back to article YouTube breaks Sony Bravias

Sony has announced the “Termination of YouTube service on 2012 BRAVIA TVs.” As Sony's notice explains, “It has been confirmed that the 'New YouTube on TV' app on 2012 Sony BRAVIA TVs will experience symptoms of 'Black Screen and Freezing', or an 'Error Message will be displayed and the video will stop playing'. “The symptoms …

  1. tjdennis2

    Who uses the internal TV smarts?

    The smarts in these TV's have always been under-powered and horrible compared to any external box you could attach. It always seems they put in the bare minimum just to add a bullet point to the sales brochure. TV's should be simple output devices with no smarts at all other than a TV tuner.

    There are tons of options out there for adding great interfaces to your TV experience that a TV maker just can't compete with or even keep up with. In Sony's case, they should just provide a discount for their PS4 with a TV purchase instead of trying to duplicate the PS3/4 interface on low powered hardware in the TV.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who uses the internal TV smarts?

      A raspberry pi 1 vastly outclasses whatever SoC the TV manufacturer included.

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Who uses the internal TV smarts?

      The smarts in these TV's have always been under-powered

      Not necessarily. My Tosh has some fairly hefty Cell based hardware inside. Not PS3 level, but not far off.

      that a TV maker

      Any equipment maker. 4 years is a very long time in streaming media.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who uses the internal TV smarts?

      I'm not even sure including a tuner is desirable any longer, considering how most people never make use of it.

      1. jelabarre59

        Re: Who uses the internal TV smarts?

        I'm not even sure including a tuner is desirable any longer, considering how most people never make use of it.

        When we still had our cable service from Crapcast, we had picked up a brand-new TV a few years back that should have been quite capable of dialing-in clearQAM signals. But the dickheads at Crapcast refuse to even provide local broadcast channels over clearQAM. So despite having a tuner, still had to use their dumb-ass box (at least they have a cheap model that doesn't handle their PPV and other overpriced tat). Once I attached the Roku, all the tuner in the TV did was act as a nuisance when the braindead Samsung controls on the TV suddenly decided I wanted to use the useless tuner, and I had to hunt down the broken Sammy remote to switch back to a usable signal.

        Would much prefer the TV makers sell us an equivalent of monitors (in the days of CRTs such things were sold, separate from "computer monitors"), but that bight mean they can't charge us outrageous prices for useless and unwanted extras at bloated markups.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who uses the internal TV smarts?

      Possibly, however my new Samsung, although fairly cheap to buy, is so much better than the Virgin Tivo box for the apps. iPlayer is a sluggish mess on the Tivo, so are just the basic programme search etc.

      On the Samsung, it is really easy to fire up iPlayer, All4, etc (or Youtube but I rarely venture there) and is quick too with no problems in playback (other than the crappy WiFi unit that Virgin provide that decides to drop the signal for about 30 seconds every 15 minutes). It also supports the Amazon Prime Video app quite well also (which is why I couldn't have just used a Chromecast).

      The only issue is the PIN entry for all the apps. It has an onscreen keyboard so when trying to enter the PIN kids have to leave the room and shut the door otherwise they find it out pretty easily. Not sure if this is a Samsung thing or the App developers, but I presume it is the app developers.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who uses the internal TV smarts?

        And in a couple years when the firmware updates to your Samsung TV's apps stop, and eventually they stop working because Youtube or Netflix changed things?

        Go check the firmware update history of older Samsung smart TVs if you don't believe me. Buying a smart TV is for fools, it is much cheaper to buy a non-smart TV and get a set top box like a Roku, Apple TV or whatever. It will be updated, and when it no longer is or the hardware can't handle new stuff you want to do with it, you replace it and you STILL come out ahead in how much you spent.

    5. djack

      Re: Who uses the internal TV smarts?

      Me. It means that you can have a neatly wall mounted tv and not have to juggle with remotes etc.

      A device that is a hdmi stick and uses the hdmi ethernet channel and integrates with the tv remote viahdmi-cec would be an ideal solution. Unfortunately it seems that no one wants to make one.

  2. Mark 85

    I'm at a loss... who'd buy a TV to watch YouTube Videos?

    1. James 51

      Didn't buy a smart tv to watch youtube but it does help keep the kids entertained and takes less electricity than running the 360 or xbox one. Stuff like this does annoy me though. There is no reason for google to cut them off, it's still capable of playing videos so what's their agenda?

    2. RAMChYLD
      Linux

      > I'm at a loss... who'd buy a TV to watch YouTube Videos?

      Well, some of us want to watch our videos on a big screen but don't want a huge monitor.

      That said, I never understood Smart TVs. Do we really need that when hooking up a RPi, Android box or even a old PC that has been repurposed with Linux and Kodi suffice?

    3. Just Enough
      Unhappy

      "I'm at a loss... who'd buy a TV to watch YouTube Videos?"

      This is about as silly a question as "who'd buy a computer to check the date?" The YouTube app is just one part of the functionality of the TV.

      If I want to search for/look at a YouTube video when seated at the TV, I'd rather do it on the TV than go fire up some other device. So I'm rather annoyed at this development.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        >If I want to search for/look at a YouTube video when seated at the TV, I'd rather do it on the TV than go fire up some other device. So I'm rather annoyed at this development.

        It sucks that something that did work now works no more. However, a Chromecast dongle - using as it does a phone, tablet or computer for text input - makes searching for Youtube videos so much easier than using a standard IR remote that I don't begrudge the extra power consumption. It also more than makes up for the time it takes for the Chromecast to boot up.

        That said, our new Samsung TV presents itself as a Chromecast device, making Google's dongle redundant for the time being. The PlayStation 3 offers similar functionality from the Youtube app on an Android or iOS device.

      2. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Every new TV should include a small IR blaster - the size of a coin - with just one button: On/Off. This blaster will have an adhesive back so that it can be affixed to one's PVR/Satellite/Cable Box remote controller.

        OR:

        TVs have a 'wake on HDMI signal'.

        The TV remote does little more than turn it on and off - the rest is done through the Humax PVR remote. The PVR remote can double as the TV remote, but the step of pushing [TV] [On] [PVR] [On] confuses and infuriates my dad.

        [Off Topic: My mum is merely confused when watching the TV and it suddenly says 'Spotify' - a result of my dad in the next room selecting the wrong device from his phone ( I named the Chromecast Audio dongle in the kitchen 'Kitchen'... I don't know what else I can do). ]

        1. jelabarre59

          BT instead of IR

          Every new TV should include a small IR blaster - the size of a coin - with just one button: On/Off. This blaster will have an adhesive back so that it can be affixed to one's PVR/Satellite/Cable Box remote controller.

          OR:

          TVs have a 'wake on HDMI signal'.

          If anything, modern TVs should just add bluetooth capability to their TVs. IR was useful in the days when that was the height of technology. Granted, for those times I can't get clear-sight to the IR port on the TV in the bedroom I found I can bounce the signal off the wall or ceiling.

          But the wake-on-HDMI (or even switch input on HDMI) doesn't work on the Sammy/Roku combo we have.

    4. MJI Silver badge

      I do

      But via the PS4

      Why?

      So I can find the item I am looking for.

      Usually collectables in game

  3. Oengus

    Not the first and won't be the last

    2012 Sony Bravias - Out of Warranty - Time for planned obsolence to kick in and steadily "brick" the smart features meaning that the otherwise perfectly usable device will need to be replaced because of software decisions made by the manufacturer.

    If it was truely a "Smart" TV wouldn't they be able to offer a software upgrade to fix this? I can still watch youtube videos on a PC much older than 2012.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Not the first and won't be the last

      f it was truely a "Smart" TV wouldn't they be able to offer a software upgrade

      Software upgrade will not fix a hardware deficiency. If you look at the Arm SoCs available for Android (as used in a cut-down form by most consumer kit) in 2012 - they are all fairly underpowered by today's standards.

      1. heyrick Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Not the first and won't be the last

        "If you look at the Arm SoCs available for Android (as used in a cut-down form by most consumer kit) in 2012 - they are all fairly underpowered by today's standards."

        Are these real changes or just an excuse to dump having to support the hardware? I looked up a random kitten video with Youtube downloader (Android) listed formats such as MP4 270/360p, 3GP 144p, etc. Surely 2012 era hardware can manage at least one of those? Hell, I've had the older YouTube 240P running on a 200MHz ARM with 100MHz DSP (TMS320DM320)...

  4. MacroRodent
    FAIL

    Obviously the haven't even heard of defensive programming

    Sony: “The symptoms being experienced are not a failure of the TV, but are as a result of specification changes made by YouTube that exceed the capability of the TV’s hardware.”

    Total BS from Sony. If your system crashes because it gets unexpected input from the network, it is your fault. The Youtube application need not work with the unexpected input, but it must notify the user and shut down gracefully, without taking the system with it.

    But the Bravia bug is typical of the software quality of consumer devices. Like the LG DVD player I have that locks up if it is fed a disk in a format it cannot handle, or is too scratched.

    1. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Re: Obviously the haven't even heard of defensive programming

      YouTube is moving to be fully https. Sony say that their hardware can't do https (presumably isn't powerful enough to decrypt TCP packets and decode video at the same time).

      No defensive programming can fix that.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Obviously the haven't even heard of defensive programming

        Not that I'm one to shirk blaming Google for making stupid changes that break hardware all the time, but I'm sure people paid extra for a Bravia so they could have it run at its limit with HTTP YouTube videos.

      2. MacroRodent

        Re: Obviously the haven't even heard of defensive programming

        No defensive programming can fix that.

        No, but that is not what it is about. The application must just be able to decide it cannot handle the situation, give a sensible error message, and exit, instead of mysteriously freezing. This is especially important for software in consumer devices.

        Handling error situations well is one of the things that distinguishes quality software from poor hacks.

        1. Tomato42
          Joke

          Re: Obviously the haven't even heard of defensive programming

          > distinguishes quality software from poor hacks.

          "poor hacks"? that's a new term for Internet of Things?

  5. Lotaresco
    Meh

    And this...

    Is why I bought a cheap "smart" media player with BluRay, USB and DLNA. It cost £70 and I won't go crying to the bank if one day it stops working. I use it with a 32" monitor from HP with B&O speakers and get a better picture and better sound than a Sony TV. I don't want a TV that's too big to go in a cupboard so the monitor is fine.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. Blacklight
    Windows

    Meh.

    I decided I'd never have a Smart TV, until the only way I could get a larger panel with 3D support was a Smart TV.

    So I had a play, and while the interface isn't super whizzy, it works - although the unit has the most stupid design flaw - I can turn if OFF via Ethernet, once it's OFF, it doesn't respond to WoL, so you have to resort to a pinky interface, or good old IR. Well done there, that manufacturer.

    But still, as it the box supports YouTube, Google Play Movies, Talk Talk TV/BlinkBox & NowTV. If any of those fail, those apps all support Chromecast, and I've got one of those too. £25 isn't a lot to shell out. Or, as mentioned, I could resurrect the Pi2 I have lying around...

  7. Korev Silver badge
    Gimp

    Chromecast O'Clock

    I've been using a Chromecast 2 for a while which is waaay better than my Samsung "Smart" TV. They're cheap enough that if Google changes Youtube again then you can just buy another without getting your Bank Manager excited.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I used to sell TVs, and it's surprising the number of customers who DON'T think to ask about the future. Yeah, you may have a whole bunch of apps when you buy it, but the manufacturer can usually switch them on and off at will. Sometimes to add new ones - yay! - but also they could turn them off as demonstrated here. So you sell a TV based on what it can do at time of purchase, which is a bit worrying when the customer has no control over what is added or removed in terms of core apps.

    Maybe Android TV is the way forward - sideload whatever you want - but it's hardly a sleek solution to be lobbing APKs on a memory stick.

    My Samsung D series is slowly losing features.... the Amazon Instant Video app no longer works, and the Channel 5 on-demand disappeared for good after being uninstalled and reinstalled automatically a few times.

    1. djack

      One of my big annoyances is the way that Samsung do updates.

      Each update is mandatory and takes an age to install. The annoying thing is that it doesn't check and apply updates while it's in standby, oh no. Clearly the absolute best time to do so is when the user says that they actually want to use it.

      Yeah, can have video on deman... Just as long as you give half an hour's notice first.

      1. Down not across

        Samsung updates

        One of my big annoyances is the way that Samsung do updates.

        And the way they keep spamming you about yet another service about to be discontinued. Fine, that happens and apps/services get canned. Just stop spamming it on the screen. Show it once and then just leave it at that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Consumer Law

      When you buy it, make a point that you want a set that supports X feature such as youtube. Get it iin writing that this is a reason you are buying the set.

      Then when the feature is removed you can go back to the retailer and say that since the set no longer meets the critera you stipulated at sale, you would like a full refund please under Sale of goods/Australian consumer law/other decent consumer legislation. As long as this is still within a reasonable timeframe you should be entitled to refund/repair/replace.

      If enough people exercised their rights and did this manufacturers might stop pulling these stunts.

  9. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Not great devices

    Maybe I've been unlucky. But the Smart TVs I've used or looked at all seem to have a "Just good enough" quality. Whether it's clunky interfaces or buggy software. My Sony Bravia TV has the annoying habit of periodically refusing to accept that it's connected to the WiFi, even while telling me that it can see the damned thing.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nothing new here.

    Many Freesat boxes will lose iPlayer and ITVHub very soon too.

    (don't see any clickbait news about that, but then it's not about Sony... go figure)

    Things changes. Deal with it.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Nothing new here.

      http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/v2_closure

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Nothing new here.

      ITV are shite with their support anyway, so use STV instead via web method

  11. tiggity Silver badge

    Dumb TV

    Does the job for me

    I buy a TV and only replace it when it dies, so a "smart" TV would be no use as over time you expect functionality to die, be it via changing APIs, hardware not coping, manufacturer deciding they CBA to provide upgrades after a few years. So may as well just save some quids and buy dumb as "smart" TV will end up dumb way before it's lifespan ends

    I do watch non TV content - just that anything "Smart" connects to it, be it directly via cables (e.g. HDMI from another device) or wifi (e.g. if I want YouTube there's chromecast).

  12. andy 28

    Dumb display

    Why is is that a dumb display/panel is so much more expensive than the same thing with added tuners, smart bits and assorted crap added?

    I don't believe that the scale of manufacture of one vs the other makes much difference. I thought that the panels are mostly bought in and assembly is automated with lines that can change easily. Distribution costs will be the same. A few more skus on the inventory isn't going to add much either.

    All my sources are separate boxes so I can chop and change. With one big mother of a remote control :) Just need a display for them for when the current one dies.

    Seems like it's just a mark up for calling dumb a 'commercial' display.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Dumb display

      A Smart TV almost was twice the price as a basic TV when I was buying yet it had less video connectors and the "smart" in any smart TV is not worth the extra compared to a cheap tablet / laptop / phone with along HDMI cable.

      Actual real monitors are meant to be used perhaps 0.3m away and have much finer pitch pixels to be any use. Screens for TVs are used at a distance of 1.5m to 3m depending on size. TV screens to be most useful want to be 16:9 and 1920 x 1080 and more than 36" for a normal room. Monitor screens ought to be nearly twice the pixel density X and Y as a TV, even if the low for computers resolution of 1920 x1080, that's four times as many pixels per square inch, minimum, that's more expensive to make.

  13. MJI Silver badge

    Expensive TVs

    I ended up paying a lot for a TV, not quite smart, runs on Linux, but large screen.

    And the most important thing of any TV.

    Was the best picture I had ever seen from an LCD TV.

    Upscales SD very well. Has 3 HDMI, quite a few SCART, component.

    But tuner is now out of date, chip set cannot handle UK HD DTTV.

    I have 1 or 2 superbit DVDs and the one I tried looks great on that TV, upscaled from RGB SCART.

  14. Chris Evans

    Apology fail

    “We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause,”

    Should be

    “We apologise for THE inconvenience this may cause,”

    saying ANY sounds like they are trying to downplay things and will really grate with those affected.

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