228 posts • joined 17 Jan 2008
Re: taxing the public
I like the Health & Safety analogy. Corporate H&S works pretty well because senior managers become responsible in law.
Many years ago, a new Head of Data Centre was parachuted in from the US to run the site I was working at. I got an appointment with him to discuss Health & Safety. The conversation went...
Him: 'Why do I need to know about this stuff - we've got lawyers to deal with it'
Me: 'In the UK its criminal law and you could go to prison'
Him: 'Tell me about this stuff'
Management dont make coding errors for sure, but they are responsible for their staff and providing the relevant budget to put appropriate controls in place.
There really does need to be some sort of personal liability associated with Data Protection.
Re: WTF is Gender Fluid?
If we're listing euphemisms, might I offer 'Gentleman's Trouser Relish'? Coined by a friend, it has a spendidly Steam Punk sort of vibe about it....
Re: And even more ridiculous...
A lot of trans people find 'cis' awkward too.
The trouble is that, lacking a description like 'cisgender', the only other handy term would be 'normal'.
And trans people arent abnormal, we're just different...
As far as I've managed to glean so far, other trans people seem to feel (as I do) that Facebook have gone spectacularly over the top on this one. Most trans people either describe themselves in terms of the gender they identify as (regardless of physical sex), as transsexual, or transgender. 'Transgender' is the widely used generic term, although 'trans *' appears to be becoming popular. Which reflects how many of us are techie/geeky types, I guess.
"Changing gender is simple"
If only ...
Re: No defence
I do agree. Although I'l also admit to a touch of schadenfreude when it comes to Kitty Kelly's personal details... 'Live by the sword.. ' and all that.
So... what actually happens if NSA do develop a decryption engine that's as capable as people seem to assume it would be?
The decryption of any cryptographic key .... hmmm.
So, at what point to we cease to trust internet banking? Or cease to trust that credit card data used online is in any way protected?
It's one thing to 'own' the internet but another to find that the internet you now own isnt fit for purpose anymore and nobody uses it.
Are we really going to trust everyone employed by or contracted to the NSA not to misuse the information they'd then have access to?
Re: @Don Jefe
"I wasn't trying to offend. Apologies if I did."
At no point did I think you were, Don J. No apologies required....
Re: Trishiebunny TrishaD TrishaD Point of Order
"Really? In a forum thread on a rediculous allegation that MI5 killed Turing over sixty years ago?"
Why yes, Matt, really.
If you turn your mind back to what I actually said (rather than some figment of your imagination) I said that, much as I admire him, he'd jumped the shark on this one. I have no interest in what MI5 did over sixty years ago any more than I have any interest in what Peter T did thirty years ago
"What, now we're all homophobic if we're not GLBTI?"
Stop being a dick. I didnt say that. You know I didnt say that. Everyone else knows I didnt say that.
Re: TrishaD TrishaD Point of Order
....." Aw, Trishiebunny, I note you dodge discussing Tatchell's association with the Gay Liberation Front"
Oh, stop being so pathetic, Bryant.... I've not dodged anything. I've no interest in what Peter Tatchell (or anyone else for that matter) was doing 30 years ago. The 1970s and 1980s Trots grew up and got regular jobs years ago. I imagine they're all now moaning about their mortgages and voting Conservative by now. Tatchell's stuck to his human rights guns and whether you agree with him or not, he deserves credit for doing so even if he does get it wrong from time to time.
"Indeed, you steer well clear of discussing Tatchell's history and prefer to seek to stifle me by inferring I must be a homophobe to question Tatchell's motives and behaviour - how hypocritical of you!"
When I said 'you can call me or him a faggot', the 'you' was generic. I'd have thought that was blindingly obvious. I have no idea if you're a homophobe or not - in fact I suspect that you're not. You do strike me as a bit of a prat though, I'm afraid.
Re: @don jefe
Don J - let me say that I enjoy your posts - they're generally well considered and well articulated. I'm not sure that I can agree with you on this one.
'The significance of unique characteristics that define a minority are reduced in direct proportion to the level equality experienced by that group'.
I think I understand where you're coming from on this one. But as a member of a minority group, I'd be more than content if my 'special characteristic' genuinely made no difference and I were indeed treated as just another sentient being.
You see, equality consists of two things - civil rights and human rights. Gay and transgender people have in the UK reached a situation where our civil rights are pretty much the same as those of anyone else. We have, in short, equality under law,
However we dont achieve genuine equality until people in general dont differentiate between us and any other people when we go about our daily lives. No amount of law changes that - changes in peoples' perceptions change that. In my lifetime (I was born in 1953) gay people in the UK have progressed from a situation where their activities were illegal, through the battle for civil rights, and are genuinely reaching a situation where they are generally accepted by others (halfwit talk about 'Sodomites' not withstanding). Trans people still suffer from public ridicule - some of us on a daily basis - and acts of violence against trans people are still fairly common.
All I want to do is to be myself - a parent and a grand parent who's an IT professional, tax payer, shit guitar player, and petrol head who happens to be trans.
The hell with special treatment - when I can be that person without constantly worrying about my job and without fear of abuse and violence then I'll be equal.
Until then, I'm not.
Ok, I'll bite,,,,
Seeing as how its still more or less Christmas.
There are a number of intersex conditions which may or may not include chromosonal differences but almost all of which result in the presence of ambiguous sexual organs, both internal and external. So, for instance, a person may be born with a penis and a womb. For some time these conditions have been 'treated' by surgery in childhood followed by a hormone regime that the medics consider appropriate for the sex chosen (typically with consent of the parents). Its increasingly common now for the individual concerned to be given time to determine their own gender identity (the physical sex with which they best identify) before surgery takes place, ideally just before puberty. Some individuals now choose to remain intersexed and have no surgery.
Because some intersex people physically present externally as consistent with one sex but have the internal sexual organs of the other, its not totally unknown (though quite rare) for their intersex condition not to be discovered until adulthood.
Re: TrishaD Point of Order
"Only when those humans are gay or he can use them to bash "The Man". He has shown no interest whatsoever in any cause for any other reason, being a relic of the leftie Gay Liberation Front which started the "Turing gay icon" myth in the first place. The problem for crusaders like him is that as homosexuality has become more accepted and mainstream they have to make more rediculous claims to get the air-time they crave"
As might be expected, an almost entirely fact-free response.
His last successful campaign, conducted jointly with David Davies, the well known Trotskyite Conservative MP, was to repeal Section 5 of the Public Order Act, seeking to decriminalise mere insults in the interests of free speech. So if you want to call me or him a faggot, go right ahead - its legal. Because of Peter Tatchell.
Most of his campaigns for gay rights are now focussed on the international stage where homosexual rights are not 'accepted and mainstream' at all. You may recall he was beaten to a pulp by Robert Mugabe's goons for doing so.
Someone else has commented on the alphabet soup that is GLBTI etc. One important point to understand however is that Trans rights are not the same thing as Gay rights. Some trans people are gay but many are heterosexual. One reason I'm a supporter of Peter is that he's as passionate about trans rights as he is about gay rights. Unlike established pressure groups like Stonewall who specifically exclude trans people from their remit.
Point of Order
Peter is in fact a human rights activist - he's involved in a lot more than LGBT affairs.
I believe that he's probably jumped the shark on this one, which is a pity because he is, in my opinion, a top bloke. I've had some minor dealings with him regarding trans rights and he's never been less than unfailingly polite and helpful
Wealth and it's uses.
Having spent half my morning messing about trying to get check boxes to work in Word, I have no real reason to have warm feelings about Bill Gates
But this is good stuff and I'm loving his work. Wealth is a funny thing and I generally find the Rich to be a pretty tedious bunch, but people like Gates do change my perception a bit and genuinely do some good in this world.
My personal favourite tycoon has always been William Morris, the motor magnate, who formed the Nuffield Foundation and said simply 'No man should die rich'.
Re: Feminists are irritating
"The number one thing they did was stir up a hornet's nest over alleged sexism, thereby side-stepping the issue that the best female role-model they could come up with was an irrelevant, long-dead populist author, completely missing women who made a positive contribution to society, such as Ada Lovelace, Florence Nightingale or even Emiline Pankhurst..."
Well, I dont know, Dave...
I might suggest that they selected a purposefully non-controversial choice (Jane A is certainly popular, but I'd hardly say she was 'populist') because she'd be a widely accepted candidate for banknote immortality. Now that's not stirring up a hornets nest. The hornets nest was stirred up by the brain-dead tweeters who thought that rape threats were an appropriate response.
It's hardly barking mad Andrea Dworkin stuff now, is it?
Dont feel that the following comment is addressed to you personally, but some of the responses on this thread stagger me. It seems to me that for some people (ok, so make that 'some men') the tiniest suggestion that approximately 50% of the human population might be represented in the most trivial fashion is evidence that the feminists are all out to get them .
What a bunch of Cry Babies.
They wanted Jane Austen on a £10 note - not elect her as President of the United Nations for goodness sake.
Re: Feminists are irritating
"Criado-Perez is a nobrain fuckwit who hopefully will fade out of the medias attention, because that is her ultimate goal".
What evidence do you have to support that remarkable assertion? She thought it'd be nice to have a major icon of English literature celebrated on a banknote.
You know, that hardly qualifies her as a fully-paid up member of the Society for Cutting Up Men.
As a consequence of that rather modest suggestion, she got death threats and threats of rape. Is that proportionate? I kind of think not.
"Sidenote: Thank god I live in the US were we dont have laws like this yet"
Splendid. Stay there.
Well,,, quite so.
I'm 60 (although sadly not a CIO), and I'd suggest that any mature CIO with the degree of open-mindedness required to accept the concept of being mentored by someone younger doesnt actually need a mentor in the first place.
Re: Nw for a spanner in the works..
"I ask this for no other reason than to be an awkward sod: how does the whole transgender thing fit in this? It's all good and well to confirm a stereotype, but a theory is tested by its edge cases"
As someone who is transgender, I'd say that that was a perfectly valid and interesting question. In fact the research has been much discussed in support groups I frequent. A lot of us have looked for years for some form of physical evidence that we are in some way more like the gender we identify with rather than the gender we were born into. Rather than being mildy mentally ill as one commentard has suggested ( a comment which, for the record, I didnt find in the least offensive).
In reality, I'm not sure that it matters much. After all, its generally fairly blindingly obvious what the physical differences between men and women are anyway, and cognitive skills tend to be learned at least as much as they're inherent. So, while it would be jolly nice to have a laydeebrain and all that, its not likely to make much difference on a day to day basis.
Fyi - I cant park for toffee. On the other hand, I'm an accomplished engine builder and if you want a blueprinted V8 putting together, I'm your gal .....
Re: About Time.
Another account holder for the last 20 odd years here...
And I must admit that I've never been less than impressed with their customer service or with a banking website that's always worked perfectly well for me. We did have a bit of trouble a while back with credit cards issued that didnt do Chip and PIN but they did sort that out within a few days. The PED has never given me any problems either.
Re: is it 'cause I is black
"I imagine a tranny can be just as shit at their job as a white middle class straight american - and should therefore be just as easy to fire, from an equality viewpoint."
Well, indeed so. She might equally be rather good at it (like me).
It's not that she shouldnt be as easy to fire, but that she should be no more easy to fire..
There - that wasnt difficult, was it?
Assuming for a moment that culling this animal is the only viable option, I'm not sure that using that fact as an opportunity for fund-raising is appropriate at all. The ability to stump up a large amount of money doesnt necessarily coincide with having the skills and experience to facilitate a 'clean kill'.
If the unfortunate beast needs to be killed for the greater good, then pay an experienced and skilled hunter to take it down with the minimum of fuss and the minimum degree of suffering to the animal.
I wonder if we might, for the moment, leave aside the debate regarding whether or not Chelsea Manning deserves to be in prison?
I think also that we can dispatch the argument that she has only 'revealed' her transgender status (or indeed made it up) in order to get preferential treatment. It's clear that this is something that she had revealed to others well before carrying out the actions that led her to be where she is.
There is a standard protocol, developed many years ago, for the effective treatment of people who suffer from GD. It starts with specialist counselling to allow the person to fully explore the depth of their gender identity issues and to determine whether coping strategies exist. In my own case, that's where it stopped. I can cope and can do so without transition. I'm one of the lucky ones. For others, the next stage is female hormones (male in the case of people who are Male to Female TSs). These suppress the male sex drive and provide an endrochrinal balance that's more suited to the gender that the person identifies as. In the UK, because most people go through transition on the NHS, the next stage is the Real Life Experience - two years in which the person must present full time in their gender, and live and work in that gender. It's only then that Sexual Reasignment Surgery takes place.
If she's very lucky, Chelsea Manning will get counselling. That would seem to me the bare minimum to satisfy the requirements of basic human compassion. It would seem extremely unlikely that she'll be prescribed hormones or be offered any other form of treatment until her eventual release. The very best she can hope for is for a transfer to a womens' prison as soon as her GD has been confirmed by a qualified clinician.
Chelsea Manning has been in a prison since well before her initial arrest. Because that's what gender dysphoria is like. It's a sense of being trapped in an identity that does not match the one you feel to be real. So she is now in prison both literally and figuratively. She is about to go through living hell, regardless of how much of her sentence she serves.
I Love the EDL
No, really ...
EDL + Facebook = Hours of harmless amusement.
One of their 'leadership' team recently posted something to this effect on their Facebook page:
'Been on holiday on the South Coast. Then I saw this (photo attached). That's the biggest mosque I've ever seen. How are they able to get away with this?'
The photo, of course, was of Brighton Pavilion ......
"The collective insanity of the west in giving votes and degrees to people and telling them they are as good as anybody, and should have an opinion ... "
Erm, I'm afraid that's called Democracy.
If you can think of a better system, please do tell.
Re: Good @AC (15:51)
You seem to have overlooked the fact that Bradley Manning is in fact not the same person as Julian Assange,
Julian Assange is not the guy facing 35 yrs in prison.
The charge that he assisted the enemy didnt hold up. He was found guilty of espionage, although on behalf of whom seems unclear.
So - 'traitor'? I think not.
Bradley Manning was a disturbed young man who thought that he was doing the right thing.
And the more I see of this case and of the activities of the NSA, the more I feel he did the right thing too.
In legal terms, the culpability of Bradley Manning has been 'proven'.
But who else is culpable? It would seem evident to me that at the time of his deployment to Iraq, Bradley Manning was someone close to the edge. He displayed erratic behaviour, appears to have been deeply conflicted regarding his sexuality and gender identity (and believe me, I know how much that screws you up), and seems to have been increasingly isolated.
His supervisors MUST have known this. As a Junior Intelligence Analysis, however, they continued to give him access to sensitive information, regardless.
Re: thuggery isnt it?
"Nice disk drive, Squire.... Be a pity if someone broke it...."
Paranoia AND Stupidity. Not a great mix.
Re: I particularly liked...
At times like this, one cant help wishing that Keith Moon were still alive ...
Shutting the Stable Door
Insurance is the classic example of what's known as 'risk transfer' - rather than mitigating the risk via controls, you simply move it so that it's someone else's responsibility. The big problem with this is that it doesnt actually work in terms of risk prevention - a classic case of bolting the door long after the horse has fled,
I would have to assume that, as in the UK, all power companies (as an example of CNI) in the US must have a licence to operate. Would it not therefore be rather a more useful idea for that licence to be conditional on the production of the results of independent six-monthly penetration testing to demonstrate that controls in place (if any) actually do work?
And wouldnt that be a good idea for Mr Cameron's much-vaunted cyber-security initiative?
"Even if correct, which i'd be inclined to ask for some evidence for, this neglects the controllers already deployed - which was much of the thrust of the presentation".
Fair comment. I think there's good evidence that most agencies who are supporting critical national infrastructure in the UK are indeed following the right protocols - if only because CPNI (more power to their elbows on this one) have been campaigning in this area for some years
I also take your point about ICS systems and economic constraints - they're built down to a budget, of course they are, and vendors are not particularly impressive when it comes to the implementation of secure design. But if they remain isolated, I'll maintain that there isnt an issue.
The control systems that tend to worry me are those linked with with or developed from building management systems, particularly those associated with large public venues. BMS systems dont get a lot of publicity in terms of security controls which causes me to wonder how well they are actually controlled.
Well .... absolutely.
Whenever one of these SCADA stories come up, there's always a great deal of wooooooo in response, and everyone talks about how foolish it is to expose them to the internet etc etc.
And indeed it is. Which is why very few people do it these days. Buried in the bowels of some of our power stations there are control systems being powered by Windows 2000 boxes. Which matters not in the slightest because they're not exposed to the corporate network let alone the public internet. A bit of change control and an absolute veto on memory sticks keeps them clean.
The problem with SCADA is that normal controls do not apply - you cant take stuff out of service for software patches and AV upgrades and that's just a fact of life we have to work around.
Re: Isn't this illegal?
"Instead of all the moralising (even business minister Matthew Hancock is at it), perhaps it would be better to reduce the cost of hiring people in the UK. Think employment law, regulations, tax and even unions"
After you with the pay cut then, Rob .....
I Must Admit
That I have every sympathy with her. Ok, she's a big lass who likes to show herself off a bit, but the goal of her blog appears to be to provide encouragement and fashion advice to other big girls and to help them with self-esteem rather than to attract the attention of chubby chasers. A laudable enough goal, surely
I myself belong to a community of people who attract that sort of unwanted attention. I'm a member of a trans * support site which has something in the region of 160,00 members which breaks down roughly into 80,000 trans * people and another 80,000 chaps who find people like me at least theoretically attractive. There's a small'ish minority who are happy to be out and about and to socialise with us and make friendships and relationships. And a rather larger group whose motivation for being on the site is to make random 'sexy' comments and glop off to the pictures. Mostly that's harmless enough, but when a shy, gender confused 18 yr old makes their first tentative steps into a social life with other people who are prepared to accept her for what she is, the last thing she wants is a comment from some oaf saying he'd like to 'F*ck her 'till her arse bleeds' or to tell her she's a 'f*cking queer' when she rejects his crude suggestion of meeting up in some sleazy hotel someplace. We get that stuff so often that it's taken as routine.
The photos she can do nothing about. They become public property as soon as you post them on the net. As for the comments, there are various ways of dealing with them. Moderating comments logs does work but it makes the whole thing less spontaneous. Ignoring the comments always worked for me - when it comes down to it, it's not me who's looking like a moron. The third option is to return fire. Not something I have a problem with (I can get very creative when it comes to insult) but not something that comes naturally to most women.
The real solution of course is for the minority of blokes who do this sort of stuff to evolve. But that's a big ask.
Personally I'll be using her blog. As a size 18, I'm no lightweight myself.
Re: 300 Terrorists?
I was rather wondering..
If they've caught 300 terrorists, what happened to the 300 court cases that should inevitably follow if you do this sort of stuff in accordance with the Rule of Law?
Re: Job title
Claire Perry is my local MP. She is conscientious and helpful (and no, I didnt vote for her).
Unfortunately, she is also ambitious and, having come from a City background, totally clueless when it comes to technology.
Its not a good combination.
Was there a bucket in the coffin?
This is important
I'd just like to state categorically that failures in the Givernment's procurement strategy are NOT the result of Climate Change.
Lack of Technical Knowledge?
Well ... yes, up to a point. I think that the reliability of mainframes is unquestionable but its mostly about age of operating systems and applications and about a declining skill base capable of keeping them running.
As I recall, the RBS fiasco concerned the CA7 scheduling package. The last time I worked on CA7 must have been at least 15 years ago and it was a very good product as long as you were prepared to get to know it inside out. Otherwise, it was a complete camel. You could probably say the same thing for a number of legacy apps that run on, or control, mainframes.
When I first started working on RACF, I was considered a bit of a youngster. I'm now 60 yrs old and havnt touched a mainframe product in donkey's years. Most of the real mainframe hotshots are now long-retired and those skill bases arent being renewed. Maybe it's time I dusted down my JCL ....
Well... as I said, given their appearance, this person is likely to have been on hormones for more than a year, so unless she was remarkably prescient, I doubt it was done for the purpose of evading capture. Which would lead me to suspect gender dysphoria - a person uncomfortable with birth gender and transitioning to the gender they associate with psychologically. No question of them being gay or not - sexuality and gender identity are two seperate things.
Regarding 'orgasmic', its not the same thing as being capable of sexual arousal. Hormones do suppress sexual arousal, but post operative arousal has a great deal to do with the skills of the surgeon involved in retaining erectile tissue and getting it in the right place. Additionally, it''s common for women (transsexual or otherwise) to describe orgasm as a 'whole body experience' which isnt focussed in the same sense that male orgasm is.
Transsexual women dont actually become non-orgasmic as such. Hormones do make you infertile and prevent erectile function over time however, which isnt quite the same thing.
Re: Just airbagged?
Given her overall shape, this certainly isnt a disguise - hormones dont give you those sorts of curves in a year. A couple of years at the least would be my guess. So the surmise that she is in fact transsexual is probably accurate.
In Europe (including the UK) she'd most likely be given the option of serving the rest of her sentence in a women's prison, but I've no idea what the situation is like in Colombia. Hopefully they'll do the civilized thing.
She should certainly be serving her time - gender dysphoria is no defence against the crimes she's been found guilty of.
Its not really a question of 'Are the Chinese hacking US systems?', but 'Why would they not be hacking them?'
If I were a nation state trying to build myself a viable industrial complex for the purpose of profit, I certainly would be.
There are no cats.....
Sadly, he's mostly right.
Although its important to differentiate between security training and security awareness because they're not the same thing. Technicians designing and building systems should certainly be trained to code and designed securely and I genuinely believe that that's money well-spent.
Staff (and indeed Management), need to be security aware, even if that awareness extends only to knowing the extension number of the Information Security team and to have the confidence to be able to call that number if they see something that doesnt look quite right.
To be honest, though, the motivation for many companies I've worked for in paying out for security training can often boil down to 'If they dont know the Policy, you cant sack them if they breach it'.
Re: Visa vs VisaEurope
The governance of VISA is complex to say the least, but Visa Europe have, since around 2004, been a seperately constituted company with a Board consisting of representatives from European financial institutions. Visa Europe and Visa Inc. (who are registered in the State of Delaware) share a common network for interchange purposes, share common standards etc but may adopt seperate policies should they see fit to do so.
So there's no actual obligation on Visa Europe to play ball with the US although they've obviously seen fit to do so up to this point. A big falling out between Visa Europe and Inc. doesnt seem likely, regardless of which way they jump.
Re: TrishaDminus TrishaDminus
"I suggest you calm down, park the penis envy, and accept that maybe not everyone shares your tender concerns for Mr Kretsinger, and the more you try to lecture the more likely your viewpoint will be held up to ridicule"
That knee of yours seems to be causing you some trouble.
You see, Mr B, I didnt mention whether Codie K deserved his sentence or not. For the record I'd say that a year is about right. What I raised was the curious tendency of commentators on here to consider that rape in prison might in some way be considered to be appropriate punishment.
Which apparently makes me some sort of bleeding heart liberal, but hey ho....
"You forget (because you probably don't work in IT) that many of the posters here are involved in defending their company's and home systems from such tw@s as Cody Kretsinger and may even have suffered attacks from his "crew" of numpties"
The problem with people who think they can win arguments through personal abuse is that they talk through their arses. Yes, I work in IT. I've been in information security for somewhere like 25 years, starting with RACF. Yes, one of the organisations I work for has indeed been hit by Anonymous.
Which was pain in the neck but at least it got me some budget.
Now go wave your dick at someone else.
The likelihood of rape is not the issue.
People slobbering over the prospect it, however, is.
How clever of you, by the way, to come up with the epithet 'TrishaDminus' .....
Laugh? I almost did...
Re: TrishaDminus The Difference?
Once more for the hard of understanding.....
'Major Policy Issues' = Matters of government policy upon which a reasonable person might expect MPs to be divided on party lines. Examples - the Economy, Law & Order, Industrial Relations etc.
Likelihood of consensus politics - next to zero
'"Moral Issues" = Matters of policy where MPs might be expected to divide, not on party lines, but on grounds of personal belief, sense of ethics etc. Examples - Abortion, Homosexual Marriage, Age of Consent etc.
Likelihood of consensus politics - quite high.
Private members bills are likely to succeed in the latter case.
Now... was that too difficult to comprehend?
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