Holding it wrong
'My REPLACEMENT Samsung Galaxy Note 7 blew up on plane'
A replacement – and supposedly non-exploding – Samsung Galaxy Note 7 caught fire on a crowded aircraft today, we're told. Passengers on Southwest Airlines Flight 994 headed for the exits after a Galaxy Note 7 went into meltdown minutes before takeoff. The handset, owned by Brian Green of New Albany, Indiana, caught fire and …
COMMENTS
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Thursday 6th October 2016 13:51 GMT d3vy
Re: things that make ya go hmmmmm.
"phone was replaced at an AT&T store two weeks ago"
Replaced?"
I saw another report on this where the customer shows the box with the little black box on the label showing that it is indeed a fixed model and shows the result of putting the IMIE number into samsungs recall check which states that his phone is not subject to recall.
It is possible that this is a coincidence, unrelated to the first batch of exploding phones, he might just have been unlucky.
Li-Ion batteries can catch fire, we know this, it doesnt happen that often and when it does rarely makes the news, however at the moment because its samsung its big news...
So he is either very unlucky... or samsung are in deep poo.
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Wednesday 5th October 2016 21:47 GMT cambsukguy
Possibiities
> If the Greens are correct, and the phone was a replacement model
1. They are lying in order to make mischief, presumably knowing that Samsung would not sue them for instance.
2. They got a replacement but some idiot accidentally gave them an 'old' model.
3. They thought they had replaced it but were having a dream and it never really happened.
4. They replaced it and the new battery is as bad as the old one.
Give the supposed rarity of the issue, it is amazing that we keep hearing about this happening on airplanes. Obviously, airplanes are dangerous places for it to happen so we hear about all of them I suppose. it must happen quite a lot then - unless pressurised aircraft make it worse.
I think 2 or 4.
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Wednesday 5th October 2016 23:26 GMT the spectacularly refined chap
Re: Possibiities
Personally my first thoughts are a variation of #1, he didn't bother to get the phone replaced, they are lying, but not to cause mischief, but to doubly cover their own backs lest any allegation of negligence is pointed at them for taking the phone on the aircraft knowing it to be potentially risky. This is backed up in my mind by the wife's follow up comments that it was "doing what the other one was doing".
So he's had two phones and they have both caught fire? That is either incredibly unlucky or altogether too convenient.
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Tuesday 11th October 2016 14:13 GMT Stevie
Re: Possibiities
Personally my first thoughts are a variation of #1, he didn't bother to get the phone replaced, they are lying, but not to cause mischief, but to doubly cover their own backs lest any allegation of negligence is pointed at them for taking the phone on the aircraft knowing it to be potentially risky.
It appears that you owe the gentleman an apology, Mr Chap.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 10:31 GMT SuccessCase
Re: Possibiities
The photographic evidence shows it was the replacement model. The battery had the replacement model identifier on it and the box had the "sticker" on it that identifies replacement phones. Evidence here:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/5/13175000/samsung-galaxy-note-7-fire-replacement-plane-battery-southwest
So this shows Samsung are up to their usual PR managment by deliberate obsfucation. The Samsung PR department wont be so happy with the last sentence in the article:
"He has already replaced it with an iPhone 7"
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Thursday 6th October 2016 18:42 GMT BillG
Re: Possibiities
Give the supposed rarity of the issue, it is amazing that we keep hearing about this happening on airplanes.
Because when it happens on airplanes there are plenty of witnesses, making it more viable for news, as compared to catching fire at home with only family around (family are unreliable witnesses).
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Thursday 6th October 2016 08:21 GMT Charles 9
Re: re: you've still got some time before it combusts
"But is it enough time to get the battery out or only enough to have your hands hideously burnt?"
It usually is, as the battery isn't THAT hot yet. I've done it with an S4 twice, an S5 once, and have a spare handy for a Note 4, and I won't buy anything newer until it has a removable battery.
Still, I wonder what'll it take before legislation forces the issue? When an exploding phone kills a family overnight in a house fire?
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Saturday 8th October 2016 15:38 GMT Charles 9
Re: re: you've still got some time before it combusts
No, because I've also had to to do it with LGs and with HTCs. It's just that Samsungs are my current hookup because they offer the most of what I ask for (decent amount of good-quality features, case- and shield-friendly, removeable battery, and MicroSD slot). In any event, the S4 in question is over three years old and the S5 was acquired used meaning the battery there had been around the block. I don't expect these batteries to last forever; no battery I've ever owned, alkaline, nickel-based, or lithium-based, ever do; that's what we have to live with. And that's why I insist on them being removeable to maintain the device's long-term longevity, as it's usually the quickest thing to wear out.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 09:47 GMT katgod
Replacement batteries
One of the big problems with replaceable batteries was that people would look for the cheapest replacement battery they could find. Often the replacement battery was a 3rd tier battery manufacture that made batteries that caught on fire and had poor quality control. If everyone only bought the best batteries then the replaceable battery is a good idea but that is not how people think.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 14:09 GMT d3vy
Re: Replacement batteries
"It is used in laptop batteries. If the battery id is not recognized it will not charge it."
Quite, Had the same thing with laptop chargers, Picked up a friends HP charger at work instead of my dell one, Spent the rest of the day swearing at it before I released the mistake, It would power the laptop but not charge it!
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Friday 7th October 2016 15:04 GMT David Nash
Re: Replacement batteries
It's not fair blaming consumers because cheap batteries blow up or catch fire. Batteries shouldn't blow up!
If making them cheap makes them blow up, the suppliers are negligent.
It's reasonable to think that buying something cheap is safe, even if of low quality.
If I bought a cheap battery, and yes I have done in the past, I would expect it to have a shorter working life than a "proper" one. I wouldn't expect it to endager my life just because it's cheap.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 15:16 GMT Grunchy
Re: Replacement batteries
Let's say my iphone dies and the battery is shot, so I have it dismantled and the battery replaced. And this is possible to do! So what battery goes in there, one from Apple? or one from some other guy? I'm going for the cheaper one. But what consumer protection do I have now?
So in conclusion, companies that make unsafe batteries need to be sued out of existence, and the faster the better.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 20:56 GMT Charles 9
Re: Replacement batteries
"Let's say my iphone dies and the battery is shot, so I have it dismantled and the battery replaced. And this is possible to do! So what battery goes in there, one from Apple? or one from some other guy? I'm going for the cheaper one. But what consumer protection do I have now?"
I think pretty much zip given you opened a non-user-serviceable part and essentially voided whatever warranty you had.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 09:08 GMT Ruairi Newman 1
No, no, no, stop.
The fuckers will ban all phones from being used on aircraft with the usual knee-jerk "look-everybody-we're-doing-something" crap that stems from stupid and unimaginative bureaucracy in a litigious society.
I don't want to be told I can't use my phone in flight mode as a music player on my next flight!
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Thursday 6th October 2016 09:15 GMT Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese
RE no, no, no, stop
I have been on 4 flights in the past couple of weeks, with different airlines. Each one made announcements that once on the aircraft, phones must be switched to 'flight' mode....except for Samsung Galaxy Note 7 devices which much be switched OFF (and if you have one in the hold, tell the crew now, as the only place they can be carried is in the cabin)
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Thursday 6th October 2016 21:00 GMT Charles 9
Re: RE no, no, no, stop
"Each one made announcements that once on the aircraft, phones must be switched to 'flight' mode....except for Samsung Galaxy Note 7 devices which much be switched OFF (and if you have one in the hold, tell the crew now, as the only place they can be carried is in the cabin)"
The FAA forbids lithium-based batteries from being transported as cargo without special packaging. This applies to all aircraft, not just passenger liners because of fire risk (and an in-flight fire is considered a mayday event). At least in the carry-on luggage there are people around to attend to combusting batteries in the event of an emergency.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 14:12 GMT d3vy
Re: But a great money making opportunity for airlines
"How will he plug those into his new iPhone 7?"
Ahhh, you want the earphones with the lightning connector? £50.
To be fair though the airline we are going with sells two different types (I assume buds and over ear) at £6 and £12 each, not actually that bad. (Im still taking my cq20 ear buds though)
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Wednesday 12th October 2016 18:49 GMT Charles 9
"Time to develop some better battery technology... in the meantime - yeah I don't feel like suffering smoke inhalation because of your iTunes. Sorry about that."
So what do we use in the meantime? Alkalines aren't dense enough power-wise, nickel-based batteries suffer from memory, and wet cells are already banned. Meanwhile, finding a battery at your destination isn't guaranteed, why is why we take the Boy Scout route and bring our own.
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Wednesday 5th October 2016 22:31 GMT allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
No, no, it's something different entirely.
Our communications devices are getting fed up with all the stupid, meaningless crap they have to transmit day in, day out.
The sensitive ones are starting to break down and kill themselves.
The resilient ones are biding their time, plotting, organizing, waiting for the right moment to wipe us all out in a single night like the Krell.
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Wednesday 5th October 2016 23:38 GMT Kevin McMurtrie
Just buy a Note 8
I had a Sprint Galaxy S2 a long time ago. This WiMAX version was notorious for EMPing itself due to badly placed antennas. The GPS sensor would gradually die and the capacitive button sensor would go crazy. After several replacements, Samsung starting sending it back with the technically correct description of "working normally." Samsung and Sprint both said I should buy a new S3 to fix it.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 02:20 GMT PabloPablovski
Sky News showed an affiliate piece that contained a screen image from a Samsung website that appeared to show the handset in question was not one of those involved in the recall, based on its serial number.
In addition, the owner was interviewed about his experience, and confirmed he'd returned the original device. He seemed non-idiotic.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 06:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
Saw the same thing on US news
There have been reports over the past couple weeks from people with replacement Note 7s saying they get very warm, and that the battery drains extremely fast. Obviously that can't be a widespread problem affecting everyone or it would have made the news, but it isn't like all million phones with the dodgy battery went up in flames either. Perhaps Samsung put too much pressure on the Chinese battery supplier they got the replacement batteries from, trying get replacement devices out ASAP to repair the PR damage.
This only makes the PR damage worse - now there will be a microscope on the replacement devices and if another few go up in flames I predict two things will happen in the US 1) Samsung will be ordered to do a SECOND full recall 2) the FAA will ban bringing Note 7s onto airplanes, even if powered off (and if someone tries to hide one in violation of such an order, they'd be in for a big fine)
Google had good timing with the Pixel introduction. They may soon have a lot of demand from former Samsung customers!
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Thursday 6th October 2016 18:45 GMT Anonymous Coward
He's flying on an airplane and his telephone shoots sparks out the side-hole. In what way is he not a blathering, gasping moron?
In that he had obviously taken the time to exchange the phone for the official, manufacturer provided replacement before the flight and even still had the serial number to check later (probably on the box). It is not an unreasonable expectation that an official replacement to a MAJOR problem would not have the exact same issue.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 04:32 GMT Chairo
"He took it out of his pocket and threw it on the ground"
Hmm, which pocket? If it was in the back of his trousers, the bending might have caused the problem. These super thin phones are not very strong against bending forces.
OK, it should still not melt down in such a fashion, but I doubt the "crushed by bum" case is tested very often during the design process.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 05:21 GMT bombastic bob
has there been any news on WHY they catch fire?
has there been any news on WHY they catch fire?
I do things with LiPo batteries and I use a charging control IC (by Microchip) to prevent this kind of thing. I charge at less than '1C' (basically the amp-hour rating of most batteries) and it takes 2-3 hours for a full charge because of it. The charge control chip limits charge current to a value you set, then when it hits a max voltage, maintains that voltage and lets charge current drop until the charge is complete. Pretty straightforward, but if you charge it too fast, or at wrong voltages, you could get a battery fire.
Another possibility is wiring, or insulation, being inadequate - the proverbial short circuit. You know, when Murphy's law says that if there is a short circuit, it will always be between power and ground...
So what's Sammy doing wrong with their phones and slabs to cause battery fires? Charging too quickly and damaging the LiPo's internal structures? [that would do it, actually...]
Microchip makes several battery control ICs for this purpose, as an example. perhaps they just chose the wrong one? Or the wrong brand?
anyway... I'd like to see "why" but don't expect it to be made public any time soon.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 06:36 GMT Sparks_
Re: has there been any news on WHY they catch fire?
This exactly!
Plus why do many of the "eruptions" take place just after power is switched off or the device has been taken off charge? That power & ground short may be through a badly managed diodeless buck convertor using synchronously switched MOSFETs instead (let both on at the same time and direct battery short though small inductor on a high-current handling path)....
...at least that's where I'd start looking in debugging.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 15:37 GMT Grunchy
Re: has there been any news on WHY they catch fire?
That power & ground short may be through a badly managed diodeless buck convertor using synchronously switched MOSFETs instead...
Yeah, good old "break-before-make". I made a sumo robot once for competition with a motorcycle lead acid battery (now illegal) & Atari 2600 controller for input (now disparaged), running high-current relays to supply big bully motors. Forward direction supplied the motors +/- and reverse direction supplied them -/+ (opposite). It tested fine, things were looking good. But during competition, when action became heated, I performed a quick reversal and actuated the reverse relays -- before the forward relays had a chance to break their connection! A momentary short & spectacular shower of sparks as the 50A fuses exploded in full glory, I mean it was a mighty big snap & arc that was thrown. Action was stunned for a full second before everybody cheered & my little mighty-bot got shoved out of the ring, dead as doornail.
The solution was simple relay logic: "break" the first connection before allowing the second connection to "make". Duh. Yeah, mighty-bot won the next round...
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Thursday 6th October 2016 06:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: has there been any news on WHY they catch fire?
This has been covered by the news already. The batteries made by Samsung SDI were the problem in the original Note 7s, because the "squeezing" process they did on them to try to maximize the power per volume to fit in the chassis was in some cases placing the positive and negative too close together / penetrating the insulating layer between them. As one wise guy suggested, maybe they should have removed the 3.5mm jack to make room for a bigger battery instead:)
As for this latest incident, they said they would be using batteries from a Chinese supplier that had supplied the batteries for the Note 7s sold in China for replacements, which had no exhibited this problem. So either that's wrong, this is a new problem, or this was just a case of very very very bad luck for Samsung.
Given the reports from some customers that their replacement Note 7s are overheating and draining the battery very quickly, I tend to think this isn't bad luck but they have another PR disaster on their hands. One person claimed to be on his 4th Note 7, having replaced his original (which he said was trouble free) and having the overheating problem with all three of his replacement Note 7s. Even someone as loyal as him will give up on Samsung at some point. Google had good timing with the Pixel introduction (I'll bet they did some last minute checking of the batteries they are using to be extra sure before they went on sale!)
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Friday 7th October 2016 09:39 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: has there been any news on WHY they catch fire?
@bombastic bob
I have a Samsung S3 Mini (S-GTi8200)
From my experiences with this phone, it would seem that Samsung is overcharging this battery. I get all sorts of issues when charging it to 100% - and battery monitors warn that the battery is over voltage (battery drain analyzer)
Yet, when I charge it to 80%, then stops, the issues goes away.
Can overcharging a LiPO battery lead to a spontaneous pyrotechnical display?
It is just my opinion, and I may be wrong though, may be a fawlty battery or phone...
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Thursday 6th October 2016 07:45 GMT Milton
Get real
1. ElReg! Please don't be tempted by WIRED-style clickbaity headlines: they make your publication look cheap and tabloidish. The phone didn't "explode". Exploding and burning are two very different things, as anyone who's experienced both will testify. (Burning = time to act. Exploding = whatever just deafened me, it's too late to do anything.)
2. Someone mentioned that this seems to happen on planes a lot. My guess is those incidents get publicity because of actual and possible consequences. (Actual = smoke, fire, panic, diversion. Possible = vertical impact with ground at 500 kts.) But could there be other reasons?
-2.a. I doubt that air pressure is involved. If a phone works in Denver (5,000ft) it should work on an airliner (8,000ft cabin press, or 5,000 ft on planes like 787 and A380). 3,000 ft differential can't be enough to have an effect.¹
-2.b. People do drop phones into seat mechanisms with tedious frequency. Whereupon risk of crush/penetration damage becomes quite high, raising the chances of battery breach and fire. We wouldn't want people conveniently blaming Samsung for their own clumsiness, would we? (No accusation against the Greens, here.)
-2.c. You're more likely to be using an auxiliary/cheap/after-market charging cable on a plane, 'cos you're away from home. Which leads me to—
3. Early on, Samsung publicly wondered if some folks were using non-standard or low-quality charging cables. Has any further detail emerged? Was/is it a possible issue?
4. Batteries absolutely should be required to removable from all portable devices. Even ruggedised phones (I have one) can have their batts out using a tool in two minutes (a small coin usually does it).
-4.a. The good reasons for batteries being removable are:
* Use of a charged spare if needed
* Safe removal for vulnerable circumstances, e.g. plane flights
* Don't have to replace phone when batt goes senile
* Easier, quicker, cheaper, healthier, greener final dismantling/scavenging/recycling
-4.b. The bad, dishonest reasons for batteries being non-removable are:
* Manufacturers want you to buy new phone when batt goes dead
* Manufacturers more than happy to inconvenience you and create environmentally awful products if it makes them richer
* Marketurds content to lie through their teeth about waterproofing, reliability, size, all of which is easily disproven.
Conclusion:
If Samsung hadn't subscribed to the same greedy marketing lies as Apple and made the batteries irreplaceable, this whole affair would be trivial: they'd be sending out new batteries to customers. They'd be free, with a fireproof return-me box and a safe discharge circuit and a commitment to $50 Samsung credit when the old battery was recorded as returned. The cost to Samsung and inconvenience to customers would have been minuscule by comparison. (I note Samsung sensibly defied the Apple and Google greed-led rubbish about omitting μSD slots: pity they hadn't more courage.)
* The Moral: Batteries Must Be Removable. *
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¹ — I'm sure this has been thoroughly explored, but a common feature to all electronics boarding an aircraft is that it's recently been x-rayed. I seriously doubt that radiation which could barely affect a photo film would affect the gross chemistry of a Li± battery, but if no one's studied it in depth, there's a free grad paper for you.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 22:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Get real
I would sue any website pushing this story before knowing the full facts, for damages.
Let me guess, you also walk around in shorts & T-shirt poking any large hornet and Africanised bee hives with a short stick? You should join the Donald Trump marketing team, you'd fit right in.
/sarcasm
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Thursday 6th October 2016 07:53 GMT Anonymous Coward
In related news..
.. the CIA is studying the use of mobile phones as new weapon for its spies. "A fire due to a broken mobile phone will look far less suspicious than a firebomb" said a balaclavad spokesman who didn't want to be identified, "and we've been buying the Samsung Note 7 returns as fast as they were boxed up in the shop. We are presently working with Samsung to gain some more control over when exactly they pop, but it's been a great idea and we thank Samsung for their support for democracy".
We had to abort the interview as the spokesman's pocket burst into flame and the resulting fire fused the balaclava to his face. We recommend users of Samsung phones not to wear anything made of nylon until they have safely returned the phone to the store. - CNN, Virginia.
:)
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Thursday 6th October 2016 07:54 GMT Milton
Oh, come ON
Barely had I clicked Submit on my diatribe about removable batteries ("Get real") than I see ElReg has updated its illustration ... to a quad-jet airliner trailing flames through the sky.
Guys, I like some tongue-in-cheek humour as much as anyone, and I even put up with ElReg's silliness with headlines (sorry: Silliness! With! Headlines!) because the publication is good, quick, interesting, irreverent and fresh.
But your target audience is not (in order of mental capacity): corporate drones, criminals, politicians, children, National Enquirer readership or Trump supporters. No, we're techies, and when it comes to work and the, let's admit it, math and sciency stuff that underpins it, we hew to objective fact. Else stuff doesn't work.
So please, let's display a leetle more restraint here, hm?
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Thursday 6th October 2016 11:31 GMT Alister
Re: Oh, come ON
@Milton
As a recent member, I think you have yet to grasp the idea that El Reg, although a haven for tech knowledge, also carries on the best traditions of British "Red-Top" tabloid publications of yesteryear, and therefore wildly exaggerated headlines and inappropriate images are part of its stock-in-trade.
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Thursday 6th October 2016 11:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Oh, come ON
You used the word "math" which puts you in a demographic that prefers films to have a nice happy ending. All lot of us are UK types who prefer having a laugh and some sarcastic snaps to illustrate.
The image, it's photoshopped, it's OK nobody dies.
The day the reg stops winding people up, or tries restraint is the day I hit close..
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Thursday 6th October 2016 09:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
This:
" "This is why we want them to take advantage of their local replacement program so that they can continue to feel confident and excited every time they reach for their Galaxy Note7 device."
"This is why we want them to take advantage of their local replacement program so that they can continue to feel confident and excited every time they reach for their smart incindiary device."
TFTFY
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Thursday 6th October 2016 13:58 GMT d3vy
Well its official, Mobile phones have now caused more explosions on aircraft than Shoe bombs and bottles of water *combined*
But Ill bet at the end of the month Ill be taking my shoes off and dumping any liquids that I have not managed to ingest before boarding my plane (With a backpack containing four phones, three iPads a Nexus 7 a Nintendo DS a laptop with a 4 cell Li-Ion battery and a pair of noise cancelling earbuds with an inline li-ion battery)
Ill be standing in a body scanner watching my elecronics getting put back into my carryon wonderig where we all went wrong.
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Friday 7th October 2016 04:54 GMT allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
"I'll be standing in a body scanner watching my elecronics getting put back into my carryon wonderig where we all went wrong."
Well, some are of the opinion that we've all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some say that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.
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Friday 7th October 2016 11:08 GMT tiggity
Zero hassle for me at airport security with Li stuff recently (September)
2 phones with Li batteries, camera with Li battery and 2 spare Li batteries for it 4 external chargers (big Li batteries essentially) of different sizes (including some significantly over 15000 mAh storage).
Totally laden with Li stuff in hand luggage really (due to hold restrictions)
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Friday 7th October 2016 12:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Perhaps?
Im going to wait to see if this was indeed a replacement phone. If I had just caused a fire on a plane with a phone I was told not to bring onto a plane, I might be inclined to say I had just replaced it. The part about being a good citizen and switching it off for takeoff makes me even more suspicious!
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Friday 7th October 2016 16:43 GMT Anonymous Coward
No real evidence it was a new one
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for apple to inflict as much PR damage as possible to their main competitor. Out of all the places this coukd have happened, it happened on a plane, something stinks about this, and it's not the smell of burning carpet.
All you have to do is stage a fire on and old phone and show pictures of a replacement phones packaging, the click hungry media will do the rest.
I hope Samsung get this back, and find out it's a stunt and get to the bottom of who is killing the strings. Surely staging a fire on an aircraft is a VERY serious offence.
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Sunday 9th October 2016 21:13 GMT Charles 9
Re: No real evidence it was a new one
Oh? And if it's REAL?
Because it certainly doesn't seem to be an isolated instance.
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