377 posts • joined 21 Jul 2008
No. MPLS is a method of managing traffic priority across a managed network. It works well where you can make a reasonable prediction about the expected volumes of different traffic types in a private or virtually private network and dimension network elements accordingly. It couldn't work in a public network because users have a strong incentive to game the system by marking all packets as being of the highest priority. You end up back at square one.
My bold prediction is that we will see some return to circuit switching to run alongside packet switching in our public networks. That would most likely take the form of an overlay network and traffic would be split out at edge routers. For some types of traffic, for some usage and routing scenarios, packet switching is awfully inefficient and difficult. At some point it becomes easier to just circuit switch that traffic than it does to try and engineer an illusion of circuit switching over a packet switched network.
Re: EE / Orange lost me as a customer after 12 + years
"They've left me no choice."
Haven't you just described your choice? Better service at a higher price or poorer service at a lower price.
"but as long as it's all or nothing who'd sign up for it?"
It's not - or it's not with BT. You get to tick "yes" or "no" to each of the listed categories.
Re: Makes sense to me
"You don't know every subject in the world to an equivalent level to that, why are computers special? Because you already know them and think everyone else should too?"
I agree. Why buy medicines from a pharmacy - that's just giving control to an elite. Everyone should learn chemistry well enough to make their own common medicines at home. Etc...
Re: Monopoly = Artificial Scarcity
"Competition works, monopoly doesn't. Let's do this."
Rarely in the last mile though.
Your proposals would take away all the profitable revenue from those providers. No new entrant is going to want to come in and invest a fortune to compete with the incumbent when you've ensured that there's no money to be made. Two providers in a market that used to have one results in half the customers for each mile of cable laid - making the economics even worse. That's why we don't have multiple last mile electricity or gas or water or sewage networks - it would just make the cost of those networks higher, not lower.
I think you're really arguing for a regulated monopoly.
Re: HERE we go again...
Navteq kit is used widely, not just in phones. Many car manufacter's OEM satnav kit is Navteq based.
Re: Are electric cars really usefull?
"Bottom line: This technology hasn't really been thought out thoroughly."
Bottom line: Thorough answers to all these questions exist, you've either incapable or have chosen not to find them for yourself. Your not thinking something through properly does not mean that other people haven't.
You, er, know what the word 'probably' actually means right?
Re: Nice that they're thinking of us, but ...
"Actually, it would be nice if they simply took a lesson from history and declared internet access services to be a public utility! Under those rules, similar to electric and telephone and such, if a private corporation wishes to make money serving an area, they are obligated to offer service to everyone in that area "
Guess what would happen if you did that. Almost certainly the opposite of what you intend.
Re: Industry not thinking things through - whatever next?
Your figures presume zero capacity left in the batteries of cars that use the facility.
1,000 cars a day seems optimistic for the early days of this technology. It might be a good number if few petrol stations serve electric cars, it might be way too high if facilities are more widespread.
I don't generally wait for my car to be empty of fuel before filling up. It seems reasonable that the same would be the case for both battery swappers and battery rechargers.
Wow. That is crazy stupid fast"
It would be - but this is 400Gb. Units are important.
"Too bad my avg home speed is still between 1-7MB (depending on the moon cycles and coin flips and horse races)."
You could have 400Gbps to your home today via DWDM. You might not be too happy about the bill though.
Re: Way ahead of the access layer
Data traffic is more than just the sum of consumer broadband connections. Thing about the amount of data that will be flying around as the result of Big Data and Internet of Things. IBM are delightedly telling people at the moment that 90% of all the data ever created was created in the last two years - and that data wants to go places.
Re: Entire article fails to mention the other factor...
"It's kinda an important detail. Right?"
Yes, but in a different context. This kit is capable of generating a datastream at a very high rate but it's not a transmission device. The transceiver of this device would be connected to some kind of transmission kit to leave the building. This bitrate is easily handled today by DWDM kit - mind-boggling data rates over fibre is unexceptional in telco core kit. In terms of distance - how long is a piece of fibre?
If what you're asking about this as an access line technology - out to an end user site - no. You could put the same telco DWDM kit in someone's house but they wouldn't like the bill.
Re: @'s water music
"Have you seen how stupid people are? We let them drive.
We also let people design hardware and write software that will be used to control autonomous vehicles. Could you safely say that out of all the code required someone won't introduce a few bugs here and there?"
Probably not the same people in all likelihood. I don't think safety critical programming jobs are handed out randomly to people and the testing regime is likely strenuous.
Do you every fly in a commercial airliner, or is your disdain for programmers reserved only for those involved with cars?
Re: I'm against it at this time. here's why...
"Out of interest, if a gearbox failure (or other mechanical issue unrelated to driver decisions) happened on a vehicle causing loss of control and subsequent road traffic incident, who is currently considered liable? Both for a vehicle in-warranty with a full service history, and for a vehicle out of warranty being self-serviced?"
It's always the insurer of the vehicle that caused the incident.
That insurer is then free to attempt to reclaim its loss if it feels that someone else is culpable. That could be the manufacturer but it's unlikely to be the owner if the car has a valid MOT and they didn't knowingly drive the vehicle on the road with a fault. If the car was road legal at the time of the accident, the owner isn't liable for mechanical failure, even if they have never had the car serviced.
Re: Driverless car
">The Docklands Light Railway?
Is it the Victoria line that has drivers only because computers can't strike?"
No. The DLR was built to allow evacuation by foot on footpaths. There's always a TFL employee on board, just not driving.
The model with the underground is that the driver is expected to be able to deal with most technical problems - usually by isolating faulty equipment. If they can't they're there to guide people off a train for a reasonably tricky walk down a tunnel with no footpath.
The models are different.
Re: Solving telemarketers
"OFCOM need to add a rule which says that calls with UK CLI must originate in the UK."
And with that single step you break mobile roaming.
Re: Poorly researched reporting
"That means relatively few daytime chargers."
So battery swap during the day and charge them at night.
Re: Superchargers Free!
"For everyone in the UK to change to an electric car within one year, we would need to build more lithium ion batteries than have ever been made since they were invented."
So what? If we all switched to space hoppers we'd need to build more space hoppers than have ever been made since they were invented.
Your maths is kind of wonky because increased demand shifts the economics of accessing the resources required to make Li-Ion batteries. It's bizarre to do some sums on a completely different transportation model than exists today and then presume that there wouldn't be a similar shift in production of the raw materials.
Re: Battery swapping
"That's way beyond charging with some 'spare" energy from renewables, you're looking at major grid infrastructure."
Well, it doesn't seem intractable. Just charge overnight when demand is low. The gap between daytime peak usage and nighttime low usage in any given conurbation is plenty enough to charge some batteries. This probably isn't the right site on which to proclaim a technical challenge as being somehow beyond the wit of man to address.
"5. What would the planning folks say about a warehouse with 100+ full Tesla-style Li-Ion batteries stored? I doubt the local fire brigade would be keen to have it on their patch"
Let's hope no-one tells them about petrol stations.
Re: Battery swapping
"2. You've just bought a shiny new electric BMW. After you've driven it a couple of hundred miles, how happy will you be for the battery (~50% of the value of the car) to be swapped for one from a 10-year-old rust-bucket Toyota?"
Why would you care? You're buying the energy but leasing the container. If the battery doesn't perform properly, you take it back, get a refund and swap the battery. Forget about battery ownership - they're owned by the manufacturer.
You get the benefit of forced concentration too. Where there's a platform in decline you might have four boxes supporting a product, each capable of handling 1000 connections but now with just 100 or so on each box. If you're forced to replace those boxes you'll put them on a single, smaller box. If there's no fire or other disaster, why would you spend any Capex on a platform in decline when what is there works just fine?
Re: Idiot misses the point... on purpose?
"Apparently, the reason most Apple users run the latest iOS version has nothing to do with how easily Apple makes new versions available, it has to do with the facts that most of them will slavishly upgrade their hardware every time Apple brings out a new version."
You're rather ignoring the fact that those 'slavish upgraders' tend to sell their old devices and the new owners put the latest OS on. Or - are you suggesting that they just bin their old devices?
Re: It is an outright lie.
"There is no way that carbon dioxide is causing global warming. It is a measly 0.035% of our atmosphere. There simply is no way it can have any effect at all on global temperature at that concentration."
I look forward to reading your published, peer-reviewed paper on the subject.
Re: So how did EE manage to launch 4G?
Why the thumbs down? How can the addition of a user to a network create anything other than a linear increase in bandwidth requirement?
It could only be exponential if each subsequent user requires more bandwidth than the previous one, which is plainly nonsensical.How many users would you need to add before the next user requires more bandwidth than has ever existed in the world, ever, just for themselves?
Re: So how did EE manage to launch 4G?
"the demand for data backhaul will increase exponentially with each new user added to the network"
Erm, no. A user can only use bandwidth in one place at a time.
Re: I don't want one
You're already being driven by a computer if your car is in any way modern. Accelerator response, steering assistance, braking response and ESP are all controlled by computers, programmed by "some unknown programmer".
Do you ever fly? If so, I have some news for you...
"If the guys in the video were in their 40's and 50's and were all ex transport industry (rail, flight avionics etc) then okay, you'd know that those guys were well versed in their subject and had very probably followed a certifiable design process."
You don't think Google might have the money and means to employ appropriate experts? The amount of time and money they've spent on this leads me to believe that they probably did use the brightest and best people with the right skills and experience. I'd imagine the US government was quite keen on that being the case too before letting them loose on the streets.
Off the top of my head;
-Nearly all accidents are caused by human error.
-We live in an ageing society and old people still need to get around.
-Automatic driving makes more efficient use of energy.
I don't think Google say anywhere in the video that owning one will be compulsory.
Re: So what happens...
"...when an automatic software update bricks them all at once?"
Crikey, what an intractable problem. If only someone, somewhere had thought of a way to avoid such things.
Re: Who is liable
"When these things start hitting the streets I predict insurers will cover their arses by wanting to charge sky-high premiums"
They'll set their premiums based on a statistical analysis of the risk. If they crash less frequently than cars with human drivers, the premiums will be lower. It would be in the interest of insurance companies to steer people towards automation if it lowers accident rates.
Re: Bar Transport
" the person who think doing 34mph in a 60mph zone is safer and more sensible, without considering drivers actually using the road responsibly arriving behind them from a corner only to find the equivalent of a jogger in the way."
You know that there might legitimately well be a jogger there? Or a horse, a cyclist, a deer or a tractor? Hell, I've come round a corner late at night on a country road to find a broken down traction engine in the road lit only with an oil lamp.
Your attitude is more dangerous than someone travelling at 34MPH.
You must be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear. That's the most basic road safety rule of them all, pretty much.
"It will be interesting to see how the engineering and costs balance out. My gut says fuel cells but I wouldn't be suprised by batteries."
You're forgetting the model where batteries get exchanged at 'petrol' stations. In that model, refuelling is quicker than filling a conventional car. The batteries are charged overnight on cheap electricity and you just buy the energy, leasing the container in the same way as Calor's model works.
"The only way they can guarantee their own service is by taking bandwidth away from others."
No. They build a separate, private network that goes directly from their server to an appropriate point at the disant end. They're not taking bandwidth from others, they're bypassing the network those others are using.
Re: Like a motorway, perhaps?
No. Apple have built their own private and separate motorway that runs alongside the public one.
Re: "You keep using that word"
"Does the power company talk about limiting customers to 120 or 240 Volts per month?"
No, but they might increase your bill if you exceed an agreed KWh envelope.
Amps and volts are instantaneous measurements, but they can be used to determine the amount of the resource that have been used.
Re: No, it really isn't.
"The only limit to the pipes is how many bytes you can cram down them per second. There is no limit to the number of bytes total. Therefore, pay-as-you-go is a monumentally stupid idea."
Er, what? Your ISP has to buy kit and bandwidth and the more the network is utilised, the greater the spend required on those things. A greater proportion of that spend is incurred by serving high usage customers than low usage customers.
"Paying per unit of an infinite resource. Really?"
It's not infinite, is it? The resource is limited to the amount of bandwidth the ISP has the capacity to handle. Would you make a similar argument that RAM for your computer should be free because there's a theoretically infinite amount of bits in the world?
"I've yet to feed the output of this thing through an oscilloscope to test DAC accuracy"
...because such a thing is impossible.
It would be like measuring the temperature of your poo to see how effective your teeth are. It rather ignores the other components in the system and, importantly, the inputs to the system.
Re: Scale independence
Surprisingly not. It's a pretty standard test applied where fraud might be an issue - business expenses, bank transactions etc...
Have a look at your bank statement for last month. Check out how many numbers start with '1' compared to all the others.
"Fascinating, but I would still have expected 9 to have a higher incidence than 8 if the numbers are about money as ,e.g., retailers price products at 9.99 rather than 10.00"
It doesn't actually work that way. Lots of products are priced at 9.99, but not as many as cost £8.xx and there aren't as many of those as things that cost £7.xx and so on.
Re: Do you like Facebook, Netflix, or Google?
"Do you like Facebook, Netflix, or Google? Did you like them 15 years ago? No, because they didn't exist in their present form then, they are only here because the free nature of the Internet allowed them to experiment"
No, they're here because of billions and billions of dollars of investment. If promising startups can raise funds for salaries and buildings and servers and kit, why can't they raise them for CDNs too?
You also presume that all future startups require significant amounts of traffic. That probably isn't true. Video requires lots of bandwidth. Voice requires less, but more reliable bandwidth. Other services require tiny amounts of infrequent bandwidth without any particular delivery dependency.
"If you can tell me why a parcel company can charge for a "fast lane" depending on parcel content or why a telephone company can charge extra for a call depending on subject matter then I can understand what kind of argument your presenting."
They kind of do. Delivery of those packets is time critical. If they're late, they may as well not turn up t all. Guaranteed delivery of 'packets' because of their content absolutely exists - chilled distribution. Perishable food items require a specific delivery mechanism, one that costs more than standard packet delivery, precisely because of the content.
There's a wider point too - those 'chilled' packets tend to be delivered via a separate, private network, run by experts in that field. That's exactly what is going on now with CDNs.
I don't think they are the sole networking supplier, they're just the sole supplier for this project.
On a wider point though, this stuff is hard to make any kind of return on. If you introduce competition, you reduce the number of customers you hook in per mile of cable laid. That usually destroys the business case and you end up with no network being provided or the 'other' provider becoming the monopoly.
Worst case is new supplier 'B' hoovering up all the city customers who are cheap to serve. Old supplier 'A' was using those cheap customers to subsidise the expensive rural ones. With that subsidy gone, prices rise which means even more city customers move to supplier 'B'. Supplier 'A' is left with only expensive to serve rural customers who have to pay ever increasing prices.
Your two options, essentially, are to put prices up so that a competitive market can exist, or create a regulated monopoly.
Re: Some telcos won't let you disable voicemail
"Telcos get paid for terminating calls - and voicemail counts as termination. If you're a minnow there's a strong incentive to keep the termination rates high (and some wnd up being bullied into high termination percentages by the incumbents or face penalties)"
But, but, but... They don't get paid for terminating calls generated on their own network by their own subscribers and carried across their own network.
Re: How do those conversations with the mobile network go?
You misread it. The networks are telling you to change the account settings to require a PIN when you call in from your own phone. That appears to be off by default.
Re: Kafkaesque nonsense from Three and EE
No, you're misunderstanding. It's possible to set up the account so that a PIN is required in every case, even from your own phone. That's what they're advising.
No, it's not at all like that.
The same device or address (tel no in this case) can legitimately exist inside and outside your own network at different times and number portability means that any address could belong to you or could belong to another network.
There are techniques that can be employed - but simple, static address filtering isn't one.
Round Trip Delay on calls between two satellite devices renders them barely usable. Try conferencing three or more people together and you may as well give up.
And I had a Computing badge in 1984. It was 'proper' too - I had to write a program on my Oric-1 that allowed the entry of scores for a football league, assigned the appropriate points based on the scores and then sort and display the league table.
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