2914 posts • joined Tuesday 25th March 2008 12:38 GMT
The only models they offered were cripple, not marketed and hidden on their website. MS probably told them to do that to so that they could continue to say that sales of Linux boxes weren't worth it.
But that wasn't really my point.
They should be compelled by law to offer a "no OS" option. What we have now is more like an MS led cartel.
In a few years time...
...it will be an "internet license" or something and cost £10 or more (on top of your ISP contract). The money (like most taxes) will not be hypothecated and will simply keep MPs in champagne and fois gras.
You read it here first.
@What's wrong with bipedal locomotion?
"and everyone can do it."
You sure about that?
The Segway looks fun 'n all and the self-balancing tech is definitely cool. I can (maybe) see a use in warehouse etc, if it is more efficient than a buggy...but everywhere else? Don't see it. For those who can walk...get a good pair of shoes/boots and walk!
What is this Segbike like under hard braking? Think I stick to wheels front 'n rear ta muchly. Might interest the NABD though!
MS told them to
As a consumer, it is not possible to by a PC from any of the major OEMs without buying Windows.
I know you might find a page or two should that, say, HP sell a SUSE laptop; but you can't actualy buy it.
Offering one crappy netbook (as Dell does) is not an option either.
It's time the EU looked into this and forced the OEMs, at the very least, to offer a no OS option.
Moan all you want, but we are just going to have to take ACTA up the wrong 'un.
Civil Servant: Minister, here is the first ACTA related bill for you to sign and make law.
MP: Some of this seems a bit off; a bit much.
CS: Negotiations went on for years minister. Everyone agrees.
MP: Oh, why wasn't I there?
CS: Secret negotiations minister.
MP: So who was there?
CS: The stakeholders minister and few representatives for the interested countries.
MP: "Stakeholders"? What, members of the public?
CS: No minister, the MAFIAA and other groups.
MP: So why do I have to sign this?
CS: It's all been agreed. The whole world agrees on it. if you don't sign it, we will never get an agreement like this again. You'll be against free trade. No one will trade with us.
MP: And what will it mean?
CS: Continued profits for the members of MAFIAA et al. But you can dress it up as "Less pirates selling porn to kiddies". The Daily Hate will love that.
MP: Won't there be public outcry?
CS: Not really, we'll do it bit by bit. Then in a few years we will just say the new ACTA bill simply harmonises and streamlines what we already have in place.
MP: Really can't see the public liking this.
CS: As you often say minister "Fuck the proles, show me the money". You will, of course be invited to all the upcoming ACTA conferences around the globe. First class travel, the works. I am sure you could be head of a few steering committees or the director of a consultancy related to this as well. You won't even have to declare it as an "interest"; I'll see to that.
MP: Jolly good! Where do I sign?
Better marketing, that's all.
As the first post points out, even the "Super" key has that weird, squiggly squares symbol on it.
It's probably just some money men (who know diddly about computers) bought the rights to the name, bought a license to distribute and now have this "new" Commodore.
Maybe it will be a success, maybe it won't.
...a good for cooling. And. Err. Umm. Yeah.
One of these "PC in keyboard" things with some kind of wireless connection to a TV/monitor would be good. You could then hide that tower in the closet and have it do all the heavy-lifting (transcoding, broadcast recording, media serving etc).
I want more money so I can buy more toys...
@Sarah - Is it better
Now, now petal. Do be a love and don't get your feathers all ruffled. It's just the trolls trying to pick a fight, flower. Alright me dear?
But then you will feed them! :o)
[Did I squeeze enough colloquialisms in?]
Umm..."female" is a noun (and an adjective). I guess it's a bit formal (sounds like a police report, "And then the female in question did....").
What say we call her "the woman with the whoppers"?
[I am soooooo going to get banned!]
It's all lies! How do we know? "[Laker] pressed a button to take a revealing photo". See? LIES!
We were told by our MPs and the manufacturer that these machines cannot take pictures, so this bint is lying.
She must be.
Our MPs wouldn't lie to us, would they?
Start making the outer casing of fibre cables with a "No copper" symbol.
I get these...
...even though I am registered with TPS. They are a total pain in the arse. And the bastards block their number too - that should be illegal for any company using auto-dialers. If I knew their number I could report it and request a block (at the offender's expense).
This fine is pointless as we all know it will not be applied and it is just to easy for these companies to avoid any censure (mostly because the have enough wonga to grease the right palms).
@Mods hate me
No apology forthcoming, there is still no link to a page where a consumer can buy a PC from a major OEM either naked or with a non-MS OS. I know there are landing pages for business customers, but they lead no where if you want to buy on-line.
Dell's singular offering does not count as a real choice in my book.
That leaves Joe Schmoe with no viable choice other than Windows (tech savvy users can always get what they want (either going to a niche retailer or DIY), but I am not thinking about them).
Don't misunderstand; I want to be proven wrong, I want people to have a choice, I want to issue that apology/thanks for getting a link.
It's not happened yet.
And yes, I have been looking too. I can find Linux systems from other sources, but again that is not what I am talking about. I am pretending to be the average consumer going to the "household names". When you do that it Windows or nothing.
HTML, dotNet, Java etc; these are tools. When I hire a joiner, they do not charge me for their saws etc (well, not directly). They charge me for materials, but mostly they charge me for knowing how to use said materials, what materials and how to approach a piece of work.
That's what I pay for.
If a joiner said I needed to pay $n for a special saw because it was the only thing that would cut a certain material, I'd be off getting a new joiner!
It's a different (better?) way of thinking and working.
@Not so smart, are ya?
Thanks for proving me right. Those links go no where. Yes, the first page shows SUSE for some notebooks. Now, click on the clink for one of them (say the 4710s), SUSE no longer an option. So then you select "All models". Still no SUSE.
I can't find the page where I can actually BUY this laptop.
AND this is appears to be a business device.
This is exactly what I was going on about - thank you again for helping me prove it.
Caught you out Steve.
I just did as you suggested - no results (beyond a few components).
C'mon Steve 44, put your money where your mouth is and show me the hard links (UK site, consumer device, any Linux distro, direct from HP, Sony, Tosh, ANY major OEM).
Or I can only conclude you are in serious error with reality.
Show me the links
C'mon, so me the links. I ahve asked time and again on here for links to the ACTUAL PRODUCT and NO ONE can provide them
I know the HP is a lie, because I have tried. Yeah, you'll get Google results but they go no where, or they vanish into the quagmire of USA business account handling. Urgh. UK site, consumer device; prove it.
I would LOVE to be wrong.
"Its like buying a new car, then a week later asking them to take the seats back because you've decided you don't like the colour, and have found the ones you want at another dealer."
Another bad analogy. The problem in the consumer PC market is that all the seats are blue, for every major manufacturer. THERE IS NO REAL CHOICE! Dell offer NO REAL CHOICE (one shitty netbook does not count). Nor to HP, Toshiba, Sony etc.
I'll type this slowly so people can keep up.
...let the consumer make it. Anyway, the burn in tests will be done from the "support" partition they image on to the drives. Only a complete moron would remove that as tech. support will want you to have gone through some tests to get error codes etc for hardware issues.
Still no need for the machine to be infected with a full Windows deployment.
...ONE crippled netbook. That's it. THAT IS NOT A CHOICE!
And it is the previous LTS.
When I can select (just about) ANY Dell product and choose a non-Windows OS as an option (with appropriate cost saving) then we will have choice. Until that time THERE IS NO REAL CHOICE.
Now kindly shut-up and stop astroturfing for MS.
A very bad analogy
Audi will have designed your mirrors and written a spec on how they should work. A contractor (or Audi) will then have made them, and the components that make them up. Same goes for every single piece of the car. Audi write the spec and either make the part, someone else makes the part or someone finds an off-the-shelf part that meets the spec.
This is not the same with PCs.
MS are demanding that you have their OS on any PC. Beyond a few very small players, you cannot buy a PC from an OEM without Windows. If I go from Dell to HP to Toshiba to Sony to Acer, I am forced to take Windows. In the car world if I hate Ford engines (say) I can buy Toyota and get a Toyota engine. You just cannot do this in the PC marketplace (business accounts are different, we're not talking about them). It is not possible to choose another vendor and body-swerve the MS Tax.
If you want to stick with the car analogy, consider the radio. There's usually a choice, heck BMW used to spec sans radio! That's the kind of choice we want and need in the PC marketplace.
You only get choice from the minor vendors (e.g Morgan in the car world). They can and will meet whatever spec you desire, but you may have to pay a higher price or suffer some inconvenience (less support, less locations, longer delivery time etc etc; not always the case though).
Dell are, IMHO, wrong not to offer the refund.
MS are IMHO wrong to force vendors to sell a PC with Windows, vendors should be allowed the "no OS".
People who bash others for wanting the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE are wrong.
The USA does not have the balls to step-up to this, so let's see the EU do what's right for consumers and ensure a fairer marketplace.
Cue the MS shills...
They should. (I can rise to the same level of argument.)
What is the reason for your stance? Mine is that we need consumer choice and we don't have that at the moment. The major OEMs all force you to have Windows and to pay the MS Tax.
...System67 (USA, but they will ship I think) and Frostbite Systems (USA only). And probably any semi-decent PC shop where they employees actually know their stuff. They don't need to know Linux per se, they can just give you the naked PC.
They will support enough HTML5 to crow about how much they work hard for standards. But not enough to actually do anything. Cue web devs/designers tearing their remaining hair out trying to get stuff to work in IE9 like it does in Opera, Firefox, Safari, Chrome... A bit like IE6 really (which we'll *STILL* have to support anyway...)
MS will slowly steer people towards Silverlight as it is more "feature rich" and "cross-platform", thus locking companies ever more into the MS world and preventing competition.
Extend (...perhaps Evade or Exchange in this case?)
We have been here before. We should remember our history (actually, our present. I'm looking at you, IE6).
Either they get with the program and support the standards in their entirety (c'mon, if ickle Opera can do it, surely it's not beyond the might of MS; hell, they could even just use some FOSS modules) or it is all just PR bullshit.
There is no proof...
...and we should not leap to some complex and fantastical conclusion when something more prosaic (and as yet, unknown) may be lurking. Waking dreams, weather phenomenon, etc. The universe is strange enough without inventing more crap.
As for the price gibe....you did see the ":oP" didn't you?
3 times the price?
Not really. When I looked at them I'd say they were (give or take) about right, but the tag appears to be about 1.5 times the cost of a similar Windows laptop (it will vary from OEM to OEM). You have to consider the build quality (which I am told is good) and thus discount all the low-end makers (e.g. Dell), then you have to consider the nVidia graphics card and other hardware spec (and discount entry-level machines) and finally consider the after sales support (which I am told is good).
So maybe you do appear to pay "over the odds", but you get what you pay for to a large extent I think.
I didn't by a Mac in the end...I decided I didn't need a laptop after all.
There are no ghosts, spirits, phantasms, aliens*, alien spacecraft*, no alien abductions or any of that crap. It's all in their head.
Unexplained != Trans-dimensional Beings from the Dark Beyond (or whatever)
I guess if you are deluded enough to believe in that crap, you are deluded enough to pay through the nose for a basic laptop. :oP
*Well, not here anyway
H.264 is an open standard and there is hardware acceleration available for it. Using Ogg would be a retrograde step.
Sure, you have to bend of and take it up the wrong 'un from the Patent Pixies; but is that so bad?
Hmm...why yes....it is.
Not a pass
You do understand that 100/100 is not a pass, don't you?
If you don't understand that, i suggest you go and read how ACID3 actually works.
"When IE9 lands in a year or so, it will have the features similar to those that current browsers have already had for about a year".
i.e. "IE9 will be two years behind the curve"
It's all just a local check anyway
You can't refer back to the main db in cases like this. Can you imagine the infrastructure? *GLOBALLY*? And you'd need wireless+portable, with a response time in seconds. So most readers will simply use a local check, trusting the card.
WTF is the point in the card then?
My (slightly tin-foil-hat) opinion is: social control.
'Hillier said that the "9/11 had put the cast on the ID card" about terrorism'
Hello, Hillier you chump. This is reality calling. The 9/11 terrorist travelled on THEIR OWN PRIMARY ID (passports). If the USA had had ID cards then they would have still gone ahead as, despite making no attempt to hide who they were, the were not stopped by the security services.
So how the bloody hell will ID cards help? The security services couldn't even track those guys by their passports numbers! FFS!
Britons - rise up and overthrow these threats to our nation!
That's how they do it. In theory at least.
Appeal to Common Practice
"As a point of democratic principle, how can something that most of us do be illegal?"
Your argument is an example of "Appeal to Common Practice" and therefore fallacious.
I am not disagreeing that copyright laws and the punishments are a crock of shit that favour the BPI/RIAA over the artist/consumer, but you need to construct a better argument to stand a chance.
How about "The proposals entrench a business model that is slowly becoming out of date and creates artificial barriers to trade. This stifles innovation, the economy and start-up business to the benefit of the incumbent players and reduces the ability of workers within the industry ("artists") to earn a fair wage, expect for a few big-names. It should not be up to the state to protect someone's business model (or protect them from their poor business choices) except in absolute extremis where the stability of the state itself is affected. The state should ensure that its populace are served by businesses that work for that populace and provide them the services they want, rather than assist business to work against the wishes of the populace."
1 - Get rid of DVD region-locking (regions are fine, languages and all, just no locking please).
2 - Allow me to format shift for my own use (not legal in the UK).
3 - Allow free trade (grey imports etc, this will reduce price-fixing).
I am sure you can think of more.
For us, maybe
For normal users, no way. And there is the after-sales support to consider.
You need to be able to go the the Dell (say) website, select the machine, choose the OS, spec it and then buy. This just isn't happening and until it does Linux will stay in it's sub-1% niche.
This is coming to the EU...
...and it's called "ISA" (Intelligent Speed Adaptation), it used to be called EVSC (External Vehicular Speed Control). The idea is that it will become impossible to break the speed limit. The car will only let you run up to the limit, no more. You will also be tracked (the car has to know where you are to figure out the limit).
Of course, this would lead to a fall in all that lovely revenue from speeding fines, so may only go ahead in some watered-down form. What is also proposed is for the police to be able to issue a signal and your vehicle would automatically shut-off. Nice.
It is also married to lane charging and other forms of state observation/taxation.
And you can thank your freedom-hating Labour voters for it!
Obey the machine, citizen!
Always the problem with Ubuntu
If you stick with the default repros, you'll be on 3.5.8 until Canonical update them.
I've not bothered to look and see if Mozilla provide a repo for Firefox. I have added repos for other software where Canonical don't keep up-to-date (but then I have to personally accept the risk of things not quite working).
One other problem with Flash...
...is the DRM. Just look at the iPlayer. There's a few "third party" apps (even ones the BBC supported and promoted!) that respected the rules about how the content could be streamed/stored and they cannot be used any more because of the RTMP bullshit in Flash.
This would be easy to get around, but illegal due to the DMCA bullshit (and similar bullshit laws in Europe).
This is, basically, caused by Flash IMHO (well, more correctly, Adobe and the BBCtards). And it's all bullshit.
It's the same crap that has foisted DVD regions on use, allowed Sony-BMG to think it was "OK" to install a root-kit and so on.
A second problem with Flash is that it is not truly cross-platform. Flash on Linux sucks ass. Really. I will agree that Linux is a (very) niche market, but if you are lording yourself about as a "standard" you'd better bloody well work across ALL platforms (and that also includes simialr performance across ALL browsers).
This neatly segways into the third problem with Flash. Obviously Adobe can't do all the above, they are a bottleneck. Flash is not open, no one else can help them. There are projects that try to ape Flash (e.g. Gnash) and they have one hell of a time. If Flash was open, the individual OS/browser teams could make sure it works correctly on their platform. No bottleneck.
This would also solve problems one and two at a stroke and the world would be a happy place.
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