264 posts • joined 6 Aug 2008
"On the subject of EE, whilst deleting posts is unforgivable wanting customers to private message them with personal details and mobile number seems quite sensible rather than plastering them on a public forum."
Indeed, but complaints about coverage issues aren't exactly "personal", and showing them in public may identify a wider issue than just one user.
Just give me an email address damnit!
While public shouting is all well and good (and quite satisfying) some of us have rather complicated issues to be dealt with and would rather not try and cut our complaints down to 140 characters a time.
I had an issue a year or so ago with Orange taking a month (and two goes) to fix my brand new GS3 which had stopped receiving wifi properly. Having finally got the phone back I then wanted to complain about the service I received. I decided the best way to do it was to write a proper, full length email outlining the issue and my preferred resolution. However all of EE/Orange's customer interaction now has to go through their social media accounts, where of course they have full control.
I the end I sent numerous messages to the one email I could find, the CEO's....
Re: Money saving options
You'd still pay £180 a year even without a voice service. The cost of actually carrying voice is minuscule compared to the supply and maintenance costs. If you want an example look at "no standing charge" electricity tariffs. You still have to pay a standing charge (equivalent to line rental) but its wrapped up in to the cost of the electricity used.
Re: Money saving options
You can easily get a line with no calls package on from other suppliers. However the line rental charge would still be there as its paying for the maintenance of the physical line and kit between your house and the exchange.
Re: Looks like I got my timing bang on....
I waited until my contract and line rental saver were up with BT before moving over. Luckily I'd re-synced my contract and line rental saver end dates (as usually BT calls/broadband packages go for 18 months, but the non refundable line rental saver only goes for 12) by signing up for BT sport (which started a new 12 month contract a month after my line rental saver), therefore both came to an end in July (that was around the 15th).
Yet still BT screwed up by trying to bill me between the 21st of July and the 20th of August (BT bills cover you for the month to come...) at TWICE the monthly rate I was paying before. When I cancelled my direct debit (to avoid BT getting their hands on £50 of my money) they slapped a late payment charge on the account.
Furious Twitter/BT Forum rage finally got me someone with a brain cell to sort it out, and the upshot is that instead of me paying BT £50 for services I could never have possibly used, they're sending me a cheque for £20...
Re: Glad I Jumped...
I'm in a market 1 area and have just left BT Retail. I don't pay BT retail one penny for my phone charges. I pay BT Wholesale (Through my new provider) for the line. BT Retail isn't BT wholesale.
The part of BT that the article refers to is BT Retail. BT Wholesale haven't announced any price increases.
Re: Glad I Jumped...
"You still have to pay BT extra for your landline though. Which sucks. They still basically have a monopoly."
BT Retail (the part of the company that has just raised its prices) doesn't have a monopoly.
BT Wholesale and Openreach do have a monopoloy, but are required by law to serve all communications companies equally well/badly.
Looks like I got my timing bang on....
I've just left BT after two years and have gone over to Plusnet. Yes they're part of the same borg collective but they're a fair bit cheaper
I've stayed in that hotel (pretty much next to the East of England Showground). If your lucky however you can get a room opposite the new houses/flats that have been built. Rather than pay £15 an hour, I simply took advantage of my (then supplier) BT's openzone service and connected via the routers of the houses opposite!
One of my local pubs....
...Has wifi that asks for a name and email address (and other info but I forget what). What I did (for a laugh) was feed totally bogus information in. It seems the wifi service doesn't actually check if the email account is a live one or not...
Therefore, it seems one of the regulars in said pub is Professor Stephen Hawking...
".. what and bring on Fox News ?"
C4 news isn't publicly funded, and they are as far away from Fox News as your likely to get.
Public funding/ownership does not guarantee impartiality, it merely ensures partiality towards the govt of the day.
Re: Politicians are to blame, not the BBC.
Unnecessary organisational and giovernance changes like BBC Board of Governors to BBC Trust, forced upon financial settlements, historical abuse issues (same ballpark as NHS, Prisons, Parliament, Social Services), forced upon new obligations (with huge cuts in money to pay for it) like World Service changes, swathing cuts in staffing, forced staff and relocation changes (BBC TV Centre to Salford Quays, Manchester and Pacific Quay, Glasgow) and much production to Cardiff), whilst selling TV centre with one hand yet building up a new London HQ in Broadcasting House at vast cost.............. are all to blame. Sometimes, you must thing the management's head's must be spinning with so much parallel forced changes. Politicians need to keep their meddling hands out of the BBC - Jowell, Purnell, Burnham, Bradshaw, Hunt, Millar, Javid....."
The fact is the BBC is a "tax" funded operation (even if it is called a "licence") and therefore will come under scrutiny and pressure from the government of the day.
Some of the changes (like DMI) were a shambles, but I don't agree that moving BBC services out of London was one of them. Yes the BBC needs a London presence, but for things like production and studio areas you do not need to be London based. TV Centre is an old, outdated building and refurbishing it would probably have cost even more than moving out.
It was however a lot of fun hearing meeja types complaining that Manchester was pretty much the middle of nowhere. Its a few hours on a train FFS.
Re: Builders don't put up with this shit
I remember stopping at an old style transport cafe near Swansea.
It seems the couple running were from the continent, and therefore they had a proper coffee machine and a price list for Capuccino/Latte/Espresso/Mocha...
...at the bottom there were listed separately "Coffee" and "Tea" (presumably for less continental wagon drivers)
I Am the evil person who....
Fixed my previously off-line rural pub's wifi so that the restaurant and bar areas both now have reasonable wifi coverage. Conversation has taken a nosedive since.
What has to be remembered is that many pubs are very old buildings. Built when buildings were made to last centuries. Those thick stone walls were never designed to allow mobile signals in. Even if your in a modern (read "shite") pub building the chances that the wifi won't be overloaded by 20-30 people streaming video to their devices are slim.
And as for soya latte? What the buggering hell is that? Tea (in a mug or thermos) is the only way to start the day.
Re: > punt the guy by any means
Its an HR cockup, pure and simple. As the tribunal said, there was nothing stopping the BBC from not renewing the bloke's contract. The problem was the higher ups decided they wanted a sacrifice on the altar of "accountability" and hang the cost.
I assume its because they don't want spooks working for the away side (Maclean, Philby, Burgess)...
Re: BT Retail used to be masters at this
I moved from BT to plusnet (who are indeed part of the borg collective that is BT Group). The service is much better and prices are lower (quite a bit where plusnet have an LLU presence).
Unless you truly want/need BT Youview then there's no reason for bothering with BT.
Best double check, but I don't think Sport/Youview/Vision traffic counts towards your usage.
BT Retail used to be masters at this
BT Retail's ploy was to offer a line rental saver (a one-off line rental payment) that ran for 12 months
All their broadband and calls contracts ran for *18* months. Therefore when your line rental save came to an end you had three choices:
1: Pay 6 months line rental monthly via your bill (loosing out on the 10% or so discount), and then leave when the calls/BB package ran out
2: Renew your line rental saver, then move once that had run out (BT wouldn't refund line rental savers if they left)
3: Pay the cancellation charge for the remaining months of your calls/broadband package
Luckily, when BT launced their BT Sport service, you could sign up for free if you agreed to a 12 month contract. I never watched my BT sport subscription, but it did get my line rental and package end dates to line up again, so no cancellation fees for me!
At least it wasn't an air raid this time
Re: Red X
"Fuck your red X. I now ignore them completely until I actually crash in to a hazard"
Re: Seriously folks
A few years ago Radio 4 had a programme about wills, and how they're having to take in to account more and more online services. For example, who gets the stuff in your Ebay account (not to mention paypal)?
The last one was a routing foul-up in their network. Seems someone's let the work experience kid in again.
ISP provided routers are all (with very few exceptions) rubbish. Settings like DNS are locked out so that those with less technical acumen don't feel the need to pratt about with them and stuff up their connections.
Of course, when it comes to times like these then this shortcoming does cause a lot of issues, but expecting ISPs to supply top-class routers for nowt isn't realistic. Anyone who wants a properly manageable router should buy one themselves and ISPs should not put any impediments in place to stop that happening.
Re: I wonder how they got this information?
"Tigers here in the west midlands?!?!"
Depends which side of Kidderminster or Bewdley you live...
Also, its not an "age" thing. Some users are simply not interested in engaging their brain when using an electronic device.
Case in point: SatNav berks.
Re: But these are actually intelligent people ....
The best/worst one I had was with a laptop. I asked the owner "what's wrong with it"?
The answer I got was "your the computer expert, you tell me..."
Teamviewer is a better option, as it doesn't rely on the user setting anything up other than a shortcut.
VPNs are fine when your in control of the kit though.
Re: Wasn't a DNS issue...
BT offer business Infinity packages.
Re: Wasn't a DNS issue...
Agreed, it wasn't simply DNS falling over. I'd swapped my BT homehub router for a new Netgear on friday night (configed to OpenDNS). Spent most of saturday morning trying to get it to work again before I heard the news.
Good job I'm leaving them...
Re: Not surprising...
Yes, S4C does cover a much smaller population, but it does do rural a hell of a lot better on a much smaller budget. Remember BBC news got a right hammering a few years back for not making it clear when what it was reporting didn't apply to Scotland/Wales/NI (Mainly education and health stories).
Re: Not surprising...
You don't get many naturists in the countryside, the lack of patio heaters puts them off
Of course by now the townies are all up in arms about the massive increase in "Urban" foxes (identifiable by a backwards baseball cap and fake american accent). The problem is that townies don't have the common sense to stop shooting each other and start shooting the foxes...
It depends who your AM/MP is . If you have a Conservative or Plaid member they're usually from a rural area themselves and have some idea of what's going on away from Cardiff/London.
The Lib Dems used to be pretty good, until they started parachuting idiots in to seats like Montgomeryshire who were torn to shreds over issues like wind power.
The worst however are Labour. As their powerbase is in urban areas they simply don't care about the countryside or its residents. (See windfarms, fuel prices, land subsidy rules).
This has been going on silently for years. For example, the Countryfile programme, which used to be on sunday mornings, would at least attempt to be balanced between the views of actual rural dwellers and those who read those "South Ruralshire Life" magazines. Now that its gone prime time the focus has swung over markedly to the rambler/naturalist/Guardian reader/holiday cottager.
S4C at least does recognise that its rural viewers do in fact live and work in the countryside, and therefore appreciate programmes that reflect that.
Re: FTTP - see Verizon, JT, etc
My uncle (Ex GPO) said it was between copperweld and aluminium for the worst stuff ever to be used for phone lines. After it had been in place for a while, corrosion would make it so brittle that it would crumble in the junction boxes.
Been there, done that....
I've had countless similar experiences with openreach. Their crowning glory was during an office phone system install.
I'd ordered a phone system from BT (an Avaya IP office), in late June/early July, for fitting before Sept 1st. To cut a long story short BT would only offer an installation date of late september. That was until I said I was cancelling the order and going with a local independent supplier. Suddenly the install date moved from late september to late august, but I told them to stuff it, but to keep the ISDN2 line order in place, scheduled for a mid-august Wednesday.
Fast forward to that Wednesday, and I'm waiting at our new office for the engineer to arrive. When 4pm rolled around and I didn't see a van or an engineer I got rather annoyed. After calling up BT it seems that Openreach hadn't assigned the job to an engineer, and the best they could offer me was to re-schedule for 3 weeks time.
I unsurprisingly hit the roof, asked to speak to a manager, but as it was 4:55 "none were available". I demanded a call back before 10am the next day, threatening to invoice BT for my wasted time, the holiday I would miss sorting this out and look to move our five figure annual spend to another supplier. Surprisingly enough they seemed a bit more attentive after that. I was called at 9:30 the next morning saying an engineer was on his way. 11am I had an openreach engineer on site to hook up the lines, who apparently had been told to get to me "bloody quick".
Another classic is not being able to handle addresses on new installs. Twice I've had new line installs delayed (one by two months) because Openreach are convinced a given address/postcode does not exist, despite there being active lines there.
Openreach need a very hefty kick up the backside. They still act as if they're an internal maintenance division, and the ISPs/Communications Providers are left to take all the flak and take a dive in the OFCOM user satisfaction surveys. If Openreach was listed separately in those surveys I would bet they'd top ANY of the ISPs by a massive margin.
Re: Do they still charge for technical support calls?
My personal approach would be for openreach to become more like the regional electricity suppliers (SP energy networks, Western Power distribution etc).
You'd contact/pay Openreach directly for your Copper/Fibre line back to the exchange , and deal with any faults/upgrades with them directly (i.e. the line rental part of the service), then pay an ISP for internet access/calls or whatever. The line rental cost might rise (to cover Openreach having to invest in callcentres etc.) but at least you'd be able to contact them directly in a fault case.
That's a classic case of the Openreach Merry-go-round. Where openreach has more customers than working lines in a given area (usually rural).
What happens is that if someone reports a faulty line, Openreach will simply swap the faulty line with a neighbour's (working) line. That neighbour then reports a faulty line, and its passed on again...
Re: Do they still charge for technical support calls?
Half the problem is you can't call openreach unless your an ISP/Communications provider. You have to go through your own ISP/CP, who then call Openreach, who then screw up, call the ISP/CP back (if you're lucky) who then call you (only if you're very lucky).
About bloody time
Its about time Openreach were made to offer a better service level for domestic customers. They are by far the worst utility for installation and repair delays. Even business response can be slow due to Openreach's wide reaching organisational incompetence. Their reluctance to fix known, long term faults is legendary.
My only fear is that MBORC (Matters beyond our/openreach's reasonable control) will be invoked far more often to make up the shortfalls.
Re: FTTP - see Verizon, JT, etc
"If they hadn't been such cheapskates after privatisation in the 80's and put so much aluminium rather than copper underground, it wouldn't be in such a crap state either."
The GPO/PO telephones used aluminium and even worse stuff (copper coated steel was probably the worst) when copper prices shot up in the 60s/70s. This was before privatisation.
And as for BT being ready to "fibre up the whole country" in the 80s, that would have killed any competition stone dead. I also doubt they were serious, they had only just started installing system X and system Y digital exchanges in the early 1980s, and were only starting on shifting their backhaul over to fibre.
Amazon, John Lewis and Appliances Online should do the job given enough time. Unfortunately some people still see tham as the "go to" for an overpriced appliance with a pricey extended guarantee
"Parasitic bosses dont - if you turn your phone off you are slacking even on holiday - if there's no signal then your really free."
The problem I'm seeing is that you seem to have your work phone on holiday with you.
Have you seen one recently? Most of the really rural ones are long gone.
It's all a matter of spectrum...
The big benefit of national roaming would be that those on EE/3 could take advantage of Voda/O2's lower frequency spectrum, which carries better over distance (in my experience).
Could you remind people that mobile phones do in fact have an "off" button...
Also, Most churches aren't exactly bristling with connectivity (a few I know of have no mains electricity or water/drainage installs of any kind)
"I don't accept that it costs £14/month (BT's prices) to maintain a bit of copper between you and the exchange/cabinet, my copper wire has been in place for over 30 years, where is the cost for the line? the equipment you talk about is the PSTN voice equipment right?, not the ADSL+ stuff?"
Your line rental pays for the maintenance of that line and the exchange equipment its connected to, along with the poles, cabinets, electricity supplies and so on that line. The ADSL part covers the cost of a DSLAM port, the backhaul back out to the outside world and so on.
If you weren't paying line rental, then your ISP/Comms provider would simply roll up those access and maintenance charges in to your monthly rate. That's what electricity supply companies do with their "no standing charge" tariffs. Your still paying for the cost of getting a line to your house (and maintaining it), but wrapped up in a single monthly payment.
Re: tthe Poole retail jungle
This reminds me of Aberystwyth back in the late 1990s and Early 2000s. Thanks to the vagaries of takeovers, Dixons were directly opposite Currys on the High Street. The only difference was that Currys had fridges and washing machines on display, while Dixons had cameras. In the end they moved the Currys to an out of town retail park, and Dixons were gone not long after.
- Product round-up Six of the best gaming keyboard and mouse combos
- Opinion So, Apple won't sell cheap kit? Prepare the iOS garden wall WRECKING BALL
- LinuxCon 2014 GitHub.io killed the distro star: Why are people so bored with the top Linux makers?
- Opinion IT blokes: would you say that LEWD comment to a man? Then don't say it to a woman
- 6 Obvious Reasons Why Facebook Will Ban This Article (Thank God)