back to article Confirmation of who constitutes average whisky consumer helps resolve dispute

The average consumer of Scotch whisky is reasonably well informed and reasonably observant and circumspect member of the general public who has an average level of attention, the EU's General Court has confirmed in ruling over a trade mark dispute. The determination by the Court helped whisky manufacturer William Grant & Sons …

  1. Dwarf

    Raise a toast

    To a little common sense from the legal system.

    1. JetSetJim
      Pint

      Re: Raise a toast

      Part common sense (the average whisky drinker is an average person, on average) and part head-scratcher - I'm interpreting this as "no other whisky maker may use 'Clan' in their branding as it may be confused by a humble whisky drinker with 'Clan McGregor' branded whisky".

      If that's the case, then I give you:

      Clan Campbell

      Clan Fraser

      Clan Denny

      Or is it just "Clan", in which case I give you The Clan Malt.

      Now I'm confused, and I drink whisky. Might have to have one or two to settle the nerves...

      1. CustardGannet

        @ JetSetJim

        ...At quarter-to-twelve on a Tuesday ? No wonder you're confused.

        (Just joking - I'm struggling with the legal niceties too.)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @ JetSetJim

          What are you implying? Isn't a man entitled to a wee dram before his lunch? Have you ever met any journalists??

          1. keithpeter Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: @ JetSetJim

            "Isn't a man entitled to a wee dram before his lunch? Have you ever met any journalists??"

            @Archtech: perhaps we are harking back to the previous century. Current journos are quite abstemious in my experience.

            Coat: Mine's the one with the shorthand pad full of teeline

      2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: Raise a toast

        "Clan" just means "family", so I would read this as meaning companies can register names containing the word Clan, just as you might trademark "Smith & Son Marmalade". What they can't do is have exclusive rights to "Clan" on it's own, which seems eminently reasonable.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Raise a toast

          I still chortle at the memory of Sun Microsystems telling the inhabitants of Java that they were allowed to use the name (trademarked by Sun, of course) when referring to their island. If any of the inhabitants of Java ever heard of that portentous pronouncement, I hope they greeted it with some choice specimens of Indonesian vernacular.

      3. Blank Reg

        Re: Raise a toast

        They had a similar issue with the use of the word "glen" in Glenora distillery's "Glen Breton" single malt whisky. Despite the label not mentioning scoth anywhere and clearly saying made in Canada along with a big red maple leaf.

        1. Hollerithevo

          Re: Raise a toast

          And there is nothing more Scottish than Cape Breton Scots-Canadians. Seriously. They out-Scot the Scots.

      4. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Dr_N

    Blended

    Clan McGregor isn't even a single malt. So hardly a connoisseur's choice.

    1. Phil W

      Re: Blended

      While I could easily be called a whisky snob, ruling out a whisky immediately because it's blended malt has it's flaws. I agree that in 90% of cases blended malts are foul, there is the odd exception.

      Blending malts is actually a perfectly reasonable thing to, it's no more obscene than switching to different barrels during maturation to achieve a different flavour. The key point with blending malts though, is to pick the right malts not just throw any old shit together in a bottle a call it "Finest blended whisky".

      Supermarket own label piss, and stuff like Bells and Teachers is only suitable for use as a cleaning fluid. But then there are things like Monkey Shoulder which while technically a blended malt, is blended by people who actually know what they're doing which is pretty decent.

      In general I'd always choose a nice single malt first, I'm always open to bribes that have a Balvenie label on them, but I'd certainly rather drink a bottle of Monkey Shoulder than throw it away (which is what I'd most likely do if someone gave me a bottle of Teachers).

      Also the other blended piss does serve a purpose, it gives the idiots who like to mix "whisky" with coke something to use instead of wasting a perfectly decent malt.

      1. Alien8n

        Re: Blended

        @Phil W - never really been a fan of whisky, much rather have a good bourbon. And by that I don't mean a bottle of Jack Daniels (which is neither good nor bourbon). That said, I do drink Jack Daniels, but that's more down to the price and the fact that my favourite bourbon is increasingly rare to find (varies between 50 to 75 squids whenever it does show up on the speciality import sites).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Blended

          Is that because you are not Scottish? I would be inclined to agree with the famous proposal that no Scotch should be exported from Great Britain unless inside a Scot. (Originally it was "Scotland", but as I live in England...)

          Let them drink Japanese Scotch...

        2. Paul Woodhouse

          Re: Blended

          Nothing wrong with JD... its actually a very nice example of a whiskey, the Single Barrel is especially worth the dosh, although that Sinatra Select stuff aint....

          Obviously there are other very nice bourbons and whiskeys out there...

      2. Dr_N

        Re: Blended

        +1 for the Balvenie. Probably my "go to" single malt whiskey in many of its guises.

        (Google The Cotswold Distillery for a new start whiskey maker in the England. They should have their first production ready next year.)

      3. Paul Woodhouse

        Re: Blended

        ahh... but Monkey Shoulder is a blended malt and doesn't contain any grain whisky like most blends do..

      4. keithpeter Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Blended

        @Phil W

        "Supermarket own label piss, and stuff like Bells and Teachers is only suitable for use as a cleaning fluid."

        Actually, I quite like a good measure of supermarket grain piss in my no-name ground coffee on mornings this cold. Gets the circulation moving and no sense wasting the good stuff.

      5. Sgt_Oddball

        Re: Blended

        Lately I'd say there was a Renaissance in blended whisky since the likes of compass box came onto the scene. They even go so far as to inform not only of the whiskys in the blend but of the staves used (they ezpeirmented with mixed woods and changing cask lids lately).

        You just need to find a good liquor merchants who stocks such finerees.

    2. Alien8n

      Re: Blended

      @Dr N - I believe that was their argument in court.

    3. Dabooka

      Re: Blended

      While we can all debate our favourite tipples to the cows come home (or end upside a £5 note), I think the points raised a valid. Some excellent blends out there, and often better than singles presented from some very well established distilleries.

    4. Velv
      Headmaster

      Re: Blended

      Technically, unless it's the outturn of a single cask, even Single Malt is a blend. It just happens to be a blend of casks produced from the same distillery.

      1. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Blended

        I won't doubt the word of fellow commentards, that blended whisky is probably very good and all, but... "Monkey Shoulder"? Really?

        That name sounds like it was taken from a "hip" microbrewery. Seriously, those stupid "trendy" names for beers get on my nerves. They make me want to punch a mustached hipster in the balls.

        Now get off my lawn!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Blended

          "What's in a name?"

          Nowadays, whatever the marketing department chooses, for their own deep and dark reasons.

        2. Paul Woodhouse

          Re: Blended

          Monkey Shoulders quite nice, Cutty Sark Prohibition is another blend I quite enjoy a little of now and again..

        3. IfYouInsist

          Re: Blended

          @A. Coatsworth: Oh come on, "Dead Pony Club" and "Tactical Nuclear Penguin" are superb names no matter what you use them on!

          1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
            Joke

            Re: Blended

            Also "Sink the Bismark" goes down particularly well at certain EU meetings..

        4. Phil W

          Re: Blended

          ""Monkey Shoulder"? Really?"

          Yes really, apparently it's a historical term from the whisky industry for a condition the malt turners would get from using their arms heavily all day, where their arm would hang like a monkey's. Not just a weird 'hip' phrase in this case, presuming it's true.

    5. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: Blended

      Well there are blends and there are blends...

      Not long ago I attended a whisky tasting. The host told us about one of his hobbies. He lives about half of the year on Islay. When he's there, he meets with a couple of friends, usually 4 to 6 people. Everyone brings a bottle of single malt. Everyone concocts a blend using the bottles they brought. The blends are extensively tasted until the best blend is determined. The guy who made the best blend on that evening gets all the bottles.

  3. tiggity Silver badge

    buckets

    I'm not a whisky drinker, but other half is. When I'm getting her a prezzie bottle of whisky & ask preference, it's never brand name but a price point (single malt) and a location e.g. Speyside (that way it sets a price point (hopefully approximating to quality) and an indication of the type of flavour (I'm told that generally a particular area has distinctive flavour elements - other half long knows asking me to get something with a particular flavour be it smoky, peaty etc. is far too fraught with screwup possibility)

    That way partner gets a balance of some element of surprise & some control over the whisky flavour & quality.

    I'm not convinced by average drinker of anything as being useful, for most things (be it coffee, wine, beer, whisky) some people will be enthusiastic and knowledgable, others "meh", there will be a whole lot of different knowledge "buckets" to find a spot for different drinkers.

    For most things, the more knowledgeable will, by definition, be smaller in number anyway.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "the Court admitted some Scotch whisky consumers could be classed as connoisseurs"

    ... as they must drink a lot

  5. Stoneshop
    Holmes

    Variable

    "The average consumer of Scotch whisky is reasonably well informed and reasonably observant and circumspect member of the general public who has an average level of attention"

    These parameters are strongly inversely correlated with the quantity imbibed of the fluid concerned.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Kudos to Speciality Drinks for coming up with such an audacious argument: it's fine to tread on someone else's trademark, as long as the people buying the product are especially clever.

    I suppose the flip side of that would be that The Sun newspaper could sue a butchered zebra for trademark infringement, on the basis that their typical consumer would have a hard time telling them apart.

  7. Moosh
    Boffin

    Isn't that shooting yourself in the foot?

    To claim that your customers are "highly discerning", then in the same breath say that they will think a drink produced by a different company is the same as yours just because it also has "Clan" in the name?

    1. Hollerithevo

      Re: Isn't that shooting yourself in the foot?

      As a keen single malt drinker, I think I would notice (a) if it was a blend and said so right on the label (b) if it said 'Clan Hogmanay' or similar on the label. So a discerning drinker (she said modestly) would notice that Specialist weren't pushing anything I'd be willing to put in a glass.

  8. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Connoisseurs my a***

    Connoisseurs my a***. At least in Eastern Europe, ex-Soviet Union and large portions of the 3rd world.

    Once upon a time whiskey there was imported rarity unavailable via normal retail channels. It was given as a "lubricant" to sweeten a deal, had special place on the wedding table and till this day is essential part of the a special variety of Connoisseurs' diet. The FAT NECK Connoisseur. The one that comes to you to collect the debts you are behind on. None of this lot can distinguish a single malt from blend and for them mass production like Johnnie Walker is The Whiskey.

    Does Scotland like to admit it or not the majority of its production ends up down the throat of such "Connoisseurs". They have the buying power today and they buy most of the annual production. Compared to that the real "Connoisseur's choices" are a microscopic quantity. As far as ridiculous arguments for a court decision this probably takes the prize of the year for maximum ridiculousness.

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: Connoisseurs my a***

      Whiskey is not Scotch, blended or otherwise.

      The Scots spell it whisky. It's all those benighted foreigners who label their foul brews whiskey.

  9. Tim99 Silver badge
    Windows

    Simpler choices

    After 50 years of drinking whisk(e)y, I think I have just about got it sorted, but I might be wrong: For a special occasion( my birthday?); or Smith's (to share with friends); and a good everyday blend found in many pubs.

  10. Millwright

    As any fule kno, Scotch comes in several levels of desirability. So does non-Scotch whisk(e)y but that's another discussion.

    Sub-basement: Nasty blends of industrial grain alcohol with a meagre admixture of the cheapest, roughest malts. [Covers nearly everything that isn't labelled 'Malt'.]

    Basement: Somewhat malt-heavier blends, often heavily marketed and usually at a price premium exceeding their value. Major example: Chivas Regal.

    Ground floor: Vatted or blended malts. No nasty grain spirit. Vary from nigh-undrinkable to very good indeed. An example of the good stuff: the regional blends from Douglas Laing, like Big Peat.

    Upper storey: Single malts. Vary from fairly bland but non-poisonous to distinctly characterful, complex and delightful. Region and style according to taste of course, barring the next level.

    Penthouse: Islay.

  11. Mark 85
    Unhappy

    It's a pity

    It really is. The SPB could have a series of "drink-offs" to find the best whisky but since the sad demise of Lester no one has taken up the challenge.

  12. David Roberts
    Holmes

    Clan

    Is a scented pipe tobacco in a tartan pouch.

  13. Long John Brass

    Got hooked on Scotch with...

    Glenmorangie. Glen Livit passable as are some of the Irish Whiskeys :)

    1. Roj Blake Silver badge

      Re: Got hooked on Scotch with...

      Glenmorangie is my go-to single malt, but I would also recommend Old Pulteney. It's kind of like a more maritime version of Glenmorangie.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nobody should be allowed to "own" a dictionary word

    same applies to virgin and easy. Fine to coin your own word (Easyjet) or trade mark a pair of words (Virgin media). It would be fun (but expensive) to try registering "easy virgin" as a trade mark.

  15. AndyDoran

    How about the Craft Beer Clan of Scotland, who brew a series of whisky barrel-aged beers. Would that fall foul of the trade mark "Clan" for whisky?

    Maybe we need more lawyers.

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