Kebabbrain (2 of 2)
....
And why do you all of a sudden choose a x86 server. Why not use the T5440 ? Why cause a 256 Thread 32 Core 256GB T5440 does a medicore 4720 SAP users on the same benchmark.
SUN T5440 with 32 cores and 256GB RAM
4720 USERS/18 users per thread/148 users per core.
SUN X4640 with 48 cores and 256GB RAM
10000 USERS/208 users per thread/208 users per core.
Power 550 with 8 cores an 64 GB RAM
3752 USERS/232 users per thread/464 users per core.
"The POWER6 is inefficient, it NEEDS 5GHz to match one Intel/AMD CPU. Let us clock POWER6 down to 1.4GHz and see how good it is then."
It will most likely be very good, and very efficient. But how come that all the benchmarks that the T5440 does it has many many times the Memory of any other system that it is compared to ? It's a factor of 3 on the above SAP benchmark, a factor of 8 on the SPECjAppServer(R)2004 benchmark you mentioned...
And what do you think that the Oracle price is for the DB on the above SAP benchmark as it is a 2-tier benchmark ?
It's bloody 24 licenses versus 8 for the power 550.. and they do cost 40KUSD+ a piece...
"So how about the POWER7? Will it also suck? It has great specs, yes. Maybe it will even be faster than Nehalem on some things!
<Deleted strange stuff>"
See the cache calculations above. 'nuff said.
"Regarding the consolidation of 251 Dell Linux servers down to 24 SUN T5220, even better. The T5440 has four CPUs. The T5220 has only two Niagaras. Probably it would suffice with just 12 of the T5440. One POWER6 have trouble beating one Intel or AMD. I bet POWER6 could not consolidate all these dual cpu intel Linux servers. Because POWER6 is good at single threaded work, but not on this work."
You have no idea of what you are talking about. There is a think called overcommitment on the POWERVM hypervisor. On my little serverfarm we run with a overcommitment factor of 3. Hence we use a 16 way POWER 570 as it was a 48 way server. On our internal machines, we use a factor of 5, hence a 16 way machine becomes a 80 way. machine. I don't expect you to understand, but that is how it is.
"Bull shit. We both know that Oracle will decide. Oracle has not presented any decisions yet. You are just rampling, here. Maybe there will be a Venus box."
Well lets see then. But they had better do a better job than they did going from 2->4 cores. On SPEC OMPL2001, the scaling was an amazing 18% for double the number of cores. And an amazing 13% if you correct for an increase in GHz.
http://www.spec.org/omp/results/res2007q2/omp2001-20070417-00252.html
and
http://www.spec.org/omp/results/res2008q3/omp2001-20080714-00308.html
"You need a radical design to circumvent this problem, which Niagara T2 does. It does not need large cache to be several times faster than POWER6. Nor high bandwidth."
BLEH it does it by magic powder right. The T2 design is good, but not ground breaking. And it still has less cache, less memory bandwidth per 'click' than POWER6.
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"It reminds me of when I showed links that Niagara is 13 times faster than a IBM CELL on large workloads (string pattern matching). Then you chimed in and said something like "that is not relevant, the CELL is 70% faster on small workloads!". Jesus. Who is interested in small workloads where everything fits into the cache? Real life workloads are always big and dont fit into the cache. Hence you get cache misses, and it start to thrash. Which is a BAD thing. Which is evidenced that CELL looses performance really fast, down to less than 5% of it's former peak, when it's cache starts to thrash. Maybe POWER6 has equal behavior."
Heh, what does cell has to do with POWER6, they are two radical different designs. And what I said was that you cherry picked the results that fit you. And threw the ones that you didn't away. You didn't bother to paint the whole picture. You only mentioned the stuff that fit your purpose. Or rather that is giving you to much credit, cause you got it from some marketing material where you get all your claims from. Again as you do now. You paint everything black and white. Things are grey in grey, in the real world. And I have maintained the whole time that the T5XXX is an excelent box if you use it for what it is designed for. And I still mean that. You have to do research yourself. Stop echoing Snoracle marketing material.
"When you talk about Mainframes, yes the old customers keep bying - because of vendor lockin. But we talk about CPU performance, they suck big time. If you could use a Nehalem to run native Mainframe code, you would need 14 Nehalem to match 64 of the "uuuuuberfaaast" Mainframe CPUs. So new customers are not likely to buy them. Just look at the wikipedia article on "turboherkules"
You don't get it, there is a big difference when having a z10 running zOS with DB2 in Parallel Sysplex, with CICS and exits written in PL/1 or COBOL perhaps with embedded assembler, it all running on a pair of 32 core server with 95% average utilization.
It is almost impossible for any Power/Sparc/Itanium/x86 box to compete with this. Both with regards to throughput and availability. Try to think about why.
" This is not true. Niagara is growing much faster than SPARC64, something like 30-40% each year. So this is a pure lie. Again."
Yeah, and it's always nice to make predictions based upon a graph that consists of 2 points. Yeaaaahhh... go go.
"Yes, of course you have some T2 servers and some P570 servers. And of course the P570 servers are much faster. Yes. And on MY job, which is in a large investment bank/stock exchange/nuclear plant/pick your fancy, we see that one T2 machine is several time
s faster than P570 on multithreaded workloads. What I am trying to say, I dont believe you. I bet you are the person always writing that he works on a large investment bank/exchange/whatever and they are now migrating from his beloved SPARC to POWER. Just lies."
Oh, so you actually have a power 570 box at work ? What is the serial number then ? What is the output from a 'lsdev -Cc processor', not that we don't believe you...
"I have actually read here in the comments (now, this is actually true that I have read this) that there are 4 solaris machines shipped for every AIX machine. If this is true, then no way people are migrating from POWER to SPARC so much as falsely claimed here."
I think it was this that you refered to was someone that posted this:
IDC Server Tracker WW Q309 - M9000 (Fujitsu & Sun)
2008Q2 2008Q3 2008Q4 2009Q1 2009Q2 2009Q3
183 129 221 159 165 90
IDC Server Tracker WW Q309 - Power 595 (IBM):
2008Q2 2008Q3 2008Q4 2009Q1 2009Q2 2009Q3
149 211 545 246 380 328
But as to number of servers, then yes SUN is shipping more UNIX servers than anybody else. But most of those are entry level servers, and SUN is in free fall with regards to revenue. In Q3 2009 SUN's server revenue from servers running Solaris fell an amazing 39%, according to IDC, in the quater before Q2 that it was 40% and in Q1 it was 27%. You have HP and IBM slaughtering SUN in the markedplace, and it's going to continue. Why ? Cause SUN has cut so deep in R&D that it will take a long time for them to recover. And it's not like Fujitsu is stepping up.
http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/09/11/sun_sparc_roadmap.jpg
Do you really think that a Chip with just more threads now at 128 on a chip, at the same GHz, produced by a company that has never before produced a serious server chip (TSMC) will be enough to stop POWER7 and an enhanced Nehalem?
"I dont see the point in lying? I rely on official verifiable benches, you IBMers FUD and lie and twist everything. We discuss which CPU is fastest, you try to move focus away, to core pricing. Jesus. You always write the SAME thing: "work at a large bank/telecom company/etc which are loving SPARC and now migrating to POWER". No phantasy at all. The same lie all the time."
Ehh.. You don't rely on benchmarks. You haven't quoted one single official benchmark, you have quoted marketing sites, forums where people positive to your case have put their interpertations on the benchmarks. That is not the same thing. Again this might work in your little local backyard newsites or Boards, but not here.
"Why would I be embarrased because Oracle has the TPC-C record right now (via SUN gear)?"
Jup, and badly scaling cluster where they have had to only lease you the software to keep prices down, and only give you websupport. Again if you don't examine what you get when you put down the big bucks, you get cheated.
But I forget you have trouble reading TPC-C disclosure repports. How long do you think it will take before IBM puts out a benchmark using DB2 purescale ? It will blow the Snoracle benchmark out of the sky.
You, really should stop trying to play with the big boys, when you get easily bruised. And damn it takes 2 posts to adres all your SUN marketing FUD.
// Jesper