49 posts • joined Tuesday 29th April 2008 13:55 GMT
wow, way to go there with the out of date FUD .... I think you got your whole argument the wrong way round (as for lumping windows in with mac...lol, only in Billy G's mind ).
Windows users only want to use their machines? Would be nice if they could do so, in between the virus scanning, defraging, installing another malware scanner, the latest video and sound drivers as that new game they bought locks without them etc.
Been running Windows since 3.0, Linux since Suse 6.4, and sorry, whilst I may be a classed as geek, Linux is the OS I think of when people talk about things just working. Once again you use the strawman of having to install Linux yourself, when windows comes pre-installed and pre-configured. Funny isn't it that Microsoft is still fighting tooth and nail to stop Linux being pre-installed on systems like netbooks so that people can make the real comparison. As for clean installs, I know I'm not alone in knowing that the majority of Linux distros have been wiping the floor with windows on that score for a good while now.
And once again you fall into that shill trap - unlike Microsoft, Linux users don't want to force Linux on everyone. Bill G is the one with the 'a computer in every home and Microsoft software on it' quote.
As a Linux user I just want to ensure that hardware companies support it, after all its very popular in the enterprise sector where I work, and feel it would be nice if certain convicted Monopoly is no longer allowed to charge a tax on very computer I buy, when I don't wish to use their software.
Some good arguments there, but you have to understand Alex is either a shill or a troll, he enjoys sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'I'm not listening, I'm not listening'. At least if he's being paid to do so, that makes him slightly less of sad individual.
Sorry, you remind me of my 10 year son, who is frequently reminded that 'just saying something, doesn't make it true' when asked if he's tidied his room.
I find it wholly amusing for you to suggest that Linux users are flooding windows articles due to a frustration due to the lack of Linux articles on The Register, rather than it being the case that any article about a Microsoft competitor is flooded by Microsoft shills desperate to talk down the competition.Look at any article on Firefox, Apple ( especially the iPhone ) or Sony. It sure would be nice to read the comments section on any those without having to ‘filter’ through all of the irrelevant information posted by people who obviously don’t care #nor like# those products.
But you already know this, if you've been reading The Register for more than a week.
Check my previous posts if you like, you'll find I'm not one to use the term M$ in their posts, and only referred to the attempt to get it banned on a previous comment section to highlight the hypocrisy of windows shills such as yourself.
The Register, to me at least, seems to feature a lot of articles about Linux and Open Source in general, reflecting it's expanding adoption within the industry. Hey look, there was even another Dziuba flamebait article posted today. No doubt some of your friends will be turning up with their 'FreeTard' comments shortly. The fact that people such as yourself now feel the need to have Microsoft comment sections locked down with only pro-windows comments shows, perhaps, how much Microsoft has lost in support from the people who it used to rely on to push it most - 'IT Professionals'.
Re-reading your comment, I'm actually wondering if its part cut and paste from Microsoft's current guidance, as you appear to have forgotten to replace the word 'forum' with something more appropriate to The Registers comments section.
Thank you for proving my point ... another semi-illiterate teenage troll with nothing to add but abuse... I take you and your buddies intend to stop posting flat out lies on the Linux articles then... no thought not.
The issue Ash is referring to is actually caused by Microsoft Trolls polluting Linux support groups. I can probably finger a few posters in this thread of being guilty of this practice. Yes, you know who you are.
There's one particularly sad individual who inhabits the unbuntu and advocacy groups, who amongst other things has claimed to be a kernel hacker, yet has been show to have actually never run Linux from their lack of knowledge. All he does is use foul language and insist Microsoft is better, whilst claiming to have hit x number of Linux issues, all of which are generally shown to be either made up, or a willingly obtuse issue like the Doom install above, found by googling.
I'd probably find it amusing, if wasn't part of an orchestrated campaign ( yes boys, it is, we've all read the docs Microsoft wanted buried in Comes V Microsoft, so don't bother tinfoil hat comments), that is ultimately is aimed at making sure that I don't have the freedom to install whatever operating system I want on the hardware I own.
On the Doom issue above, as Neoc points out it is a hack created to allow a win game run cross platform - here's a hint to Mr Later - try installing UT2k4 on a linux distro from that time - you'll probably find the install script provided (with Epic's blessing) on the original DVD works first time ....
But then even Microsoft has pretty much given up on PC gaming, even cutting FS - there's just no profit in it compared to the consoles. Then what do you really need Windows for in the home? After all, if your a Microsoft fanboi you'll already be browsing the web and downloading your movies via your Xbox 720...
@ the various AC MS shrills
Oh dear, Stevie B been on your backs about how bad your doing trying to do Linux down? You haven't been threated with redundancy, a pay-cut, or worse, a chair, have you?
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. All that semi-illiterate trolling of Linux articles being undermined by clear answers from people who actually 'shock horror' currently use Linux, so you have to resort to pleading with Ms Bee. ' Please Miss no Linux comments on our article, please please'.
It was amusing to see the whining about the use of M$ be taken on board, but hey, FreeTard is fine as adjective to describe Linux users - even through the experience shows that the majority of torrenting FreeTards tend to use Windows.
But anyway, carry on. It gives me something to chuckle over while enjoying my morning coffee.
@ha ha ha ha ha ha flamebait
Yeah, another flamebait article about Linux, and yet again we see the Linux 'fanatics/zealots' posting well argued reasoned commentary about the issue, and windows supporting trolls / shrills posting ad homein flamebait attacks.
Look, you did read the guidance from your masters ( google: Comes v Microsoft 'The slog' ) didn't you? You're rather failing at making Linux users look like kooks when all your posts can be summed up as illiterate teenage trolling. Or is that the only market share that hasn't woken up to how bad Windows and Microsoft really are?
@Why stop there
Funnily enough in the days before the free bundling of IE and the widespread availability of broadband, I seen to remember consumers having to do something similar to select the applications they wished to use with their PC's, in a place built from bricks and mortar, quaintly referred to as a shop ...
But then you probably panic when faced with all choice on the shelves on your local supermarket don't you?
As has been said before (and willfully ignored by the shills), it's all about Microsoft's abuse of it's monopoly position, to try and force itself into other areas, at the expense of other competitors.
For those raving against the removal IE, the main point is to do with Microsoft's web strategy based on i.e. IE -> ActiveX -> Silverlight, and through this path the idea to tie a 'rich internet' experience to Windows only, at a time when more and more devices are becoming web-enabled. I'm sure the phone manufacturers are really happy at the idea of being forced to license a version Windows that is full of bloat and insecure, instead of other more suitable options, simply because Microsoft has been able to tilt the playing field.
Oh and AC:02:19 - wow, I really hope that's a satirical trolling take on Microsoft Shill, because if it isn't and you claim to be an IT professional, well, god help your users.
@ Still FUDing AC
Ouch, I must have really hit the nail on the head for you to bite so badly.
Nasty comments on the Reg? Funnily enough the nastiest mudslinging and name calling comments tend be posted by people posting AC and supporting Microsoft. Hey look, you just did it yourself in response to some fairly reasoned comments. And thats not my 'gimp ego' talking and you know it. Are you the troll that took to impersonating Mark and posting lurid comments to try and discredit him by any chance?
BTW, just so you understand, here's a handful of pointers as to how multiple AC's such as yourself are so easily identified as a shills. You can also apply some these points to articles about any other Microsoft competitor by simply substituting Linux for say, Apple or Sony.
- Always uses words fanboi or zealot to describe the opposing point of view, and add plenty of personal insults, whilst claiming that anytime they use on lines forum they are actually always on the receiving end, and not because they have a bad attitude.
- Always tried multiple Linux distro's and never managed to get one running successfully, and it couldn't be just be down to their ineptitude, as they're a hot shot IT professional.
- Feel so strongly about the above that they feel it's their duty to warn everyone else about this. This amuses me no end on a tech site like the Reg, Isn't it's readership, by default, supposed to love trying new things, from OS's, to gadgets, to new programming languages?
- Always assumes that all Linux supporters want to see Linux enjoy the same kind of monopoly that Microsoft currently does - the idea of open competition on a shared market is just so alien to them.
- Completely ignore the point that you can BUY commercial distro's and support the same as you can for other propriety OS's, if thats the way you want to go. And that you should get the same vendor support on pre-installed Linux distro as you would any OS provided by an OEM. No, we're all Freetards aren't we?
Anyway, you've given me a good giggle on this Friday morning. Still trying to make sure people don't read that useful linked article are we?
Wow, four posts before the FUD starts
Firstly, I know you haven't tried any flavour of Linux, and secondly you certainly don't work in IT as you would know that the article referenced is applicable to anyone asking questions in a support forum, even those provided by large commercial database vendors.
But then you probably ended up shilling for a living as you're probably one of those kind of guys I've seen in Sun's Java forums. You know the kind who post their college homework questions in full and getting all huffy when people suggest that perhaps the poster should really have a go at coming up with a solution and then asking specific questions about the problems they hit rather than bleat 'but i have to hand it in tomorrow, so just send me the finished answer please'
BTW, ever taken at look at how requests for help are handled in similar forums for Microsoft products? I think you'll find open source forums are actually a lot friendlier and helpful, even to people who haven't read the 'Smart way' article.
@ the last word shrills
Yawn, give up with the out of date FUD will you. Tell Steve to give you a new script.
William - here's a hint.
Kubuntu standard install < 30 mins, including Open Office, Firefox and Nvidia's 3D drivers - No command line trickery needed, just a few simple questions answered and off you go.
MS XP Pro install > 4hours, including updates, the need locate driver CD's or downloads. Oh and the requirement to install a 3rd party AV / firewall product before going on line for updates.
Both done recently, on standard spec PCs.
Your either FUDing or have been taken in by the FUD. As for keeping away from dodgy sites - you have read all the recent articles about malware gangs preferring to go the route of infected adds served off 'brand name' sites now haven't you? Maybe you DO need to do some patching, if you aren't just trolling.
As for the 'it looks different - so they'll run away' AC. I guess that's why Microsoft has never changed the windows interface with each subsequent release?
The real differences in computer GUIs have been so little, for so long, I'd compare it to the issue of getting a new car. Yes, the lights and other functions may move, but the steering wheel and pedals tend to stay in same place. But of course, you employer likes to make sure that idea is swamped by a mountain of FUD.
And yes, I've put Linux installs ( way back to SuSE 6.4) in front of people who would qualify as 'uninterested in IT'. And they didn't comment about any differences, they just got on with what they were doing.
You also reuse that other tired strawman, 'if it was popular, it would be targeted and be as vunerable' . It is popular, and it is targeted - on nice big juicy powerful web servers. And because it was designed with networking and security in mind in the first place, it's still far more secure than Windows, which is one of the reasons it popular for such tasks. ( and from what I gather it's the most popular OS base used in dedicated firewalls, even those run by Microsoft ).
You know, most Linux users aren't after Linux monopolising the desktop in the way Bill so desperately wanted windows to ( 'A computer on every desk and windows on it' ). We like fair competition - it tends to ensure things improve over time. We just want to ensure that we are free to put the software we trust on OUR computers, without the need to pay a tax to prop up Microsoft. I guess that makes me a capitalist snob then?
Unfortunately, serfs such as yourself feel so threatened by this, and so you happily flood any Linux related news stories with tired FUD, that was hardly accurate 10 years ago - windows also tended to require command line trickery then, and personally I tend to consider the registry hacks Microsoft pushes through it's knowledge base as even worse than the command line / config file hacks that MSCE's love to claim Linux always requires.
So please give it a rest, we know who you are and its tiresome all the way down to the ' I must post AC' so my changing story can't be tracked MO.
@Microsoft AC: 22:45
Congratulations, you just described 99% of the computer usage of the general public. Your point was?
@Foobar and poor outed AC shill
Well done mate!
I originally thought your evil tirade was piece of reverse MS shilling attempting to make Open Source advocates look bad.
But , you've gotten an AC to stupidly bite and out themselves as a Microsoft employee. So the next time an Unbuntu story comments gets flooded with 100+ AC comments posting out of date FUD, we can just refer them back to here, and say 'Hey look, there are Microsoft employees preferring to post as AC in the Register comments, now why would that be? I mean its not like the company has a history of astroturfing now is it?'.
Oh wow, the FUD hits overdrive
I guess Linux really isn't a threat, or do we have a bunch of MSCE's bricking themselves at the idea they might find themselves first out on their arses in the current crunch?
As for the bullshit AC above:
I was going to give you a point by point answer until I realised how obvious a shrill you are. It may have escaped your notice that even in this IT site the majority don't want IE only sites and .NET ( or flash or whatever ). They want ( and want to be able to write ) sites that conform the an agreed HTML standard, not some EEE bastardisation. And funnily enough, I know only two sites, out of the large and varied number I visit that choke when using Firefox ( both linux and windows versions ) so I guess that FUD is getting old too...
Oh and kill the Linux needs hacking to set up for a new user, it's old, its wrong and really shows you either haven't looked at linux distro in the last 10 years, or had to do a vanilla windows install. The former takes around 20 minutes, the later half a day - if you are lucky enough to have all your hardware driver disks handy.
Oh, look the shrills were working late again last night
Whats the matter boys, stuck in the office waiting for that server to reboot after applying the latest patch?
Of course Linux isn't a problem, after all, if it was, your bosses would have to extend XP's life yet again, and then force vendors in the netbook space to up the specs ( and prices ) of their machines to work with it. Oh sorry...
But then maybe I'm guessing you'd have to be paid to be such a rabid fanboi of an OS that is so bad it utilizes nearly 20% of a CPU on a 2 grand plus Quad core 'gaming' machine while sitting supposedly 'idle'. As noticed looking at Dell XPS in my local PC World at the weekend - where the Linux based netbooks were getting the most attention of all the PC's out on display.
Better start FUDing some more, boys...
wow .. guess the mircrosoft shrills are having to re-apply for their jobs too ....
Article on VHS finally going the distance, and straight away a bunch of little shrills are chiming in against blu-ray. Boy, you guys must be really worried about your jobs. Working Christmas day too?
As for the guy suggesting that families all gather around their PC's this Christmas to watch that grainy stereo SD download of WALL-E that took all night to download and that junior still doesn't believe he's been given as it wasn't wrapped and under the tree....nice troll.
You and a couple of others have missed a vital point, the account wasn't set up to purely abuse her, it was set up to gain her trust, lead her down the garden path, THEN abuse her. So she couldn't simply filter it out from the get go. From what little we know, it appears it was done in such a way to ensure it would have as big an impact on her as possible. Obviously they got a bigger impact than they expected.
Admittedly, I'm in that group that is uncomfortable with the laws they've bent to get some justice (I've often registered on sites with bogus info where I want anonymity / no spam for what I feel are valid reasons). I would far rather, as you and others have suggested, they gone after her on the more fitting grooming charges, which might have also have had the effect of underling to her and her local community the gravity of what took place.
Once more unto the breech, blind Microsoft shrills .....
Yawn, you really should get your eyes and ears tested if you don't think 1080p and True HD make a difference compared to 720p and stereo forced into Pro Logic.
Funnily enough, you did think it made a difference when HD-DVD was being touted ...
Oh and what about all the stories of GTAIV and Burnout Paradise being truncated as their wasn't enough space on DVD for all the content the developers had originally hoped to included?
@David Wiernicki and @AC @16:06
Yep, lots of either blind people or bored Microsoft shrills ...
As I've said before, plenty of people where I work now have HDTV' s and are in the process of upgrading the rest of their systems to HD. Same for my neighbours and I live in a distinctly middle-to-lower income area. For once the need to replace a broken TV meant that I'm actually in the middle of the wave instead of near the end as I was with DVD.
Yes, the discs are still expensive compared to sale price DVD's, but then as has been pointed out, so were DVD's compared to VHS at this point in their lifetime. In the meantime, I can enjoy HD gaming, and the good programs on the BBC HD service, and my current DVDs nicely upscaled. Yes, I might be only buying Blu-Ray's when they're on special offer, but then thats how I built up my VHS and DVD collections in the first place, as did most people I know ...
Those saying complaining you can't see / hear the difference really do need to get their eyes / ears tested. Or as AC said, stop buying no-name brands at the local aldi.
And I love the idea that the average consumer is as happy to set up a streaming network as a computer geek because they're too lazy to change disks. You know, I don't know anyone who has a DVD changer system - seems a lot of people on el reg love watching the same 5 films in a row - or is this just another shrill strawman to labour the point that the hardware at the start of technology step forward is expensive?
You mean thats why I can't get a nvidia GTX 280 for £50 yet? Or is it the old Microsoft message of wait for SD downloads now, as we all have 100MB broadband with real unlimited usage limits ... just don't mention the DRM in the XBOX and Vista ...
I thought the El Reg shrill brigade had been quiet for a while, guess this one brought them all out of the woodwork ...
I'm sure I'll not be the only one to point this out - Joe Public gets Windows on his PC because thats all he's allowed to buy due to Microsoft's hold over the OEM's. Ditto for businesses.
Hopefully the current trend with laptots will see this finally see this start to be reversed.
As for the Google browser. Well, personally I don't see them as all that evil, but then I don't use a search engine that much tbh, and theirs has the least intrusive adds. I can certainly see the logic in wanting to ensure that Microsoft don't become the Internet gate keeper. However, I do find it amusing that it's the Microsoft fanbois who subscribe to the idea that any company that wishes to compete with Microsoft only wants to do so so it can become a bigger Monopoly than the beast of Redmond, rather than just ensure it's doesn't become the latest EEE roadkill...
When it's released I'll give it a go, if its better than Firefox, I'll move, if not, so long as it follows the standards, it'll be just another test platform.
@Dave and @Iain
And thank you for proving his ... I presume that's because your masters would like all anti-Microsoft comments vetted on their stories. Thanks for giving a perfect example of the Microsoft reverse troll ...
Oh and Iain, the most obsessive trolls are employed by MS, to try and convince the world at large only strange outsiders use anything other than Microsoft products. But then you already knew that.
As for the PSP. Brighter screen, shorter battery life, my god I'm shocked! Yet another Reg troll to bring in the page hits. And yeah, I know, I played too..
Another Linux story, another bunch of Microsoft shrills,
Yes, all the AC's with the out of date FUD and copious wailing.
For the joe sixpacks who might stumble across this thread, if linux was really as bad as they paint, how come so many people with decent IT skills flock to it? How come manufacturers such as Dell and ASUS are going against their Microsoft masters and installing it for consumers?
It's just so funny to see them come here, some of them fresh from trolling usenet with their sad bile and try and tell everyone linux is soooo bad. And yet, all their issues are generally shown to be uninspired FUD generally within minutes. Why do they persist? Some might think a company with lots to lose if Linux takes off on the desktop pays them to poison discussion pages like this. A company for whom the term 'astroturfing' was coined.
An lo, they will retort, that I'm a 'zealot' for suggesting that rather than continue to pay a convicted monopolist for your operating system, that you might like check out a open and free distribution such as Unbuntu. NOOOOOO, they will shriek, it's too different, too hard, copies windows too much. All simply aimed at stopping you from getting hold of a live CD and having an hours play with a different operating system, because they fear that you might like it and, shock horror, install it over windows.
Nice stereotype you got there yourself ... Mr Shrill
You'll find that its the Microsoft Shrills who usually bleat loudest and nastiest, and not just in response to linux items. The vast majority of rebuttals of their FUD against many Microsoft competitors tends to be reasoned and well made, such as Darrens rebutal of the codec FUD above.
Look, you're going to have to get more subtle in your approach. We've all seen the briefing emails you got for your shilling. They came to light as a result of the Comes vs Mircrosoft case, if I remember correctly, and they're still out there on the net for all to see - Groklaw as ever, is a good starting point.
You do know the ones I'm referring to, don't you? The ones about this all being a jihad, and to paint the opposition as fanboys and zealots. The trolling from certain individuals throughout El Reg fits this agenda perfectly.
Of course, it's great joke, attempting to paint non-MS fans as paranoid teenagers, when a particular sad troll that has to resorted to nym cloning and crude innuendo is on your side, isn't it?
@ another day, another batch of shrills
But this time it's DVD codec FUD time ...
Maybe it's because I'm no longer interested in Microsoft's latest OS offerings, but can anyone let me know when they started bundling the DVD codecs with XP, as all the OEM PC's I've bought in the last 8 years or so only had DVD playback because the OEM had installed a third party app, such as PowerDVD, when they built the machine.
Has this changed in the last 18 months since I bought a machine?
Give it up AC shills ...
Even a child can spot you now ...
Outdated FUD once more about recompiling kernels and application compatibility that really doesn't mean anything for the majority of the real world.
Here's a hint at why FOSS is winning. The large development shop I work at dropped the very expensive development IDE it was using about 5 years ago in favour of NetBeans. Since then, when a project has decided what IDE to use, there are only two factors considered now, first and foremost, that it's free, and as a distant second,it supports the technologies we want to use on the project.
The point is that as experienced users, we've long become sick of IDE's that claim to do everything for you, but do so very badly. So we know we just need a decent editor that will accept the libraries we use. And we don't feel we should have to pay through the nose for it as its a commodity technology now.
As computer adoption has pretty much peaked now, even that mythical Joe Bloggs is in the same position. He just wants a cheap OS that does the basics - browsing, mail, possibly some photo editing or movie downloading. A Linux distro like Unbuntu does all those things for free very well on existing hardware. Plus the user doesn't have to shell out £100 for Photoshop Elements or Paintshop Pro. Or get hold of a dodgy copy and worry that its been infected with malware.
As more users become aware that they have no need to pay the Microsoft upgrade tax on a regular basis, just to do the same thing they've always done, the louder Microsoft ( and it's shrills) will have to shout.
After all, with their current setup the chances of Windows 7 being priced realistically and free of bloat are pretty remote.
It's Friday. Its a linux story and the pubs not open yet
so here come all the usual Microsoft shills and troll boys, once again spouting out uninformed FUD ...
Compiling kernel modules? Nope, haven't needed too do that in a good while, in fact the only time I can remember ever needing to have it done was linking the NVIDIA driver in SuSe years ago. And the installer started doing the required step for me automatically, as its should do, a long time ago. As far as I'm aware the only real hardware issue left is wifi, and, once again, it's down to proprietary manufacturers refusing to either write drivers or share specifications. But hey, we'll get there, we managed to get all the main graphics chip manufacturers to play ball eventually. It might have happened quicker if the US government hadn't been bought by a certain monopoly.
Fear of the CLI, yet again. Once again, I assembled this comment using a mixture of cut and paste and a virtual keyboard, 'cos after all everyone knows typing is soooo last century. Of course Microsoft feel the CLI is so useless, so they wouldn't work on such products as the Windows Scripting Engine would they?
A release that works as easy as windows - sorry for years now any linux install I've done has been far less painless and time consuming than any windows install.
If you purposely pick one of the 'build it yourself from the ground up' distros, you will end up doing kernel building and the like, but no Linux user I know would recommend such a distro as a starting point for any windows user wanting to switch. The more friendly distros like Unbuntu, Mandriva, openSuse are quick and easy installs with live disks available to check hardware compatibility before committing.
I hope you get paid well to look so stupid on a tech site...
in my little corner of england
Stagecoach have been running an extended advertising campaign for weekly passes on their buses. The adverts are a huge vinyl wrap-around, that covers the whole of the rear of the bus, I'm sure everyone knows the type. The image is a cartoon washing line with clothing on it, with a letter for each day of the week over each one. As you're probably guessed by now, the items for Wednesday, Thursday and Friday just happen to be the ones that appear on the rear of the bus.
I often wonder, as one passes me of a morning, who the genius was in their advertising department who got that past their management, and how sad is it that I appear to be the only person over 30 who appears to have noticed it.
Oh, I got a bite from the shilling troll
Oh yes, Money, Money, Money .... give it up Bill, you've got more than enough.
And of course, there's the good paying jobs of all those working for the numerous companies Microsoft has steamrolled out of business, because they're so desperate to be an old robber baron style monopoly.
BTW, Microsoft are well know to actually pay well below market rates, hence Bills desperate need to import workers from offshore. Well paid jobs, indeed. Indentured slaves more likely, especially given the quality of the output of late.
Still laughing at your cold closed world. I know many people who love to contribute freely to the things they find interesting or are useful to others, and I'm not just talking about IT here.
But hey, you're probably the sort that helps little old ladies across the road, then demands payment for services rendered...
@Mr Solomon Troll Grundy
So how much longer have Microsoft had to make a stable secure working version of windows? I certainly have some sympathy with the wine developers when their actual target is an ever changing blancmange.
Okay, so 2000 apparently wasn't too bad, but then Microsoft seemed so embarrassed by that, they decided to develop vista.
Sorry, still giggling at the idea that you think the current crop of unstable, proprietary bloatware we see in the shops, or those private sector projects that quietly get dropped don't suffer from poor project management and extended timelines.
and still the shill fest ....
Whole bunch of 'em, still bleating away.
Sorry, Microsoft boys, but even the most recent revisions of you browser still don't do the standards right and are malware magnets.
And to the Opera whiners, you paid for a browser and your whining about Firefox? .... go gripe at the Microsoft shills, their paymasters decided that the best price for a browser was £0.
Hey nothing in IT is perfect, but at the moment Firefox seems to be winning the hearts and minds of the computer literate simply because of the combination of price, speed of fixes, openness, expandability and standards compliance.
Until your proprietary closed browsers can match all of those factors, I think you can look forward to Firefox eating up more of your market share, especially if it continues to pull simple advertising stunts such as this one.
A nice sun style thread to gather up all the shills
Nicely done, el Reg.
All the Microsoft and Opera shills, all squealing in one place.
Especially love all the AC's who think Microsoft's ability to force its standards ignoring browser on unsuspecting non-technical users compares to the Mozilla Foundation getting people to voluntarily take up their wares.
And to the supposed 'linux users' complaining that it doesn't install correctly, or that they couldn't find the correct install procedure for their distro.
If you were so excited that you couldn't be wait for it to be pushed out through your own distro's package management system, then it's your own fault. As others have shown, you were to stupid to find the correct instructions on the site, and thought you were better than the packagers of your distro. Some might even wonder if your Microsoft shills trying to drive a little wedge, with a 'it doesn't work on linux' play ...
Me, I'm happy to sit on the RC2 that got pushed out on kubunto recently, till they get around to pushing the final build out. After all, the only changes should be the version name and possibly the removal of some debugging info.
I suppose I could have made the effort and joined in the record attempt by upgrading from FF2 on my XP partition at home, but as I've hardly booted into it since I invested in a PS3 for gaming, it didn't even cross my mind last night.
@the sad SpitefulGOD troll
Ok - I'll bite -
Why do Microsoft assume they can muscle in on everyone's computer?
On the topic - the cynic in me presumes Facebook would like some money from Google to allow them to integrate, without paying any cash themselves for their use of gmail.
Is it naive to think they would do it in a nice way ...
Initially, reading through the comments I felt people were maybe overreacting.
I was thinking, surely they're just talking about introducing a mechanism where a game such as Burnout Paradise, which has billboards and branded vehicles, can sort of justify including them and could perhaps update these on the fly with different sponsors over the lifetime of the game.
Then someone mentioned EA's love of sports franchises and what they did with Battlefield 2142. Then someone else mentioned bandwidth and download caps.
So, I could tolerate it if its discreet, fitting product placement similar to the movies. It would be nice to think it might result in reduced game prices or allowed the game studios to have a cash cushion to subsidise a few more experimental games, rather than relying purely on tried and tested formula.
For games such as the above mentioned Burnout I wouldn't mind too much if they were encouraged to patch and expand the game for free, and include changes to the sponsors in those updates. I used to be a big UT2k4 player and liked the fact that Epic continued to patch the game and add FREE (admittedly community based) map packs at regular intervals.
However, I can see that for certain companies, it would either be to increase the bonuses taken at board/shareholder level, or to finance the takeover of more individual games with the intent of turning them into yet another franchise.
Plus, given that since Virgin have taken over my decent broadband provider and started turning my nice fast unlimited cable connection into a capped and throttled one for the same money, similar to all the other providers, I really don't like the idea of adding the dynamic downloading of nice big advertising textures, to the stream of data that I download while playing - especially when I'm supposedly playing single player, therefore technically off-line.
You could also argue that racing games such as Gran Turismo and Need For Speed are nothing more than big car advertisements, so one might hope the license agreements with car manufacturers for those games are used to subsidise the game development, rather than provide a purely additional revenue stream to the car companies. Sadly I don't think it's the former.
Why so negative ....
Because they're Microsoft shills, paid to be negative about competitors products. They use terms like 'fanboi' and 'zealot' in a vain attempt to paint anyone who uses such products as even more blinkered than themselves. Straight out of the play book that came to light in the Microsoft v Comes case.
The more rabid are familiar usenet trolls, jumping on the cause in a new stomping ground, Sad, but true.
Oh and I was upgraded to FF3 RC2 earlier this week and the few plugins I use, including flash, still work fine. More FUD, whodathunk ...
Now I'm confused?
My copy locked up the second time I played it in the way Rob describes. It was the Saturday following launch, so now I'm not sure it whether it was the server issue mentioned by D, the uPNP problem mentioned by Joe K, or a single instance of terrible freezing problem that pushed the Microsoft loving AC to run off to XBOX.
Never had a repeat though, touch wood, figured Rockstar's patch had sorted it.
@TestMan - yeah, I'm a little disappointed with how badly it handle's the day to night and building shade lighting changes too. I think it's telling that Rockstar have made the brightness and contrast options so easy to reach within the menus. Annoys me a bit because GT5P has a really great into shade, out again eye adjustment effect that adds a great deal to the realism on the London Circuit. Maybe Rockstar needs to ask them how they did it.
@MarmiteToast - Naughty boy - You do know there's going to be a whole shed load of people trying that tonight. Me, I'll be disappointed if the game doesn't take it in it's stride - 'Who's this then?' 'A prostitute' 'Ohhh, Niko, I always wanted to try a threesome'.
Paris, because you know she's miffed they didn't include her on 'I'm Rich'.
But, Dan want you want to do is obscure - I work in a large IT department and no-one I know uses their PC to directly watch videos on their TV. Those that do download stuff and want to watch it on their nice big telly's generally do so by either streaming it via a media client, like a PS3 or XBOX, or by burning them to DVD. Probably because both solutions are fairly simple and far neater than having the PC / Laptop hooked up under the TV. Or even pointing a video camera at your monitor. And to be honest, until HD became common, the image on a TV was no match for even a fairly cheap monitor, which was actually the main disappointment for me when I tried it with the first card I bought that supported S-Video output.
IPlayer? You want to run a flash based stream up onto a big screen? As for the P2P version - surely the DRM still allows you to use a DLNA server to stream it to a media hub? It would certainly save you from having to fumble behind the TV and plug in the laptop in every time you forgot to record a programme?
The Dual monitor support seen in windows / mac was probably driven by two separate things - traveling reps wanting to use a projector or big screen to show those lovely powerpoint slide shows, and those MS Flight Sim enthusiasts from years ago who always wanted a triple monitor set-up(I used to be one of those).
So the card manufacturer's ensured the drivers they created for Microsoft and Apple systems had working multiple monitor support (after all its a function of the video card not the OS is it not?). I can imagine Apple and Microsoft were more than happy to extend their configuration applets to take advantage of this
Again, I see you backed away from trying to help persuade the card manufacturers to work with the community to ensure that good multiscreen driver support extends to X windows too? But thats the shill's base argument isn't it?. Theres no market for linux to do X, Y or Z, so why should manufacturers waste time working on it. If someone, such as yourself, who is happy to post such detailed comments on site such as this, claims they can't be bothered to feed their issues back up to people in the community and the manufacturers so it can be addressed and fixed properly, can you perhaps see why some of us would suspect your motives?. Especially when you then try to extend that to saying Linux is completely unfit for general desktop use as a result.
Here, I'll give you an example that I think is probably less of an obscure requirement than running a TV from a laptop, and probably more relevant to Joe Public. The SLI or Crossfire dual card setup, much coveted by hardcore gamers. If you buy such a system, yet find that it doesn't bring the claimed performance benefit and is often unstable, who do you blame? Microsoft? Or the card manufacturer for writing crap drivers? Who regularly gets slammed by the gaming community for this currently? Not Microsoft.
To say that Linux distro's should all say they are unfit for use by the Joe Public, just because trying to set up a slide show might take a little work is FUD. By the same token, I can bet most of the El Reg readership has seen a manager having to fumble around to get a presentation going on a windows laptop, so maybe Microsoft should also stop saying windows is fit for Joe Public by your standards. I'm sure my outfit doesn't have all the clueless PHB's in the world.
As I said, I've used Linux on the desktop for over 10 years, with probably less issues than I've had with windows over the same time.
As for Linux advertising that it doesn't support multi screen setup. I don't think I've ever seen it given as a reason to try linux. Similarly, I don't think I've come across any Windows advertising material that specifically highlights this feature. I might have seen it pushed as feature by a video card manufacturer, but then they always instruct you to install their drivers as soon as you fit the card, to allow you to access all wonderful features you shelled out for!
In real world terms I don't think the dual monitor support in linux, would be something Joe Public would have high on their list and I certainly don't think it comes close to all the issues being raised with Vista. And honestly, I don't think Joe Public cares, or is even aware of most the issues that cause people such as myself to move away from using Windows. I bet you'll have more joy, getting the the X-windows devs to look into sorting your multiple monitor support, than you will waiting for Microsoft to change it's spots.
Surprised the rootkit wasn't mentioned earlier. But then that was their RIAA loving media arm, not the consumer electronics arm. It's been noted on here before, that those two arms of the Sony business seem to work against each other at times.
As for lock-in. Nice to see an AC doing the Microsoft indirection defense of claiming that, actually, its everyone else doing those bad things, never us.
For all those technologies you mentioned, have Sony ever been in a Monopoly position in another market, that allowed it to use the kind of strong arm business tactics with competitors that Microsoft does to force uptake? The fact you feel none of them succeeded, despite some of them being acknowledged as the superior solution, should give you your answer. From what I gather, though, Sony still makes a decent profit of the first two you mentioned in the professional video and audio markets.
The point is that Microsoft is using its windows monopoly to allow it to take a substantial loss, in return (it hopes) for locking the consumer media space in the microsoft mothership. It started with pushing PC games onto Direct X at the expense of openGL, then made sure its 'console' (not much more than a cut down cut down PC, I seem to remember, at at time when Sony, Nintendo et all were still doing custom chip development) was based on that API, allowing PC games to be quickly and easily ported. Maybe now, with the PC games market dying, some of Microsofts PC partners might wake up to the fact that Microsoft is trying an end-run around them in the consumer space. The more features (web etc) that get pushed on to the consoles, the smaller the market for home PC's becomes. Microsoft doesn't care about that too much now, because with the XBOX, they now get the money for the whole bundle, including games licenses and an online subscription, rather than just the OS license. How many times have see seen this before? Office suites? Browsers? The Groklaw site has nice archive page on Microsoft's past behavior for those that are still unsure. What's the games theory for that called?
On the other hand, I don't think its 'candyland' to believe that Sony see the Playstation range as just another consumer range, in a crowded consumer market place, just like their TV's, PC's, camera's, phones, CD and DVD players. As I said, they're a big corporation, so they can never be perfect, but they're nowhere near Microsoft in terms of pure greed.
I only buy Sony gear when I feel its better than the competition for a comparable price. I've bought some recently. Microsoft haven't come close to meeting that criteria for a good while.
I think you'll find there are two main obstacles to getting your non mainstream requirement to work.
A) The hardware manufacturers, who are just finally beginning to accept that Linux may well have a place on the desktop and are beginning to defy Microsoft and work with the community to improve support.
B) The simple fact that what you need for linux to 'just work' in your case, isn't that common, otherwise someone would have already gone through all that hard work for you.
The fact that you feel it's only important enough to rant on here about, and tie it your hatred of all things 'nix and non-gui based, rather than actually do anything really constructive about it says rather more about you and your reasons than you might like.
Linux a couple a years away from being useful? Some of us who've been found it easy to install, configure and use on the desktop for more than 10 years might, quite rightly, take issue. Especially, when all you can rant about is an obscure case, with an easily workaround, while admitting you couldn't even be bothered to try and put some work towards the nice method you'd like, so that everyone else can benefit.
Oh and your claim about the hype for major Unbuntu releases. I can think of big OS company that does goes much further than that. Their last product worked so well, that despite spending after over 6 years in development on it, they're already telling their users that the next version is coming real soon now, and will be even better.
@Gav - Spot on
That said, I have a soft spot for our local PCWorld. They were (as a Byte store around 93) the first big store I could wander into and actually look at hardware and software out on the shelves.
I've bough a couple of PC's from them over the years, when I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of building a new one myself, and in both cases they surprised me by being cheaper than the online alternative. The last one, bought early last year was admittedly a pre-vista XP clearance unit, but I couldn't get any of the the online stores to within £50 of their price for the same config, even including an overpriced PNY graphics card upgrade! The local store had unsurprisingly sold out of it the next day (and they'd dropped the price again), however the next nearest one still had 12 in stock as they hadn't even bothered putting the price on it! Maybe they were hoping to keep them for themselves.
They might also benefit from the fact that our main local 'independent' PC shop is run by an even bigger bunch of cowboys.
The real problem for them, and a lot of the other consumer IT vendors, in my opinion, is that western problem of always needing increasing sales to keep the shareholders happy. I think the bulk of western consumers now have a PC, and unless your interested in new games, that PC is more than adequate for their needs. So for the vast majority of the populace, they're like TVs now - you only replace them when the old one breaks, or when theres a definite step change in technology, such as the move to plasma / LCD. Also, now that they have a PC, they can price and stock check at their own pace from the comfort of their own homes.
At least they seem to have woken up to the fact that they need to drastically change to meet this changed market. Anyone got any confidence they'll get it right?
Hey, if you need automatic multi screen TV support so much, then write a module to do it yourself, or pay for someone who has the skills to do it for you.
One of good things about open source is that once there's a big enough need then the support will come, as is happening now with wifi, despite what appears to be the best efforts of some card manufacturers to stop it. And that support will stay even after said manufacturers have orphaned their products, and moved on.
I've done the PC to TV and Monitor hookup probably a grand total of four times over the 15yrs I've had a PC, and I'm supposedly a geek. So I would imagine Joe Average hasn't even thought about it, even if they know the option exists. So I can see why that might not be a priority for X. Rather, just icing on the cake.
Whenever I connect a new PC to a new monitor / TV , I always make sure I have the manual handy to make sure that the best supported resolution / refresh rate / colour depth is chosen, including the time recently when I tried the families laptop on our shiny new wide screen LCD TV. Maybe its because I'm old, but if I'd tried it with the Kubuntu install on said laptop, I wouldn't of found it such a bind to have to copy and edit a configuration to match the values from that manual. Typing, on a PC, yeah I know, how old fashioned - I made this comment by dragging and dropping text from other peoples comments, as I'm sure you did with yours.
Moreover, if the GPU / Monitor / TV doesn't report what they support correctly, isn't that just a symptom of the manufacturers either not following a standard (VGA, SVGA, XVGA or whatever it is now) or not releasing the drivers / specifications needed to work with their devices.
As you feel so strongly about it, I feel your the ideal candidate to be the FOSS representative that liaises with those companies and persuades them to supply the necessary details or drivers, and to lead the configuration tool writing effort. I'm sure all in the community will thank you, as they have Mr Shuttleworth for his sterling efforts.
Guess you missed my 'I certainly don't believe in benevolent corporations' comment. I'm sadly old enough to not expect Sony to be whiter than white in everything.
However, I would have trouble believing any of their senior people would throw chairs in a meeting and proclaim they want to 'f**kin kill Toshiba'.
Being miffed at a gaming site, because they went against your wishes and printed a rumour, is hardly in the same league now is it? And they were back on speaking terms in short order.
As for Lik-sang? Weren't they originally sued by ALL the console makers over their mod-chips? Then they decided it would be a good idea to get into the grey import business. Hey, even Tesco's have been burnt by that one. Whatever your feelings about its benefits to consumers, you have to acknowledge that under the current laws it's a dodgy area of business to get into with some substantial risks. They certainly weren't a Sony competitor at the same level as say Toshiba, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Nokia or Microsoft which was my point.
The microsoft mentality as echoed by it fan boi / shills
Win at all costs, We must leave no competitor standing, there can be only one winner - and it won't be the consumer ...
The article here tells us Sony is happy with the ongoing sales of the PlayStation product range, including all THREE versions currently in production. Also that they're still selling a healthy number of their last generation product.
For once the idiot fan boi's with their '360 is better, its only a blue ray player' bleating seem to have shut up pretty smartish.
Perhaps those fan boi's might like to step back and remember that Sony is a very large consumer electronics company used to selling into a multitude of markets with a multitude of competitors. They would appear to be happy so long as they capture a profitable percentage of that market and have always tended to pitch themselves towards the luxury end of the market, as BMW used to.
Contrast that with the embrace, extend, extinguish business practices of Microsoft and their loss leading entry into the console market in an attempt create more of their loved consumer lock-in. And a monopoly is good for who?
Do you expect their to be only one brand of fizzy drink? One brand of TV? One car manufacturer? No?
Then maybe you might understand why Sony has been happy playing the long game, and unlike Microsoft they don't feel the need to 'f**kin kill' the competition.
I certainly don't believe in benevolent corporations, but have always found Sony consumer gear to be extremely good quality, usually worth the slight premium you sometimes might have to pay. And thats why I always put them at the top of my list when looking at any shiny new toy. Microsoft? They haven't made a decent product since the v.2 mouse, so are always at the bottom of the list, if they manage to get on it at all.
Which probably explains why they so desperately need their name to be the only one on the list!
Sorry mate, but your reply still fits the standard Microsoft Troll MO.
The funny thing is that you'll find far more trolls jumping in with 'They're crap, I tried them, don't touch it' in the comment section of any article about any of Microsoft's main competitors ( Linux, Sony and Apple, for example) than anything the other way around. And strangely enough the phrase 'astroturf' was coined in relation to actions of which company again?
Again, I found it amusing that you felt the need to regurgitate the 'non-profession developers' line that Microsoft so loves to tie to Linux, in a comment section about Microsoft's latest screw-up. And you didn't mention that you had a relative suffering the issue at hand in your first rant did you?
Wait - you claim to use Linux as a server - but I would have thought developing a highly stable server OS takes more (paid) professionalism and hard work than a simple desktop OS? Surely, you should be using Microsoft Server, by your own logic?
Nice to see it's still not Microsoft's fault in your mind, even though it now appears they were aware of the issue four years ago and could have incorporated a fix into the online update version of the SP.
Real issue, or cornered Microsoft Troll, going for the sympathy vote - I'll let the readers decide.
My, My, and you claim to be a serious linux user ....
Linux Live CD (of your choice), copy friends data to a spare USB drive / DVD. Then you can safely do a re-install. If the partitions are unreadable, you might get away with doing a quick(non-destructive) format if you know the exact sizes they should be. I've had some luck resurrecting partitions by doing that.
At least your friend has had it underlined to them the necessity of having decent data backups. You claim to have problems with Ghost too (Oops, its created by those lovely highly paid programmers you love, so it musty be good surely? Or is it simply that it's not Microsoft?). I can't believe that if the data was so important, the pair of you couldn't be bothered to wait for a simple drag 'n' drop of the data to a USB drive to finish, or even shell out the £50 for 250GB one.
Hey, I know the two day reinstall of all the windows apps and settings will be a pain, compared to 30 minute linux install, but just think how nice and clean the registry will be afterwards. Or you can wait for Microsoft to ship a fix.
Oh, and I love the way that you have a go at my attitude, after you used the old 'geeks in bedroom' shtick when referring to linux. Your original comment is a rant against linux and mac, triggered by the fact you and windows screwed up. You are the one that has the attitude problem, mate. Nice to see you bite.
Really, you'd be better off directing your ire at those nice highly paid windows developers, that caused this, rather than the OS that might get your friend out of hot water. Of course, that is, if your not just shilling / trolling - I see you turned up in the Fedora comments with the same 'stick to XP' message even after it's supposedly burned you so bad.
@TimM - Bill, give it a rest with the out of date FUD will ya
How about getting that group of highly paid employee's and partners, to write a decent chipset detection routine, as this appears to be the issue here. Something that either the SP or the original image should have been able to use to put the problem to bed.
As an example, a while ago I had a motherboard die on me, resulting in the purchase of new motherboard and a new processor, moving to AMD from Intel. Moved my dual boot hard-drive over to it. Windows just up and died as expected, and required a completely fresh install. Linux on the other hand, suprised me by noting that the only thing wrong with the current install was some driver mismatches and I was able to login to my original profile in less than 15 mins, with all my user data intact.
I also have a 'built for windows' Sony VAIO laptop that happily dual boots linux - no wifi, touchpad, webcam or other hardware issues. No kernel recompiles or anything needed, but then I've never had to do one for an install in over 10 years of using linux, going back to SuSE 6.
And finally, we can tell your another sad shill / troll anyway, as you felt the need to fall back to the other tired old line of linux coders working in their bedrooms. Most good IT people know that the majority of linux developers work for large companies who have a vested interest in open source nowadays. You know, like IBM, Google, Sun, Novell, Red Hat and Oracle.
Oops, I brought everyones attention to some of your real competitors - better get my asbestos suit on quick.
Yeah, the regular Microsoft shills who find Sony, Apple and Linux a threat to their manhood, were a little slow on getting their 'turfing up to speed on this one.
Must have been having a long lunch down the pub. Tut tut, Bill and Steve won't be to pleased.
You must be looking at some expensive shops then, as quick look on dabs puts that system at least £200 more than the current 40GB PS3, even using the cheapest build your own options - and thats excluding the monitor!
Still a nice a system, bet it keeps you house nice and warm.
One of the main reasons I ended up with a PS3 was that I got sick of shelling out another £100-150 quid on a new graphics card every year, just to play the latest games at a decent frame-rate, without having to turn all the detail off.
I did notice they've got an MSI 8800GTS for £90, but as it's nearly half the price of the other 8800GTS cards I wonder what's wrong with it ...
OK, I'll bite - you are bill gates and I claim my £5.
Yet another desperate sound bite, kicking a Microsoft competitor, as they start to move back ahead of Microsoft.
Only 100,000 difference in sales, despite the promise of some exclusive DLC and a 16 month head start in actual console sales. And the figures don't include the bundles yet, so they could well be closer.
I can guess which company is more worried - oh and have Sony actually stopped competing against themselves and discontinued the PS2 yet?
Still, as others have commented, Take 2 shot themselves in the foot a little by not ensuring there was adequate stock. It might have helped in keeping the hype going a little, but they may well have hit that 1 million sales if they'd actually got some in the shops - there were none to be had round here until Friday, if you hadn't pre-ordered.
Sorry, but you MO fits the trolls earlier in this thread and most of the others on linux, apple and sony, both here and on other sites. The straw that broke the camels back?
Anyway apologies, I have a KUBUNTU install, that was 7.10 until the weekend just passed. I upgraded it to 8.04 via the adept updater tool, and I still have the options I mentioned under the System Settings option in Kubuntu. Perhaps a chance to step away from Gnome, and try KDE desktop out? voodoo is still listed as one of the supported driver options - I had a brief look - and its a trip down memory lane to see all the still supported manufacturers and cards. Sad to think they've all been squeezed out by the big two ( or three? )
Aw, Mark hadn't you realised he's one of those Microsoft loving trolls that sadly infect too many places on the net these days.
Anyway, You gotta love his creative mind tho - a work PC with three video cards ( AGP and PCI!) and five monitors. Yeah, right.
Oh, and Power, in the unlikely event you are telling the truth and not just recycling a problem pulled from an ancient forum archive, the system is taking the safe option of setting the video system to SVGA as it doesn't recognise the card / monitor. Perhaps you could try pressing the administrator button, at the bottom right hand of the locked dialog, and supplying your user password. This will allow you to mess with the settings all you want. Just make sure you know what resolution / refresh rates / colour depths the card / monitor combination do actually support ...
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