10 posts • joined 12 Jun 2009
but you are not the target market...
Thank you for giving a perfect example of someone not understanding the difference between the hobbyist and consumer markets
"Real Applications" ... okay then, care to tell us exactly why Joe Bloggs needs the full fat version of Photoshop. I know its an El Reg badge of honour not to touch Facebook, but go and have a look at the pictures your non-IT friends upload on there. Compare how many haven't even had a simple red-removal and cropping applied to them to those that have. I'd be very surprised if the ratio was less than 1000-1, despite the fact that even the simple picture transfer utilities bundled with camera equipped phones usually include this functionality.
Those transfer apps are of course much nearer in size and functionality to those in App Store than they are to Photoshop too aren't they?.
Now given in market terms you are outnumbered around 1000 to 1, do you now understand why these 'limited functionality' tablets may well actually succeed when previous 'full-fat' iterations have failed so miserably, and why everyone but Microsoft seems to be thinking of lightweight apps.
Connectivity is another red herring. Judging from the number of wi-fi networks that my phone picks up if I wander around the fairly average working class estate on which I live, then think its safe to assume that wireless is the way everyone wants to go. My current HP printer/scanner is a wi-fi model and cost me the huge sum of £50. The PS3 has wi-fi as standard, and the XBOX is following suit. They're even starting to build it into TV's and Blu-ray players! Apples time machine is wi-fi hub / back solution if I'm not mistaken.
I don't think we're that far away from a most people adopting a simple mobile pad, wi-fi base station with combined storage solution. I would imagine that how most of El Regs readers already have this as their set up but with a laptop, router and NAS. Joe public wants something similar, but far simpler in implementation, and that looks to be on the way.
The majority non techies use computers to access the web and to hold their photo collections with maybe a little video. At a stretch some may do the family accounts, but then even Microsoft have canned Money. Word processing? What for? The occasional CV? That could be done in a simple template app, why shell out £100+ on office. E-Mail has replaced letters even for complaints in most cases.
The idea that everyone needs a huge powerful PC in the home is mainly superfluous - you may find it hard to believe but most people don't spend their spare time knocking up websites in Dreamweaver. When travelling to and from work I see the current college generation ( especially the female of the species ) spending almost all of their journey interacting most with a computer that is usually very small, not particularly powerful and lacking a proper full keyboard. Interestingly these computers are far more powerful than high end desktops were when I started working over 20 years ago. They even occasionally make telephone calls on them.
a very good synopsis of Microsoft's current problems.
Especially on the difference between the "hobbyist" and "consumer" markets which so many on here fail to grasp, particularly when the name Apple is mentioned.
what classic bit of fail
It is shockingly bad - I got a list of 36 machines, all with windows, the random few I clicked 'customise' on didn't offer a change of the base OS install and the filter pane on the right hand side hand included 5 OS choices - all windows - from XP through to 7...
Still I'm sure some Microsoft shill will post in a few minutes to tell us it's because there's no demand, and not due to Microsoft continuing it's abusive monopolistic practices...
Oh dear. Once again you can't hold back from the personal attacks. Must be close to the mark then. You claim to have had contact with various Linux distro's since '04 - so I take it your company is actively using it and must be happy with it as they haven't as yet replaced it with Windows.
Strawmen? what strawmen? Doing a search of The Register or even ZDNET will yield lots of nice examples of what I'm talking about, but then you knew that, didn't you? Don't like people drawing attention to the trend?
Mind you on the subject of strawmen, you drag out that old Microsoft supporter favourite - people don't want choice.
I guess that's why there's only one global car manufacturer making one model , one aircraft manufacturer, again only making a single model, one PC manufacturer ( I have a feeling Microsoft really wishes this, isn't the XBOX the first step in this direction? ), one video card manufacturer, one cake manufacturer, etc. Are you telling me things were better when Microsoft almost succeeded in limiting browser choice to IE?
Hey, in that case, surely there's only one version of Windows, isn't there? And it's interface has never changed since version 1.0. Wait, you mean there's choice, even in the Microsoft world? But isn't that all confusing and bad? Plus you really seem to believe Microsoft got where it is today by allowing free choice? I hope the kool-aid was tasty at least.
Choice - it's just so frightening isn't it? Isn't fear of alternatives the sign of someone who's bought into a religion - what's that word? a zealot? As I've pointed out a few times now on El Reg, the majority of comment threads in here involving Microsoft's competitors end up completely flooded with AC's parroting the Microsoft view whilst decrying others of zealotry and fanboism in the most abusive manner.
Funnily enough it's happened in an article about FSF engaging in a little marketing and lobbying on the subject of choice. Isn't that the kind of thing the big corps have done for years? Who pays for all the whitepapers linked to on this site? it's been fun to note that what's good enough for the goose definitely isn't good enough for the gander...
You know it's become so tiresome, tedious and obvious, that you can tell from an article title whether it's going to be so infected. But I suppose it's what you must expect from a company with an address of 1 Microsoft Way....
Cheers, thanks for proving my point and giving me a chuckle with my coffee, bet you had real trouble trying to keep your jibes less obvious
Microsoft don't astroturf? Really? Next you'll be telling me that they didn't force through an ISO standard that even they won't implement correctly. Or will you claim that they've never abused their ill gotten monopoly position to drive competitors out of business? Let me guess? i4i are just a patent troll? Google is the root of all evil? Apple has a browser monopoly too? Bluray is rubbish and downloads are the way forward? Did I miss one? Oh yes, Opera are just whining bunch of Scandinavians and why haven't the EU stopped Firefox being bundled with Linux distributions?
So you've never had any major issues with any Microsoft products? At all? And you've been in IT for how long? Here's another bit of disclosure for you - I used to be a Microsoft supporter years ago even going so far as intentionally buying a Gateway PC back in 94 as they were the only supplier at the time that had a deal to bundle Office. Funnily enough I'm looking into getting a new PC at the moment, and the bundling of Office is no longer a factor in the choice.
So in the real world, companies do factor in externalities, risk, training costs, support costs, rollout, legacy apps, testing, etc. and funnily enough the more forward thinking of those companies go for platforms that support open standards preferably supported by multiple vendors. Well, we all know how a certain company feels about open standards and competition. Choice, now there is a word that Microsoft seems to hate.
Myself? I'm just amused that people claim to still willingly support a company with a record like this - http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653 - but hey, thats your choice, just quit trying to make it the only one.
Whew, guess the moderatrix had a busy day yesterday...
Maybe she should get Microsoft to buy her a few beers tonight in gratitude.
I'm guessing those FSF letters hit the mark, given the way Microsoft has to mobilised it's army of astroturfers to scream blue murder about how bad they they've been told linux is.
If they aren't astrotufers, maybe they're simply MCSEs terrified they might have to undergo some retraining. 'Nobody gets fired for buying Microsoft' - I really hope there are people out there experienced enough to remember which company that phrase used to apply to, and how quickly that gem changed - and it will change again.
Also note how many claim, in rude and abusive language, that linux supporters are unhelpful zealots - straight out of the Microsoft play book that came to light under the Comes V Microsoft case. At the time I posted this there were 137 posts, a handful of which where intelligent support of Linux. The rest are abusive rehashes of the standard Microsoft shill points. Now thats the real zealotry at work. To paraphrase someone in response to another article 'Ignorance and misinformation like that doesn't come cheap, and no doubt they are well-paid to post it.'
Disclosure - I've used Linux for what must be over 10 years now, starting with SUSE 6.4. It was better than Windows then, and it still is ( I bought a boxed copy, not long after upgrading to Windows 95, simply out of interest because it came bundled with a whole load of interesting stuff for the time - apache / programming tools etc, and to help me gain some familiarity with *nix tools). Found myself using Linux more and more due to how much easier and efficient it was to deal with until I reached the point where Windows was for games only. Then Crysis came out and persuaded me that a console was a better long term investment than yet another new graphics card. Yes, I'd be annoyed if Microsoft managed to take that choice away from me. Imagine how bad it would be if Microsoft had a monopoly in other consumer electronic area's such as TVs.
On the professional side, the large multinational I currently work for has used Linux extensively in server room for years and is actively looking at the possibility of moving to Open Office and a Linux desktop when the next scheduled desktop refresh takes place in the next couple of years. Admittedly, it helps that the majority of internal systems are now web based, but that's the way the corporate world has been heading for a good while now.
The management are very aware of the perils vendor lock-in and actively look at solutions that use open standards and avoid any costly proprietary lock in. The FSF letter is aimed at helping those forward thinking CIO's press the case for open standards with the CEO's of their companies.
FSF must be doing something right - after all, if Linux was simply as niche hobbyist system as the Microsoft supporters claim, they wouldn't even need to respond to an article like this. What was it that Gandhi said?....
Wow, four days and the MS Astroturfers are still deperately trying to flood this with misinformation
I see they've slipped back to AC too, though I think I can guess the 'identity' of pair of them.
Such nicely written posts too. Surely if you have the brains to write so clearly and know the law around Monopolies so much better than the rest of The Register's readership, then you must surely be aware of the increasing number of anti-trust suits Microsoft keep loosing. Especially the one started by Department Of Justice and a number of American States. You know, the one that was going to see them split into separate OS and Applications companies, to kill off this problem once and for all? Took a change of government for them to wriggle out of that one, didn't it?
For those who really don't know, I suggest you visit the excellent groklaw.org, and have a look in their archives for the material from that case that ended up being released as part of the later Comes v Microsoft Trial. It really does lay to bed any idea that Microsoft would ever entertain a level playing field in anything they dip their claws into. The video of Bill Gates testimony is well worth a watch if you can get hold of it.
So Microsoft allows OEMs to install any browser they like? Oh really? Just like they've allowed netbook manufacturers to install any OS they like? If it was genuine zealot blindness on part of those posters, it might be funny, but as its paid astrotufing, it really is a sad indication of the mess we currently find ourselves in.
As for that particular poster that bangs on about 'group policies' and 'transparent single sign-on' - perhaps you can answer this? Is it simply because Microsoft extended an open standard to ensure no-one else could be compatible or because they won't publish the complete Windows API for others to work with? But then you probably have the same irrational hate of SAMBA as you do for Opera and the EU.
I take it you don't find all the badly thought out rantings of Microsofts paid cadre on the two current bundling stories excruciating to read?
I find reading them is like listening to a 5 year old child screaming for a new toy.
They were 'shills' when they had reasoned arguments and could have possibly had a defensible position on the topic. Now they're 'shrills' because all they do is rant 'Nooooooooooo, baddddd EU, now dare you treat a convicted monopolist like they're a convicted monopolist'
I'm beginning to wonder if they're the same astrotufers that the UKIP employ to flood out the BBC's Have Your Say, as they appear to have the same fleeting grasp on reality.
The handle policy at work
Thanks El Reg, for making tracking of the shrills much easier. I see they're already hard at work, posting Microsoft's current memes - 'How do you install another browser without IE', and 'Oh why are Apple allowed to get away with something similar?'
Of course I'm sure a number of others will point out the obvious answers to these strawmen, but no doubt the shrills will try and drown them out, after all they get paid to do it.
All I will say is, this is supposed to be a professional IT site, boys and girls, and you really shouldn't be posting if you can't think of three EASY ways of getting an application (which is all a browser is anyway ) onto a non technical users PC without using a browser, or if you don't understand the concept of monopoly abuse, something UK Money users have just had underlined to them...