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back to article Coders tip Google Android for eclipse of the Steve

Seventy-two per cent of developers believe that Google's Android is "best positioned to power a large number and variety of connected devices in the future," whereas only 25 per cent favor Apple's iOS, according to a new study. Appcelerator – the outfit whose Titanium dev kit was recently freed from the threat of Jobsian …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    That Prediction Will Realize Itself

    ...as soon as Google has a programming language of their own instead of that Thing Under Legal Threat From Mr Larry.

    Maybe Google Go ? Maybe a good C++ library ?

    Apple has made the wise decision to use Objective C instead of one of those "managed" slugs.

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  2. Pat 11

    It's like 1990 all over again

    Google = Microsoft, Apple = Apple

    The ages-old schizm carry on, develop for Apple, under Apple's rules and on Apple's hardware, or run free on Android, bend it how you like and run it on any old junk.

    Meanwhile, I wouldn't be buying shares in Microsoft.

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  3. Rupert Stubbs

    The question defines the answer

    Sure - ask what OS is likely to power "a large number and variety" of connected devices in the future, and Android is the most sensible answer.

    I don't think anyone doubts that there will soon be more Android devices than iOS ones - but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be the only ones worth coding for, or even the most profitable. If the question had been "What OS will generate the most profit for you in the future?", the answer would be rather different...

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  4. bob 46
    Jobs Horns

    Apple seriously worried

    Ha, on the same day that you have a news article about Apple being the second largest company in the world - I be they're bricking themselves about android!

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  5. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. jai

    statistics

    but you really need to also know what percentage of all Google developers are using Titanium and also what percentage of iOS developers are using Titanium.

    then you'll know whether you're statement of "Fifty-two per cent of developers" is correct, because, if it turns out that only 1% on each platform are using Titanium, then the difference between 54% and 48% could be really really small.

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    1. Blain Hamon
      Reply Icon
      Boffin

      The key words are Statistical Significance.

      (Disclaimer, yadda, I work for Appcelerator but don't represent them, I haven't asked Scott for info on the survey, as I've been in my hidey hole coding all this time.)

      The actual survey itself does note sample sizes, in general (2363) and individual charts (>1.4K-2K). If the selection is random enough, you can accurately predict without lining everyone up. While this survey was limited to Titanium developers, it's a rather safe statement that these people are more middle-of-the-road than those hardcore who know only Obj-C or Java.

      Come to think of it, there's 250K apps in Apple's app store. Even with the unlikely 1app:1developer scenario, the survey would be 1%. That may sound tiny, but compare it to the <0.022% of the Neilsen ratings sample size.

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  7. JaitcH
    Happy

    Apps will be the determinant

    The company I work for has now been working on pad replacements for some existing Human Interface applications and iOS and Android pads were purchased.

    Without a doubt the ability to create our own applications, and retain control of them, has persuaded us to follow the Android course.

    Apples decision to govern what their pads can run means we cannot use our application unless: (a) it becomes public or (b) we jail-break Apple products.

    Since we want to use standard off-the-shelf products our choices are being determined by manufacturer policies.

    I believe, eventually, this and App availability will determine the dominating OS and, at present, that appears to favour Android.

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    1. dave 93
      Reply Icon
      WTF?

      Custom business apps for iphone

      Google it and you get this as the top result

      http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/apps/in-house/

      Jeez...

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    2. Mike 117
      Reply Icon
      Paris Hilton

      Enterprise provisioning custom apps.

      Actually, JaitcH, that's just plain wrong information you're giving out there.

      If you want to deploy an application on ipad or iphone, the only requirement is that the users have itunes installed on their local machines. It's just a mechanism, it doesn't require the application to be public (i.e. on the itunes store), nor for the device to be jailbroken.

      More info, look here, read the enterprise provisioning profile stuff.

      http://bit.ly/bCqkrS

      Sure, there are other annoyances about enterprise deployment, but nothing a well organised IT group can't sort out.

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      1. JEDIDIAH
        Reply Icon
        Linux

        A total non-enterprise platform.

        > If you want to deploy an application on ipad or iphone,

        > the only requirement is that the users have itunes

        > installed on their local machines

        The 80's called. They want their outdated application deployment methodology back.

        > Sure, there are other annoyances about enterprise deployment

        That's putting it lightly.

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    3. Sean O'Connor 1
      Reply Icon
      Stop

      Ad Hoc

      Why don't you just do an Ad Hoc distribution? That's what it's there for. Have you not done your research...

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  8. Daniel B.
    Boffin

    Walled garden

    Apple's insistance on keeping iOS as a walled garden is hurting the iOS market share. Most of the iPhone and Android owners don't have a smartphone because they want a smartphone... they want a cool touchscreen device. In this matter, the Android handsets are cheaper than the iThing, and someone searching for a "touchy thingy" won't care about the OS and will go for the cheaper device. The ones that do care have been annoyed by Jobs' attitude with locking down the OS; the devs are pissed off because what's cool today may be banned tomorrow.

    Those who really need a beefed-up smartphone will actually be looking at BlackBerry, that other closed ecosystem that in fact manages to be more open than Apple. The Torch will probably keep their customer base with them, as it features the one thing that the iGadget lacks: a QWERTY keyboard. I would really wish for the newer iterations of Symbian and Meego to have some impact (even webOS), but I have my doubts on those platforms.

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    1. Sean Baggaley 1
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Way to miss the point.

      "Apple's insistance on keeping iOS as a walled garden is hurting the iOS market share. "

      Apple don't give a damn about iOS' market share. iOS is just a component. Apple sells *hardware*, not operating systems.

      25% of the market is plenty. Especially it's the *high-margin* 25% of the market. If Dell and HTC want to fight over the low-margin scraps, they're welcome to do so.

      2 1
  9. David Pickering
    Thumb Up

    hmm

    might also have something to do with the way apple treats developers?

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  10. Adam Starkey

    Re:Apps will be the determinant

    >Since we want to use standard off-the-shelf products our choices are being determined by manufacturer policies.

    >I believe, eventually, this and App availability will determine the dominating OS and, at present, that appears to favour Android.

    Except that for in-house apps, the enterprise license explicitly provides a mechanism for developing and deploying apps to corporate devices without use of the app store[1], and for the kinds of apps that are sold to the public, or other businesses, but are not publicly available, you have the definition of 'niche'.

    Apple's management of the app store *may* kill iOS, but it wont be for the reason you stated above.

    [1] http://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/enterprise/

    I'm surprised that during your evaluation process you'd missed this rather large detail.

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  11. James Chaldecott
    WTF?

    Concern about fragmentation?

    "But it would appear that devs are still concerned about Android fragmentation. Seventy-four per cent described Apple's iOS as the "least fragmented," with only 11 per cent saying the same about Android."

    That doesn't say anything about how concerned devs are. It just says thatWHEN ASKED A DIRECT QUESTION, devs think that android is most fragmented and iOS the least. That sounds to me just like sensible interpretation of the facts ("iron-fist control" == least fragmented, "open-source. do what you like. many, many differing devices with differing levels of OS support" == most fragmented).

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  12. Anonymous Coward
    Dead Vulture

    i filled in that survey

    and i find the article's last line a little naive;-

    "But we find that last bit hard to believe. Before Steve Jobs lifted his ban on code translation, we have no doubt that Titanium developers were very worried indeed"

    If you have anything to do with Apple for more than 5 seconds you realise that they call the shots and chop and change the goal posts whenever they like with little concern for developers or their customers. With that in mind you have to look out for yourself and this survey shows that a large amount of iPhone developers also develop for Android. When Jobs next pushes me away like a spurned lover (only to call me 'his developer' in some conference speech) then i will be prepared and waiting having quietly been moving to Android anyway. Most people using Titanium are ship-jumpers otherwise they would go to the time and trouble of learning obj-c.

    p.s. i did start to learn obj-c and its nice enough but tied to Apple so not reliably valuable as a commercial skill.

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  13. DrXym

    Android needs to maintain the momentum

    There are a raft of tablet devices in the process of shipping right now or in the next few months, but Android is still stuck with a compatibility test suite which expects feature sets half of these devices will not support, e.g. a camera, GPS etc. Consequently many of these devices won't ship with the standard market place app or Google's apps because they're not compliant. It's notable that ones that are compliant are basically giant phones which adds to the cost of devices. It'll get worse as Android creeps into set top boxes, alarm clocks / picture frame devices, tablets, home control systems and so on.

    I wouldn't buy a tablet with the uncertainty of compliance. IMO this is heading for a major cockup and sooner or later it's going to dawn on people what is going on. Google should be saying now what the roadmap is even if they're not ready to release 3.0 this moment. I am sure that Android 3.0 will resolve these issues, perhaps defining device classes / profiles to sort this out but at the moment things are seriously in limbo.

    I do believe that Android has the potential to power a range of devices. It's already proved that, but it needs to sort out the core featureset to ensure consistency and consumer trust in devices that use it.

    From a developer perspective Android is streets ahead of iOS, not least because the SDK is a free download that runs on Windows, Linux or the Mac through Eclipse. Compare to iOS where you need to fork out for a Mac before you can even write a line of code. Java is going to be familiar to more devs that Objective C too.

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  14. blackworx
    Jobs Halo

    Fanboy weighting?

    I'd put money on a good portion of the 25% who favoured Apple being fanboys who just backed their cult without actually considering the question, even though they're devs.

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    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      FAIL

      Fandroid weighting?

      I'd put money on a good portion of the 72% who favoured Android being fandroids who just backed their cult without actually considering the question, even though they're devs.

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      1. blackworx
        Reply Icon

        Yeah

        But yours is more of a long shot

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        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          FAIL

          Why?

          Because you assume that if someone likes an Apple product/service/app they are instantly a fanboy? So, using *your* reasoning, those that like android must be fandroids and freetards *because* they responded positively to that particular platform. Do you see how ridiculous that statement is? Probably not. Why? because are as smug and rabid as the fanboys that you scorn. Just pathetic...

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          1. blackworx
            Reply Icon

            Oh for pity's sake back down

            Since this is the second time I've attracted such rabid scorn for a tongue-in-cheek anti-Apple remark, I might have to append a disclaimer to any future such comments.

            It's not your fault I know; I didn't make it obvious enough that my comment was in jest, but if you honestly think I /truly/ believe all that - which, going by your nasty ad-hom, you do - then you have been arguing with idiots too long. There are people in this world for whom it's not a black and white issue and I suspect you're one of them, but you just got a bit carried away with yourself there.

            Either way there's truth in both angles, but the point of my second comment was that Android scores much lower on the cult-o-meter than Apple. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. I'm no fan of Android either (my opinion of it can be summed up in one syllable: "meh") but I've yet to encounter anyone jumping down my throat for making a cocky comment about it, or Google - and trust me I've made plenty of those.

            PS: Careful, or you'll wear out the FAIL icon.

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            1. Blain Hamon
              Reply Icon
              Badgers

              Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

              If they really were rabid fans, they'd be writing in Objective C or Java exclusively, not using Titanium, and wouldn't be in the survey.

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            2. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Stop

              "I'm sorry but that's just the way it is"

              How so? In my recent experience the level of fandroidism is at least as high as Apple fandroidism; see article of ZDnet or techCrunch OR here!!! Google apologists are just as numerous as Microsoft and Apple apologists. Saying 'Meh, but...' about Android is like saying, 'I've got friends from some kind of minority group, but...' besides, I never said I was a "fan" of any of 'em...

              "if you honestly think I /truly/ believe all that - which, going by your nasty ad-hom, you do" You gave no indication to think otherwise! What part of the comment would lead any reader to surmise that you were joking, or being sarcastic? (that's rhetorical BTW). Nasty ad-hom? Please! You may need to grow thicker skin. It's all 'I was only joking' and *then* you get all passive-aggressive with 'you were rude and mean about me'! Seriously...

              Here's the thing, why make the comment in the first place? Tongue-in-cheek comments are almost always said with some element of truth in them. Someone called you on it and you've realised how ridiculous it is, so you deflect by saying 'look everyone; this guy's being mean to me, look how silly his comment was. Let me pontificate about how more mature I am,' having made a bit of a puerile comment to begin with and an even more flippant second one! Don't berate me because of your own inability to click on an icon or understand *how* to use humour effectively on screen! It's got nothing to do with my not having a sense of humour *or* not getting your 'jape'. Sarcasm is an aural an visual thing in actuality. It rarely, if ever, works on screen unless you are explicit in which case it's kind of pointless. A disclaimer would be pointless; use the 'joke' icon, it's free...

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  15. Peter 39

    misleading

    'Cmon guys! Fer cryin' out loud!

    Article leads in ... "Seventy-two per cent of developers believe "

    Not until we read on to paragraph 3 do we find that "[t]he survey polled over 2,400 Titanium developers"

    Your editors can do better than this. And should. Your stories, and your site in general, are more useful when we can generally trust them. Being economical with the truth does not help you or us.

    The conclusions you reach may well be right but the evidence you give for it doesn't support the claim. Pointing to IDC doesn't do any good as the story linked is from April and no longer relevant. I'm not about to search IDC's site for the supporting info you might have quoted.

    Please ensure that your headlines and story are supported by the evidence you present.

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    1. Blain Hamon
      Reply Icon
      Boffin

      Yes and no

      (Still work for Appcelerator, still not representing anyone but myself.)

      There was a survey done around the iPad launch, but this recent one was done Sept 14-16, so to give a comparison, trend, what-have-you. By the way, http://www.appcelerator.com/company/survey-results/ gives several surveys taken over the year.

      While having pieces that center on Appcelerator is nice and flattering, it would be super-awesome to see surveys taken elsewhere. Understandably, these were surveys of Titanium Developers, who are more middle-of-the-road given that they're not writing their apps in pure Obj-C or Java. I personally would like to see other surveys to give a deeper context, especially asking questions that Appcelerator either didn't think to ask or were not in a position to examine.

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