* Posts by Tim Worstal

914 posts • joined 12 Feb 2008

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So how should we tax these BASTARD COMPANIES, then?

Tim Worstal
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Re: Individual taxes

" If corporations can enjoy individual liberties, then I don't see why they should get away without paying individual taxes..."

The argument here is that only real human beings can actually pay taxes. Alternatively, any and all taxes mean that the wallet of some live human being gets lighter. There ain't anyone else here but us, after all. So, we can charge taxes to legal persons (corporations) but it's always some real person (ie, human) who really pays it.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Fair Tax?

Won't work, not a chance. I've had this argument directly with the campaign. They insist that it should be a sales tax when it needs to be a VAT. But they just will not have it as a VAT.

The basic idea, fund everything through taxing consumption not incomes, yup, great. A grant to make sure it's not regressive, OK. The rate won't be quite what they say it will be but that's minor.

However, there's something we're pretty sure about concerning sales taxes. If you only levy the tax the once, at the final point of sale to the consumer, you can't really get the rate much above 10% or so without having vast evasion problems. They want it to be 24.5% (I think?) and to do that you need a VAT. That is, you collect little bits of it all the way down the production and value chain. Each stage reclaiming from the next the amounts it has paid on its own inputs. In essence, you use that supplier chain as an (unpaid!) enforcer of everyone collecting the tax.

If you've 25% once only, at the point of sale, then it's waaaay to easy to run the long firm fraud, just as one example. Run a business flogging computers, say. Stay legal for a few months. Then buy in a vast amount that you're not paying the Fair Tax on. Because you're in business, only final consumers pay that tax. Now flog that kit out at 15% off the price you paid for it plus the Fair Tax. You're 15% cheaper than anyone else can possibly be. You sell masses. At a 10% margin, and you then skip out before sending the cheque off to the taxman. You've paid the supplier, but not the taxman.

In a VAT system you cannot do this because the bloke who sold to you has charged you VAT initially.

So, a 25% sales tax, instead of a VAT, makes the illegal market 25% cheaper than the legal one. We're pretty sure that you can get away with 10% or so as a sales tax. Not enough incentive for people to really try rooking the system. 25% is too much. Massive and widespread evasion. Thus it must be a VAT at that rate, not a sales tax.

I've explained this at length to the campaign and got back simple blank refusal to either believe it or think of it being a VAT instead of a sales tax. My supposition is therefore that they're people more interested in running a campaign that gets some funding rather than people really proposing a decent change in the law.

Moi, cynical?

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Google versus the EU: Sigh. You can't exploit a contestable monopoly

Tim Worstal
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Re: Nice try Tim

"Capitalism is supposed to be about a constant churn of creative destruction and fierce competition"

No, that's markets, not capitalism.

"I don't think Adam Smith would back your arguments."

Interesting, because that's what much of Wealth of Nations is about, the way in which markets temper capitalism.

"Yet your assumption seems to be that tech is a special case where global economies of scale lead to inevitable monopoly or oligopoly and that we should simply accept it."

Not inevitable, although exploring the manner in which global economies of scale might exist in tech is pretty much 50% of what Krugman got his Nobel for.

"Please read Jaron Lanier and come back with a proper capitalist analysis rather than an ode to rent-seeking."

I've read as much of Lanier as I can stomach I'm afraid. Given that he doesn't seem to have the first clue about either markets or capitalism.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Off topic

A few points.

1) I am not an economist: no advanced degree in the subject, never worked as one etc. So, not "an economist". Just someone who knows rather a lot about it.

2) Party politics isn't the reason I'm here at El Reg. It's despite, not because in fact. So perhaps elsewhere would be the right place for this discussion.

3) All political parties are coalitions. No one likes all policies of any party. I have one over riding political thought, that the EU itself is a very bad idea. That's before we even get to the question of whether the UK should be in or out. I'm thus with the political party that reflects my monomania.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: So....

True, it gets more complicated with dual facing markets. Which is why the last Econ Nobel went to Jean Tirole, who explains these things.

Now, if anyone thinks the Commish is up to date with such economic research then I've a bridge in Brooklyn they might be interested in.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: So....

Excellent, so you agree with me then?

"In other words: don't worry about monopolies, the free market will sort them out. However, with a monopoly, there is no longer any free market in existence. Ergo, no sorting can occur.

Examples are poor. The Chinese rare earth affair can be discounted as it was clearly not a monopoly in any recognizable form. Being the sole supplier in a market is not sufficient to have a monopoly."

There's two separate questions here.

1) What is a monopoly?

2) Is Google one?

You have come to the same answer I have on 1). There's a difference between being sole supplier and being a monopoly. We just use different words for it, me using the formal jargon of "contestable".

Good, so there we agree.

On 2), we disagree, is Google a contestable or non-contestable one. OK, no worries, opinion journalism would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.

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London man arrested over $40 MILLION HFT flash crash allegations

Tim Worstal
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Re: Let me get this straight

We do have evidence of an FTT. Stamp duty on shares. And the IFS tested the effects of it some years back. Makes the economy smaller, reduces total tax revenues by doing so.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Let me get this straight

1) Wouldn't make any difference to this. He wasn't trading in shares, but in the index contracts.

2) The argument against such an FTT is very simple. It would shrink the economy overall. My one and only published peer reviewed paper is on this very subject. And the proof of the contention that it would shrink the economy is in the EU's own report into the matter. Where it says that.

Rather amusingly that paper of mine was used in evidence to the House of Lords subcommittee that looked into the Robin Hood Tax. That's not the amusing part: someone else submitted as evidence to the same inquiry a blog post of mine where I'd been saying much the same. Not sure how often blogs posts are used as evidence in the HoL......

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El Reg assembles mighty Quid-A-Day Nosh Posse

Tim Worstal
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"Well said, sir. As I write this, we've already raised a splendid £360 for Malaria No More UK, before the Live Below the Line challenge has even kicked off. This bodes well for our 2015 fundraising total, and we invite readers to chip in a few quid in support of the cause."

A little bit more I think, once El Reg's invoice paying department kicks into action?

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BuzzFeed: We don't pull 'articles' due to advertiser pressure VERY OFTEN

Tim Worstal
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Re: advertising is pointless.

In some of my work elsewhere Google News is a major source of traffic. Spot what's going on there, write something, see if it gets traffic from Google News (yes, I know, I know).

And those nonsense word soup ones, they're actually quite interesting. What they're doing (and anyone want to join in on recreating this little scammette*?) is:

1) Checking G News for what stories are being covered.

2) Scraping one or two (usually just the one in fact) off whatever site is being displayed on G News.

3) Running the scraped content through Google Translate.

4) Running it back into English again.

5) Publish and gain thousands to tens of thousands in traffic.

Quite cute: the only difficulty in the process seems to be getting accepted as a G New source site in the first place.

* I tend not to actually partake of scammettes but I am rather an aficionado of them.

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Mt Gox LEAKED Bitcoin for years before heist, says WizSec

Tim Worstal
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This has all been most amusing to historians of money and banking. The past 5 years seem to have had compressed into them any and every monetary and banking scam that the human race has ever managed to invent.

A decent history of John Law or perhaps the state licensed banks of the American West would provide an excellent guide to what's happening in e-currencies.

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So why exactly does almost ALL tech live in Silicon Valley?

Tim Worstal
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Re: RE: Microeconomics does pretty well with testable predictions.

This is known as "macroeconomics having microfoundations". And the answer is a bit tangled.

For when you try to build your macroeconomic model upon what we think is right about microeconomics, it turns out that the models don't describe the real world very well. Which leave us with two schools:

1) We need to do better.

2) Let's build our macro models without reference to the micro!

I'm in the third bit, the heresy, that says that macro doesn't work very well so let's not do macro. This is a heresy because it would mean all those economists using macro to work for banks and governments would be out of work.

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Tim Worstal
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No, trust me, I did mean non ferrous. The tungsten, molybdenum and so on, titanium (metal, not oxide) that are added to steel etc. Ferroallys (which are, weirdly, non-ferrous) as well.

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Tim Worstal
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Microeconomics does pretty well with testable predictions. Set the minimum wage to twice the median wage and you'll see lots of unemployment. Just as one example.

Macroeconomics, running the whole economy, rather tougher task. And as below, running an experiment would rather require taking over a few countries and running them for a few decades.

Even here we do know a few things. Don't let M4 fall in your economy, you won't like it if you do. Thus QE recently. But you're right all the same, at least this is the way I look at it, that macroeconomics is largely a specialised branch of history. Micro not so much.

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European Parliament mulls law on use of blood metal in tech

Tim Worstal
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Erm, excuse me....

"Much (all?) of the ore and metals come through commodity markets via brokers and often the real origin isn't traceable."

You do know that I am a commodity broker? Working on the edges of this field? In fact, I've done substantial work with both Cabot and HC Starck (respectively, the US and EU processors of tantalum)?

And absolutely the first thing you get asked is "what's the origin?".

The answer "Dunno" means you get told to fuck off. And they will test the stuff once it arrives so if you've switched labels you will get caught (all mines have different trace elements in them, you can identify which mine by those trace elements, we do have a database of them all and the trace elements and yes, every shipment is tested against it. For every shipment is going to be analysed anyway just so that everyone can see what the buggery is in that ore anyway, so they can work out how to treat it and how much to pay for it).

" the conditions of workers in many other parts of the metal and mineral mining business are pretty grim. Sulphur miners killing themselves by extracting sulphur from live volcano calderas."

That Indonesian volcano is pretty stupid, it has to be said. For every oil refinery produces millions of tonnes of sulphur a year as it extracts it from the crude. Most of them will pay you to take it away too. Indonesia has absurd import rules though, so free sulphur can't actually be imported.

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Tim Worstal
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They can do this sensibly.....HC Starck and perhaps 20 other companies in Europe sign up and say "we don't use blood minerals as feedstock" and we're done. And, given that none of those EU based smelters will use blood minerals as feedstock anyway, they're all signed up to the industry plan not to and even if they weren't, Dodd Frank would make them not use them, this will cost about 3 pence.

Hurrah etc.

I've seen another version of this, from Global Witness (along with Enough Project, the originators of the basic campaign) which would require *every* importer into the EU of *every product* that *could conceivably contain* blood minerals, *however processed*, must audit its global supply chain down however many levels it goes. So, you import, commercially, half a dozen Chinese manufactured sound cards for $50 each and you need to know where the gold plating the connectors came from, the tin for the solder, the Ta in any capacitors (won't be any tungsten in it). Or some landfill Android phones for $30 which have a vibrating alarm: that will have tungsten in it. You now need to know whether that ore came from DRC and if it did, which specific mine it came from. Or a few bars of machine tool steel (which is W heavy).

A complete, total and absolute fucking nightmare.

Guess which version the Greens are pushing for?

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In some ways, dating apps are the anti-internet

Tim Worstal
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Re: Well,

Wasn't Nigel's mate at all before I went to work for the party for a year.

I am vastly, overbearingly, free market and pretty much OK with capitalism (I certainly have no problems with voluntary socialism, from workers coops through to hippie communes). Very classically liberal on social matters. Pretty much a straight out classical liberal in fact.

I'm Ukip because I am convinced that the major political (as opposed to economic) question for the UK is "in or out of the EU?" my answer being out. Not because I'm xenophobic, I actually divide my time between Portugal and the Czech Republic.

But 1) Because I don't think that most Europeans desire that classically liberal state and that there's more chance of the UK having it outside the EU (and one way to achieve something like it is not to stay on any one country too long, see above).

2) I am absolutely certain that the sort of people who actually put themselves up for election to Brussels will never, ever, deliver anything like a classically liberal state.

That's pretty much it really.....

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Tim Worstal
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"Is this not just the mantra of "the market will prevail" applied to human relationships? If I were a cynic, I'd suggest that quite a few of Tim's recent columns involved the application of this precept to matters not traditionally covered by economics."

Gary Becker got the Nobel largely for applying exactly these precepts to families and sex....

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Tim Worstal
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Well,

Ukip's first major economic policy declaration was before the last GE when we said that the personal allowance should rise to the full year full time minimum wage. Actually, my policy that is and the Lib Dems and Tories have since signed up to it. Which I'll take as a bit of a win actually.

But here at El Reg the point about my writing is that it is *despite* the fact that I am a Kipper that I am here, not *because*.

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The Walton kids are ABSURDLY wealthy – and you're benefitting

Tim Worstal
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Re: Fallacy

A 3% net profit margin is excessive now?

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Wealth redistribution

Wealth inequality increasing unhappiness. Well, yes, although it's rather more academic than factual. Just this morning I've seen figures showing that American happiness (ie, number of Americans who say they're happy) has risen since 2009, while we all know that wealth and income inequality have risen as well. So, while the link might be there it's not entirely obvious that it is.

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Tim Worstal
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The French actually have a private system that does this. As a speculation you write a reverse mortgage for, say, some little old widow. Government approves the price. So, you pay € 500 a month (or whatever) for life to the widow, you inherit her apartment when she pops her clogs.It's actually a popular speculation among the bourgeoisie, the lawyers, accountants and doctors.

It does have a problem associated with it. The price is obviously set at actuarial rates. How long do we expect the average 75 year old to live? But actuarial rates depend upon risk pooling. That widow might pop her clogs next year, might live for decades.

As happened to the lawyer who entered such an agreement with a certain Jeanne Calment. Who went on to be the world's oldest person, dying 40 odd years (a guess, the real number is on her Wiki page) after the contract was signed. To the point that the lawyer himself was dead and his widow made the last few years of payments before inheriting the apartment.

People pool risks for a reason......

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Tim Worstal
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Umm, slightly different. They get 1.5% on turnover. A deposit account would get 1.6% on capital. The 1.5% is of a rather larger number than the 1.6% would be....

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Tim Worstal
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Re: The problem

Dunno about "nobody". I was running around screaming blue bloody murder myself.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Wealth redistribution

"If you are right, Tim, and the money only stays in the family for a few generations, then I suppose it makes little difference that the wealth is temporarily concentrated in such a small area; it does eventually get redistributed by the market when a descendant 'pisses it away'. But what worries me is that the current trend in wealth inequality shows no signs at all of abating."

Well, yeah, but. Wealth concentration and wealth concentration in the same families are not actually the same thing. When amongst the richest residents of the UK we have names like Abramovich and Mittal then we're not in fact talking about the same people inheriting the wealth. If it were only De Waldens and Grosvenors, those families who inherited land in London and didn't sell it, then OK, that would be different. Note there's some weight on "only" there.

I'm cool with more taxation of those inheritors (specifically, land, let's have an LVT) but "wealth concentration" and "the same people being wealthy" is not the same thing.

"Take a particular bugbear of mine: unpaid internships. Even in a society where, by and large, the concept of a minimum wage is accepted. it still seems acceptable for wealthy organisations to place a filter on the workforce to ensure that brains and hard work are not sufficient, you need wealth to start with. I'm not sure I find that acceptable, either on an individual or societal level."

One of the things I like (among the many, of course) about our hosts here, El Reg. Internships? Sure, everyone's got to start somewhere. Pay? Yes. Proper pay.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: As usual, I like the Warren Buffett approach

It's a great line for sure. But he is leaving them 8 billion in the standard tax free family trust. After his cash to the Gates fund...

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To defend offshore finance bods looting developing countries of their tax cash

Tim Worstal
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Re: nice one tim....

"The natural end state of capitalism is monopoly or oligopoly."

Mebbe. That's why we need markets, to allow new entrants to challenge said monopoly.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: nice one tim....

"Capitalism is "just" a system of goods and services exchange."

Well, no, not really, and this is a very useful distinction to make. Capitalism is a description of who owns the productive assets in a society. The capitalists, obviously. socialism is also a description of who owns the productive assets: they're owned socially. Different variations of course, could be socially the consumers (the Co Op), the workers (a workers co op, Mondragon say) could be the government (state socialism) and so on.

A "market" is a description of goods and services exchange. As is also a planned economy.

Using these definitions I'm so so as to capitalism/socialism (in more detail, some things work better either way). I'm vehemently pro-market and anti the planned economy.

I also think that the biggest mistake British leftism in general has made has been to fail to make these distinctions. Being anti-capityalist, oh well, but then everyone assumes that this also mean they must be anti-market. And it's just not the same thing at all.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: different topic

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A23+things+we+are+telling+you+about+capitalism&keywords=23+things+we+are+telling+you+about+capitalism&ie=UTF8&qid=1428316242

23 Things We Are Telling You about Capitalism. It's actually a critique of another of Chang's books but these points are covered in it.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: different topic

I've actually written an entire book about it......

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Tim Worstal
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Re: nice one tim....

"Tim's statement about "corporations being people and therefore any tax on them is real money from the wallet of a real person", is the real issue."

Not quite what I said. To clarify. Corporations are legal persons. But all taxes are, ultimately, paid by natural persons. Corporations are not natural persons therefore corporations do not, ultimately, pay tax. The burden of the tax *must* fall on some set of natural people.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: To put it simply....

"US workers have the highest productivity in the world, yet are compensated the worst compared to all the other 1st world nations."

This isn't actually possible. So, fortunately, it's not true. Mean hourly wages in the US are $25 (OK, $24,8x). In the UK £14 or so.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Must be like Quantum Mechanics

Be very careful of the Ta figures. Congo was indeed the supplier of some 8% or so of tantalite, the ore. But as much as 50% (it depends upon the year) of Ta comes from tin slags, not tantalite. But that's a detail.

Undercutting Oz (to the extent that a large mine closed down for a number of years) was not about that slavery no. It's about those deposits being so damn rich. They can be mined with peasant and shovel. And they are, absent that slavery (only a minority of the mines were ever controlled by the military gangs). Quite seriously, the tantalite is just lying about on the surface, maybe under 10 foot of mud. This is why it can be mined by people with bucket and spade.

It's the richness of the deposit. Whether the slavers were there or not, even if it had been world class mining companies exploiting those deposits, the result on the market would have been the same.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Must be like Quantum Mechanics

You're missing the bit I made about minerals. Location specific, resource rents, tax them till the pips squeak. Corporation tax, not location specific, not resource rents, different situation.

Dodging resource rent taxes, bad, dodging corporation tax, good.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Wow.

Nick Shaxson is part of Tax Justice Network, who work very closely with Christian Aid on this point. So it is from the same source, ultimately.

Amusingly, Shaxson was based in Zurich when he wrote that book.....sadly though it was because his partner was working there, not for tax reasons.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: God?

There's another very similar character in a couple of Tom Holt novels as well. But yes, that sorta idea.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Must be like Quantum Mechanics

I agree entirely, this does happen:

"but my lefty gut reaction is that the workers are simply paid as little as the corporations can possibly get away with, and the money spirited away offshore is instead used to increase the rewards to the shareholders and the executives."

But that's the point about my argument. It *assumes* this happens and then goes on to examine the consequences. That capitalists are making out like bandits in this poor economy. So, more capitalists come along to make out like bandits. That increases the amount of capital in the country. That raises productivity and thus wages.

Heck, we can call Marx into evidence here. It's the competition among the capitalists for the profits that can be made from labour that raises wages. Once the reserve army of the unemployed is exhausted then wages will indeed rise as the capitalists vie with each other for access to that labour that makes the profits.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Must be like Quantum Mechanics

Q "Is it a good thing that multinational corporates are dodging corporation tax in developing countries?"

A. "Yes, because it's the workers in those countries who would pay corporation tax if it were collected. Thus tax dodging raises local wages".

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Pumping billions into data centres won't guarantee you an empire

Tim Worstal
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Re: The Laughing Curve?

That's a fascinating statement.

Diamond and Saez.

eml.berkeley.edu/~saez/diamond-saezJEP11opttax.pdf

That's Peter Diamond (Nobel Laureate) and Emmanuel Saez (Likely future Nobel, John Bates Clarke Gold Medal he's already got, sometime collaborator with Piketty) and in that paper they calculate the peak of the Laffer Curve (for both income and capital taxation) for the US economy.

Which is a pretty odd thing for serious economists to do over something that no serious economist considers to be a valid thing.

Might I gently suggest that you might want to revisit your preconceptions in this area?

We could also look into the EU's report into the financial transactions tax (aka Robin Hood Tax). Where they show that the FTT would lower the size of the economy as compared to a future without the tax. To such an extent that total tax revenue would be lower than in the absence of the FTT. Which is exactly what the Laffer contention is: lower tax rates can, sometimes, lead to more revenue.

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Nuclear waste spill: How a pro-organic push sparked $240m blunder

Tim Worstal
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There was an entire ship full of it that went off once as well I think.

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Tim Worstal
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Diesel works better.....although it's slightly tricky to get it well mixed without having it go off a bit early. As a number of now limbless people found out.

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Building a better society from the Czechs' version of Meccano

Tim Worstal
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Re: And....

Sorry, should have added about the mines. The mountains that are today's border are the "Ore Mountains", Erzgebirge or Krusny Hory, dependent upon language. Continental Europe's major sources of tin (as Cornwall was for us) for near a millennium and then later of tungsten. This is actually where the Germanic name for tungsten, comes from, "wolfram". The ore is a mixed cassiterite/wolframite/scheelite, depends upon the mine. Different proportions around the place. And when you process such a mixed ore the tungsten takes a significant portion of the tin with it: it's the wolf that eats the tin.

And I'm here because the five historic mines in the area have some of the highest scandium levels of such ores. And the building I'm sitting in right now is where people first worked out how to extract the Sc from the wastes of the tungsten processing....

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Had the pleasure of working with Russians trained in tne 80s

I was actually working with such guys in 1990 and onwards in Moscow.....we ported "Another World" over from DOS to Windows. Everyone thought it couldn't be done but people who could make rocket systems work on those ZX knockoffs were able to handle the code.

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Tim Worstal
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Re: And....

"By the way - that towel and paper are ~ 50-es or thereabouts."

The 39 year old Czech guy I went around the exhib with (and who took the photos) clearly remembers both from his own childhood. On that mental list of "if you see these things, buy them" on the grounds that you never knew when you would be able to buy them.

And that they were also made in the 50s is rather the point. There wasn't much development of such consumer goods from the 50s through to the 80s.

BTW, the towel packet actually has "1988" written on it. But I don't know whether that is the year or not.

"Also, if memory serves me right Usti Nad Ladem was German till 1945 and were they "kicked out" or "it was taken from them by force" is something where the opinions may vary. Depends which side of the border you ask the question. It is a very nice area. Beautiful scenery (dunno about mines, have not seen any), clean air, mineral water in nearly every town."

It is all rather complex as you say. German name is "Aussig" and I've seen a road sign or two on the German side of the border with that even today. And the city was largely (possibly even majority) German before 1945. And part of the Sudetenland that Hitler took in 1938. Before that part of the first republic of Czechoslovakia.

Kicked out and force, well, definitely force was used. The various populations of this area were violently moved around in 1945 and following. Germany extend a couple of hundred miles further into Poland than it does now, Poland same into Ukraine than it does now. All shifted westward....but not just the borders. Ethnic Poles were kicked out ("forced") of Ukraine and dumped in Poland, the Ukrainian population of Poland vice versa. Germans in Poland (and the Baltics, and here) all shifted into Germany. A very bloody time and one of the largest mass movements of populations ever by some accounts.

Dresden, 30 minutes up the road, copped it badly in the closing days of the war, as we all know. Here, there wasn't really any fighting or bombing during the war. The violence was mostly in 1938 and 1945 and 6 (excepting the Holocaust of course, Terezin (Theresienstadt) is only 15 minutes away).

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Just to add one

Probably, my Czech's not very good and I was working from spoken (translated) conversations. So, steel and iron could well have got mixed up. And probably have actually. That URL is oce-something and iron is zelezno (or summat similar in all slavics).

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Tim Worstal
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Don't tell the subs

They'll all want one for Christmas

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Tim Worstal
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Re: Thanks

Showing my age here but there was a lovely Ruby Wax stand up joke where she plays the newly arrived American and asks, well, what is it with this British toilet paper? It just moves the moisture from side to side! Well (rubs her thighs together) I can do that myself!

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Tim Worstal
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And....

Video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgngTXg4JE

Couldn't use that in the piece of course as the copyrights aren't ours.

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Tim Worstal
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Just to add one

A bloke has actually built a 1,200 kg version of Jules Verne's "Iron City" out of the stuff. At the factory museum these days:

http://www.merkurpolice.cz/ocelove-mesto-rok-2000-az-2010#lightbox

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Belgium to the rescue as UK consumers freeze after BST blunder

Tim Worstal
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Re: Oh, for goodness sake

Portugal is on GMT (or, rather, today, BST).

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