Sky loses pub footy case

TV et al

According to the EU, nationals of a country are free to watch a TV program wherever they may be in the EU without let or hindrance. This also applies to I believe any form of transmission, eg internet.

Now sky and others have been probably breaking the law on the methodology and also others over the copyright thing. Hopefully this will bring about the fall of EU sectionism and lack of EU freedoms being blocked by big money not getting things all their own way.

We should all badger the EU to get the same union rights as the US, why is it that a person in Illinois can get Florida radio and TV yet a French man living in Dover is not allowed to receive French TV and radio on the internet.

"7£"?

Second time in this comment thread that someone has failed to express the currency properly!

Pub Licenses are Different

You are quoting domestic packages, to show footy in pubs is another package and it's expensive. Have you ever noticed the 'pint glass symbol'? That is shown in pub broadcasts.

TV/SAT companies carving up the EU is wrong. The EU is meant to open boarders not close them. We should be able to watch TV from all EU states and buy packages from anywhere. SKY did a deal with Maggie to somehow grant exclusive deals to Ruppie.

Legal smeagal

That is the whole point of this case. Is it legal to have separate rights for each EU country for the same product? The whole point about the EU is that everything is equal.

If it goes some way to dealing a mortal blow to Murdoch, great. I like my football but being forced to pay an extortionate amount of money each year to the dirty digger really gets my goat, subsidising useless gits expensive lifestyles (ie the John Terry's of this world).

Satellite coverage

Any Satellite the Greeks are using will probably broadcast to all of Europe (and perhaps parts of North Africa). The Greek broadcaster does not have a choice about this. The only way they can limit reception is by limiting the sale of its decoders to within their own borders. This will not stop anybody from physically moving a decoder from Greece to a Portsmouth pub.

Theoretically the Greek broadcaster could buy and launch its own satellite with some sort of template that only allowed signals to reach Greece but this would be so expensive that they would end up bankrupt.

Greek Broadcasters

You are probably right, the Greek Broadcasters probably don't have the right to broadcast to Britain, which would mean that they shouldn't be selling decoders and cards to british addresses.

However, this case was about Sky claiming they could stop customers using a source other than Sky which isn't quite the same thing. This is a contract issue between Sky / The Premiership / The Greek Broadcaster, not a legal issue involving the customer.

Sky went after the wrong people, there was no way a judge would rule that a consumer couldn't use a competitors product given the whole point of the EU is to ensure freetrade within the EU.

Broadcast outside Greece?

Possibly someone more knowledgeable on the matter could correct me, but is the broadcast still actually made in Greece? Surely that's where the transmission originates, and the end user is just pointing their dish at the satellite? Is there anything stopping me buying a subscription in Greece and setting it up here?

But we are not dealing with Terrestrial TV

ITS a Satellite. Every satellite broadcaster in Europe broadcasts to nearly all of Europe. They have no choice because its a satellite!!

Sort of ...

The PL sells rights to a broadcaster, but they sell the right to broadcast those programmes to a particular territory (which is why, for example, the Sky contract says you should be in the UK; using a Sky box in France, say, is a breach of that contract).

And, in some countries those rights might cost more, depending on the popularity of the Premier League (or whatever else is being sold) and the circumstances in that country. For the UK in particular, the PL and its players have grown fat and greedy thanks to Sky's determination to beat other broadcasters off, and hang on to the rights.

In other countries, if there's no competition, then the PL might not get much for the rights, and so the local broadcaster can sell them for less to their own subscribers.

But all that's possible on the understanding that those broadcasters then don't sell subscriptions to people in other territories; and the Greek one is clearly quite happy to sell them to a Portsmouth pub owner. At which point, the PL steps in and says "Hang on, we thought we had the rights to that, sod off"

The EU already has rules that say you can't prevent reception in one country of broadcasts from another (with very few exceptions, which don't include this). The rights regime is the thing that's supposed to stop Greeks selling cards to UK residents, and it's that that is likely to be determined to be against the EU rules.

You're right that the Greek broadcaster doesn't have to sell at the same price to everyone; that's not at issue. They could charge more to a UK customer, for extra admin, or because they feel like it. But what the Advocate has said said is that, regardless of the rights, they should be able to sell to that UK customer, and the PL shouldn't be going round fining someone just for buying something from a country in the EU where it's cheaper than in the UK.

Title here.

I think the point is that as consumers within the EU, we can chose to purchase your widgets from any EU country. You as a company don't have the right to say "those widgets I sold in Greece can only be bought by Greek people and used in Greece".

Doomed? I'm not so sure

I'm really not convinced that Sky is doomed, as I hinted above.

I'm no fan of Sky, personally, and I think it will be great for viewers if they can get things cheaper. But while this may look like a slap in the face for them and the greedy sods of the Premier League, I wouldn't be so sure, just yet. It may turn out to be something of a pyrrhic victory for the consumer.

Ultimately, it will depend on the final ruling, and what the Premier League does next.

Best case for the punters, if selling rights by territory is deemed not allowable, is that the Premier League decides that they'll sell rights on a European basis, non-exclusively, perhaps one broadcaster per country. Ordinary punters will still be able to shop around the continent to find a suitable broadcaster and buy a package at the price that suits them. They may save money - but in fact, I'm not honestly sure how many people will do this, given that they'll probably need a second dish and receiver set up to do it.

Some will, sure - but how much will they save? If that Greek broadcaster can now only buy a package that includes the rights for the whole of Europe, will they be able to retail it quite as cheaply as they can at the moment? And will the saving be enough for fans to put up with the extra dish and foreign language commentary?

Worst case is probably that the Premier League decides to sell a single exclusive set of pan-European rights, to just one broadcaster, which may then sell on the rights within some territories, to local retail partners. Perhaps the EBU members could club together, but do you really think that's likely? Far more likely that Sky - with their existing operations in Italy and Germany contributing - would be the one group that snapped up the package.

Sky and the Premier League are pretty close, not surprisingly, and they will almost certainly be working out ways in which they can turn this to their advantage, no matter what the outcome. I know that's not a popular opinion (waiting for all the thumbs downs!), but they're certainly not going to shrug and say "Oh well, that gravy train's stopped, never mind"

Waiting for the News International response

Even now the finest minds of the Murdoch press will be trying to retain Sky viewers with a hearts and minds campaign based around a high-minded concept such as 'foreign telly gives you AIDS'.

I doubt

there will be a mass desertion. Most people arent interest in watching the match in greek.

Not so rewarding for the PL? Good news!

That can only be a good thing!

Less money going into the pockets of footballers, via the Premier League, will make almost everyone happy.

I think the last deal, where Sky paid £1.024Bn will be the high water mark for PL rights.

Absolutely nothing

This ruling is about the rights holder saying to someone "Ere, you can't buy that from Greece, you gotta buy it in the UK"

That's not the case with porn channels. It's not the rights holder stopping people from buying them, it's the government, essentially not allowing them a UK broadcasting licence. That's entirely separate from this case, and when it comes to "moral standards" the EU broadly allows different countries to set their own agenda.

The ECHR sometimes (eg gays in the military, anti-discrimination) does sometimes get involved in the moral issues, but only when a case is brought by someone, and it tends to follow, rather than lead on liberalisation.