Cloud secure? Heh...
I know I shouldn't say it, but I did tell you!
1002 posts • joined 2 Oct 2007
Cloud secure? Heh...
I know I shouldn't say it, but I did tell you!
Same here. I have two openSUSE 13.1 systems that do my main work as well as a netbook running the venerable openSUSE 11.4. The other machines that run Windows 7 are only there to run software that refuses to run anywhere else and these applications are becoming fewer as the years go by.
That doesn't include my two RasPis, one with Rasbian, the other with RISC OS (now there's an OS that really lasted well!)
From what I've seen so far, it depends on the content of the negative comment. Interesting to note how you have brought up the XBone though. The whole experience so far has led me to draw the same conclusion.
Anyway, I'm preparing a test laptop to see what I make of it all over the weekend. My overall impression will depend on that.
"Windows as a service" sounds like leased software.
It is. Read the EULA.
Does M$ want to make users constantly pay for software?
Yes, they do. They have to make up the loss-leader of releasing Windows 10 for free for a year after all and they do seem to like the idea of an app store lock-in like the one Apple uses on iPads and iPhones.
What will they do when Joe bloke who is used to retiring a PC with the Windows it came with complains about yearly charges for mandatory updates?
They'll offer to take their payment online using Visa, MasterCard or BitCoin.
This whole business of making the computer more "friendly" has annoyed me for some years. Wizards, obscure error messages, whatever, it's of no use. A computer is supposed to be a tool, not a device posing as a tool!
Home users who MUST be updated because they won't do it themselves vs. enterprise users who MUST withhold updates that can potentially break business-critical systems.
I'd agree with you if I knew that I could trust any given patch or update that was issued. The minute a dodgy patch hits a large number of people who can't fix the problem themselves is when this whole argument falls apart.
And dodgy patches are certainly released.
The OS or the moaning?
I can't remember an operating system that ever worked well on day one. With Windows it has always been the driver breakage whenever you tried to upgrade. I can recall Windows 95 and the whole situation there when users found that some hardware failed due to shoddily written drivers dashed out so that the product could be completed on time, with little tolerance for drivers from its predecessor. While this hasn't been exactly the same for each release, problems have always occurred. It's one of the reasons why the whole "leave it until the first service pack comes out" approach became popular.
Windows 7 was a good release. It's one reason why Windows 8.x was unpopular with many users. Another was that Windows XP wasn't so bad one you got used to, or you switched off, the "Fisher Price Experience(tm)". It was always going to be difficult to follow these up, as also seen with Vista's failure (oh noes! I'm going to get downvoted again!)
It has become noticeable that Microsoft seem to be happy to release new versions, even to the point of bullying users off stable prior platforms and even when everyone + dog knows that it isn't ready. I suspect that if Windows 8 had been allowed to die and Microsoft started again from Windows 7, they might have made something that users might not object to.
That, however, would depend on Microsoft actually listening to users rather than doing their own thing, trying to force their view on us then throwing a few sops at us when they realised that their actions might potentially hit their sales figures. Sops like the "Start" button in W8.1 or the Start + Metro menu here in W10. Yes, there are good things to be found here but the underlying problem still remains; Microsoft wants to lock its users into its ecosystem and will go to any lengths, including snooping, hidden clauses in the EULA, dubious licensing, even more draconian DRM to make sure that happens.
Anyone remember the fiasco surrounding the release of the XBone? Does all this sound familiar? Ballmer might be gone but the faceless evil minions under him are still alive and well.
@45RPM - At least he'll stand out from the sheeple in their German bourge-mobiles.
This is not progress in my eyes but there again, what do I know? I'm merely an Old Codger who's first introduction to computers was wiring up Analogue Computer Amplifiers for RAF Gnat Flight simulators.
I think you might have something there. What we are seeing in the design of UIs in recent years has less to do with functionality than it has to do with fashion. The mobile phone suffered a similar fate. UI designers are pushing this whole white space bloat think on us because they think it actually looks "kewl".
OK so I'm no spring chicken either. I still have a soft spot for the PDP11, after all.
Edge is part of the OS
Thinking back over the years to when Microsoft insisted that Internet Explorer was part of the OS until somebody proved that it wasn't, and that beta (I love using that term. It really winds MS up!) versions of W10 didn't have Edge at all and still managed to work normally (as far as any beta does), I wonder how true that actually is?
Why can MS not give customers what they want ?
It all comes down to this one question.
Microsoft insists on trying to "push the envelope" to try and produce something that will outshine its competitors but never realises that, in doing so, it breaks the experience for its current users. It puts all sorts of shiny things in there to compete with Apple or Linux or whoever then wonders why people complain.
It isn't that Apple or any of the Linux distros don't get this either. Goodness knows, as a Linux user myself, I have suffered all sorts of indignities where changes are made that actually break the deal. Anyone that knows me well enough or has read my past comments will know, for example, what my view of systemd is (and a hint for anyone else; systemd is the biggest pile of horse shit ever inflicted on Linux) but when you look at the number of people that will get upset about something like that measured against the number of people upset by Microsoft changing the UI, the Linux complaints will always be drowned out.
There are two problems here. First is that programmers are useless at listening to users. That's why they use analysts to find out things. Second, however, is the problem that marketing departments and executives tend to get far too involved in the design aspect. You get a product designed by committee long before the programmers ever get to the coding side of things.
Consider the number of euphemisms we now have to deal with. "Windows as a Service" (you can run Windows with our permission), "cloud storage" (We want your data, mwahahahah!) and so forth.
In my view, Microsoft have not listened closely enough to its customers. All it has done is heard the clamour and flung a few sops at us to keep us quiet, just as they did with Windows 8.1. It's quite obvious how they want things to go. Those bits are just the same as with Windows 8. They refuse to do what the majority want which is to provide a stable system with an intuitive interface that is secure (by which I mean that companies including Microsoft themselves have no right to pump its users for data).
Microsoft apologised for Windows 8 but don't appear to be serious about it.
Nooooooooooooo! Blue-Screen-Coffee-Machine? I'll shoot myself on site.
Funny you should mention that. I was wandering around the streets of a certain Essex suburb yesterday when I noticed one of those taxis with the advertising display on its roof. Displayed on said screen was a BSOD message.
OK, so it was a Windows XP BSOD but I got a giggle out of it!
Why does Windows do this? My Linux systems seem to install about two updates per week, and rarely have to reboot.
Actually, there's a slight difference. It isn't that you rarely need to reboot, it's just that you rarely get forced to reboot. The difference is that Linux (well, most distros I've come across) has the latest bits installed to disc but leave the current version in memory. If you can force the offending package out of memory so that it can reload, then fine. Chances are, however, that the system will not grind to a halt if you simply do nothing.
When they do, you have the option to defer the restart.
Much like Windows 7 and its predecessors. It seems as if successive Windows releases since W7 have not actually been upgrades at all. If all that can be said of W10 is "Meh", then why bother upgrading?
All OS suck donkeyballs, really
Ever hear the song "Every OS Sucks" by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie?
I've been trying to sort out a number of applications that I may need to try to resolve any problems that come up should any of my systems not work the way I'd want them to. That's besides making sure that they do not get signed up to the M$ Cloud and so forth.
Other than that, I'm in no hurry. Heck, I'm even typing this in on a Linux system using Firefox!
Do we really need to list all the reasons why we don't want to go back to Terminals....er...I mean running everything from the Cloud ?
It's worse than that. At least we knew where the main computer was that the terminal was attached to! (Well mostly!)
My coat is the one with the pocket full of replacement Wyse 85 power switches...
I really hope they have heard of security. I finished my time with a particular local authority doing (amongst other things) upgrades from XP to W7, a project that finished well before the end of life for XP because HMG decided that they would penalise us if we didn't (Gov Connect and all that sort of stuff).
So it was a real giggle when I heard that some government departments hadn't started upgrading by that time and were willing to ante up money to Redmond to keep their XP machines safe and secure!
Sounds like the head tech at your provincial government is a real wassock!
One question that really comes to mind.
Does Microsoft really still want desktop and laptop users to keep Windows on their systems?
A lot of the tidbits that have been coming out in the days before release sound an awful lot like some of the half-arsed ideas that they tried with the XBone, and look where that got them. Could it just be that they want rid of us altogether so they can launch another all-out attack on the fondle-market?
Current status: 3 x W7, 3 x Linux, 1 x W10 Upgrade app visible.
I think you mean retrieve your soul.
Wait until you read the EULA. Your soul is being held in a cloud somewhere and you only have access to it while you are online and while the licence is still good.
Actually I switched to nVIDEA from ATi years ago because an ATi card I got screwed up my WIndows system. That was an XP machine. I've rarely used ATi/AMD cards since at home though I did use the inbuilt ones on the HP machines I used in a couple of workplaces.
Generally speaking, I've heard all sorts of horror stories when it comes to graphics systems over the years from both of the big names. It seems that neither of them really consider the systems they would be likely to be working on, regardless of the OS or the architecture.
Agreed. My main Linux box is using that crappy Nouveau driver since the last time I tried the nVIDEA driver package, the whole X11 system borked!
However I can honestly say that what we have here isn't anything new. Windows 95 had driver issues on release and most versions went the same way at some point. That's why some folk hang back from the bleeding edge - we hate the sight of blood!
Are you suggesting Win 10 as a suppository?
Not to be taken if constipated.
You beat me to it. That is what I came here to say. In computing the word "Experience" now means "bloated tracking crudware from the marketing team".
Dammit! You've blown their cover!
Now we just have to wait and see what the next marketing term will be for stuff we wouldn't actually want if we knew what they were peddling.
This is a problem that will keep happening again and again until MS back peddle on this idiotic idea of forced updates or at least allow competent users the ability to revert to alert but don't download and hide updates.
I can see why Microsoft have done this but I can't help feeling that the only reason for making updates (as of reading this, it appears that "security" updates are still compulsory) is because the problem needs to be addressed that users don't habitually update their existing systems unless pushed.
The idea of making the updating of systems compulsory in this case, however, especially given the poor record of testing by Microsoft (let's not beat about the bush, if it is part of the Microsoft Update, it should be tested by Microsoft properly. Blaming third parties is just stupid) is just a lazy way to confront a problem that has been around since Windows Update was first incorporated into the system. Even WSUS is a bit of a cop-out as it puts the onus on the licensed company to do the final testing.
You could be right. Tomorrow's reg will probably start to fill with W10 sob stories and other giggles. Can't wait!
Probably be better starting off with a bong, methinks.
Yeah thanks for the advice but I think you're preaching to the wrong crowd and it's somewhat patronising.
Maybe so. Maybe not. You get all sorts here. I felt that it needed saying before somebody else came in and asked the obvious questions.
Oh, and to the other Anonymous Coward, that was a very lightweight troll if ever I saw one.
To be honest, I have no real urgent need to consider W10 because of the three machines I have that run W7 only one of them seems to have decided to allow me that option so far.
And yes, I can hear some of the complaints but having worked with Windows for some years, I know that stopping various nuisances in Windows has always been a passtime, both for third parties and for Microsoft itself (ISTR they are releasing an add-on that allows you to block upgrades and such following the huge amount of griping about their insistence that all Updates will be set to automatic).
My only advice is
On the minus side, there's no guarantee that Microsoft haven't done something worthy of a kuta this time. We won't know for certain until W10 is being used in anger.
No, a vendor may not force ANY EULA terms on a customer. That's been proved illegal.
Quite so. Remember that next time you click the button indicating that on any given bit of software.
I was going to go for one.
Remember to wipe up afterwards then!
I'll go for twelve months, IOW it'll bork just after the free honeymoon period. I know that's a bit optimistic, but...
You know what really scares me? That little Windows 10 logo currently sitting in the taskbar of both my parents' Win7 laptops.
Unless you have reserved your upgrade, I'm not sure if anything will happen. Thankfully only one of my three current Windows systems has done that so I'll let that upgrade first and see what happens.
After a full backup, of course.
Why would anyone want a 'fix' to stop important security updates & fixes?
Do you really believe that every "fix" that Microsoft puts out is correct, tested and infallible? Do you also believe that the Earth is flat?
That will depend on the terms of the EULA, and whether Microsoft decide to grant you that "right", I would have thought.
It's about time that over-restrictive EULAs were called out and challenged against the various consumer protection laws that exist. Microsoft aren't alone in putting that sort of thing in a EULA but they are a big user of such terms, thinking that they can successfully defend the terms after the fact because they can easily manipulate the legal process with their billions if some poor farty out there tries to challenge them.
There is a perfect fix for this already, it's called a Linux distro.
Except where users need to maintain Windows due to software lock-in. Believe me, I would love to see the back of Microsoft from all my machines...
Firefox is so dead. Stick a fork in it.
You mean it hasn't a Ghost of a chance at reviving?
(Sits back and waits to see if anyone spots the reference)
Edge is the new lean machine.
It is for now. Every new browser has been there right up until the standards change or a malware vulnerability shows up or some headbanger wants a change of the UI. That's where the bloat starts. Edge is new, streamlined and is catching attention but, like Chrome and Firefox before them, it is just a starting point.
Sorry but I doubt I'll be going this way any time soon. I rarely ever wear a proper watch - there's a clock on my desktop system, there's a clock on the wall, there's a clock on my phone, there's a clock in my car, there are clocks all over the place.
If I want to use the functionality of my smartphone, then I'm going to use my smartphone. I'm not spending the best part of £200 to have something on my wrist that does the same thing that my smartphone does, just as I don't pay out for even a cheap watch to tell me the time.
The article says that the various companies involved aren't having a great time selling smartwatches? Gee, I wonder why?
"We strongly recommend that you complete your migration to a supported operating system "
So they didn't actually suggest which operating system to use then? GREAT!!! I'll just whip out my RasPi and its copy of RISC OS 6 then...
Yes, I did read the other comments. I just figured that I needed a few more downvotes! ^_^
The fact I can avoid the "downgrade trio" of Gnome 3, Grub 2 and systemd for a few more years is a bonus,
Lucky you, though if I had the time and patience to remove all the functional changes that openSUSE put into versions since 12.1 to integrate systemd in such a way as to make it difficult to remove, I'd do it.
though I'm training myself up with a CentOS 7 VM to get used to them (Gnome 3 is highly unpalatable without the MATE Desktop to smooth the transition).
Good luck with that. I liked earlier versions of CentOS/RHEL though I haven't dabbled lately.
I could never get into KDE myself and I never understood why Linux couldn't settle on one desktop and only a few distros (250+ distros is sheer lunacy).
And there you answer your own question. Personally I like KDE (well KDE3 anyway) so I have kept going with it since I stopped using Linux as a CLI only solution. The reason why there are so many distros out there is because people build distros to suit different requirements. I preferred openSUSE partly because of its ongoing mainstream support for KDE as well as its flexibility but that doesn't suit everyone.
If there was one group or company that produced versions to suit any given situation or requirement, then all might be a little more organised but the nature of the beast is that each distro has a different situation in mind, whether it's the ultra lightweight Openbox, Puppy, Umbongo or heavyweights like SUSE or RHEL. If anything, I view this scalability as a strength.
Excellent trouble-free distros
I'd probably argue the toss as I only got into SuSE at version 6 and not every distro I ever used from SuSE/openSUSE was brilliant but when they were good (11.1 and 11.4 come to mind, for example) they were fantastic.
Ubuntu USED TO BE the best.
I wouldn't get too hung up about that. There seems, over the years, to have been a severe Ubuntu fanboi plague within the realms of El Reg which I have raged against myself with such phrases as Linux is NOT Ubuntu (or whichever other distro is being favoured).
One of the nicest things about many distros, Ubuntu included, is the fact that you do not have to be locked into a specific GUI. It has been many years since I first commented on such things and yes, I still use KDE3.5 on all my Linux systems, partly because I like it and partly because the direct replacement displeases me. I have that choice. And no, I don't use Ubuntu on any of those systems (though I sometimes try out new distros on Virtualboxes).
Actually the oldest install I still have would be my NetBook which I mentioned here some years ago following its upgrade to openSUSE 11.4 with KDE3.5.10. Guess what it runs now? Not bad for an £170 end of line Aspire One with an annoyingly slow 16GB SSD.
Oh yes, whoever it was, and it runs Firefox too.
Still, if this keeps on, people may end up switching to Linux, at least when they would otherwise feel the need to upgrade. (Hey, making the upgrade to Windows 10 free suddenly sounds like a great idea!)
I'm late to this, so sorry if I reiterate anything.
I've tried W10 and I'm a lot less confused than I was with any of the W8 stuff. Given that I was a fairly early adopter of W7 and still use W7 for a few things, perhaps that isn't too surprising. I tend, however, to spend a lot of time on Linux and I'm not really looking forward to Microsoft's future OS, not because it is bad/buggy now but because I am still not happy with some of the corporate ideals behind the OS. And yes, though I've been a long term Linux user, I'm not exactly happy about things there either.
It's quite obvious that W8.x was a failure because the company wanted to take over the tablet market as fast as possible without taking into account that the two incumbent providers were strong, embedded and unlikely to pull a "Sega".
W10 attempts to recover the lost ground but still insists on making overtures to the touch world which screws up the desktop for those of us with more traditional systems and, so it seems, reduces the experience (sic) for touch users as well. It all comes back to corporate greed - they want one product to satisfy everyone, hence making the marketing cheaper amongst other things. They want us to adopt the Store approach and sod the win32/equivalent side. They want us all locked into the cloud. Yes, W10 is free for the first year but has anyone considered the possible side costs involved with this?
And no, I shall not insist that Linux is the only way out, especially given the current push to systemd by all and sundry amongst other objections I have there (Hey! openSUSE! I'm looking very carefully at this "42" idea of yours and I'm not sure that it is much different to what Microsoft are doing with W10!)
Anyway, I already have one of my three machines ready for the upgrade. One that doesn't get a lot of use otherwise and one that I can happily reset should I need to, and I have Classic Shell and 8GadgetPack ready to roll if needed.
Hmm... I tried that as well on Windows 12 server for a little while. Then I tried installing Classic Shell on it. Got my sanity back.
Vista was EOL'd a long time ago, no free upgrade for you my friend
Vista EOL is April 11 2017.
Not that I expect M$ to consider a free upgrade for something that failed that hard though, for your sake at least, I hope I'm wrong.
Will I still need Classic Shell after the Win10 upgrade? That's the only real question I need answered.
It really depends on how you want to use your system. Microsoft have returned most of the function and functionality of the start menu to W10 - they just amalgamated TIFKAM into the second column of the menu that was used in XP, Vista and 7 for all the pinned/recently used applications.
However Classic Shell was used for more than just giving you a start menu...
Bullseye. In all that I've read and heard so far, this is one of the biggest reasons to be cautious about this.
Time is money.
Does that mean that time is evil?
Time to take the backup
Which some folk won't bother with because it takes time.
Time to install W10
Time to feed the fish.
Time to find out that it is a POS
Time to clean the tank.
Time to restore the backup
Time to swear like a sailor because you couldn't be bothered to take a backup (see above)
At $150/hour then yes it does become expensive
Is that the going rate these days?!?
Yeah, but I can imagine the rush to get it at the start. I can afford to wait a little until the initial rush dies down and the opening bug gambit has at least made itself known.
Just remember; every new version of Windows had problems somewhere. Quite often it was driver issues and non-supported hardware, often it was all the problems of inherited code when you tried to upgrade, sometimes it was software incompatibilities, and we don't quite know about some of the new features that might go boobies up in a fully working environment.
Of course there will always be those that insist on having the code on day 1 - these are important people as they do all the suffering through these problems which the rest of us can then pick up on when we finally get around to doing our upgrades.
Basically, this whole "alternating versions" meme is bullshit.
Not to mention boring. Every time they wheel out a new version, somebody revives it.