Telstra bins UK support staff

Server huggers

It seems that they are an endangered species.....

Moving forward

I am in Australia and I can say from my own experience and from conversations with others that Indian call centres are just not liked at all. There are a number of dislikes relating to them. First and foremost is the Indian accent, me and others have awful difficulty understanding what they say. Second, they are usually crap, they have no empathy with the caller so their only interest is to conclude the call, so, they read the script and that's your lot, don't enter into any discussion as they have no empathy and no experience of the product in question.

Also, I ask, why do PR people always seem to include phrases like moving forward, going forward, looking forward into PR speak? The use of 'moving forward' in this article makes for total nonsense.

Improved customer experience?

Excuse me but I can think of NO business that has improved its customer experience by offshoring it to India. Come on, someone please help me and tell me of one case where its actually worked.

Anyone tried Virgin Technical Support? You might as well ask your aged aunt for technical advice, because it will be as good and you know she makes a good cup of tea as a bonus.

Why do these companies lie, why don't they just say "We want more cash, more dividends, we are greedy business owners and we don't give a fuck about customer's experiences".

Stupid

When you have entire banks that sell their wares on the basis that they DON'T outsource their call centres, just what advantage do you think you're going to get by outsourcing? The outsourcing fad has *died* because, with information leakage, Data Protection policies, customer complaints, mistakes in processing, etc. it's not actually worth the bother.

If I were a Telstra customer, I'd just terminate the contract immediately on hearing this. I don't run servers in this country to be able to speak to a foreigner if it ever goes wrong and starts costing me money.

It's very simple - even Microsoft use English/Irish call centres for their English/Irish customers. It's the only logical way to do things. Anything else means that you looked at a column of numbers and chose the smallest, not that you actually *thought* the decision through. I don't know of ANYBODY who DOESN'T complain when they think they have been put through to a call centre in another country.

You're making the mistakes that EVERYBODY complained about companies making 5-10 years ago. Most have since backtracked and the ones that haven't have suffered as a result. It doesn't matter *what* it is, if I have a need to call you for information or assistance (purchasing, support, etc.) then you need to speak my language clearly, you need to be able to understand a wide variety of accents, you need to be able to understand what I'm saying (different to being able to speak/hear the language) and be able to have enough grasp of the company/products to actually *do* quite complicated things.

The day I phone my bank and get put through to a call centre is the day I close my account (in writing, to their UK Head Office). And it's an absolute pain in the arse to change banks. Now, how do you think your customers feel about that cheapy website or crappy server they host with you?

non uk call centers

i have suffered non uk call centers and will ask for a UK call center if i cant understand a word they are saying... which is most of the time!

gave up with HP's india call center and started using EBM! UK based and they do a dam fine job, same with toshiba via XMA (uk based) and found a uk based dell call center !

Hmmm...

"Our revenues exceed £9.4 billion and we delivered profits in excess of £1.845 billion last year."

So why the fuck are you outsourcing? Wankers!

The problem with outsourced call centres

...is that it assumes that the problem is something you have done, and can be fixed with a simple checklist.

My experience with Virgin technical support proves this. After a long conversation regarding my high packet loss (at some ridiculous cost per minute), the guy admits he does not have the facility to ping my router. What's worse, he would pass me onto a department who could perform a test, and claimed he would not support me because I run linux (even though the issue had nothing to do with machines on my network). I am no longer a customer of such a company because after weeks of calling, i could not get to speak to anyone who cared.

If telstra do the same thing, and don't have diagnostic facility, they are sending a clear message - they don't care about your problem.

Outsourcing turned me into a racist!

Not physically of course, I still have many colleagues, most of whom I consider good freinds who are foreign (sorry, of different race to me) but whenever i have to phone BT, if I get the indian call center I simply hang up, they are, as has already been pointed out script readers. No idea of what my problem is or how to resolve it and many of them can barely speak English or are so heavily accented that I have difficulty understanding.

I chose my bank, insurance etc on the location of the call centers. If I have a problem I want to speak with someone who speaks english in a clear accent (dont care if they are indian or italian or german or whatever so long as I (the CUSTOMER) can understand THEM)

I am sure that some companies could ofshore some remote operations (server monitoring etc) to anywhere in the world but if you are a company supplying a service to english speaking people in the UK your customer service reps should at least be able to speak clear english

I know my predjudices are my own fault and perhaps completley irrational. I know that the person in Mumbai call centre is trying their best but I cant help how I feel can I. Now who do I call to get compensation for being turned into a racist?

@Improved customer experience?

You asked : Lloyds Bank - outsourced phone banking to India a few years ago. Was fine, spoke to intelligent, well educated, polite people. OK, they had accents but the grammar was fine.

The trolls in Lloyds management were worried about NatWest's advertising and the call centres as UK based. Not helped by the subsequent illegal activity of a few criminals selling on data.

If we're all so patriotic, why are we buying so many Chinese goods ? How many companies do we give your money to that are really British ? Even Marks & Spencer - who prided themselves on having 90% of goods made in he UK in the 1980's are now shipping predominantly Chinese and Israeli made goods.

At least people get to vote and strike in India - a country that lost millions of soldiers fighting in the World Wars against out common foes. Are the complaints about Indians or just outsourcing - India today, many African states in the next decade...

Re: Stupid (Lee Dowling)

Sorry Lee, I'm going to pick you up on something. It's not necessarily "outsourcing" that you're against, (or maybe you are as well - I don't know/care), it's "offshoring". That's the term for when big businesses (usually US based) decide to move their business from US/UK/etc to some sweat shop in India (and someone said China is now getting into this particular farce).

What amuses me (very slightly) is that it's usually claimed that this is 'to improve the service to the customer", when what's meant that it'll be cheaper for IBM/HP/CSC/etc to deliver the service the customer contracted for - yes that's it, no freebies, no "value add", just the basics. I'm not aware of the price to the customer going down that much, so you've got to assume that the companies concerned are pocketing the majority of any saving.

And while you're thinking about this, spare a thought for the poor souls in the "1st World" that have effectively been told that either they're not delivering a good enough service, or that someone elsewhere is easily capable to deliver that level of service for a lot less money than you. And these companies wonder why their workforce is demoralised?

I'm unlucky enough (hence the AC marking) to work for one of these companies, and it really saddens me to get calls from (now ex-)customers who are complaining that they can't get the offshored replacements on the phone when they want, they can't get face to face meetings, the offshored folks won't answer a question without a charge-back code, etc. Basically all those niceties that the Europe-based folks used to do for them. To quote an exasperated comment made to me - "when am I going to see the improved service I was promised?"

I dare say that there's management stooges out there (like Matt Bryant - see his posting replying to the treacherous way the OpenVMS team have been dealt with - I'm an ex-VMS admin, so this annoys me) who'll accuse me of anti-Asian racism. This seems to be increasingly the way that the big bucks companies squash any criticism of offshoring. Speak out and you're quietly labelled as a 'white power' supporter or worse. Personally I think it immoral for these companies to go for minimum wage, rather than US comparable, wages for their offshore centres - a fair days pay for a job!

Of course, outsourcing companies can't insist on offshoring, as a customer you're 'always right' so you're quite within your rights to insist on retaining Europe-based support. Heck, if enough customers complain then maybe we'll see less of the K-Mart attitude to customer service (do the minimum for the lowest price). Why do you think that some UK-based orgs are trumpeting that they don't use offshore call centres - it's a positive business advantage that's why!

IT icon because (imho) most offshoring is done merely to put some $$$'s in the pockets of the directors. So yes Lee, I do share your distaste at the movement of jobs eastward. Rant over!

I didn't realise...

Telstra wanted to be bought out? Obviously they will be bought by a firm that doesn't despise it's customers so much. Perhaps they could sack the board now, to prevent difficulties later?

That'll be the bright spark who "thought" of the idea (that is, followed the crowd blindly) getting his coat.

@Anonymous Coward Posted Thursday 14th May 2009 12:36 GMT

Bingo!

The real problem is that the decision makers are usually non-technical people and are bean counters. All they see is the bottom line and how they can show that they made a decision that saved the company money. At least in the short term.

The real problem is going to hit these companies shortly. Customers are not stupid. If they don't like the level of service they are getting, they will walk. (Why do you think that Indian call centers are opening up centers 'onshoring' their services? )

Customers (Companies) that contracted for services that were 'offshored' will definitely renegotiate their contracts for lower amounts because they know that the services are not being provided by local talent but by cheap disposable labor.

This is a negative downward spiral because if you don't drop your prices, your competitor will. Damn the SLA because their weasel wording lawyers have made a mockery of what they are guaranteeing to deliver.

With respect to the next AC, again spot on. Offshoring increases the potential risk for IP theft leaving the end customer out to dry. Not all countries have the same criminal code or data theft protection laws. Your ID could be stolen by an overseas worker and you'd have no way of knowing. Here in the US, California enacted a law requiring companies to immediately warn their California customers of any breach of their systems. Of course if their systems and staff are in India, how often do you think that the US based company is going to find out about a breach?

Sorry, but for the record I'm not a bigot but that I do see the risks and the problems caused by 'offshoring'.

typical racial bigtory

Some how cacausians world mostly want only cushy IT jobs, there will be uproar when ever there is outsource of jobs INDIA. but i never heard any uproar any minial job in their country outsourced or done by foriegn national. i wonder why? may be these folks never did any hard work or think SMARTNESS is comes with race?? STOP whining !

I hate oursourcing.. not indian guys

Out sourcing to india annoys the crap out of me, because of the low skill set, and service you get from the guys in the call centre. I only call them when I have a serious problem, and I always end up talking to the local guys anyway.

That being said, I have worked on deployment projects with some fantastic indian guys, as soon as you re assure them that its ok to have an opinion, show some brains, and take charge, they are brilliant. (Ratan, your still awesome mate ! :D )

I have worked with ex call centre outsourced guys, and its the environment they work in that does it. They are pretty much given a shock collar, and stopped from showing anything approaching brains.

Outsourced call centres are all about call volume per worker.. not resolution time or customer happiness.

Phorm

Well since this outfit host Phorm what else do you expect?

Call India and pray

that you get someone who can speak understandable English.

I have suffered two bouts of dealing with Indian "help" desks,

1. Microsoft . To get a re-activation Number. God , what a struggle to understand ,what sounded like a Peter Sellers impersonator.

2. Hewlett-Packard . Problem installing new printer. Usual struggle to understand , plus I was told I had a non functioning USB card and to replace it.

It was wrong- My friendly computer man said that Windows XP was the problem,and after reinstall

the printer worked.

I will not purchase anything that has India as a site for customer service

Now use Ubuntu instead of MS .

re adnim

"no I haven't thought through this statement"

Well that sounds like a perfect new labour law then:)

Buy yourself a swimming pool on expense's immediately

Monopoly

Unfortunately Telstra is a monopoly & so they will get away with abusing its customers. It would make a slight difference moving to a different company but the problem lies in that every competitor hangs off the Telstra network which when you consider the size of OZ, leaves the competitors in a weakened position.

Most companies will continue to use Telstra because there are so many places that you just can't get anything else. Telstra treats its customers poorly (understatement) & its workers worse. Over the time of Trujillo it hasn't even provided well for its shareholders. Fortunately Trujillo is going very soon & Telstra has got a lot of work to do to improve its reputation which was destroyed by Trujillo.

As for technical support, this should be provided by Australians, not the British nor Indians but it's cheaper.