1865 posts • joined 26 Jan 2009
Re: Good grief
> but the PCs are rubbish
They are not. They're the same collection of random spare parts as the Apple product.
The only real difference is the OS.
Stop swimming in the kool-aid.
Re: Lot of money....
Except this AIO concept isn't even like a house or a car where you outsource all of the maintenance. This is more like some car where the hood is WELDED shut.
If a device isn't maintainable by an enthusiast then it won't be maintainable by a mechanic either.
Although plugging in a new video card is not nearly the chore some would try to make it out to be.
Re: All fugly except the mac
> but without Apple levels of service etc.
You mean components that cook themselves and leaving your machine at the Apple Store for 2 weeks?
Apple can't touch the "fugly" vendors when it comes to service. It's far too much of a consumer doo-dad company. Apple doesn't really sell to people that have to worry about the cost of downtime. They are completely out of touch when it comes to "service".
Don't believe the hype.
> Several studies, made in different ways (ie event monitoring software, returns to manufacturer, customer surveys) suggest that Apple computers are fairly reliable.
I don't need "studies". I have owned several Macs.
A little firsthand experience cured me of any clueless admiration I might have had for Apple or it's products.
It's hard to get a real evaluation of their stuff since it is expensive and vendor locked and pretty much anyone that's bothered to own their products are already drinking the kool-aid. You might as well ask a Jesuit what he thinks of the pope.
Re: EVOLUTION of IT
> Appstore an evolution of Linux repositories, hilarious.
Not really. Just watch what scrolls by during Cydia installs. It's very enlightening.
You sound like a fanboy that can't handle that his messiah is a thief.
Nice self-nuke there.
> and it would push the price up for everyone.
Are you kidding? Really? This isn't Dell we're talking about.This is a "luxury brand". Leaving things out because of some need to cut corners is really not consistent with the usual Apple propaganda.
It could be a useful option.
That space could also be used for other interesting things like a 2nd hard drive.
Not everyone is some iPad wielding granny.
Re: Patents cost us money
> No agency can be expected to search every nook and cranny
If only "nooks and crannies" were involved here. A lot of the stuff that the US PTO lets through baffles undergrads and hobbyists. This isn't about obscure arcana but about having nothing resembling a clue and no interest in doing a proper job.
Re: Waste of Space (Don Jefe)
> I suspect most US citizens are convinced anyway that Samsung is ripping off Apple
You're just kidding yourself.
In all likelihood, most probably don't care about such "finer points" and just want their cheap doo-dad. They are not aware of the insanity with patents and aren't even aware of your silly propaganda (never mind actually buying into it).
Re: Waste of Space
It would still be an example of crony politics and protectionism even if it were declared acceptable under the law.
The fact that something is legal hardly makes it right.
Re: 235 patents & laches
> why has Foxconn, the biggest hardware manufacturer in the world, just signed a licensing agreement to pay Microsoft?
Appeasement usually seems like the easier, lest costly option.
Re: SOFTWARE SOFTWARE SOFTWARE
> Name one alternative
Why? You will just find some weak excuse to discount them all just as idiots like you have always done.
It doesn't matter if the license is open or not or what the platform.
You can't get over your brand fixation. Quality actually has nothing to do with it. Never has.
Anything that is not the herd choice will get shouted down. It's like you're a pod person.
That's one of the reasons I dumped Windows. I didn't need pod people screeching at me for daring to use an alternative to the herd selected brand.
Re: This is nonsense
> If you consider the differences between Windows 3 and 95 to be minor, then you do not understand the sort of software design changes that are patentable
The fact that trivial nonsense can be patented does not alter the fact that it is trivial nonsense.
> Why do you need to compare when for the majority of users MS comes pre-installed.
Sooner or later the bit rot will set in and they will need to reinstall.
The beauty of Unix (and this Linux) is that you can set it up and forget it about and leave it in a closet until you forget how you ever managed to install it to begin with.
It's Windows that needs constant maintenance just to remain safe to use.
> How do you know my "aging" [sic] mother is not a fucking computer scientist?
I know a 90 year old retired accountant that doesn't even speak very good English that does well enough adapting to new tech. It's more about the personality than the skill set.
The whole GUI concept allows for exploration and discovery. You just have to be willing to use it. If you aren't willing to bother at all then no amount of shiny shiny is going to help.
> You clearly haven't had the pleasure to support a totally computer-illiterate user
There should be a Godwin's Law variant for this as you are describing an impossible situation. Your "granny" isn't going to be any better equipped to deal with Windows. She will require an equal amount of hand holding and be just as confused by it as she would be by Linux.
You are Microsoft's unpaid support network as these people would not be able to cope without you around to pick up the slack.
Re: Perhaps a little research ?
> yeah, maybe start by trawling through the internet to find the specific command line needed to extract the package and installl it?
You mean like unzip or unarc?
I'd hate to see how this guy would react to the really old versions Windows.
Although it sounds like his brain would melt even if he encountered an oddball Windows archive format.
Re: Desktops will never disappear
...it gets even better.
CAD applications tend to have a command line. They aren't just GUI driven. They just don't need a big display and a mouse for that "your grandma would be able to handle it" interface but they also need an actual keyboard for the really precise manipulations of the drawing.
It turns out that professional content creation is not a task for dummies or people afraid of their tools.
Re: Desktops will never disappear
> The danger is that if desktop machines become significantly less popular, the cost will increase
Nonsense. In the old days the "off brand" machines were always cheaper. I bought my first non-PC in the 80s for $300. It took another 20 years for PCs to catch up to that kind of pricing. Meanwhile you have general purpose ARM devices being sold for $50. The world is full of microprocessors. Anyone can design and build their own variant of a PC and offer it up for the world.
A lot has changed since a really crappy 8088 clone would set you back $1000.
Re: There's really no reason to bash MS for not disclosing details
Ok Mr "I'm a business professional". Explain how defamation is not an actionable tort. Microsoft has made some serious accusations without basis in an attempt to damage the credibility and business of competitors. There's probably a specific Lanham Act cause of action in there.
Talking trash is a dangerous business in the real world where adults live.
Microsoft benefits from the fact that it is the industry bully and it's defaming a loose collection small entities none of which really have the clout or resources to mount a legal counteroffensive.
Re: Microsoft *has* NOT won. AT ALL.
> anybody who believes Linux, etc have no infringing patents is just plain stupid.
No trivial device or software is free of problems with patent trolls.
You can get shaken down just for using your multi-function printer.
This is a much wider problem than the anti-Linux FUD you're trying to propagate there.
Re: Trevor Pott I'm not sure Microsoft *has* won.
> and the market for real "power users" is how big compared to the masses of average desktop lusers and home user
The IBM PC clone is turning back into what it originally was: a business machine. That may not mean "power users" but it does mean people that need to get stuff done. Given the number of PCs in corporations, that is no trivial number.
As the "toaster" users flee to tablets, the relative share of power users will INCREASE among PC users rather than go down.
Re: I'm not sure Microsoft *has* won.
MATE not stable? You could have fooled me. Been using it since I upgraded all of my Ubuntu boxes to 12.04.
"Stability" is not something I would knock it for.
You've got to be kidding.
Most of the basic UI elements from Win95 were not invented by Microsoft. They were cobbled together from a wide range of sources including CDE and other ancient window managers. A lot of the apparent missing prior art is MIA primarily because the author refused to really acknowledge the state of X before 1995.
The the first "clone" of Windows95 was nothing more than a theme for an existing window manager (fvwm).
A start menu is nothing more than an anchored app menu from any of the early window managers.
Re: People are stupid as a whole.
> My comment is based on the fact that it's annoying not being able to make a cup of tea in a hotel room. And I'm British, dammit.
Then grow a stiff upper lip and wait a few more seconds for the electric kettle to do it's thing.
Re: People are stupid as a whole.
>>Only in America...
> Only in America would they insist in using kettles you have to put a flame under, rather than using electric kettles like the rest of the world.
Who's insisting? What do you think this is? Europe?
We can brew tea any way we like.
Sometimes I even break out the stock pot for when I have a non-metric ton of freshly culled Mint leaves.
Re: Bill Gates knows nothing about morality
> Then don't be surprised when someone shits all over yours.
I'm sure you didn't intend it but you basically just declared him a person of significance.
Re: Bill is right this time.
> I don't think I'd call paying the taxes required by law and not one penny more 'weaseling' their way out of taxes,
Except this is about shuffling money around bogus corporate entities in order to gain the most favorable status possible. For most people this seems inherently unfair because most of us aren't in a position to do this. This includes a good number of small businesses to. Although governments that set themselves up as havens for tax scofflaws deserve just as much derision as the megacorps that exploit them.
Re: Bill is right this time.
> People running corporations have a *duty* to maximize shareholder value.
This is a grand excuse for all sorts of anti-social nonsense.
Surely you jest
> they just want something simple and easy to use for Facebook and on-line shopping etc.
Tablets are actually pretty crummy for online shopping. Tablets do OK with a very limited focus and a very small list of features. Beyond that, tiny screens and the tablet interface fare poorly.
The problem with the PC market is that a 5 year old PC is good enough. They're not like tablets where a year old model seems hopelessly out of date. Even an ancient PC can run circles around current tablets when it comes to pure computation. Plus PCs are much more flexible.
Even as appliances, "tablet hardware" does poorly against 5 year old PCs that were trailing edge hardware even then.
Re: BBC article revelations... XBox is not about games!
> Is it too much hardship to run two boxes for a while or relegate one to the spare room?
That's a kind of "you use our stuff only" kind of assumption. It ignores anything else you're doing and the ability of your equipment to handle all of it. Not to mention the space.
Yes. Needing to deal with a bunch of legacy equipment is a bother.
Re: XBox One == Creepy Snooping Apparatus
> I'm certainly no conspiracy theorist - I go for cock-up before conspiracy. But say the feds want to investigate someone then being able to access a camera and microphone in their front room is going to be very tempting.
This isn't even a particularly new idea. This sort of thing was a staple of a show from the 80s.
We are now living 10 minutes into the future.
Someone WILL hack into your urinal cam.
Re: Cable TV overlays?
> Out of interest, do you have any references for Atom vs ARM speeds? It's easy to find benchmarks comparing different ARM processors, but I've yet to find ARM vs x86...
Video manipulation and decoding make nice quick artificial benchmarks.
Just boring and mindless hype.
There is nothing terribly interesting about taking a TV signal and overlaying stuff on it. That's just picture-in-picture. You still have to control the other device(s) suitably well. You still have to deal with content from other sources.
HDMI passthru is really just a big fat surrender. You're advertising that you've given up on being a central media hub. At that point, you might as well use better discrete devices because that's what you are doing anyways.
Games are what game consoles do better than a $60 Roku or $100 BluRay player. If the games aren't compelling then you have no point as a game console. Being a more expensive and more complicated version of what everyone else is already doing is not compelling.
Re: Don't buy an Xbox One
> Games are not films. Typically you're unlikely to go back to a game after you've upgraded your console a few times.
You mean there is no such thing as a classic game?
There's a whole world of classic game fans to contradict you. This includes things like MAME and Good Old Games. I play a Loki game every so often. Some attempts to remake games just fail horribly (like Sim City). You are quite often better off with the original even if you have to emulate the original hardware.
People play games again for the same reasons they watch a movie again.
> This needs to work in the Marketing Director's big-screen pc or mac to be taken seriously - HDMI won't cut it.
HDMI will likely be fine for anything that isn't trying to be pointlessly different and needlessly incompatible.
This may pose problems with Apple users but those are a small minority.
As far as video goes...
Chances are that this PC on a stick is no less limited than the PI. It's just that the PI is more open to things that will make those limitations painfully obvious. It's no worse than a similar streamer appliance. You just don't have any artificial restrictions that make it less obvious how lame the hardware is.
A Dell on a stick may suffer from the same problems. There is no tour guide to keep you out of trouble.
Re: Cost per Gigabyte? Yes.
> Wait until the average user's anti-virus or backup kicks in and see how responsive their laptop is. Try searching for a file at the same time and tabbing between windows. This is hardly "power-user proposition"
Sure it is. You're just out of touch with the vast bulk of PC users out there.
Although the two batch jobs there should not be interfering with user responsiveness. That's just poor systems software engineering. A lot of the hyped benefits of SSDs come down to certain operating systems doing poorly at what is basically 70s style multi-user concurrency.
Re: cheaper than a PC?
This too is a pretty old idea. There have been ready made cluster node VMs available for a number of years now. Before that, you could roll your own if you wanted.
Re: Nice @AC 12:21
> It took half a decade of coding for Windows to convince me that it's actually a plucky little platform and even its quirks are quite endearing when you've seen it soldier on, day in and day out, for years, doing useful work with respectable consistency.
Soldier on? Consistency?
You've got to be kidding.
Microsoft lowering the bar with Windows is a very big part of why ARM devices are so trendy right now.
Cub Scout projects
Like the other guy said. The problem is that this is a project not for adults but for novices and children. It's a proof of concept system at best. In that regard, it's very much like any other cluster built out of ancient or woefully underpowered hardware. It's the butt of every joke about building a Beowulf cluster of something.
Re: Monopoly based mental block.... I think not
Before the rise of the tablets, I would have had a problem just plain GIVING a Mac to a stubborn low impact WinDOS user. The brand fixation with Microsoft was a near impenetrable barrier. Now dumping Microsoft products seems a lot easier for them. I suspect that's due to tablets successfully displacing PCs.
Suddenly it's not all Microsoft products anymore.
The times, they are a changing...
> Your lying , your missus dumped off 500 pounds worth of iPad for a smaller Tab 2.
Like I said. Not everyone wants the same black Model-T.
Contrary to the opinion of the fascists-in-denial, one size does not fit all.
Apple is not "inevitable". We don't have to turn the iPad into the next MS-DOS.
Grave to cradle.
> Of all people, I didn't expect you to sing along to what M$ wants to make us believe. Tablet with monitor, keyboard, and mouse? Like the Surface perhaps?
I could see some future more open tablet device docking to my KVM switch and being the equal of any of my older conventional PCs. That's not the direction were vendors are trying to direct things now but there's no reason it can't happen.
Most of the problem with tablets is bad policy imposed by short sighted platform megalomaniacs.
Re: Isn't this a bad thing for the industry?
> , it will not simply be replaced by what is essentially a computing periferal.
The "terminal" will not die. People will still need to compute on devices with "old fashioned" inputs. They may go back to being "business machines" but they won't go away entirely.
Monopoly based mental block.
> You absolutely hit the nail on the head, there... whether they go to Apple or an Android, these folk radiate a "wow, this is what I always wanted my PC to be like" glow.
This has more to do with the fact that it isn't Windows than anything else. People have had this long established mental block encouraged by Lemming FUD. Everyone was conned into believing that PC equals DOS and Windows. Most users would have been better off served with something NOT from Microsoft. Yet the monopoly feedback loop and constant propaganda made everyone feel trapped.
Tablets offered a fresh start with a product that superficially seems different than everything else.
It allows people to get past the idea they can use only one brand of OS.
Re: Erosion of PC market could be a death spiral
> Quicken? !
> Last time you used any form of PC or saw what "professionals" or businesses actually use was...?
Quickbooks is very much entrenched in the small business sector. Accountants use it and you need to be compatible with your accountant. It's the corporate equivalent of Quicken. The claim was poorly stated but essentially true.
If not Quickbooks then some similar alternative will be used and likely require something other than a Tivo user interface.
The missus was an iFan early adopter. She had her iPad1 probably before a lot of the fanboys here even ever saw one. Once she saw my 7" Tab2 she was immediately hooked and dumped all of her Apple products. While it was true that it was an impulse buy because of it's price, the price tag had nothing to do with the larger device with the fruity logo being immediately DUMPED.
Apple (and fanboys) showed open contempt for end users with a shred of independent thought or creativity and was soundly proven wrong.
> People get the 7" BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER! , The bigger screen gives a better experience,
No. The 7" screen gives you a better experience depending on your use case.
Contrary to popular fascist opinion, people are different. One size really does not fit all. There is room (nay desire) for more than one option in the market. Not everyone wants the same black Model-T.
Inherently cheaper devices only serve as a "gateway drug" to clue people in that they don't need to be a slave to one particular brand.
Re: Colour me shocked
The real problem is that a 5 year old PC is still respectable.
A 5 year old tablet or video streamer is a joke. Plus, the market isn't saturated yet.
The ARM device market is about where PCs were 20 years ago. In a world fixated on the newest thing and only the current quarter, a lot of ink gets dedicated to the flavor of the moment. Meanwhile, even mainframes happily chug along doing pretty much what they've always done.
The problem with the iTunes mentality is that if you don't like iTunes you're screwed.
A closed system is hell for a discriminating consumer. You're stuck eating nothing but Taco Bell.
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