25 posts • joined Tuesday 31st March 2009 20:33 GMT
Re: Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT
very rarely does a post hit the nail on the head, this one does. Spot on.
Microsoft internally clearly have big differences of opinion, WinDiv v Devdiv etc.
And I also think you are correct, insurance for Intel failing. Intel have 2 more changes in smaller silicon coming and if battery improves with it and they can match arm - game over. Business will stick with it.
There is no need for religeon on this either, if people want cheap consumer Android tablets thats great. Pricier stuff for work / Office etc can co-exist without internet trolls killing each other :)
@Chris Miller There is "training" or a brief guide when you first start Windows 8. This is what is most galling about all the "opinions" on this matter - mostly coming from people who have strong views but never actually tried retail/release Windows 8.
Basically, use Windows 8 as an IQ testing tool. If you fail to be able to use it after a minute of using it (like an 8 year old girl) you didn't pass the test and should retire from office life.
It is literally childs play.
[As others have pointed out, Windows key and scroll wheel mouse (or touch screen) on actual hardware would have made most of this "research" moot. Nonsense article. El Reg needs to do better than this drivel that belongs in the like of Computer Shopper Magazine]
Re: I'll argue the difficult
Way-to-go Cheesey, someone who gets it:
"Enter Windows 8 (not RT) and here comes apps for programming, engineering, games, etc... Windows 8 allows you to dump your iPad and your laptop and have a single device. The fact is, I have even using it for a year and love being able to either use a tablet or use it as a PC."
That's exactly what I hope to be doing. Handing back my iPad and Dell plastic fantastic and using a Surface.
Re: For someone who lives in a big city
A reasonable post. The Salesforce twerp summarily dismisses legacy applications, the OEM arrangement of which you speak. Price (As you say Apple is at a premium, ie twice the price for the same thing).
Google have faffed with Chromebook, but then that just could be symptomatic of the fact that it isn't as easy to do (build an OS) as even the bearded+sandled Linux lobby would have you think.
To suggest Windows is dead is stupid at best. Although I have had dinner with another CEO of one of the largest IT security companies in the world who said the same thing. I explained to some CIOs at the same dinner that a Windows 8 tablet is like their iPad, except you could do work on one - and they all said that's what they wanted. Its a mixed up crazy world :)
Piro, surface does change this.
Use of full MS Office.
Use of Mouse.
Multiple identities (one of the big downers of iPad)
Its not about the hardware (you do realise Macs are just Intel PCs right? And RT, Android and iPad are ARM SOCs?)
Its the software. Android does not have the legacy Windows Line of Business Apps. Apple can't do real content creation.
As an example, I am sat right now with 100 feet of over 300 iPads. Not 1, 1 is being used as the primary work machine. They are taking to meeting email/document readers / nice gadget to show off at home.
Basically, if you cannot be put in front of Windows 8 (without training) and just figure it out - you basically don't meet a basic set of computer literacy and IQ that I would consider neccessary to work in a modern company/ white collar environment. My kids figured it out on their grandads computer running the consumer preview.
Most of the people pouring hate on Windows in here are generally haters (Linux nerds, Mac lovers or even Windows users who haven't "lived" with Win8 beyond poking a VM or the RC).
It's all a nonsense non story. Windows 8 will sell hundreds of millions of copies as per Windows 7. We will move on and no one will care about this debate in 6 months. Windows 8 is fine.
>I'm going to adopt a neutral stance and say I distrust all politicians and their parties. I'm suspicious of anyone who wants to be 'in power'.
To be fair anonymous, the majority of politicians really do want to make a difference and do the right thing. There is much more money to be had by these upper class types in private companies, than in public office. The fact they chose to do what they do (given the PITA the job is, and the unsociable hours) the majority must be well intentioned. Of course, it will always descend into a war of words, as they are influencing public opinion. A public who generally don't have a clue how the world works.
(I work in a office, and a bloke sat across the way thought our debt problems were over - not that our debt is increasing by billions month on month!)
Just ask some questions of people around you. What is our GDP, what % do we spend on Welfare etc.
Most people don't know. Governments are terrible at articulating this stuff. Its no wonder people don't make informed decisions. Its just personalities. I hate David. I love Boris. Its kindergarten voting.
If a white collar, company car driver from middle England can't get his noggin' round this stuff - its an uphill struggle for the rest eh!
I love how your sensible view is down voted by the lefties. Who will disagree with anything if it doesn't fit their position. Someone once said, never argue with a socialist nor someone of religion as "they have belief on their side". The facts, or balanced opinion will evade them.
Would people rather have a system without rules/boundaries/checking/verifying?
Perhaps rather than someone with a reasonable upbringing should be replaced by Bob Crowe or some other Millwall supporter ;) Honestly, its not like the Ed's aren't silver spoon merchants either.
Hiding to nothing on twitter though, you're just gonna attract the great unwashed - even happens on El Rego comments ;)
Re: Stick his tweets up his butt.
How can you put a % against something which you are being blagged on?
I know someone who has been "getting away with it" for 15+ years. He probably counts as one of your genuines :)
Trousers the disability payments, yet still manages to "stagger" to the bookies, Asda, drive a car etc.
If you think that there isn't a really high % of people taking the proverbial, you're very naïve.
Couple that with GPs who will sign people off of work for 2 weeks because they are "stressed".
(What, you mean you have kids, job, irritating boss and a sniffle? Here have 2 weeks off poor thing)
No wonder the country is not in great economic shape compared to our friends eastward who put in a shift and the older generation who just got on with it. Different times, every "deserves it". LOL
Re: Having read comments on El Reg for the past couple of months...
LOL H4rm0ny, great post. The whiney vocal minority.
You should see Windows Phone 8 threads on websites, and how much hate is poured on that by Angry Android fans (even though IMHO WP is smooth as butter like iPhone - and far superior to Droidphones)
Angry techies. We shouldn't be surprised there are a ton of 'em on el reg comments :)
Re: Based on....
Desktop is dead (bar us hard core gaming addicts ;))
Personal computing will be just that, personal. The days of big black boxes under the desk are slowly disappearing my friend.
Intel have just invested squillions in touch screen tech firms. Touch is the next phase of computing.
It will then be augmented computing (Google Glasses and Valves version, I forget the name)
Then eventually natural language input <- years away. Go Google the ex Microsoft bloke who was working at Microsoft then left to join Valve to work on glasses, as natural language wouldn't happen in his lifetime he said.
So to recap for you:
now -> touch -> glasses -> natural language
Re: Its a new paradigm
That's all predicated on the fact you think you're right Trevor.
How about consumer don't care as much as you do about the OS.
How about I know plain ol' consumers who like Windows 8!
People will mostly get this as consumers via an OEM license. And business will agonise over the UI training, but do it for support purposes.
If it were really "that bad", people can go get Linux, or OSX on Apples "double-the-price" hardware.
Its all about choice. Truth is, Windows is priced correctly, and not all that bad. Despite whether you like the new UI or not.
There are plenty of ranty poorly formed opinions in Windows 8 all over the Internet. There is no MS conspiracy. No more than Apple only giving out iPhone 5s prior to release to sycophantic reviewers like Walt Mossberg.
My scorn mostly comes from people talking balls about how it works, and them clearly not having used Windows 8. I've heard people say "why not just have an alphabetical list of apps", when in fact, it does!
The only valid thing I've seen people say is they don't like how it looks. If its just that, a subjective appearance thing - that valid. I don't the colour of the office walls. But the functional stuff, people do talk utter dribble about. Its no more difficult to use, its not slower to use, its not harder to use. It just takes a little bit of "adjustment" as Paul Allen has found. Takes a few days. But that will benefit ass touch computing takes a firm hold (and it will).
Anyway, like you - all the whining isn't going to change a thing, Metro is staying for the foreseeable.
Re: Its a new paradigm
Because Metro is the start menu.
The salient point to grasp, is that Metro is the future - Desktop=legacy. It won't happen overnight.
MS have smartly kept Desktop (had to) as its chicken and egg. Once apps from MS and ISVs get Metro versions then legacy can fade out.
Most people don't use more than handful of apps regularly.
Only angry techies have their panties up in a bunch over Metro.
Put your most used in the tiles, or live data tiles you want to get reminders of.
I'm not a fanboy, it works, I am just as productive as I am on Win7.
It will make more sense as we get Win tablets or touchscreen notebooks - which over the next couple of years will come as standard. All the current hysteria will die down, and we will wonder what the fuss was all about (just like we did when there were people getting all exercised when the Start Orb was added :) )
Netbook keyboard, please license it!
Pls pls Motorola let other people devices with that Netbook form factor, including that fantastic keyboard.
Even today, no other device of that size has had a keyboard so luxurious.
>Windows 8 isn't ideal for many big businesses and government users.
Nice opening gambit. Completely false and shows bias.
I was at a seminar this week. Bloke asks the gathered delegates, hands up if you like Metro.
One half of the audience raises hands.
Later in the day, 2 MS blokes takes the audience through the very basics of logging into a Win8 PC.
The same people who didn't "like" Metro, "ooooh"ed and "ahhhhH"ed with delight as the MS guys pushed the noses of his kids in a photo to log in. (Picture password)
Underpinning my observation about Win8. Most haters have never used it, or not used it as their main machine for more than a poke of the preview. Its said, that 4 days is the time it takes to adjust from old world to Win 8.
I suspect in a years time, this won't be a debate, nor will people whine about the UI. Loads of really nice Metro apps will be out - and we will have moved on. With MS shifting about 100 million licences in the process.
I've been in the IT industry long enough to witness this same reticence and whining when XP and start orb came into being. Win8 has got some really nice elegant features. Its not perfect, but its more perfect than a) what Windows went before, and b) any other OS on the tablet/PC market. Simplez.
Re: MS need to shed Ballmer
Oh dear. Another clueless Ballmer hater. Why do you hate him?
How do _you_ know what kind of job he is doing?
Is he a good people person? Good at keeping their OpEx down?
You haven't got a scooby doo whether he is good or not.
Microsofts numbers have been fantastic of late. They have for the first time in a very long time got a very decent and clearly matching and consistent looking portfoilio from Xbox, Phone and PC.
You can't see MS catching up on Apps, when many AAA Apps are available and WP8 will have a similar dev platform to W8RT making ports simple. (Even the Unreal Engine will run on the phone, and ports of Games using it fairly trivial to move over)
But like any typical Ballmer hater, you just don't like the big man based on his personality.
Unlike many CEOs, he's a really interesting character. The IT world would be very boring with chair throwing Monkey boy. He seems deeply passionate about Microsoft from what I can see, so good luck to him.
I want MS to be successful, as successful companies make great products for *US* the consumer.
The surface is not being made for business success on its own, but rather showing OEMs what is possible if they apply themselves. Tablets currently are CONSUMPTION devices, the surface, RT and W8 on tablet will mean we can consume AND WORK/CREATE! I know many people who want to get one, myself included. I can throw out my iPad - which I barely use (once the initial gadget lust wore off).
Childish MS hating in comments, never stops does it. Kids, should allow em on the Internet. ;)
Re: Downvotards amaze me
Anyone who likes a Microsoft product or service is "a shill".
Will you ever grow up? Do you still type M$?
I know comments areas are like this, especially Engadget or Games Forums - but shouldn't we be more grown up on The Register?
I for one was on Google Apps (paid for BTW) before looking into Googles practices for a client, and Google worry me with what they do with data/privacy, and as Hotmail is now pretty good - I switched back to Hotmail.
I love my 2 Windows phones I've had. (I've had iPhone, Android handsets, and still have a BB)
I also really like the Windows 8 OS I'm using right now. And have moved off of my MacBook by putting my data on Skydrive and like Skydrives simple photo sharing for my family. So I am more and more an MS product and service user as they are really nice to use nothing more. Please don't call me a shill as I happen to like their stuff.
RICHTO, console yourself in the fact that Unix is dieing. x86 + Windows will kill it as long as Moores Law continues.
Windows Server is actually pretty solid these days, and cheap as chips compared to AIX kit and anything from Oracle costs a kings ransome.
Non argument. From The Register today:
"Unix systems based on RISC or Itanium processors accounted for $2.15bn in revenues in the second quarter, down 17.9 per cent."
x86 was over 9billion by comparison. Big Iron is a minority sport, which will become less and less used as Windows + x86 will be enough for most workloads.
Re: Apples and oranges?
Anonymous Coward, you have now met one - me!
I can tell you that 365 is a better business proposition than Gmail.
Direct contract, direct support. Better co-existence whilst migrating away from in-house Exchange (which is where most companies will be coming from)
Better Office document compatability.
I don't dislike Google, but they rule themselves out as they just aren't ready for mid to large companies.
Office 365 is actually very good. But your anti MS blinkers might prevent you from giving it a good go ;-)
Only children, and angry techies use add-ons. Soccer mom doesn't.
I actually switched back to IE recently, never thought I'd say it. Chrome was doing it for me.
But IE and now this v10 on Windows 8 does enough, stable enough and QUICK ENOUGH now - that installing an alternate browser just isn't necessary.
Bear in mind I am using a ton of apps, and doing all the techie things techies do - and I'm doing my job just fine without a single add-in. Amazing but true :) But yeah, just like Linux zealots with their hair on fire, its cool to bash MS (or it used to be in the 90s. I thought we'd grow up since then? Maybe not) MS have had a good renaissance recently. Long may it continue. I also hope all of them do well, RIM, Google, Apple etc - as this competition is ultimately good for us the consumer.
Re: Compare to Google ?
I'll compare for you.
Google will retain private data about you in the Googleplex. Social security number, phone numbers, addresses, friends, all your online shopping orders - could be anything, and is usually _everything_
You can test this for yourself by signing up to services. Deleting your account and looking at destinations on Google maps to be amazed that Google still knows all about you :)
Google could get a lot more goodwill on the privacy front by allowing you to remove your data. The trouble is, internally they splatter your data around between services so liberally that its a practical issue - if not an ethical one.
On paid services, MS do not scan all your email. On Office 365 for example they don't scan your messages.
Gmail DOES still scan messages (or at least partial parts of messages - try getting a honest answer out of Google - I want to see how you get on with that )
Suggesting that MS behave as Google do is laughable. MS are in the Forbes top 20 for ethical companies.
Google will never be there :)
Google worry the bejasus out of me. I'll take MS over Google any time in that regard.
eadon you're a bell end
see title. You cannot create a link between the life saving efforts of Bill and Meldinda, and the work they've done to convince billionaires to donate to worthy causes, and some PR droid pushing BING. You really have demonstrated your lack of understanding and maturity with this ridiculous rant.
Gary, Geoff did not advocate EQL, he said you shouldn't constrain your product choice based on protocol.He also explained the practical EQL limitations (100TB and >FC1) He is correct, and you're not reading his remarks correctly. We've got FC NetApp and iSCSI EQL, and our EQL arrays are faster by a fair margin. But to be honest, neither are taxed too heavily in terms of IOPS, only constant load.
I too am amazed out how ludicrous this article is. Suggesting iSCSI isn't enterprise ready is like how people used to say "TCP won't scale". All very naive. We got off the FC path a while ago and stopped buying, as its just plain obvious that iSCSI is the way to go. Voice, Virtual Servers, and Storage are all layers of the same onion, you'd have to have a very unique reason for building an entire FC SAN, and have deep pockets to buy and maintain it. I'm glad I'm not going cap in hand to EMC or NetApp for FC kit anymore.