806 posts • joined 2 Oct 2007
Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?
The Windows 8.1 Update Strikes Back
Windows 8.1 Update Muyo (No Need for Windows 8.1 Update)
Gone with the Windows 8.1 Update
Or why not just Windows 8++?
Nor would I. But then I don't think that Windows 8 has a bargepole-touch-sensitive interface anyway.
Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?
Always assuming that you had the base install media to do it with, of course.
Re: Business as usual
Actually, you aren't totally wrong. Yes, there are some folk that are locked into WXP for all sorts of reasons but there are those with, perhaps, only a basic grasp of tech for whom the end of WXP has simply passed them by.
The thing is though that these folk are already affected by scams, bugs and other malware and this would not change even if they did upgrade to a later Windows OS or moved to Apple, Linux or whatever.
Re: Wow! That many people moved to KDE or XFCE?
I'd be inclined to say that you need to be careful about such accusations. Consider that while I agree that KDE4 at that point was only in its baby stages, KDE3 was certainly well ahead of anything that WXP could do and that there were a few things in the UI of KDE3 that Vista took on board.
To be honest, having watched this situation for some years now, one thing I have noticed that UIs tend to "copy" each other quite regularly. My own background UI experience started with RISC OS and Windows 3 and even back then you could spot ideas from one UI being tried in another. If you really want to go down that road, we could go back to Xerox Parc!
Re: WAAAAAIT a minute....stop.
Yes. That's exactly what they are doing.
Windows 7 (and 8 presumably though I've not delved that deeply as yet) has many different tools included to try to make old software run, but some software just doesn't play well. Let's face it, there are some companies out there that still use software that goes back to the days before Windows XP and elder sister Windows 2000 which only just worked when moved onto these systems. I know as I still have the onerous task of dealing with some of this software!
While Microsoft can wail about the age of the underpinning that keeps XP from falling to bits and so forth, the other side of the argument is that much has been done by many to keep some applications, some of which are vital to some users, working on XP and have yet to receive the same degree of attention with regard to Windows 7+.
So you are surprised?
Re: Bring the App Store to Windows 7!
You want the real reason?
"Microsoft cannot be bothered to add this functionality to an older operating system because we are finding it hard enough to get users off Windows XP and don't fancy the idea of having the same trouble when Windows 7 superannuates!"
while building smart bridges to the new modern user experience and ensuring customers can get access to all your great apps in the Windows Store.
This is where the trouble lies, I suspect.
"Great apps"? To quote a certain Internet celebrity; "You know what's BUUUUULSH*T?"
As I said in a previous comment, Microsoft need to swallow their pride, admit that they are wrong and do what they should have done in the first place. My own opinion on this is that they should have left the touch stuff on its own platform separate from the more traditional version until its coverage was big enough to put the two together. If at all. And as for "Apps" stores, they are likely to be as popular as Adobe's "software rental" model. Now here's the real "vulnerability" of the Windows Vista/7 gadgets - Microsoft's envisioned bank balance!
Re: Orange duplicates every Google app that could run up charges
Agreed. This was the biggest flaw with my OSF and one that I eventually did something about by rooting it and slinging a more up-to-date Android on it, notably NOT an Orange one. Mind you, although I don't use it as my regular phone anymore, I no longer buy Orange/EE badged phones.
Although I suspect that some folk might look poorly on my current choice - a rooted Huawei Ascend G330. ;)
Re: Too little too late? don't be preposterous!
> > Serious IT decision makers in Government and the Corporate world
> > trust them - and for very good reasons.
> Flimflammery, kickbacks and the delusion that Symantec Antivirus will keep the
> bottom from falling out?
Probably. The trouble is that too many people making the decisions are either of the over-cautious type (I don't want to change the habits of a lifetime) or the one-button-fixes-everything type. It isn't unusual for them to have an IT type advising them, but it isn't unusual for the IT type to either be almost as ignorant or, more often, ignored because they don't use the right buzzwords.
> > And also absurd to lay all the blame with Sinofsky - the buck stopped
> > with Ballmer.
> Yes, he should have cashiered the Sinoguy immediately instead of letting
> him run with dimwitted ideas.
Sinofsky probably got away with it by keeping his profile high only where it was needed. The problem there is that it's the sort of strategy that bites you in the bum eventually and when it does, your own bum isn't the only one up for mastication.
> But it's good to hear that Microsoft is finally shuffling its feet.
Maybe. There's still time for them to trip and fall arse over tip. We shall see.
Who the hell comes up with this stuff?
I mean... NIPS and HIPS?!?
Worse than the mess created by Microsoft Wan... sorry OneCare!
Re: Third time's a charm?
Windows with marshmallow pieces? Not sure about that...
Re: Someone must be blind to think thats a Window 7 Start Menu
But Metro is still vital, as it's needed to lock users in to the Microsoft Store, and Microsoft Store is intended to be Microsoft's future cash cow.
The problem here is that the platforms that already use this model had no prior setup. Apple's setup did not include the iMac and its successors, Android had no previous model to worry about so both were able to lock in the users (though Android didn't explicitly lock users into the Market anyway).
Windows is a long running model. It is an operating system that allows users to build their own application sets on it. An app lock in is not really desirable and will be resisted - it could be a real money pit for Microsoft if they insist on going down that avenue, especially as its rivals develop further.
Re: Someone must be blind to think thats a Window 7 Start Menu
What you need to keep in mind is why Metro was loathed. Is it just this whole tile business or the fact that it was whacked over the top of the desktop, which was neutered?
I'm not a great fan on TIFKAM, and still view the whole "kill off the Vista/W7 gadgets because they are a security risk" thing as deeply suspicious, but if a real use can be found for TIFKAM apps and a proper home can be found in the desktop setup, then I'm game.
It isn't as if the lost widgets can't be replaced by other tools - Microsoft can go fornicate themselves in that case! It's much like the situation with KDE and KDE 3, openSUSE and its obsession with systemd... there's a lot of it about, ya know!
Re: Still doesn't look as usable
True. You have to admit that it is "kewl" to hate on Windows 8, hence some of the posts. Having used earlier versions of W8.x, I know why I don't like it, but I'm open to improvements. This screenshot does offer a hint at a possible improvement, so I'm happy to wait and see.
Until then, it's Win 7 + openSUSE + RISC OS all the way for me! ;)
So that's two mentions so far. While I have nothing against Mint in general, as is my wont, I'd suggest that Linux is not Mint.
But then all I'm doing here is feeding the t-word...
Actually, this whatever-it-is looks a bit more reasonable than Windows 8.x has done up to now, but overall I've seen nothing to convince me that Windows 8.x has anything in particular that beats out Windows 7 except possibly a speed increase (which I've seen so many mentions of but wherever I have used Win 8 I have never really noticed).
Sorry, Oracle, but you only have yourselves to blame considering how you treated the various open source projects when you took Sun over. Weep if you must...
Next you'll be telling us that you took an arrow to the knee...
Re: This is all well and good
You can tell by the plot.
Re: FCC sez: All Your Hertz Are Belong to US
What you say?
Re: peanut butter and jelly
I can stomach either tomato or brown sauce, but not if you are going to call me Shirley.
Sounds like a load of pokeballs to me...
Re: What I think's weird
No, not just you. Go back far enough and some of those things were negatives on GNOME 3 too.
But then I still use KDE3. ;)
Re: I have free copies of XP...
Sounds like that woman that sold mobile phones on eBay. Only she put a little rider in the small print, one that guaranteed that the successful buyer only got photos of the phones.
Nikki something or other...
Why don't they just call it "Microsoft Hot Air"?
Re: Don't laugh
Trouble with that is that they already played that card when they named Vista's successor.
Re: Hey Satya, free tip..
True, except that Hotmail wasn't a brand that Microsoft came up with. It was a company that they took over. Then they fucked it over...
Re: Money well spent
Eh? Thought he was a dog...
Re: Attempting to give a damn...
Re: VLC Media Player
I'd be more inclined to use CCCP and Media Player Classic, but that depends on who is likely to use it and what they might be watching... ;)
Depends on the users. Classic shell adds a few bits and pieces on W7 that were on XP, especially on the explorer windows. I agree though - it's hardly a vital installation with W7.
Good code is good code, no matter how old it is. The term "bit rot" was debunked a long time ago. The trouble is that good code isn't that easy to come by.
Or if you prefer, there's the old adage that I recall from my programming days - there's no such thing as a finished product; just one that's in a high state of debug. :)
Architects don't have any.
Re: A Travesty
Here's a quick resume of the problem here.
1. The NHS has to justify everything it spends our money on. To a very great extent, public services have to do that much, if only to make sure that they don't lose their future budgets, but the NHS is more high profile than, say, a local authority trying to maintain a rubbish collection or monitor a public health breach.
2. There has been, despite lip service to the contrary, a notable lock-in mentality with the Government with Microsoft operating environments over many years. This is sometimes due to point 3 below.
3. User ignorance of GNU/Linux (or any other operating environment, for that matter) is not an unusual occurrance.
4. Software and hardware companies will often provide systems that will not upgrade easily, if at all. In some cases this is due to ignorance, in other cases laziness, in yet others it is used as a way to push sales of new systems.
5. Corporates don't give a toss unless you are prepared to throw money at them, regardless of who you are. The only other way they tend to shift is when public humiliation could cause a serious dent in their cashflow, but that's less common since corporates are big enough to hide such things to a great extent.
6. People are too eager to jump from old to new systems because some marketing shill tells them to, either by promising improvement or threatening degradation. While they aren't always wrong, the motive is more likely to be monetary and often the resulting situation matching the marketing hype is a matter of coincidence.
Am I being too cynical here?
Consider that The Daily Show uses clips under the various fair use exceptions. No problem there except that Viacom have been known to issue take downs in the past of videos using clips by people that are there for critical or satirical purposes, two of the very reasons that protect the Jon Stewart show from the legal attentions of Fox and CNN.
Actually, a steering wheel on a washing machine has already been done back in the 1940s.
They called it the VolksWagen. :)
Re: Windows 9?
That's rather a simplistic way of putting it, but I see a couple of flaws in this statement. The first is that nobody knows for certain what Windows 9 will have in it and when it is likely to come out. All we can do about that is wait and see.
The second, more likely problem is that Microsoft have proven themselves as too bloody minded about this whole thing and while it shouldn't be that much of a problem to set it up to run as it did all the way back when the first trial versions came out (e.g. the one where you could actually switch the system between desktop and TIFKAM and get on with your life, including the availability of the whole start menu as per Windows 7), Microsoft will avoid this for as long as possible purely because they cannot accept that they were wrong.
What I see here (I'll say more if and when I see it for myself) is yet more fudging around the main issue which is that Microsoft shot itself in the foot the moment they foisted Windows 8 upon the world. It isn't all bad, but Microsoft tried too hard to force the computing world to adopt their view when, firstly, they had no control over the market they wanted to take over and, secondly, the majority of users that were most likely to need Windows (the PC and laptop users, their numbers far higher than Windows tablet and smartphone users) didn't really want or need this change. Until Microsoft gets the message and admits its mistakes, Windows 8 will find it hard to shake its negative image.
The article states that users, including Linux users, need to be patched, yet the vuln is decribed as only applying if "a PC must be running Microsoft Windows XP; Windows 7 and Oracle Java 1.6; or Windows 7 and Microsoft Office 2007 or 2010."
I've long held the suspicion that some "security patches" and other alerts are used purely to push users off products that companies no longer wish to support. I'm not saying that this is one such alert, but the above does strike me as a bit odd. Or have I misread?
"I am still, to this day, baffled as to how this did not save Sega from oblivion. The console was so far ahead of its time, clearly, even gamers didn't realise what they were missing out on."
The trouble was that by the time the Dreamcast was released, the damaged was already done by a string of releases that, at best, were fair and, at worst, were total garbage. Having been assaulted in short order by the 32X and Sega CD extensions for what the Merkans refer to as the Genesis followed quickly (by which I mean only a matter of months) by the Saturn, people were going off Sega.
I totally agree that the Dreamcast was a good machine but Sega had already stuffed themselves. A real shame too. And yes, I can see Nintendo going the exact same way.
Re: Upgrade o Linux
To an extent I agree. However we need to be realistic here in that Wine does not provide a complete solution to this problem as not everything is supported.
Some parts of Windows may possibly never see complete support from Wine. Either way, porting from Windows XP to Linux/Wine is not a quick process. It may even take longer in some cases than Windows XP to Windows 7/8, though I have noticed a few advantages to both routes.
Re: ...they can be persuaded to switch to a Mac
"Because every single alternative to Excel is crap."
When attempting to emulate crap, it isn't unusual for the result to look like crap.
Re: ...they can be persuaded to switch to a Mac
I forget now how many times I have said in these fora; Linux is not Ubuntu
As for upgrade cycles, yes. This can vary from distro to distro, though as an openSUSE user I normally expect the toys to be chucked about 18 months unless the version is earmarked for Evergreen support in which case it varies from 3 to 4 years (though the choice of version sometimes bugs the crap out of me!)
ISTR Ubuntu has a long term support setup for some versions too.
Re: But a big trusted partner like Microsoft....
I'd rephrase that.
"Anyone who thinks Redmond (or Cupertino, for that matter!) gives a rat's ass about the end-user once they have got their money is deluded."
In other words, Redmond and Cupertino are only interested in money. They develop things as a way to get money. The only reason why Microsoft apologised for Windows ME and the only reason why they developed Windows 7 so close to Vista was because they were losing money. The only reason why they are rethinking the approach they will take for Windows 9 is because Windows 8 isn't making them the kind of money they were hoping for. Apple are no different. These are American corporates. That's their nature.
Re: I've been helping friends (and businesses) upgrade from XP to ...
I'm so glad I found somebody for whom systemd has been a pain in the rear. It has been my biggest problem with openSUSE since the advent of version 12 and the latest version, 13.1, is so totally broken, especially with the changes to udev and other bits, that I'm now actively looking for alternative distros. Nice to hear that Slack is still about - haven't tried it since my early Linux days, and that was back when I was starting with Caldera!
To be honest, the timing of the whole systemd business couldn't be worse given that shifting users from WXP would have been a good way to expand the Linux user base. Using systems with major flaws in them such as systemd is not the way to go and while I have no problem using earlier, more stable versions (my preferred versions of openSUSE at time of writing, for example, would be 11.4 or 12.2 but both are coming to the end of their lives now) it is common to find that distros prefer you to keep up to date and provide little support for older versions.
In other words, Windows XP was something of an anomaly. The reasons may be different but the various Linux distros, especially the big ones, are just as rough on the user upgrade path as Microsoft or Apple (there are exceptions to this, though, where a distro prefers to go with an evolved path rather than a complete upgrade path - forget the distro names right now but they do exist).
Re: I've been helping friends (and businesses) upgrade from XP to ...
"My tagline is that Linux doesn't suck any worse than Windows, and they should give it a try."
What, you mean that Linux should try sucking like Windows? I certainly hope not!
Too right. They're too busy trying to flog the ludicrous "B-Max".
I've tried sudo on a few occasions but not only does it not work in all situations but it can be as big a security bug as having a system with a default root password if you know how to manipulate its configuration.
Depends on where you are. I spend a lot of time at work on the network as it's a part of what I do but I don't necessarily venture outside the safety of the intranet and out onto the Internet which, of course, means navigating through the firewalls.
If you are talking of a small installation or a home setup, then yes, I'd agree that the distinction is probably pointless.