back to article Essex leaps into bed with IBM

Essex County Council has confirmed it is outsourcing a big slice of services to IBM in a massive deal, despite union fears that this will cost jobs. Big Blue was named as preferred bidder for the multi-billion pound contract back in June and confirmed in early December. The story has hit the news today with a puff piece in The …

COMMENTS

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  1. jackharrer
    Thumb Down

    BS

    Yes, all cool and great. Except that workers here in UK pay UK taxes and contribute to local economy. And all outsourced ones don't do this. Plus IBM will find some nice tax avoidance rules so even less goes back. Outsourcing is bad for economy. Full stop.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Outsourcing

      ....is not always bad for the economy - in fact it can be very positive if managed well, off shoring does seem to be an issue.

    2. mike tucker
      FAIL

      You seem to be confused..

      None of IBM public section outsourcing deal have "overseas outsourcing" as part of the deal the deals usually involves TUPE of current staff and use of its UK based consultants who a big shunk have worked on similar projects before... who all pay uk tax

      1. SteveyG
        FAIL

        TUPE is all but worthless

        ... what you tend to find is that a year down the line, these employees will have their contracts "harmonised". Generally, the thing that changes is the redundancy terms. Then guess what happens after they've all signed?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The Joy of Outsourcing

      I wonder just how many utter failures it'll take before their like finally grasp the idea that outsourcing is a really bad idea? Though as long as someone's bonus rests on the "savings" made, I guess it'll never happen.

  2. Neal 5

    I particularly like this bit from the Times

    said Lord Hanningfield. The focus would be as much on outcomes as saving money, he added. “In future we won’t be specifying how a pothole is repaired but we will insist that there are no more potholes in that road for five years.”

    Living in my part of Essex, there'll be no change then, when they get a pothole, they dig the road up and then leave it, 5 years will definately be an improvement of some of the ones we have now, and for a few of us, it'll give us something to look forward to. And ECC 5 years to save for some TarMacAdam.

  3. Pete 2 Silver badge

    which is why council tax is so high

    > the very best quality of service for our residents

    Personally, I don't want the very best quality software (or services) I want my council to provide the absolute minimum that meets their requirements and not a single byte (or FTE) more. Top quality implies top prices. If you don't believe me, go shopping in Harrods. It means that top quality software will work under every situation and circumstance - not just the ones that are likely (or possible) in Essex. For example the "best quality of service" would have a contingency for dealing with a herd of Zebra invading the Bluewater shopping mall. Why should my council tax pay for that?

    As it is, they're not even capable of providing basic minima - such as road gritting, let alone "top quality" so I suspect that they'er just reading off the marketing blurb, which they seem to have swallowed - hook, line and zebra. No doubt my council tax will go up again next year in order to pay for all these "savings" their top quality services are making.

  4. Peter 46
    IT Angle

    I Would Have....

    ... cocked it up for half that amount...

  5. Tzael

    Unable to learn from previous lessons?

    I would have thought that by now public authorities such as councils, hospitals, etc would have learned that IBM and Fujitsu Siemens are huge black holes that suck up money and offer very little in return.

    As a voter and a tax payer I think this is one of those topics that is best brought to the direct attention of MPs, you know - those people who vote on our behalf for all matters relating to the well-being of our country. I don't live in Essex but I find it appalling that tax-payers' money is being used to continually line the pockets of IBM. Surely we've had enough failed deliveries and partial deliveries to realise that working with Big Blue (and Fujitsu Siemens although the article isn't about them) is not in our best interests?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Well they obviously didn't

    Use *us* as a reference site.

    (employee of another County Council!)

  7. Chris 96
    Thumb Down

    Bah!!

    Ok so initial tender quote is £5bn with a target delivery time of 3 years, so in real terms thats gonna be a bout £7bn delivered in about 5 years.

    If the history of these sort of things shows us anything, then it is that they invariably overrun on cost and time and underperform, or perform worse than the system they replace, because management think they know how things work and dont bother consulting the front-line troops who do the job day-in-day-out.

    No doubt there will be externally driven protocol changes, either during build or shortly after, that will require reworking of the system at additional cost.

    Experienced staff will become disillusioned, leave and be replaced by cheap incompetents who can barely spell their names or the words common and sense.

    Its all a big waste of my (as an Essex taxpayer) money and will only result in additional cost at a time when we are all being squeezed.

    It seems that the corporate solution to everything nowadays is to throw money at a problem until it either goes away or you can no longer see it behind the big pile of discarded notes. The more sensible solution would be to invest in the workers: give additional training so they can perform more efficiently, treat them like people so that they at least tolerate their job, and when a worker is unable to perform despite all assistance, declare them unfit for the job and replace them.

    Unemployment decreases, efficiency increases, the 'user experience' improves because staff are more inclined to be helpful, taxes are paid, workers spend money, the economy improves and all is wonderful...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Tzael

    "Surely we've had enough failed deliveries and partial deliveries to realise that working with Big Blue (and Fujitsu Siemens although the article isn't about them) is not in our best interests?"

    The cool thing is that it might make the whole thing far more visible to Joe Public. When things don't get done because the contract didn't specify them and the council has to spend a whole lot more money, they might get an idea of how terrible a lot of this outsourcing is.

    Is there anyone out there who ever has a good thing to say about outsourcing to the big guys, whether it's IBM, SAP, Fujitsu or Accenture? I've had one good experience on 1 site (and the customers were also happy), but in general, they're poor value for money.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IBM is a Merkin Company

    how is this good for the UK nation?

  10. Indianatone
    FAIL

    BIG FAIL HERE IN INDIANA

    Just ask the State of Indiana who fired IBM as people were not getting their benefits and the service was absolute crap. Endless call center loops and promised service which was not delivered. OUTSOURCING NEVER WORKS PEOPLE.

  11. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Down

    I get the theory of outsourcing

    But has anyone done a survey of how many of these projects have *achieved* their *stated* targets.

    My gut feeling is not many, and only after a *lot* of careful planning in house.

    But I doubt that will stop it happening, given the lure of performance related pay.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Oh dear...I spy trouble ahead

    Maybe Essex should have a loot at what is happening in Somerset following the transfer of 'back -office' functions to Southwest One (Joint venture company with IBM UK/Somerset County, Taunton council and Avon and Somerset Police). It has been beset with problems from the outset!

    As Essex has a Tory council maybe they should check out one of their west country MP's website?

    http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/ian/MOGGTHEBLOG.html

    http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/somersetwest/SAP.html

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