55 posts • joined Wednesday 23rd July 2008 13:25 GMT
is the author of this article trying to live up to be like Richard Stallman?
Richard Stallman and his FSF hold up an admirable ideal, that ALL software should be open source. Nothing wrong with that, but in very few cases does a pure open source model work in business, but rather both open and closed source have their place. But to call this memo a "delusion" is in itself a delusion. Google has given away a lot of great software and given away some important source code to the community (ie Android, Go programming language). Please give Google a break and give them some credit for what theyve done.
Shuttleworth spends $30 million to float in space, but cant 'afford' to hire compitent programmers
Can we stop running hype storys on Ubuntu already? If Shuttleworth was just another hobbiest making a distro in his living room in his spare time, then I could forgive all these glitches. But he has the money to assemble professional talent but instead heads a band of amateur freetards. Maybe if you run a story on Mint Linux you might find a useable distro being a made with only a tiny fraction of Shuttleworths resources.
bares fangs, ha ha ha .....just use Mint if you want a professionaly done Linux distro
I do have huge respect for Shuttleworth and his merry band of freetards for finally making a user friendly distro. But their ability to make a commercial ready distro is nill. Their own company mission statement just parrots Stallman's 'freedoms'. Try Mint Linux or Elive if you want Ubuntu/Debian compatible distros that are not pig slow.
Nokia's Maemo Linux OS is an extremely crippled flavor of Debian. If you want a handheld with a Linux distro that is totally open and will have an open repository, than you have to check out the Pandora http://openpandora.org/
The Pandora uses open hardware so their is no restricted drivers, so you can run any OS and software on this handheld that can compile on an ARM processor. It has a 600mhz processor and 256mb ram, so it can even run lightweight desktop distros like XUbuntu
ok, lets go through this again
Nokia, Palm, and MS have been cramming enterprise apps down the users throat for the past 10 years and giving these mobile OS's the insulting term 'smartphone'. Finally Apple comes a long and finally gives the user what they want which is a vast diversity of useful apps. Nokia, Palm and MS respond by giving users a touch screen.
There is an answer my friends, the Pandora: http://openpandora.org/
uses open hardware so their is no proprietary drivers and so will run about any OS that compiles on an ARM processor.
........so long suckers
if you want mobile Linux...use open mobile LInux
There are two handhelds that people should know about if you want a smartphone or handheld that runs linux:
the OpenMoko Freerunner: www.openmoko.com
and the Pandora: http://openpandora.org/
although the Pandora is not ready yet, it will kick butt on what the Nokia N810 will do
Nokia dropping Symbian??? focusing on Maemo?
Sry for OT comment, but I missed the news on Nokia dropping Symbian, and I dont see anything about it in a Reg search. Can anyone direct me to news on that?
was funny the first time
I dont have a problem of making jokes of war. War is always stupid, no matter how justified the cause, one is always fighting for or against something stupid. But trying to milk another laugh from those who didnt catch this joke the last time is pretty cheap. I think El Reg can dig up more low brow humor elsewhere.
php is good for teaching too
For a first programming language I think php is the best option. It takes syntax features from perl, java and c and blends them in a simple intuitive way. The best part for a beginner is that they see immediate tangible results for their programming efforts instead of command line apps/scripts that do nothing but model a useful program. I wish it was my first language.
you got to try Elive
If you want to try a Debian fork that is smoking fast, doesnt freeze up all the time (like Ubuntu) and not needlessly difficult for the average linux noob, than you you have to try Elive www.elivecd.org
Its really a shame that Shuttleworth who is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, runs a distro coded by slacker/freetard ner'dowells. If you want to experience a Linux distro with commercial quality, you have to try Elive.
Im just a fanboy, not part of the dev team
There is no "best" tool for the job in programming or any other field.
There is a whole new generation learning programming languages like C++ by rote in quick courses in places like junior colleges, and they dont understand the underlying concepts of the language or how it applys to computer architecture. And then these people go around asking "experts" why the language they are learning is the "best tool for the job" hoping they will get an explanation to justify their choice of language. But that is a mistake, no one should ever accept anything as best on face value or even the word of an "expert". The best language is the one that gives you the results you want and balance that with the power and flexibility you want, and all these things dont come free. C++ is a difficult language to use. Even "experts" who think they understand it often rely on all manor of parlor tricks to accomplish even the most minor tasks. Runtime safety for example is given very little value. A language like Java might suffice for enterprise infrustructure apps, but for complex commercial standalone apps only a language like Ada will provide the kind of runtime safety for people smart enough to use it.
****It comes down to this, multi-threading or no, that you can't prove to anyone that a formally correct program written in C is any less reliable that a formally correct program written in ToolDuJour or any other language, and it is no easier in practicality to prove that a program *is* formally correct in another language than it is in C .
If it were, ADA would absolutely rule the universe at the moment, but it doesn't because it's rubbish. C is rubbish too, but responsibility for it's rubbishness lies solely with the programmer.****
If you could prove algorithms (the turing machine proved you cant) then we would have perfect programming languages and no need for debuggers. I dont know where you get off saying Ada is rubbish. The fact that every language in common use besides C/C++ is interpreted (Java, C#, Python, Perl, PHP,etc) means that todays programmers cant handle low level programming. Ada is the only compiled language that is built to be safe by very strong type checking and very insular modularity. But you can just keep using Java....you clod
does anyone really know Jobs?
I would never wish bad health or death on anyone, and I hope the best for Jobs. But I think the public should take an honest look at his legacy, yes he is a brilliant designer and leader in tech innovation, but the other side to that is that he is also the most abusive corporate head that Im aware of. Is exploits of overworking and humiliating his employees are legendary. I dont know how he got away with it as its very common for employees to sue companies for such abuse. Im not trying to say he should suffer for his bad karma either, but now that he is not in control I wish people would take time to step back and reflect on what really has gone on at Apple.
portrait of an open source patent troll
For those of you who dont know the whole story, AT&T made the source code of unix available to use by universities and business before the existence of open source licenses. They later sold the rights to the name unix to Novell, and then Novell sold it to SCO.
The first joke is that SCO is going after Linux which is not based on unix but rather minux which is an OS in a book of operating systems that was never intended to be used but rather teach OS concepts.
The second joke can be found in the last line of the article:
"Last year a US judge declared Novell the owner of Unix properties that SCO had claimed, and heaped further financial woe on the burdened company by ordering SCO to pay Novell $2.5m as part of his finding"
so...SCO has to pay Novell, ha ha ha naaah, dont think SCO will have an easy time being a patent troll with all the open flavors of unix, especially when there are still commercial unix flavors being marketed.
Perl....for the hardcore only!
Its a mistake to call Perl 6.....Perl. Perl 6 its an experiment in language design and I doubt its going to go anywhere, because the old trick of throwing everything into the language but the kitchen sink is not going to accomplish anything at this day and age. Perl was really clever to put dynamic typing, functional programming syntax and regexps and end up with a powerful (for that time) shell scripting language. But languages like Python and Ruby have all that stuff with an easier to read Pascal like syntax. Perl is still the secret weapon of the hardcore admin, in fact sometimes I wonder why Perl hasnt become the default shell in certain flavors of *nix as Perl just puts Bash to shame.
Im not buying the argument that Apple forces their customers to use their hardware to avoid driver problems, lets look at the choices they give:
a) iMac- I dont want my computer inside the monitor casing, I want to be able to choose/replace the monitor that I want.
b) Macbook and Macbook Pro- This is as close as Apple gets to selling something affordable/useful, but still too much money to spend for a laptop with a one button touchpad.
c) Mac mini- absolutely worthless, quite a lot of money for a weakling that you cant even put a graphics card in to soup up, an insult to anyones intelligence, not even a cheap monitor thrown in
d)Mac Pro- dual Xeons?? what the hell am I going to use this for? good for gaming? no, but if you need to run a server or render farm out of your house, youre set to go
There is no excuse for a line of computers like this, its simply trying to be 'different' in order to justify price mark-up. What kind of idiot will tolerate buying overpriced mis-matched hardware they dont need and accept driver compatibility as an excuse for doing so?
@Closed = Bad... Says who?
AC- I think you are missing the point, closed/proprietary is not bad in and of itself. But we are in a situation where we have 3 main choices for home computer OS:
A) a proprietary company that enjoys a overwhelming marketshare, and has tried to use that marketshare to force its customers to buy a new OS that is bloated by cutting off access to the previous OS that people liked.
B)a proprietary comany that forces its customers to buy its hardware due to a very unusual situation where the CEO of this company is an "irreplaceable" talent behind the design of company products and also happens to be an ego-maniac, so normal market driven economics is thrown out the window and the customer is forced into the company's product lock-in at every possible instance, style and status being the motivators behind doing this, which of course attracts a certain kind of customer (what the Brits would refer to as an "upperclass twit").
C)an open sourced OS that gives anyone the freedom to change anything and adapt to anything they want
gee, now which one do I want to choose? hmmm, I know a lot of people think that they feel some sort of responsibility to A and B to be loyal customers, but somehow, C seems like its a good alternative out of the mess A and B have put us in.
now Im not a free software/open source fanatic, and I dont think most people who use Linux or BSD are using it to get free (non-paying) software. But the fact that Linux and BSD are open is a major factor in breaking the monopolistic practices that proprietary software companys A and B are playing.
python speed potential
I wonder how fast it will be possible to make dynamic languages? Neither Sun nor MS has been able to get dynamic language to run on their respective Java and .NET VMs. I think most people who want a fast dynamic language, such as in game scripting, use Lua. But I think their are faster dynamic language than that such as Pike and Squirrel. But if Python and Ruby could run as fast as Java, then that could really expand the use of scripting languages and blur the line between interpreted and compiled language use.
no more bright ideas
If ponyboy sells of the hardware divisions of Sun, then Sun is dead. The time is now ripe to make money in opensource software and operating systems (yes you can sell OSS), people are dissatisfied with MS and Vista and their endless frameworks, Apple has never been a friend to the unwashed masses, but Sun is doing nothing. Now is the time Sun needs leadership, and ponyboy simple opensources everything so that 'all boats will rise' (his words). In the past Sun has had enough bright people working for them so that they always came up with ways to make money, but back then they had bright people in charge. But now they are floating aimlessly in the middle of the OSS sea, and their boat is not rising. Sun will sink, they will get bought out cheap, and that will be the end of Sun.
how about some specs
Ive looked at a lot of sites on the PDP-11 and I have a hard time figuring out what the specs were. The only thing Ive come up with is that it had 64k of RAM memory. What kind of permanent memory did it have? Just tape? Was the memory or OS accessed from a line editor, a teletype or console terminal? I know its hard to calculate processor speed as it had a lot of tiny processors, but what was its approximate speed? Thats really interesting to hear some of you have a working PDP-11 in your possession. And not to start a flame war, but which was better, Unix or VMS?
Id like to remind you that Google has open sourced Anroid, and that there is potential for it to be expanded beyond its current form. I can see a lot of other mobile Linux OS's building in compatibility to Android but still continue to run their own flavor of mobile Linux, openmoko probably will be the first to do this. Google has huge market access by default, there is nothing wrong with them designing an framework that forces software access through their channels, they built Android with their own money, if commercial software companys dont like Google, they can go somewhere else. This is still a huge improvement over Symbian which has tight control on who can develop for that OS.
this is great, what mobile Linux needs!!
The thing that has been holding back Linux for so long is a way for commercial software companys to distribute apps without giving raw binarys and having different package managers deal with it in different ways. Now google is coming a long and finally giving mobile Linux a way to go commercial. Mobile Linux will lead the way at beating the iPhone at a game that the mobile software market should have taken 10 years ago, and Symbian (which is being open sourced also) will be forced to play catch up. Laugh all you want you iPhone zombies, mobile Linux will give a lot more choice which will result in more creativity, more power for less cost.
yeah Im a mobile Linux fanboi, no denying, and this is what I will buy as soon as it gets cellular connectivity: http://openpandora.org/
it comes down to how apps install (or dont install)
The only thing that attracts me to Mac is there installationless apps, and the only thing bad about Ubuntu and most other Linux distros is the hacked way they install software with package managers. If someone ever comes up with a way to run apps on Linux like OSX does, then its bye bye Mac forever
smart way to go
Well Im impressed. Its will be interesting to see if they stick with the Java only app restriction now that its open source. And like Gulfie, I wonder if its possible now to compile the OS to different mobile platforms. The biggest problems with Linux in general has been a lack of software installation standards. I wonder if Android addresses that in a way that goes beyond forcing people to use Java. Ive heard a large part of Nokia's meamo mobile Linux OS is open(I think its based on Debian), it will be interesting to see if they go all the way with open source.
please bring it here to Mexico
Well it might be a cheap looking, but it sure beats all the touch screen crap that everyone else is using. Id really like to see a company like this go international. I live in Mexico, and airtime rates are so expensive as to make date access impossible (40cents USD per minute) which is why Carlos Slim the owner of Telmex is the richest man in the world. Id really welcome this here in Mexico.
I dont get how it works
In the picture you see above it being used as a touchscreen with the keyboard completely hidden as though its a slideout keyboard, but below you see the keyboard on the side like a clamshell. So Im guessing the keyboard swivels all the way around to the back...which is a good idea, as I think that is what has prevented people from buying clamshell phones that open to the side for a querty keyboard. If they did the same thing to the N810 I would love it, I would have to buy an 810 with a clamshell form factor to protect the screen. That is something that would blow away the iPhone and all the mobile game consoles like the PSP and DS in one swoop.
Neil Hoskins, you are way out of touch
Neil Hoskins- read James Anderson's post. The americans arent taking credit for something thats already been done, they are finally giving the customer want they fully want instead of hyping a very incomplete and botched up mobile platform. Apple started it all by showing that a handheld can do almost anything a PC can do. Nokia has never done anything except dish out crap enterprise apps and completely ignore the common user who wants to use their phone for things like web surfing and live messaging. I'll bet you anything that Nokia wont even try to fix Symbian and will drop on the mobile Linux bandwagon with their maemo.org offering.
Satan phone indeed
Google is making all the same mistakes as Apple, have they not noticed that everyone wants to hack their iPhones to unlock it? Google is poised to be in a position as a huge content provider for mobile apps, and then take the Apple turn there also, you can only use THEIR version of Java to write apps. But you know who is going to steal the show on this one? Just check this site for the answer on who holds the keys for freedom: www.openmoko.com
Ha! Thanks for the FUD Mr. Panagrossi
What a joke that Nokia would accuse mobile Linux of fragmentation of application portability. Thats been the model for all mobile hardware makers is to make apps proprietary and cut off the customer from using anything but their platform. Now that mobile Linux is coming out and knocking out all these barriers, Nokia has no choice but to spew out FUD over the mobile Linux platform (which Nokia uses by the way on their potent N810 line). If the mobile hardware makers had played it right from the beginning they would be a giant pool of Symbian software from which they all could profit together. Now that profit is going to be spread out among the masses, unlike the freetards that are stifling desktop Linux, I think that mobile Linux apps will be an area of profit for commercial software companys. Check out www.openmoko.com to see how well mobile Linux runs on a 400mhz Freerunner cellphone. There is also #openmoko a fairly active IRC channel on Freenode.
screw you Nokia, youve been dishing out half-ass hardware and hyping crap apps for too many years, youre getting whats coming to you
you cant hack a true hacker
Wouldnt be surprised if there was a company in Redmond Wa is spreading around money for research into "Linux security". And thats the beauty of open source licensing is that you can make a closed source OS that is100% compatible with Linux without worry of lawsuits as no one can hold ownership over someone else on code based on open licensing. And I predict that after a while such closed source Linux compatible OS's will start sprouting up and attracting customers. I actually hope hackers do start targeting *nix OS's because *nix was built buy true hackers who will have a field day making their OS's a moving target way out of range of a philipine hackers "I love you" virus.
GNL (GNU's not Linux)
The whole problem are the open source tards who go around trying to get everyone to permanently attach open source with Linux. Linux is NOT just a kernal wrapped inside a "GNU operating system". Linux does not have to be compiled by GNU compilers, nor does it have to use GNU utilitys which are just copys of the the original UNIX utilitys that were designed as part of the UNIX OS. The Richard Stalhlman sock puppets are scaring away all the commericial software companys who think that they will be forced to open source their code (confused with free speech) and give it away for free (confused with free beer). You can make money off Linux, people are not going to leave commerical software wholesale and use the free stuff in open source. Their is money to be made doing commercial Linux, until then, have fun using distros that were coded (and documented) by college kids in their moms basement.
GNL (GNU's not Linux)
Linux is NOT tied to open source!! The fact that the kernel has an open source license does not prevent the rest of the entire Linux experience from being entirely commercial. The Richard Stahlman sock puppets who go around trying to get everyone to refer to Linux as GNU/Linux are liars. Linux does not have to be compiled from GNU compilers nor does it have to use GNU utilitys(which are just open source copys of UNIX utilitys). The tards who go around saying "we built Linux and only the kernel was missing" is a blatent lie, nothing the GNU foundation has done is done is directly tied to LInux. Im not against open source, Im a fan of it, but it is just an option. Too many commercial software companys are scared away from Linux because they think that they are forced to give away their software for free and open source it. The Stahlman sock puppets further confuse the issue by spouting their "free speech, not free beer" line. The bottom line is youre not forced to release your software as open source (confused with free speech) on Linux, and you can sell software (confused with free beer) on Linux rather than just recieve maitenaince fees.
why can no one lead Linux into enterprise market?
Shuttleworth is a little too humble/timid for his own good. If he were to go to a billionaires luncheon and announce he needed investors to make a serious commericial version of Linux, not just another server distro mind you, but a distro for handleing an the entire needs of enterprise computing, well those billionaires would be falling all over themselves to put big $$$ checks in his hand. But no, Shuttleworth is at the mercy of all the Richard Stalhlman sock puppets for his resources. Balmer must be leaning back and chuckling at all the clowns we have trying to lead Linux.
I knew it
For 10 years the technology has been existent to make a useful handheld for students, and no one has done it. Make a handheld computer using a b&w screen (truely black and white, not black on dark grey like Palm, Handspring, etc has always pushed on everyone) , with the almost nil power use of the b&w screen it will be able to stay on for a month. Make it a mini-laptop form factor, something easy to type stuff out in and throw in the backback. No frills, just the ability to use popular text formats, students cellphones can already handle the mp3's, videos, games and other junk not necessary for this device. I'll bet they will sell this dirt cheap, say $100 or less and that it will sell like hotcakes. After 10 years of waiting, finally a useful PDA is going to be made. I'll bet this will also sell well in third world nations for people with no telephone for a cheap communication device.
finally someone gets mobile linux right
Clicking on the Openmoko link I see that on Openmokos webpage that this Debian version is already available to install on the Freerunner phone. Im going to look into getting one of these. Now this is something that has the potential to blow away the iPhone and flush down all this Android nonsense.
and where is nokia?
I think the whole android thing is stupid, you can only make apps in their version of Java. The whole idea of Java is being multiplatform, having your app available on any mobile platform. If there going to force people to use their own language they should use a speedy dynamic language like Pike. Nokia has been sitting on the potential to kill the iPhone with phones like the E90 and N810. Theyve just bought up Symbian and made it open source and are also using mobile Linux, they should be doing more to promote an open dev enviornment and access to 3rd party apps. Why is it only Jobs is able to get anything done with smartphones?
I believe the reason that java has problems running on all platforms is not that it wont compile, but that the VM is unable to detect what kind of GUI toolkit to use as they always seem to be changing on most all platforms.
this is what olpc could be
The Kindle/ebook is really what the One Laptop Per Child program should be using. The idea of giving a fully functional laptop to every child in the African bush is a cruel joke as they dont have electricity and would be cranking like mad to keep it running, they dont have an educational system to show them how to use it. Something like the Kindle with a screen that uses almost no power would be a perfect communicator to give to adults to correspond with people at large distances. They could set up infrared reader posts in the bush for people to send/receive messages to each other. I would be a very practical thing that would improve peoples lives. Literacy would skyrocket with the use of these. The one laptop per child should only be used in developing countrys like China, India and Latin America to integrate into existing educational systems.
bring on the cheap clones!
I think there is something to the Kindle concept, and if they make cheaper clones of it, I'll be interested. First advantage is that the white/greyscale screen has very low power usage and I heard that the kindle can stay on for a week as it doesnt need backlighting. I know that Amazon hired experts and designed the Kindle in-house, so I dont know how much of this screen technology they own. The QWERTY keyboard input also opens a lot of possiblitys for creating your own text documents. I would be satisfied with just infrared connectivity to my PC and that would bring the cost of such a device way way down. Also a clamshell form factor would make such a device much more convenient to carry.
its a case of management out of touch with R&D
Its a concept that could work, make things modular, give every possible choice to the gadget freak. And theyre already started out in reverse with screen data entry interface which is what so many dont like about the iPhone. Why are so many cellphone makers out of touch with what the user wants? Smartphone technology has been laying dormant for so many years just because the handset companys are too dense to package together all the advanced hardware and software features.
---"Um last I checked Portugal was not exactly a 3rd world poverty stricken country"---
Um, youre right its not....and so? Your point is that low cost laptops should not be used in education for developing countries but only in poverty stricken third world countries?
For me, countries fall into 3 basic classes:
1)Fully industrialized nations like the US, France, Japan, etc
2)Developing nations like China, India, Mexico, etc
3)Poor third world nations like most countries in Africa, etc
These low cost laptops will be most effective in developing nations by integrating them into the educational system. I think they should be distributed in communities within poor third world nations, but one for every child will be of little use unless there is an educational program to go along with it.
The idea of low cost laptops goes way beyond third world outreach, it will become a part of the worlds educational system. If Negroponte cant except that, thats too bad.
how dare you help children without going through OLPC first
The whole OLPC program has been going nowhere for the past five years. So now one country is finally tired of waiting and is implementing their own low cost laptops for education and OLPC is crying foul. I'll admit Im not knowledgeable on the details of this, but it just strikes me as ridiculous. If someone can counter my claim that is ridiculous and tell me how OLPC is being wronged, Id like to hear it.
@Tom ....the worlds problems are not caused by lack of food, but by ignorance
---"You want to save the children? how about feeding them. Oh look another poor developing world kid starved to death.. but heshe did have a nice laptop."---
The problem is that the majority of the worlds population are subsistance farmers and the land can no longer support that kind of destructive low yield farming. It is possible for industrialized nations to go in to all of the third world nations and set up commercial farming operations that would provide an over abundance of food, and that actually might not be a bad idea. But I dont see any third world nations calling for such aid, because they want to be self sufficient. That is something you dont understand unless you know what it is like to be poor. The answer to all the worlds problems is EDUCATION. I do agree with you that laptops are not a priority in extremely poor third world nations but rather developing nations, they should be integrated into educational system and not merely just given to a child/family.
There is something to the old saying "give a person a fish, they eat for a day. teach them to fish, they will eat for a lifetime"
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