767 posts • joined 2 Oct 2007
The article states that users, including Linux users, need to be patched, yet the vuln is decribed as only applying if "a PC must be running Microsoft Windows XP; Windows 7 and Oracle Java 1.6; or Windows 7 and Microsoft Office 2007 or 2010."
I've long held the suspicion that some "security patches" and other alerts are used purely to push users off products that companies no longer wish to support. I'm not saying that this is one such alert, but the above does strike me as a bit odd. Or have I misread?
"I am still, to this day, baffled as to how this did not save Sega from oblivion. The console was so far ahead of its time, clearly, even gamers didn't realise what they were missing out on."
The trouble was that by the time the Dreamcast was released, the damaged was already done by a string of releases that, at best, were fair and, at worst, were total garbage. Having been assaulted in short order by the 32X and Sega CD extensions for what the Merkans refer to as the Genesis followed quickly (by which I mean only a matter of months) by the Saturn, people were going off Sega.
I totally agree that the Dreamcast was a good machine but Sega had already stuffed themselves. A real shame too. And yes, I can see Nintendo going the exact same way.
Re: Upgrade o Linux
To an extent I agree. However we need to be realistic here in that Wine does not provide a complete solution to this problem as not everything is supported.
Some parts of Windows may possibly never see complete support from Wine. Either way, porting from Windows XP to Linux/Wine is not a quick process. It may even take longer in some cases than Windows XP to Windows 7/8, though I have noticed a few advantages to both routes.
Re: ...they can be persuaded to switch to a Mac
"Because every single alternative to Excel is crap."
When attempting to emulate crap, it isn't unusual for the result to look like crap.
Re: ...they can be persuaded to switch to a Mac
I forget now how many times I have said in these fora; Linux is not Ubuntu
As for upgrade cycles, yes. This can vary from distro to distro, though as an openSUSE user I normally expect the toys to be chucked about 18 months unless the version is earmarked for Evergreen support in which case it varies from 3 to 4 years (though the choice of version sometimes bugs the crap out of me!)
ISTR Ubuntu has a long term support setup for some versions too.
Re: But a big trusted partner like Microsoft....
I'd rephrase that.
"Anyone who thinks Redmond (or Cupertino, for that matter!) gives a rat's ass about the end-user once they have got their money is deluded."
In other words, Redmond and Cupertino are only interested in money. They develop things as a way to get money. The only reason why Microsoft apologised for Windows ME and the only reason why they developed Windows 7 so close to Vista was because they were losing money. The only reason why they are rethinking the approach they will take for Windows 9 is because Windows 8 isn't making them the kind of money they were hoping for. Apple are no different. These are American corporates. That's their nature.
Re: I've been helping friends (and businesses) upgrade from XP to ...
I'm so glad I found somebody for whom systemd has been a pain in the rear. It has been my biggest problem with openSUSE since the advent of version 12 and the latest version, 13.1, is so totally broken, especially with the changes to udev and other bits, that I'm now actively looking for alternative distros. Nice to hear that Slack is still about - haven't tried it since my early Linux days, and that was back when I was starting with Caldera!
To be honest, the timing of the whole systemd business couldn't be worse given that shifting users from WXP would have been a good way to expand the Linux user base. Using systems with major flaws in them such as systemd is not the way to go and while I have no problem using earlier, more stable versions (my preferred versions of openSUSE at time of writing, for example, would be 11.4 or 12.2 but both are coming to the end of their lives now) it is common to find that distros prefer you to keep up to date and provide little support for older versions.
In other words, Windows XP was something of an anomaly. The reasons may be different but the various Linux distros, especially the big ones, are just as rough on the user upgrade path as Microsoft or Apple (there are exceptions to this, though, where a distro prefers to go with an evolved path rather than a complete upgrade path - forget the distro names right now but they do exist).
Re: I've been helping friends (and businesses) upgrade from XP to ...
"My tagline is that Linux doesn't suck any worse than Windows, and they should give it a try."
What, you mean that Linux should try sucking like Windows? I certainly hope not!
Too right. They're too busy trying to flog the ludicrous "B-Max".
I've tried sudo on a few occasions but not only does it not work in all situations but it can be as big a security bug as having a system with a default root password if you know how to manipulate its configuration.
Depends on where you are. I spend a lot of time at work on the network as it's a part of what I do but I don't necessarily venture outside the safety of the intranet and out onto the Internet which, of course, means navigating through the firewalls.
If you are talking of a small installation or a home setup, then yes, I'd agree that the distinction is probably pointless.
Re: MS took that to heart and people still complain.
> No one is complaining about the security of Win8. What people complain about is the utterly broken interface
That is the security. If you can't get in, you will hardly be likely to store anything worth nicking!
Re: Wow, it's just skyrocketing!
Both are fast, but the extended front end on the Mk.II RS2000 sold it for me. If only I had the money and somewhere to keep it (you'd be mad to park something like that on the roads near me!)
Re: 8.1 and 8 should be grouped together
Yes, it is arguable that Windows 7 could possibly be accounted as a Windows Vista service pack, though there are some functional differences. But then if you really need to go down that route, you could say that Windows XP was a "service pack" for Windows 2000 Professional (If you have ever seen or played with a copy of Windows Neptune, you'd know why!)
Re: 8.1 and 8 should be grouped together
"If it was a "service pack" for 8, then Windows 98SE would also be classed as one - it isn't so it's not."
Actually, 98SE had a lot of changes under the bonnet, so it was often classified as a separate OS, hence the use of the phrase "Second Edition", so yes, I'd agree with that.
However Windows 8.1 is not really a new system as a lot of what is included are service and security patches along with a few bits and pieces to make it look different, mostly because Windows 8 was being shafted in the general marketplace. Regardless of how it installs, it all comes down to what is inside.
"Only the dodgy remain"
Hmm... Looks at current email queue - Amazon, Google... yup. Can't argue with that!
Why bother? They seem to do a good job at fucking themselves.
Actually, that reminds me of one of the biggest failures for Vista - the netbook.
And didn't Dell try Linux on their desktops also, once upon a time?
Re: You've touched on the reason why there's a problem
Actually, you're almost right. It's all down to what you want to use and how. If you think back to when Windows 7 first came out, Microsoft were trying to push its touchy-feely side but soon realised that the desktop was never really meant for that sort of thing. However, since the vast majority of Windows 7 installs ended up on desktop and laptop machines, who cared?
Windows 8, however, was a big shift away from the desktop in an attempt to try to control the tablet market in the same way as they had controlled the desktop market, using a similar tactic to the one that they used in the console market. The difference is that Microsoft didn't really benefit from the console market until the competition screwed up, at which point they could really push the XBOX 360 as far as they wanted.
Just as with the console market, there are two major competitors in the tablet market, neither of which have made an appreciable mistake as yet. Apple keep their tablet involvement apart from their desktop environment except where absolutely necessary and Android haven't really made a mark on the desktop as yet. Both are big successes and Microsoft have not found a way to discredit either or benefit from mistakes.
What this means is that Windows 8 has no real inroad into the tablet market and may never have, but you won't know for sure for some time. Meanwhile Microsoft, in their impatience and insistence that touch is the next big thing, have annoyed users for whom touch is of no real use. If they finally get the message with the next version, there may be a way to save the situation but Windows 8 was a gamble by Microsoft. My own view is that, just as with the netbook and the console, Microsoft got into the game far too late. This time, however, Microsoft are in danger of losing the farm.
Re: Choose a Linux distro wisely... @ llort_boy
On older machines like that, I'd be inclined to suggest that you avoid more resource hungry UIs like GNOME, KDE or Unity. A number of distros support xfce (http://www.xfce.org/) which is a perfectly usable UI which can include all the necessary bits that you might need to keep the average girlfriend up to date.
I personally use openSUSE which is updated regularly, though other distros are out there and will happily run xfce.
Re: *just* 14 more months to upgrade?
Must admit, I've never heard of this Apple Intel iPad.
But then again, you start plugging keyboards and such into a tablet, you lose the portability of a tablet which is one of the reasons for using a tablet in the first place. It's all down to what you use a device for. Laptops and desktops are general purpose machines, tablets and smartphones are specialist devices. While there are points at which they cross over in their functionality, their uses are geared towards what they do best and I would no sooner carry a desktop around to use for portable browsing than I would use a smartphone to run the majority of desktop applications. But that's a whole different gripe.
It just seems rather odd that this announcement comes so soon after HMG admitted that a number of its main departments admitted that they couldn't remove all their XP machines in time for the April deadline.
Or maybe I'm just paranoid?
(...the greater good...)
Re: All to depressingly reminiscent ...
All I remember back then was the insistence in adverts for the ZX80 and the ZX81 (I forget if they did the same for the Speccy but I wouldn't be surprised) about how many ICs the machines had. (ICs. Now that really dates me!)
So yes, I can certainly believe that!
"What was it about the British computer industry and its obsession with not using 90mm floppies like everybody else?"
As I recall it, the problem back then was that not everybody did use those 3.5" jobbies, mostly because more than one company was trying to come up with something to replace the last truly floppy floppy, the 5.25". Indeed Amstrad's all-in-one unit mentioned in the article used the 3" alternative and don't get me started on the various addons you could get for the BBC Micro at the time! All Uncle Clive was trying to do is what he always tried to do - invent stuff that could, given a chance, corner the market.
As we all know, however, he didn't in this case. The "microfloppy" eventually became the "microdrive", an endless loop that didn't really cut it, whether you were a QL user with built in drives or one of the few that added them to your Speccy. Someone tried a similar approach on the Beeb with a drive known as the "Floopy", though I never heard of anyone actually using one in anger.
But then hindsight is always 20/20.
Re: Unnecessary Windows 8.1 Hate
I have. I don't like it. I'm back to W7. It works. End of.
Re: There's an interesting aspect to the comments so far
And that's how you got RISC OS.
I knew Acorn had the right of it!!!
It's not April yet.
Certainly nobody really wants change forced on them, but I'd be interested to hear exactly where you get the "most companies" statistic from. For myself, I work in the public sector so I don't have an option to stay with XP.
Yes, I keep an eye on the gaming side of things too, but I notice a certain ambivalence where the OS is concerned. As long as it will run the latest and greatest hardware and support the games, they're happy. In a way, that's little different to the company types, but that's where the similarity ends.
Re: it all begins to sound
You might see the word "Apple" carved on the handle of the knife, but it quite certainly put there at Microsoft's own behest. Nobody forced them to attempt corporate suicide by throttling one of its core products in the name of greed.
There were other ways to try to move into the tablet market rather than trying to sacrifice Windows (or, at the very least, produce a product that was a conglomeration of parts from Windows 1, Bob, Me and Vista, all patched together then sold snake-oil style in the hopes that they could shaft the emerging market the way they shafted so many other markets from the microcomputer to the console).
I have a free space gesture for them. Not sure what command it maps to, though. Possibly something that needs a certain number...
Re: Save billions on marketing
You're right, but not necessarily for all the right reasons. Yes, the corporates are moving to Windows 7 from Windows XP, but not necessarily because they dislike Windows 8. What they actually dislike is the prospect of paying the overheads for upgrading the OS, possibly upgrading the hardware and certainly upgrading whatever software they use that refuses to work on the new OS. With so many scrambling to get everyone off XP before the support cutoff, the idea of going through it all again doesn't leave many feeling enthusiastic about it all.
In a way, this is one strength of Linux in that it is possible to evolve rather than have an explosive change that disrupts your user base. To an extent this is also what people liked about Windows XP in that they had a lengthy support run with few worries about the loss of compatibility when the occasional service pack came around. Vista, on the other hand, was too much of a leap and were it not for the age of XP and some of its supposed shortcomings, I suspect that W7 would have suffered a similar fate. It was only the fact that W7 was such a good release compared with Vista and that XP was being ousted that gave W7 its chance. What you had with W8.x was exactly the same explosive change that blighted Vista, the bullying sales tactics that saw Vista pull PC sales into the doldrums and a design that, I'll say yet again, harkened back to the days of Microsoft Bob.
So what if W9-or-whatever is merely a spruced up W7? We could do worse. As for allowing TIFKAM apps to run in a Windows Desktop environment, somebody owes me a new keyboard! I'd rather see the old gadgets come back - yes, let's face it, they were killed off because of TIFKAM. I know Microsoft insisted that they were afflicted by some sort of security flaw, but I can tell sales bullsh*t when I smell it!
Re: Is Windows trying to copy the StarTrek convention...
Oh noes, not agayne!
You can guarantee that someone will roll this tired cliché out each time we discuss Microsoft OS releases.
Re: Will anyone still care?
Exchange does email? I thought it was a kind of server stress test... ;)
Not really. While security groups and profiles have provided a bit of a problem, the two main problems have been legacy hardware and legacy software, at least in my experience.
I have had too many instances of W7 machines being installed only to find that the unusual ticket machines they use require a kernel mode driver which W7 doesn't do, or I have to start flicking through the compatibility fixes because some programmer in the dim and distant past didn't bother to consider problems arising from users not running in admin accounts.
Taking that into consideration as well as the fact that not every organisation wants to go out and re-equip their PC install base every time Microsoft gets a bug up their rectum and releases yet another operating system, especially if what they have does the job that they want it to do, and this is what you get.
In some ways, the fact that it has been so long since WXP came out could work in W7's favour since many of the machines that have already been changed were falling to bits anyway, but some WXP machines will still be in pretty good nick at this point, especially given the reluctance of companies to go to Vista, "downgrading" these boxes instead.
Re: WTF ?
Chances are, however, that they wouldn't use the words "Pot" or "Kettle" but something silly like "iWater" and deliver it in a glossy white finish.
Re: iDid iThey iEven
Not sure if you could call it desperation or incompetance. Either way, they prove yet again that they have a real problem listening until their intended public bites them in the situpon. Not really the best way to do business, really.
Merkan corporates seem to be making a habit of this lately... <cough>google+</cough>
Re: Not entirely retarded.
Actually, the idea that WinERT could be immune to infestation because of its ARM use isn't new. RISC OS, for many years, was touted by some that it was also immune.
To a certain extent, it was. Not because of the processor, but because the OS was hard coded into ROM chips. But then this didn't stop virus code being inserted into application files and other volatile system bits that were stored outside the ROM. This would have potentially got worse as more of the OS was stored in disc based modules loaded into memory on startup or first use except for the second reason. Obscurity. Nobody could be bothered to write viruses for a system that was becoming less used.
Given enough time and effort, WinERT could be hacked. Being ARM based is no protection. I suspect that the biggest protection could be the same as with RISC OS - obscurity.
In other words, and paraphrasing Piccolo from DBZ; "The balls are WinERT".
Delicious and nutritious. Tastes just like chicken.
Re: XP 2.0?
Not really. Having been part of a migration from XP to W7, I can tell you that there are plenty of pitfalls to migrating directly between the two.
1. Drivers. Let's face it, not every device you may have used under WXP will have drivers on W7 and the existing WXP drivers, while some might actually work, quite a lot don't. You end up with the headache of how to work around this or, in extreme situations, replace.
2. Bad programming. To be honest, this is not directly a Windows fault but it goes back to the bad old days where a programmer expects all users to be running as a default administrator straight out of the box and does not plan services properly. This causes all sorts of problems with file access, database access and in some extremes profile access.
3. Functionality changes. Not every single WXP option or control has its analogue in W7 and, when they do, it isn't quite what you expect. One example was the "root certificates" which, on WXP, was updated regularly as a Windows Update patch but, on W7 and Vista, is supposed to be updated on the fly as it is needed which does not account for possible security issues. This leads to plenty of certificate errors on otherwise legitimate sites.
That's before we get to the "where did x function or y control go" which is a problem with every update of Windows since the very beginning.
Yes, WXP to W7 is a good way to go on the whole, but it's not a painless procedure and it certainly couldn't be called WXP V2.0, though given W8 and all that has occurred, I can still see W7 taking hold of the market for a similar amount of time, despite Microsoft's bullying tactics when it comes to selling systems.
Re: I wonder how much Nintendo would pay for Xbox
If you think the Wii U is a flop, have you seen the Wii Mini yet?
I agree with the idea of convergeance between the XBone and the PC but given that the PS4 is also mostly a custom PC rig, I'm thinking that the next generation is probably the going to be the last unless somebody, whoever it is, comes up with something amazing. Somehow I can't see Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo doing it right now.
But you never really know....
Re: Where's the roadmap?
It's a bit like the whole Google+ on YouTube business or the impeding Windows XP support end. They have taken an unpopular step and dumbed down the interface because the people behind it just don't have the smarts to do a proper job, then the marketing types dress it all up as "marvellous", "exciting" and so forth so that you are made to feel out of it if you resist. Then you kill the alternative functionality or, if you can't do that, you scare the users with whatever horror stories you can think up.
One consideration that was often made when I was still programming was that the programmer was often the worst person to make design decisions because they often frigged about with the application, adding bits that they thought were a good idea, until you get something that is almost completely unusable. That's what I see in the ribbon and in Metro.
A good bit of programming does what the user wants it to, mostly because they know what they want to do, and at least partly because a good programmer listens to what the user wants to do before they even start designing the application, let alone coding.
Re: Why not...
"Exactly how the iPhone, iPad and the UX in IOS and OS X were designed. Except that it was only Steve's opinion that mattered. One guy. That was all. If he liked it, it was forced on everyone else. If he didn't like it, you reworked it until he did or you were canned."
Quite so, but then the original statement wasn't a judgement of Apple's ethics.
Generally speaking (and lest ye forget, generalisms always have exceptions), pragmatism and American Corporates don't usually mix.
Re: Like some lasses I've known....
Sounds just like Me-tan (Windows ME's unofficial OS-tan mascot, reputedly the one that started it all!)
Re: Oh, dear...
Actually, the history of the OS-tan is long. There are -tans for systems as old as MS-DOS 3, and the whole thing isn't tied only to Microsoft's output, although their first trip into this sort of thing was Nanami Madobe, the mascot of Windows 7.
You can't blame us this time!
Re: "...laws are for the little people..."
Quite right. From what I see of it, the little people in government in the US have sold themselves out big time and the US is suffering the result as the big cats rake it all in and determine the way the law will go. The only difference I see here between the US and the UK is that the US end of it has had a lot more press so far and more has been found out.
It's only a matter of time...
Re: Ditch the aluminium
Computer? Hello, computer!
Re: This is disturbing
"Since English is in general of French or German origin..."
Actually, that's not quite true, though all three languages do have common roots in languages such as Latin and so forth. It's all a matter of who was the biggest b*****d historically in whichever part of the world we are talking of.
Yes, America included!
Re: This is disturbing
"Note for visiting Americans: You must not use the word 'pardon' when in England. To do so implies that the person you are speaking to is a serious criminal who has been released from prison on a technicality. It is regarded as very offensive and can cause a violent reaction in most social settings"
Except if you burp first...
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cheapfrugal creatives or engineers