.
"The only people I see buying it are people who do not care if it's Android, iOS or Windows - i.e. they just want a phone and they happen to like the look of that one."
Which describes most people, then.
"It's like the titanic - well made but a fatal flaw - it runs Windows in a market where people are buying iOS and Android."
If you're going to simplify things, people are buying Android full stop - or Android, and a few other minor OSs. With Android at 75%, iphone on 15% and falling, it's misleading to put them on the same level.
Indeed, it's interesting to note that the gap between WP and iphone is much less than the gap between iphone and Android (either by proportion, or absolute numbers of sales). Android really is that much way ahead. Even Samsung Android phones alone outsell iphone by two to one.
"Windows phone and Blackberry are probably going to account for less than 10% between them within 12-18 months."
And iphone are barely above that, so again it's odd to portray iphone on the same level as Android, but write off 10% of nothing.
"it's already a 2 horse race."
No, it's a race won by Android. The only question is how iphone, WP and Blackberry will do competing for the remaining shrinking share. (And it was _never_ a 2 horse race, btw - the "Android and iphone" is a myth; iphone only came 2nd place as late as a year ago, with the demise of Symbian, and at that time, Android was already way ahead and the clear winner.)
Didn't they do this a year ago? I'm sure I remember seeing this story early 2012, if not before.
"Apple, meanwhile, is limited in its range of phones while Samsung has an array of feature and smartphones."
Indeed - whilst focusing on a limited range may have some advantages (as Apple fans often tell us, e.g., making it easier for developers), it's clear that consumers prefer to have choice, and Samsung's (and still Nokia's) model wins out.
As an aside, the whole "feature" vs "smart" phone is rather ill-defined - feature phones are smartphones by any objective technical definition, albeit it usually lower end, not dumbphones. The term was only ever introduced as a marketing distinction around 2004, when Internet and apps became standard, to distinguish them from more expensive phones. (And the original iphone was marketed as a "smartphone" when it couldn't even run apps, when feature phones could!) But now with all the media hype on smartphones, I wonder why Samsung and Nokia still limit their lower end smartphones with the "feature" phone label. As an example, Nokia's new Full Touch Asha smartphone platform sold a massive 6 million in its first quarter earlier this year (iphone only managed 3 million in the first 6 months, despite vast amounts of advertising and media coverage) - more than their Windows Phone sales - but most reports seem to conveniently ignore it in the "smartphone" stats, because heaven forbid people realise Nokia are still more popular than believed (you would have thought "Nokia doing better on unknown platform than Windows Phone" would make a great anti-MS story, but there you are).
It also makes most sales comparisons unfair, as the media usually focus on "smartphones", which compares 100% of Apple sales, to only a fraction of other companies. This article shows the true picture.
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