86 posts • joined 13 May 2008
Where does one start with pda's, It has to be " what do you want to do with it?"
My needs, as Ive written here on the Reg, are to replicate what I do, in a simpler form on my pc.
To whit, as a business user, write emails and texts, apart from using it as a mobile phone.
Those of us who actually create documents letters, quotes order confirmations etc invariably use today, a pc, a white screen and black type to do so. This follows the age old way of reading , when all we has was the printed word in books.
So many hand set pda makers tried to follow this principle and some made some superb examples within the technical limitations of the hardware available at the time.
However, as we all know big business became dominated by bean counters, at the expense of the engineers, and the rot set in.
This is best described as form following fashion at the expense of function.
We all know the big makers , Samsung, Apple etc could make anything they want, including pda's and rugged handsets with big batteries, bright screens clear speakers good signal strength etc etc.
But they dont and wont, because they have gone fo fashion and profit at the expense of function.
Even M/soft with all their millions and their big business software products havnt asked these customers , "what would you like to see as a hand set?"
Its going ot be small maker who will buck this fashion trend and hopefully capture this business market for long enough to get a reputation , before the big makers swamp him.
As a an aside, ive been collecting pda's and have most of the ones meentioned in previous posts.
theres one I found recently, beautifully made , the right size, keyboard, form factor, .
It is made by Seiko as an oxford dictonary, called the ER 9000. Look it up,
all it would need are modern handset innards, a colour screen , a thicker back moulding with a proper say, 3000marh battery and it would be there. Id buy it.
But then, im an engineer and put function before fashion.
I cant be the odd one out?
Re: Not another smart phone?
I believe you.
I used to deal in Thinkpads, lovely kit. reliable superbly built easy to fix.
never had a problem.
IBM sold out to Lenovo , for the reasons you described.
now use a Dell D800.
Now there is a saving grace here in Dorset, The other thing I do is make stuff.
to my specs and design, controlling the whole operation to my terms of reference.
It works profitablly much sought after and beats the bigboys at there own game.
Tthe Opticon H21 1D by the way is good for me that is.
thanks for your insightful reply,
Re: Forget Touch Think Needs - Nothing SMART About Lack of Usability
Well id never have thought id get such a supportive response. Thanks so much lads..
now someone has mentioned data on the move. I spoke as a farmer, its on the move thats the problem. As Ive said thats too dangerous. However all the other folk who could use such a h/set might.
thats the s/ware bit. If its there ~I dont to need to use it just like the bar code scanner on the opticon.
Till the min of ag and fish want all cattle ear tags to have a bar code.
Then easy to read and send back to the base station via the GPRS datalink.
Its because its A universal device you use what ever you need.
Interestingly, lets look at the Samsung galaxy note 3 . For the market its aimed at, then the foot fits the shoe exactly.
also I dont run a sports car to go around the fields checking the sheep. i use a quad , or pulling a trailer a Land rover.
When I take the missus out for a break for a meal , we go in her Suzuki vitara. comfortabe, 4 w drive,( were up a 2 mile muddy track)_ It has to be horses for courses.
So IS a million customers a minority market? I dont think so.
A final thought, a good signal in a rural area? youd be lucky!!
Re: Not another smart phone?
Hi Nick, THANKS for your support.
Yes im keen to get it right like you, and am prepared to take it further. OK, farming is just one of the interests I have. I also, yes it might seem odd,. but do engineering consultancy.
always solving problems for co's. They ask, I deliver.
And Id be happy to do a design contract for anyone to meet our specific needs.
All the components are there, except they have not been put together in one h/ set.
Form has to follow function. Not the other way round.
Its nor just for farmers, I could list all the types of workers who come in this category.
Ive also shown friends what Ive found, and asked, Why are you using your old candy bar nokia? because they say, I CANT get on with these new fangled glass screen h/sets. They just dont work for me.
So the matket is there for a modern hardware set to meet older 's user experiences.
Not the geriatric sets like Doro,
It has tobe that theres more profit in just a screen , pcb and software than all the intricacies of harware flip fones with proper button keyboards.
They are pushing profits before useability.
Ted. We dont give up!!.
Not another smart phone?
When, oh when are the hand set makers going to ask EVERY sector of the market what we want and WILL pay for in a hand set? Because there are millions of us who have a need thats NOT met.
WE are actually WORKERS, who do stuff, and dont spend all day in a heated office in front of a computer with spreadsheets etc or urban types in cities. who want to know where the next coffee shop is.
Let me give you my example, Im a FARMER!! for christs sake, Im out ploughing a 50 acre fields , the last fucking thing I want is data on the move or tweets or that kind of crap. If the missus wants me its 3 rings then off then another and I know its her and will stop and take the call.
Or Bill the fertiliser rep, with a special offer , He knows if he calls when im checking the stock in the silage feed yard ill go else where.
Hell leave a text which ill check when Im finished . We compartmentalise our work.
NO calls when doing stuff, its too bloody dangerous.
We check1st thing in the morning midd day, then when were home with wellies and overalls off ,by the Rayburn with a nice cuppa and the dog and kids etc.
Then before tea, with all the family, half an hour in the office, infront of the computer dealing with all the emails letters orders etc.
It works and thats is the only way it does.
Now to the handset itself.
Ive gone on for a couple of yrs now here on the Reg and to most off the handset makers.
We can afford to pay for the right tool, we do it ALL the bloody time.
We need a:-
Solid flip type handset it its closed over the screen and the keyboard. 100 mm by 75 is ideal.
We use a keyboard on the PC? with ease, Hunt and pick of course , but fast enough .
So why cant we have a keyboard JUST the same but a bit smaller? the Psion 5, beautifully made, right size , but isnt a phone!! And a poor screen? and battey life. And too fragile
As to battery, we dont, and whont care if it 1 in thick when closed, weve pockets big enough!! A minimum of 4000mahr .and weighing say half a pound?
No problem, after al the stillsons in the pocket with the phone is 4 lbs!. Good feeling too!.
So it has to have a VERY loud ring so if im in low ratio pulling a silage trailer up hill I can hear the bloody thing.
Then a proper speaker by my ear. not on the back , stupid bloody place!!.
Then water proof , drop a smart phone in the shitty yard and its not fit for anything else. It wouldnt last a day.
So theres are rugged handsets. JCB, too bloody small to use with hands like shovels.
And the CAT range and others.
Just no bloody good at all.
We pay £100,000.00 for some farm kit so can afford up to say 6,700 quid for a PROPER tool in a handset.
AND no one makes what Ill pay for. SO, the money stays in my pocket till someone does.
The nearest handset that was good in its form factor in its time the Nokia communicator. decent screen decent keybpoard proper speaker clam shell design, and all nokia did was make it smaller all the time.
It replicated what we did in front of our pc's. A great hand set. Still available of course s.hand but could be vastly improved if someone took the trouble.
So what do i use inthe interim? Well, believe it or not I was at a car boot nosing around and there was a handset, built like a small brick.
Name Opticon, never heard of it. Go to GSM arena no write ups.What? why the hell not ?
Google for Opticon H21 1D. and there it is. An industrial bar code reader, BUT i dont need that. what else did it do, everything with the numerical keyboard. where all most there.
Waterproof, dropable 3000mahr batt loud speaker , good clear screen. lets say a bit queer os win mobile 6.5 but useable..Good brand new on Ebay around £270.00. And a great signal in a poor signal area.
Ive used it now for a month . and very pleased with it. So whay isnt it shouted from the roof tops?
Dont ask me Im a farmer!!.
I showed it my BT engineer. Hes been given a I phone it stays in the glove compartment. He uses can old nokia that he can drop in the wet dry out and use again. Hed love an Opticon.
It really doenst make any sense to me.
Stupid consumer emperor's new clothes is all that the carriers offer.
all unsuited to our needs. to hell with them.
Ted. In sunny Dorset.
It happens here in the UK as well. Out of interest, when the National trust were coming up to their centenery, some yrs ago , I got in touch to quote to produce for them a range of products, based on my successful formula of production marketing and sales. Submitted detailed plans drawings and financial details.
Heard nothing for a few months, till a letter arrived on Xmas eve of all times! to say they had made other plans.
My subsequent enquiries showed they had cosied up with theRoyal mint at LLantrisant, and I had been PRECLUDED from the bidding process.
When I saw the medal they had bought, it had the royal mint coat of arms on one side and writing on the other.
It never sold and was a total disaster! They really didnt have a clue how to make something work design wise as well as financially..
Just because they royal mint are bigger doesnt mean they are better.
I dont mind losing a sale of a contract in fair competition, but to be precluded?
to hell with them.
I cant speak for others here , but i can speak for myself.
I do have the qualifications to know what im talking about , and thats in the field of aviation.
And Boeing makes a lot of money delivering products that HAVE to be primarily fit for purpose.
Someone that has aviation terms of reference to follow can only be better than the current CEO.
Who may have a business degree from Harvard,but has failed to move this co forward.
M/S share price roseon Ballmer's announcement of retirement speaks for itself Anyone who has lived through the past 20 odd yrs or so in the IT business knows the bad s/ware put out by M/S.
win 98 1st edition, win milennium, vista up to and including win 8 today, which no ones wants.
The days of the locked in s/ware monopoly are over. M/S will have to to deliver or else suffer the consequences.
Looking at the possible 5 that are shortlisted, the only sheriff that should take on the bunch of cowboys currently running M/soft is Mullaly. He has the diciplines from his 37 yrs in the aviation industry to focus on delivering products that are fit for purpose. long needed at M/S. Elop is just another destroyer of businesses.
Re: Won't matter...
Your second para last sentence, How true. Now ive found what suits me best, Waterproof to IP64, can be dropped from 1.5m onto concrete. 3060 mah battery. Doesnt look as if its off a building site.
An Opticon H21. Perfect for my life style.Also laser scans the bar codes on the ear tags on my cattle.
Came upon it just by chance.A write up ? or review? nowhere. OK a niche market, but why no publicity?
As you said, the UK operators are in it for the fast buck. A so called smart phone wouldnt last a day.
And, wouldnt have one if it was free. Widh Jolla well tho.
Wow! 2thumbs up and 2 upvotes and 4 comments.
Thanks guys! when ive had it a week ill write up a review somwhere on the Reg.
Amy handset bigger than say 4in long is going to be really impractical for folk who actually do stuff other than sit in front of a computer all day.
for example im a farmer, whose workday is and can be most of the time quite the opposite to a desk bound job.So why not take the bendy phone idea to the next level and make it foldable?
then you could protect the fragile bits like the screen and keyboard from harm, it would fit the average pocket better, and it could be flipped open when it rings to answer a call.
We could call it a flip phone!!
It would work like the book that folds shut or opens to read , or the pocket knife that folds shut or boxes with hinged lids or suitcases with hinged covers, its been done elsewhere!!
Damm its already been consigned to the out of date bin.
Well the money is there to buy such a phone but if it aint the money stays in my pocket.
However i found the other day a handset that matches almost all my needs.
its called an Opticon H21 1d.
It is waterproof, will stand a drop onto concrete from1.5mtrs, has a 3060 mah battery to last all week and will scan bar codes on my cattle ear tags.
so why havnt the register or anyone else for that matter, done a review of it? cos it aint a consumer product. Its an industrial business handset.
Arriving on Wednesday.
I wonder if Curiosity has a small chamber where some of this soil can be put, add some water and a seed from earth here, and see what happens? It would need some martian atmosphere to stop the water evaporating like in a vacumn. Co2 to oxygen? as a byproduct?
Half way to terraforming.
Now if they added a sim card slot and it made calls it would wipe the hand set market.
Just a thought
Re: I, for one, will be looking at Jolla with interest
Me too, tho whats of more interest still is the return of proper keyboards onto smart phones.
look at the disaster M/soft have had with their on screen keyboards in their latest pc s/ware.
For real work, id bet that just about everyone uses keyboards for imput.
Nokia had at one time engineers who sat down and looked at pda's , of which many had good, properly sized and spaced keyboards and said, how can we put a phone into these?
The result was the communicator. A proper business communication device. I currently use the 9210i, tho have the earlier 9110 and later 9300. Both of these are deficient.in some way or another.
the best keyboard is/was on the Psion 5. If they used that form factor with a modern screen and jolla, Id buy it in a second.As Ive said many times before here on The Reg, the money is there when the product is, ill buy it. right now, it isnt, so the money stays burning a hole in my pocket. Nice feeling!!.
With a name like that, Id be interested to know wether this head master was a member of the Stazi at some time in the past .His behavior is reminicent of cold war Eastern Europe.
Driving a chore?
I guess im not one of the" most people".I just love driving, wether its my car, or my truck or my tractor.
My interest is to try and get the highest milage from every gallon of fuel I buy., as well as operating whats in fact a transportation machine in the most accurate way from here to where ever im planning on going.
The truck is an interesting case.
I needed a small commercial vehicle back in 1985 to carrry a heavy weight.all 2.5 tons in fact.
So built it. Needed to get special vehicle classification for it. DVLA wer most helpful.
Used it all over europe in the 1990's.
So when I drive Im not beholden to any one else like a coach driver or train operator.
It just me and my decisions at play.
same I guess for pilots who fly for pleasure.
Tho im sure commercial pilots enjoy getting it right everytime as well.
Anyone else drive for pleasure? Cant be the only one?.
A true 24ct gold colour?
Putting aside all the above personal views wether your in to the Iphone bling or not,
its going to be interesting to look at one of these if it comes about, as Ive been involved in anodising for a long time, paticularly the colour gold..
to get a true 24ct gold colour is quite difficult,
1. you need to use a very high grade purity of aluminium, which is not suitable for mas production machining, ie Iphone body.
2. the anodising is done in hot sulphuric acid to get any decent thickness of aluminium oxide, then ,
3.the metal needs to be polished to a high degree before any anodising is done,
4. then the most difficult bit, is dyeing it in the gold colour solution.
5. Length of time in this tank and colour saturation are critical to get consistent results over a production run of thousands.
My guess is that there will be colour variation , apart from colour fading over time.
some colours are very fast, yellow is not one of them.
hope this forewarns potential purchasers, Look at it before you buy to make sure its what you expect.
Its a great finish if everything comes right.
6. Finally, sealing in sodium silicate solution helps it last longer.
For daily wear? not the best colour..
Were off grid, tho have 2 sets of 33,000 3 phase overhead some 50 yds away overhead.
My son built a 10ft high darrius wind turbine for his A level cdt. Won the Siemens prize that year at Poole Grammar.
We thought to put 10 ft long copper by 50 turns on each blade and set it up near the power lines just to see if the cutting of the powerline field would give us a voltage across the coils when the wind was spinning the turbine. Never got round to it. We did think it was stealing power from the SEB.. Also considered wether the coils would draw power from the earths magnetic field. Never found out.
Re: One size doesnt fit all
I type a lot every day in my own business on a Dell D800 keyboard.
I also have a Nokia communicator 9210i which i can type on almost as quickly.
Why? because its got properly spaced and sized keys.
The BB crams the same amount of keys into half the space.
So if youve small hands the BB is fine.
Ive big hands and they just not small enough to hit one key at a time.
Does that help you understand the problem?
In the same way you cant put big feet into small shoes.
Common sense really.
One size doesnt fit all
I looked in at Car Phone warehouse last week, just to look around, in the dispairing hope there might just be a handset to meet my needs.
I saw on the Blackberry display the querty handset poster displayed around 6 in tall. I went to the desk and said I want that one please, The assistant got one out of its box, and I looked at it, dismayed to see it was a much smaller one than the poster.
Why cant I have that one? I said. The droid said this is the only one we can offer.how stupid is you boss I said.Your like a shoe shop which sells only one size shoes, or a car maker equiping every model from the smallest to the biggest with the same small wheels.
As Ive said before that BB is for childrens hands,
There are millions of folk who are bigger than kids, with big feet and hands. I know lots who CAN afford a new handset but wont buy one till theres one that fits their needs.
Any handset maker ignoring the real needs of customers will go to the wall. And it will serve them right.
The fanciest OS with the best security is useless if the BASICS arnt there.
The first priority in any technology is that FORM must define FUNCTION.
When is any journalist speciallising in the mobile phone industry going to have the courage to tell it like it really is? My guess they all put writing glowing reports about every handset to ensure the makers keep sending them handsets to write up.
A modern version of the emperors new clothes.
Currently in the middle of discussions to resolve slowdown at peak times on national adsl
did lots of line checks with speedtest.net and speedtest.btwholesale.com
Average d/load is 4.5mbps. over a rural line of 6km from exch down to 1,5 evernings
So no fault in line. Sync to exch at 6mbps.
My guess is that
1. theres been a big increase in internet users over the past few yrs
2 theres been very little investment in the national backbone by BT till recently such as fibre to the cabinet.
3. VM wont pay for more bandwidth from BT.
BT business will give a better service but at a much increased cost.
Most of their customer service is now routed to india. etc. Nice girls by terrible english. Cant follow them at all.
Had to call their HO to request connection to their Swansea call centre.
Looking for another isp . however, We have 2 pairs of copper to the house, ie 2 seperate phones may get BT to the second pair and compare results at the same time.
Then dump the worst one.
Despite the wide choice of handset makers and their various offerings,
I still havnt found a new phone to meet my needs, even tho I can afford just about any of them.
I just cant understand why the makers havnt analysed the many different types of usersand cater for the wildly different needs out there.
For example, on one side theres the office worker, whose enviroment is generally quiet, clean, and weather proof, On the other side theres the, lets say the blue collar worker, out in the wet,or noisy, dirty world for whom the office type handset would be quite unsuitable.
Anyone in the latter category, using say a digger or lathe or other machinery, has to concentrate on what he is doing, and doesnt want any of the smart phone features when hes at work.
What he does want is,
A good loud ring, a good loud speaker, a bright screen, a foldable design like clamshell or flip phone, so when in his overalls the screen and a PROPER full sized Querty keyboard is protected, a big batttery, , a solid tough case that will withstand a lot of dropping or misuse and waterproof.
Well, theres not one made . If there was Id have found it. And dont suggest the Blabkberry as the k/board is just for 5yr olds.
I ran a survey recently amongst a lot of people I know who use a dumb phone. I asked why havnt you upgraded to a big screen smart set?
The answer without exception was that it didnt do what their existing set would do, and they dont like the glass keyboards.
In addition there is an older age group who grew up without mobile phones or the internet, whos learning was done from the written work in books.
Those books had the format of black type on white paper, with an index at the beginning with a list of what in each chapter.
Now Nokia designed their 9210i communicator around this layout, for the business user. And it works a treat.
Can you get this layout with android? I dont think so , nor WinP 8 or on the Iphone.
I do dispair of the handset makers for their lack of innovation for the market differences.
Shame really, there missing out on a lot of customers.
As in so many other walks of life, one size doesnt fit all.
Frustrated in Dorset.
Living in the sticks
Thats us, miles from anywhere, only link is the phone. Nearest other homestead 1 mile away.
We like it, and, realise the buck for everything stops with us, and our farm machinery included.
so we run our lives accordingly.
I cant recall the last time we had an incident here caused by our own lack of care.
I find it more stressful in our local town Poole some 17 miles away.
Anyway I dont really want to know what the us is up to. More useful to all if the article was about the UK.
What about historical fine art?
So I earn my living as a metal artist. I am currently making some plaques that have naked children on them, yes there with the permission of the ~Thorwaldsen museum in copenhagen. The originals were made in 1830. they feature night and day . they have winged cherubs ie children!! in the images.
Am I also prevented from looking at the cherubs on the Sistine chapel ceiling painted by Michaelangelo?
Also I have a print that my father who bought it in Prague in 1930 of a classical photo by a famous artist of a naked lady..
And what about the pictures my mother and father took of me when I was 9 months old in a cot with no clothers on?
What about Rhodin's kiss? and the Rokeby venus? and all the other classical naked images male and female. The 3 graces by Canova?
So where is the line drawn to say beyond this is porn and before it its not?
If the gvmt want people to accept this censorship they will have to define it first. Accurately.
I dont think it can be done.
I will be opting out of this regulation as I need to look up classical art on the net for my vocation.
being off grid
It was some 43 yrs ago i had the choice of sticking in an urban area ie with all main services OR going totally off grid, ie independent for everything a long way out in the UK sticks..
glad i did as theres no point in any meter wether smart or not if there aint any local grid supply to fit it to.
nice being independent.
As to generating power, no problem up to 25kva 240 V and 11kva 3 phase.
To put it simply,
if this article is good enough for the front page of the Register, then the comments should be as well.
Comments on the register are as important as the articles, because theres a lot of old fashioned British common sense out there without which the register in my opinion ,wouldnt be worth going to on a daily basis.
There, ive sorted it for you. Get it right next time. OK?
the last ting I had to do on shutting down my aircraft ,was to throw the ground /flight switch to ground ,and disconnect the ground acc trolley.
Then reverse the process the next time i was due to fly.
When everything was up and running, throw the g/f switch to flight and all was ready to go.
some time ago mind you,4 bigRolls Royce griffons with contra props were always a joy to start up , do the mag drop test to keep the pilot happy.
14 hr sorties over the water wernt funny. My job was to get us there and back.
Dont modern a/liners have g/f switches? seems a common sense thing to do.
Im sorry, but Im going to disagree with your statement in para 4 A classic keyboard.
Its a childs keyboard for heavens sake! The last time a classic keyboard was offered was in the nokia 9210 range with properly spaced keys for proper typing for normal male hands.
also going back a bit further in time has everyone forgotten the Psion 5? again designed for functionality by engineers for professional people who are still out there waiting for a modern hand set with, I say again, a proper sized keyboard.
I know you didnt design the Q10, the problem lies with the execs at B/berry.
Re: @ted frater - Very recently
Id buy one too ie, the Q10 "IF" I could use it!!. The keyboard is for kids ie 5yr old sized hands.
I wouldnt have one if it was free.
The Nokia communicator 9210i I currently use has a keyboard for LARGE hands.
Mr. Thorsten Heinz, copy that and youd sell millions. Making it as it is, your doomed to be a has been maker.
Its too early to make a proper assessment of this phone, as theres no technical data on it in this article.
Initially it looks like just another handset where form follows fashion, which is a pity.
When is a phone maker going to have the courage to actually analyse what business users might want, like Nokia did when the defined the Communicator? A phone where form followed the percieved function of its time? If and when theres a proper assessment of this phone here on the Reg, ill write a proper post with more on this theme.
I couldnt agree more.
today's journalists covering the mobile industry would need to have a private income to tell it like it really is.
regrettably if they wrote what they really thought they wouldnt get any phones to write about from the manufacturers. So all articles about mobiles are really comparing like with like .
Depends what you drive
Classic cars and trucks are cheap to insure,
my 5.5ton circa 1959 truck plus 1 ton caravan@ 30 ft long costs £95.00 pa. albeit a special vehicles classification.(that used to be showman HGV) standard car tax rate
The Zetor 1971 classic tractor for road and farm use costs £35.00 pa. no tax!!
The Suzuki 5 door 1600 petrol fully comp is £250 pa, for daily use.
The PITA is the every 3 yrs full medical for the HGV licence.@ £150.00 my GP charges.
To make you laugh, Had an arrythmia show up only at night. I argued with the DVLA, medical dept.
" I dont drive my HGV at night when im asleep" They approved my HGV licence!!
Re: A second attempt.
Both this reply and the one following comment whats wrong?etc.
the 1st answer is simple, I dont have experience of those nokia handsets.
2nd answer, the keys on any BB are TOO small for me to use. I cannot hit one on its own I invariably hit 2!! so i cant use it, whereas the Nokia 9210 I currently use has properly spaced keys for BIG hands.
If youve not seen one look for one on Ebay.
hope you now understand..
A second attempt.
I posted my thoughts yesterday on this handset, it either didnt get through or has been moderated out.
so heres another go.
I dispair of BB. This handset uses the same form factor but with upgraded s/ware.
It missed an opprtunity to make form fit the function. Ill enlarge on this. Its the same as a shoe maker making just one size that has to fit all feet.
If this shoemaker wants to survive it cant go down this road. nor can BB. The problem is as Ive written many times here on the register ,is that making a handset with small querty keys means that folk with big hands cant use them. another lost sale for BB, which they really cant afford in todays competitive market.
Once upon a time Nokia looked at who would use their communicator, and designed the product to suit. From their model 9110 onwards till the 9300 they had keyboards that really worked. I still use one today despite being 10 yrs old. Why? because its the nearest to a standard pc keyboard.
My time is too valuable to spend trying to type. Its the content that matters and how easy it is to use.
Form has to fit function NOT fashion.
Dowsing worked for me.
on a sunny spring day back in 1974 i had an appointment at 2.30pm at the poole registry office witha particularly fine maid.
It was a At 1pm I had a chance of a JCB for half an hour to find a well.
I took a coat hanger ,made 2 rods and walked with them out into the field in front of the house.
They crossed at a point some 10 yards from the fence. I walked the spot 2 times to confirm.
I put down a house brick and told the driver to look there.
Off I shot to poole.
On our return with my new missus, there was a well with a cap stone some 3ft below the field level.
we lifted it up and there was a lovely brick lined well of good water.
Use it still today.
I thought Id read what everyone else had to say.Then put my foot in it. Well? you ask a somewhat loaded question, Because its like comparing peas out of the same pod. there to similar to really differentiate much between them.
So my answer is neither, Because for all their clever tricks and fast processors and big screens they just dont do what I need. If Ive said it once ive written it at least a dozen times.I NEED A PROPER BUTTON KEYBOARD Not a glass one.
The clever dicks who design these handsets should be made to do their design work on them. Thy use proper keyboards with proper cad s/ware on proper pc's dont they? they would soon chuck the glass screens in the bin in frustration.
So for the texting i do on my handset I still use a nokia communicator 9210i. Untill the handset makers mend their ways and get their heads out of the sand , they aint getting any of my money.
Take the Blackberry a keyboard for 3yr olds. A bloody insult to anyone else. for that kind of stupidity they deserve to go to the wall.
Form MUST follow function NOT fashion.
And I dont want to hear it costs too much. When you can get a pocket calculator from Tesco for £1.50 with a screen and proper buttons.
I pick up the ringing phone, if its a live caller and a sales droid, i start to bark!!.
then in a high pitched voice tell my doggie to stop picking up the phone and answering it.
More barking! then in the high pitchedvoice I have a long conversation with my dog with him answering as tho he understands.
Re: Q10 Looks Awesome!
Im with Mombasa, I too have 500 quid waiting for a handset with a PROPER hardware keyboard.
Theres less profit in this type than a software on screen k/board and form has so far in app phones followed fashion. Not function I curse the day the Iphone was invented. However!!!. probably in 2014 there will be another contender for the keyboard crown. this will be a psion5 type clamshell handset with a k/board matching the 5.
In the mean time ill still keep using my nokia 9210i communicator. The best keyboard available today, despite being made in 2002. And a good one still makes 75 quid on ebay.
Re: What's missing
Well, Ive some good news not yet generally known about.
There will be a business class handset within 18 months with the following spec.
It will be like the psion 5 same size and shape
with a modern high res screen
running android jelly bean so it looks like symbian on a Nokia communicator
a full size proper button properly spaced querty kboard
2 part hinged clamshell form factor
made and developed in S Africa.
Priced about the same as an Iphone. 5
No, its not an unwillingness to learn, she doesnt have the time to devote to what might be a pointless exercise.
when she gets a text message or a phone call, she is the center of a medical hands on service where a reply has to be made right away. She has 16 staff on duty at any one time over a 20 square mile area.
Emergencies crop up , and she manages them via her mobile.
she texts so fast!! its amazing to just see her do that.
She is a medical professional of the highest quality.
hope you follow.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply.
We had a Desire z as a possible upgrade for my wifes razr.
She sent it back on account of the way the software didnt follow what she is used to.And she texts for business many timesa day.
I found the keys too small for me to manage as well..
However, I dont think Im a lone voice in the wilderness.
Ive many friends that in their mature yrs whohave feature phones.
They havnt upgraded to smart phones and I speak for them.
Why? because most of them have been to say Car p Warehouse, to try them and cant get on with the on screen keyboards andthe android software.
They dont find it easy to do something different.
but they would love a new handset that worked like their old handset with one of the nice big screens and a decent sized keyboard. They can afford such a device if it was made.
But as you say theve been abandoned by the industry.
Shame really as there are many millions of us like that. .
Ive said it before and I say it again, i wont buy any of these even the new Blackberry as NONE of them have a proper keyboard. What sort do I need? take a look at the Psion 5 or the nokia 9210. These are the ONLY ones I can type on.
Why's that? besause Ive big hands and I want to type just like I do on my normal pc.
I dont see why I should have to struggle with the stupid small on screen keys.
The reason all hand set makers have gone down this road is because their ist concern is to sell a product thats cheaper for them to make so more profitable!!.
And then try and bullshit the customer in believing its better!!. Well,they wont bullshit me.
Interestingly, Ive mailed John Lettice the editor of the Reg saying ill write a full article for him for free about this omission if he would take the time to read it. No reply.
Re: A proper keyboard? @ted frater Posted Thursday 13th December 2012 04:06 GMT
But I Do know what I want.
In my 1st post I mentioned the Psion 5 and the nokia 9210i
Google for them and youll see or pics of them on Ebay.
I use the nokia now and also have the P5 here as an example of what I find is the ideal k/board.
Do let me know if you follow when you have had a look at these 2 examples.
Re: A proper keyboard?
A hand set is just a tool to do a job.
Different folk want their handsets to do different things.
I use tools all the time and what I use has to deliver results, as I earn my living from them.
So for example my lathe is designed to turn metal its not a fashion item designed to look pretty or have street cred over what its meant to do. Its designed from the frame up to be functional.
So a handset for me has to meet my needs. these are primarily to have
1. a good clear screen,
2. a proper keyboard
3. a decent sized battery
4.a fold up design to protect the k/board and screen
5. a strong case to be strong enough to withstand knocks, wet, and being in a pocket with hardware, ie nuts bolts tools etc.
Once you have the form factor right, you then can put any software you like on it.
Wether its simple Symbian or android or QNX.
Also Ive big hands so small keys are a waste of time.
If you gave me a Blackberry for free I couldnt use it.
Ive tried the Dell Streak mini, beautiful handset, miss type all the time on the on screen k/board.
No feed back like a button k/board.
do you understand now?
Re: A proper keyboard?
I dont do the double spacing, Im using thunderbird. mail programme in Linux.
Re: A proper keyboard?
Theres a BIG difference between say a blackberry keyboard and a PROPER one like on the Psion 5 or nokia 9210i
Perhaps your nor aware of the difference.
There isnt a phone made with a proper keyboard.
Ive seached for it for 2 yrs!
If there was one good enough Id have found it.
Its not for the lack of trying!
hope you follow
A proper keyboard?
Ill belive it when I see it.
Im sick to death of form following fashion.
form must follow function. ~Doesnt any hanndset maker see this?
any one recall the Psion 5? or the nokia 9210I
both had PROPER keyboards,
Why? because people that use ordinary keyboards with their PC's want the same on their handsets.
They want to concetrate on the content of what their typing not on how to type.
an on screen keyboard is there cos its cheaper to make, and theres more profit for the hand set makers.
I counted up the no of buttons on my 9210I theres over 70.
Its a joy to text on.
Wether RIM have the foresight to do the new one with a properly sized keyboard, well have to wait and see.
If they have the guts to buck the fashion trend Ill get one tho I somwhat doubt it.
Until a handset maker does the money will stay in my pocket.
How about a survey?
If you want a proper keyboard in a handset make your view known by writing just a YES here on this forum.
Driven by results NOT fashion.
So, you say you cannot own knowledge,
Im going to disagree with you.
I certainly own knowledge,in the way that I have know how that no one else has,
until I am stupid enough to put it in the public domain.
Any Co. or organisation that develops technology that new ,that does something different to what has been done before, has knowledge they own.
Bit of a can of worms really.
Re: "massive costs"
What id like to know is why suddenly the connection to the national grid has doubled.
with any project, one needs to cost the whole project on a realistic basis.
That means asking the local grid operator, which my guess is Scottish and Southern, for a proper quote.
I can say from personal experience that they will always think of the most expensive way of making grid connections.
Some 40 yrs ago I asked for a quote for an 11,000volt line single phase to deliver 5kw at 250v. over 800 yrds.
The quote in 1972 was £1000.00.
I didnt have that spare at that time so bought a 2.5kva Lister startamatic for £100.00.
And still have !! but itsno longer connected. Weve upgraded since then.
Last year I asked for a quote for the same supply but 3 phase at 10kva. The quoted £45,000 for the 800 yds.
and wanted to go underground
Now I can buy a suitable transformer for £.7,000.00 and 8 poles for £500.00.
Cable I put at £2,000.00 so doing it myself to their standards would cost me at the outside no more than £12,000.00.
I can buy a lot of gas oil for that, and a new 15kva set for £5,000.00. and im independent.
Being off grid really is cheaper than being connected in a isolated location.
Now I can buy a suitable transformer from Bonar Long for
Re: Any good as a phone?
Interestingly, I do understand the market.
Thats why ive chosen to be outside of it, and,
only intereact with it when it suits ME.
Were very fortunate to be independent for everything.
So Everything in my world is based on results.
Wether in my home, business, or my personal life.
If I didnt deliver results in my work I wouldnt be asked to solve other co's engineering problems.
Results? They really are the bottom line.
So Form has to follow function in my world.
what happens in the world of fashion is only of concern when the sheeple follow the latest trend regardless of results, to the exclusion of common sense,and the market panders to them at the expense of real user requirements.
You and them there welcome to it.
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