US government wants Microsoft 'Irish email' case reopened

Re: Surely they already have it

Funny how the US government pretends not to have all this data already, having constructed its giant data farms years ago

They have to keep up this pretence to make it appear privacy isn't undermined in the whole country. Making that too visible would put the whole of Silicon Valley at risk and that's not just a lot of money, that's a lot of campaign contributions at risk!

If you look at the actual substance of Privacy Shield it's clear to see it's but a mirage..

Re: Surely they already have it

There's also the evidence issue - you can't use something illegally obtained as an evidence in a court case. It may not be allowed, and you would have exposed your data gathering capability uselessly.

It may be they have intelligence that the data they need are stored there - but they need an usable evidence and want also a re-usable shortcut to obtain it, fully ignoring the damage to the US image around the world.

Re: Surely they already have it

"but entirely within the control of the U.S.-based company”."

"As long as you have a US based HQ you'll be at risk from legal leverage: the not unreasonable assumption that you have the control and power to demand data from a subsidiary."

As I understand it, Microsoft recently spent a lot of effort making sure that data is under local control, and that to get access to data in say Ireland would require the involvement of employees in that jurisdiction. So no longer within the control of a US based company....and If Microsoft US asked an Ireland based employee to do something that broke EU law, they would understandably get refused...The primary purpose of these changes is presumably precisely to prevent such judicial overreach - and to reassure sensitive non US customers.

Re: users don't control where data resides?

Of course, Google, MS, et al could simply offer a user tick-box choice of data centre jurisdiction and side-step that argument.

But more realistically the best option is not to store any important data on US companies' servers unless you hole the encryption keys. So no web email, etc, where it has to be plain text at the cloud end to access.

Re: users don't control where data resides?

>I've chosen to not use those services and instead opt for a private service which suits my taste.

Yes, you work in IT ... d'oh! Joe Public cannot ...

is it not more about setting a precedent whereby feds can just slap one warrant on a US company and force it to hand over data wherever that company has placed it, without having to deal with legal treaties for other countries?

same overreach though.

They have to have a case

Not just that. In order to use the any of the legal assistance treaties they have to have a case.

They cannot just go on a random fishing expedition protected by a gag order and approved by a kangaroo court.

"Which means plenty of paperwork and getting it right with t's crossed and i's dotted and other such things that your typically lazy bureaucrat doesn't want to do."

It also means having to provide a pro facie case. Either they didn't have that or were too secretive to put it forward.

What happens the day China takes a leaf out of USA's playbook and demands that the Chinese subsidiary of Boeing gives them information located at the US office of Boeing? Would USA still think this is a good idea?

Of course. Whatever the US does is by default always good and serves The Free World (stop laughing, they really believe this). Whatever China does is always bad, even if it merely copies the US, be it economic espionage or rendition, and they will always make "victims" instead of "collateral damage".

/snark

While a subsidiary request could be refused by the HQ, think what would happen if a foreign-owned US company on US soil would be asked to hand data about US citizens by the owner's foreign country, with the same arguments used by the DoJ. Say for example the European authorities tells FCA, to hand data about someone at Chrysler... or Finmeccanica about someone or something at DRS (which is also a defense suppliers).

Guess you would see any US politician enter full "Trump-mode". Guess people at DoJ should look for psychiatric help, they entered a megalomaniac stage.

Re: If the DoJ wants access to US citizen data...

If the DoJ wants access to US citizen data it has to force them (and the company managing them) to store those data on US soil only - if that's constitutional.

I can't really see how the DoJ can have access to data managed by US companies (or their foreign branches) and stored elsewhere, without colliding with many jurisdictions abroad.

Incorrect. This is why US tech companies avoid mentioning legal issues - they KNOW they have a problem, and it's not one that can be fixed overnight.

Soon the only thing America will be trusted with will be High Speed pizza delivery.

Are you sure they can be trusted with that?

Sorry, I never trusted American pizza - another thing they believe they knew more than the original makers, and turned into an ugly mess by megalomania.