back to article New booze guidelines: We'd rather you didn't enjoy yourselves

New alcohol advice published today reiterates that the recommended maximum intake weekly for male adults should fall from 21 to 14 units - barely enough to fill a bowl with electric soup*. “To keep health risks from alcohol to a low level it is safest not to drink more than 14 units a week on a regular basis,” the UK …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    No safe level of drinking

    No safe level of smoking either. And now we are being told that bacon sammies are even worse.

    Shall we just lay down and die now ? Oh, silly me, of course not. That would deprive government of years of tax income. No, we should obviously live our lives in religious ascetism and die the day of our retirement - that way Gov gets all the revenue and pays none of the costs.

    Well you can forget that idea. We're humans, not robots, and all the shit we take daily means we need to smoke and drink to not effing snap and murder the a-hole next door on a weekly basis.

    Maybe if you eased up on the scare announcements we'd not need to drink so much ?

    Bah, just kidding. We'd drink anyway.

    1. VinceH

      Re: No safe level of drinking

      "No safe level of drinking"

      Fair enough.

      "No safe level of smoking either."

      I'm 100% fine with that.

      "And now we are being told that bacon sammies are even worse."

      Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

      Now they're just being silly!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No safe level of drinking

        "And now we are being told that bacon sammies are even worse."

        Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

        Now they're just being silly!

        I think that is intended to soften us up ready for the time pork will be banned to fit in with diversity.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No safe level of drinking

          I just gave up pork. Pigs are intelligent animals and I feel sorry for causing them undue pain and suffering. Same for goats. No problem with sheep, cows, chickens or ducks. Although cows may be off the menu for environmental reasons...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No safe level of drinking

        It is quite true that eating a bacon sandwich poses a slight health risk. The bacon and butter are very good for you indeed, but all that (probably wheat) bread! That's what will kill you if you eat too much of it.

        The joke, by the way, is on anyone who thinks I'm joking. I'm deadly serious. Wheat and sugar may very well be responsible for a lot of the diseased livers that are wrongly blamed on alcohol. The scientific evidence of which I'm aware says quite clearly that drinking up to about a bottle of wine per day is more likely to make you live longer than to get ill. (Half a bottle might be more prudent). But significantly, you must drink regularly to get the benefits. Like the French, if you will; a glass of "bon vin rouge" with a calm, unhurried, civilized lunch, then another one or two glasses with dinner and perhaps a little cognac to settle the stomach. It's important to imbibe with food, and in a mellow, relaxed atmosphere. That keeps the adrenaline, cortisol and glucagon out of your blood and lets the insulin do its work.

        I would like to see the scientific evidence on which this latest load of... government advice is based. TFA doesn't mention any, which I suspect is because there isn't any.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No safe level of living

      ...nothing else to add that isn't bloody well obvious.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    The temperance movement? Is that still a thing??

    Well, I respect them for working a rough gig, if nothing else.

    1. Stumpy

      Re: The temperance movement? Is that still a thing??

      Yes, go and see them next time they play. Bloody brilliant band!

    2. Yugguy

      Re: The temperance movement? Is that still a thing??

      I got it - but then I am down wid de kidz.

    3. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: The temperance movement? Is that still a thing??

      I thought it was the Temperance Seven rather than movement. Must be down on their luck a bit if they can only afford £10.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwKO8VUORfU

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is ridiculous it is so out of touch...

    ...I mean, who drinks 2.8% lager!

    1. Nosher

      Re: This is ridiculous it is so out of touch...

      Yeah, and I'm not sure what else it says about the target demographic, when the example is lager (clearly the cheapo gnats-piss supermarket own-brand version and the other sort commonly referred to as "wife beater") and neither of the percentages is representative of most draught real ales, many of which are between 3.7 and 4.2%

    2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: This is ridiculous it is so out of touch...

      Nettos used to do a 1% beer which was absolutely bloody excellent on days with temperatures like this week, was only 25p a can and actually tasted decent, not like many more expensive metallic tasting chemical liquids in a can.

      One could drink that all day long and not end up on the park bench with the Red Stripe brigade :-)

      But, yes, for an on-the-lash beer, it wasn't what I would choose nor recommend.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. caffeine addict

          Re: This is ridiculous it is so out of touch...

          Isn't below 2.2% not an alcoholic drink for taxation and licensing purposes?

          Vaguely remember at Uni (1997? fuck) ASDA discovering their "beer" was non-alcoholic and suddenly boosting it from 2 to 2.2%...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The purpose of advice like this

    is evidently to be ignored. If they can't come up with something sensible, then why did they even bother?

    1. EddieD

      Re: The purpose of advice like this

      "is evidently to be ignored. If they can't come up with something sensible, then why did they even bother?"

      So that in a year or so, when we fail to adhere to their guidelines, the government can turn round and say "Well, we tried to advise people to lower their consumption, that didn't work so we're going to tax the fuck out of alcohol"

      1. Vic

        Re: The purpose of advice like this

        that didn't work so we're going to tax the fuck out of alcohol

        Yeah, that'll be a real vote-winner...

        Vic.

    2. Mark 85

      Re: The purpose of advice like this

      Good point. And are there two sets of "standards" that we're not being told? One for us proles and one for the PM's and government/corporate elite? Where I used to work, there was a ban on alcohol during the working day, except for the C-suite who had a wine cellar (cooler?) in the main conference room in their area. And it was used daily.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    other everyday activities that people understand are not completely safe, yet still undertake

    So, going downstairs in the morning?

    You're still most likely to be killed by your own kitchen.

    1. Bucky 2
      Coat

      Re: You're still most likely to be killed by your own kitchen

      I know.

      It keeps saying that, over and over, in my dreams: "I will kill you...I will kill you..."

      1. Scroticus Canis
        Terminator

        Re: You're still most likely to be killed by your own kitchen

        Just wait a bit, the IoT kitchen will do it for sure or drive you to suicide. Sounds like Bucky 2 already has has one, be careful mate.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: You're still most likely to be killed by your own kitchen

        "It keeps saying that, over and over, in my dreams: "I will kill you...I will kill you..."

        In mine it's a repeated, haunting sounding "redrum...redrum...redrum"

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: other everyday activities that people understand are not completely safe, yet still undertake

      Leading cause of death in males aged 5-49 is suicide (see http://visual.ons.gov.uk/what-are-the-top-causes-of-death-by-age-and-gender/).

      Then I looked for statistics on whether alcohol is related to suicidal feelings and found that yes it is, see http://alcoholrehab.com/alcoholism/binge-drinking-increases-suicide-risk/.

      Maybe reducing alcohol consumption is a good thing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: other everyday activities that people understand are not completely safe, yet still undertake

        Or, you know, maybe suicidal feelings increase your likelihood to binge drink.

  6. Ole Juul

    I've consumed a lot of alcohol in my day but

    what the hell are units?

    1. Vinyl-Junkie
      Pint

      Re: I've consumed a lot of alcohol in my day but

      According to Jeremy Hardy, when referring to alcohol "units" means "kitchen units"...

      1. Rich 11

        Re: I've consumed a lot of alcohol in my day but

        And Jeremy Hardy is right. I've got two kitchen units of the stuff - my beer fridge.

    2. WraithCadmus
      Boffin

      Re: I've consumed a lot of alcohol in my day but

      10ml of pure alcohol, so it's easier to make comparisons between different sorts of drink (beer v wine v spirits).

      1. Ole Juul

        Re: I've consumed a lot of alcohol in my day but

        "10ml of pure alcohol, so it's easier to make comparisons"

        So they thought they'd rename the centiliter. I bet they were drunk when they came up with that.

    3. Cynic_999

      Re: I've consumed a lot of alcohol in my day but

      "

      what the hell are units?

      "

      This is trivial to work out.

      A unit is 1kWh as any fule no

      The energy content of ethanol is 5.9kWh per litre

      Therefore a unit of alcohol is about 170ml of pure ethanol

      Which works out to be around 4.25 litres of 4% beer

      So the guidelines are not that bad.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    I'll drink to that

    After all, it doesn't have to be every day. Shame El reg doesn't offer a proper tankard, though.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: I'll drink to that

      "After all, it doesn't have to be every day. Shame El reg doesn't offer a proper tankard, though."

      You should have backed the kickstarter for LOHAN and snagged yourself an engraved El Reg LOHAN glass tankard. Since Lesters sad and untimely demise, LOHAN seems to be more on hold than ever. $deity I miss him and his articles! It seems to take at least four regular El Reg journos to fill his shoes. He was hewn from the living organic post pub curried soup of creation, while his "replacements" are hewn only from the living beer (or possibly cheap US "lager beer"), hence it taking at least 4 to "replace" him.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

    It's like you don't like the 99 studies which tell you any amount of alcohol is bad for you, so you focus on the one study which says a glass of wine is good for you... if you're a woman... if you're over 50. But you're a 30 year old man, and I'll have some beer anyway.

    The stuff is really bad for you, and it makes you talk a load of shit. Accept that, and have a drink anyway.

    From a grumpy ex-alcoholic. :-P

    But seriously, you don't have to fucking lay down and die just because you can't have a drink. If you can't enjoy yourself or stand to be in the company of your friends without being constantly tanked then you need to seriously re-think your life.

    1. Patrician

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      "But seriously, you don't have to fucking lay down and die just because you can't have a drink. If you can't enjoy yourself or stand to be in the company of your friends without being constantly tanked then you need to seriously re-think your life."

      Nice example of Reductio ad absurdum there .....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        "Nice example of Reductio ad absurdum there ."

        Not really. Why?

        1. HieronymusBloggs

          Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

          "Nice example of Reductio ad absurdum there ."

          "Not really. Why?"

          I'm guessing it's because the comment that prompted that reply appeared to conflate the enjoyment of an occasional drink with full blown alcoholism.

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

          "Not really. Why?"

          If you have to ask...

    2. Locky
      Pint

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      I've just spent some time re-thinking my life. It seems I'm still less thank half way through my career pushing emails around a company for very little material gain and a lot of sress. God that's depressing

      What I need now is a beer. Sorry, what was your point ;)

    3. Yugguy

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      "because you can't have a drink. If you can't enjoy yourself or stand to be in the company of your friends without being constantly tanked then you need to seriously re-think your life."

      what you describe is NOT having a drink - it is being DRUNK.

      There is a MASSIVE difference.

      Yes, there is a culture in the UK of pre-loading and drinking to excess, but for me I am far more interested in what I'm drinking than how much. A nice soft Malbec, a liquoricy Shiraz, a fruity ale, a smokey, peaty single-malt. I like a drink but I have no interest in drinking any old crap just to get drunk.

      1. gazthejourno (Written by Reg staff)

        Re: Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        Nobody under the age of 35, or indeed outside of government PR and public health weirdos' circles, calls it 'pre-loading'.

        The term is 'pre-drinking'.

        1. Yugguy

          Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

          As I'm fucking 46 I'll call it fucking pre-loading. Thanks.

          1. martin777

            Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

            "As I'm fucking 46 I'll call it fucking pre-loading."

            I'm 63 and I call it fucking cheating.

        2. Vic
          Joke

          Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

          The term is 'pre-drinking'.

          ITYF it's called "getting started".

          Vic.

        3. Diogenes

          Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

          Gaz,

          Here in the merry old land of oz its called preloading. As one of mycollegues said, its sad when a studenthas easier access to ice (the drug not frozen water ) than booze and tobacco

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        "what you describe is NOT having a drink - it is being DRUNK.

        There is a MASSIVE difference".

        To illustrate that very good point, I have probably drunk nearly 10,000 units of alcohol over the past five years. During that time, I have never once been drunk, and I can count the number of times I've woken up with a hangover on the fingers of... well, maybe both hands.

      3. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        I am far more interested in what I'm drinking than how much.

        I'll drink to that :-) Have an upvote!

    4. Just Enough

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      I'm afraid the Government can't win here. If they did nothing to convince people to drink less there would be complaints about nothing being done to discourage binge-drinking wassocks, wasting emergency service's time and money every Friday night. But if they suggest that maybe we could drink less, they're intrusive nanny state spoil-sports. People will always find something to complain about.

      The only thing that works in these situations is cultural change and social pressure. Only once it becomes frowned upon to get smashed on a night out, to brag about your alcohol-induced amnesia, to insist you need a full bottle of wine every night before bed, will people's behaviour gradually change. Part of bringing that about is the Government providing some kind of lead.

      If anyone has a problem with that advice; well no-one is forcing them to heed it. They can go back to their pints.

      1. John Sager

        Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        It's OK the guvmint saying "don't drink to excess". However the latest value of 'excess' is patently stupid. In any case, it's hardly likely to be effective advice to people who value the feeling of being legless despite the morning-after effects.

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Re: Only once it becomes frowned upon to get smashed on a night out

        And that there is specifically the problem : confusing having a drink with getting smashed.

        For fuck's sake, if you can't have a drink without getting full-blown tanked then by all means, don't drink. It is already socially frowned upon to be unable to speak coherently, piss one's pants and act like a bloody fool. That point is already a given, as is lying in a drunken stupor on the sidewalk. You're flogging a dead horse, is what I'm saying.

        Responsible adults are talking about having a drink, with friends, in a pleasant, cultivated atmosphere of détente and cordiality.

        Take your raving drunkenness elsewhere. You are not welcome here.

        1. Charles 9

          Re: Only once it becomes frowned upon to get smashed on a night out

          "It is already socially frowned upon to be unable to speak coherently, piss one's pants and act like a bloody fool."

          But not UNIVERSALLY. Among rebels, it's considered the minimum requirement for a good party night (either that or waking up someplace you've never been before). That's why The Hangover movies are so popular.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        discourage binge-drinking wassocks...

        If anyone has a problem with that advice; well no-one is forcing them to heed it. They can go back to their pints.

        I think you missed the point by a country mile. At least.

        This is NOT advice aimed at binge drinkers and the curbing thereof. It's aimed fairly and squarely at pretty much anyone who enjoys a drink. Binge drinkers are still drinking way in excess of the previous guidelines with no not let or hindrance. They are ignoring it. Reducing the acceptable levels in the guidance will have feck all effect on those binge drinkers.

        (he says, putting back the now empty small glass of Merlot)

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        "The only thing that works in these situations is cultural change and social pressure".

        As it happens, culture has been defined as those aspects of people's regular behaviour that cannot be changed by laws... or "social pressure". In a nation where everything is regulated by law, it's reasonable to say that there is (or soon will be) no culture at all.

        And the proper function of government is not to "do something" whenever someone complains. It's not just a moral or political point, either: governments very often get these things completely wrong. Look at the US government's decision, back in about 1970, to tell all its citizens that red meat, dairy and saturated fat are killers and that you need to eat lots more "healthy whole grains". I have no idea how much sickness and how many premature deaths that has caused, but it's certainly way up in the tens of millions. Maybe hundreds of millions, considering how many Americans (and others) have become obese, diabetic, and sick in other ways exactly since the McGovern Report was published. Today our wonderful governments are telling us that eggs are no longer dangerous, and that cholesterol readings don't say anything significant about your health. (Which makes sense, given that every cell in the body makes the stuff continuously).

        It's all very well explained in Thomas Sowell's excellent book, "The Vision of the Anointed".

      5. Charles 9

        Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

        "I'm afraid the Government can't win here."

        They really can't. Loosen up and they get reminded of the Gin Craze. Tighten up and they're reminded of US Prohibition. Innocent lives were lost in BOTH incidents, so they get accused of killing innocent people either way.

    5. Yesnomaybe

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      " If you can't enjoy yourself or stand to be in the company of your friends without being constantly tanked then you need to seriously re-think your life."

      They do say that if your social interactions normally revolve around alcohol, then you are at least a borderline alcoholic. So it's lucky I drink myself into a stupor every night in front of the telly on my own... If I had friends, I would have been in trouble with that sort of intake.

    6. SundogUK Silver badge

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      "...then you need to seriously re-think your life."

      Why?

    7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      "If you can't enjoy yourself or stand to be in the company of your friends without being constantly tanked"

      It depends on what you're friends are like when they're constantly tanked.

    8. Mr_Pitiful

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      Because you can't work the whole bank holiday without a Beer or Two

      Fix attempted, but I have had a couple while working at a Solar Farm today

      I'm on call for 72 hours and my wife is my driver!

      I have no intention of driving and the aircon has failed, so I took some fans and a pack of lager

      Lager sitting in cool box currently at -1c

      Awaiting arrival of Aircon engineer at 7pm (only an hour to go)

      Everything is currently working, even if a little hot!

    9. hplasm
      Meh

      Re: because you can't enjoy yourself without a drink?

      "From a grumpy ex-alcoholic. :-P"

      From the Preachy-Ex brigade...

  9. Dr. Heinrich Backhausen

    I'm in France for a short holyday. I'm wondering: why are still living French running around here and obviously staying quite well and healthy? Wine is standard, e.g. you go to a small resto, bistro ..., for lunch, there's a "formule" taken by most people (workers, office workers etc.), containing half a bottle of wine per person..... But maybe it's this other, very condemnable pleasure, which counters the effect of booze, you know, this four-leg thing...

    Or looking back on Germany: in Bavaria, beer is not considered booze at all but a base nutrient, no joking here. In Munich you'll have the 1st Mass at about 10...11 am, with the Weisswurst (sausage) which has to be eaten before midday. Not to speak about the drinking habits in Westfalia...

    Heinrich

    1. Yugguy

      I do like the more relaxed continental attitude to drinking. And kids and alcohol.

  10. Big_Boomer Silver badge

    Make alcohol illegal

    Oh wait, that didn't work did it? I know, how about we deny NHS treatment to drinkers, and smokers, and the obese, and anyone who does adventure sports, and bacon sandwich eaters. Are these people human or just fecking eejits? Anyone with a brain knows that everything gives you cancer to one degree or another. Reducing your alcohol intake from 21 units per week to zero will have no effect on the pollution you inhale every day, or the multitude of natural and artificial chemicals in the food you eat. Besides, didn't we export all our Puritans to the Colonies 250 years ago? May need to do it again!

  11. Dr. Heinrich Backhausen
    Holmes

    I'm in France for a short holyday. I'm wondering: why are still living French running around here and obviously staying quite well and healthy? Wine is standard, e.g. you go to a small resto, bistro ..., for lunch, there's a "formule" taken by most people (workers, office workers etc.), containing half a bottle of wine per person..... But maybe it's this other, very condemnable pleasure, which counters the effect of booze, you know, this four-leg thing...

    Or looking back on Germany: in Bavaria, beer is not considered booze at all but a base nutrient, no joking here. In Munich you'll have the 1st Mass at about 10...11 am, with the Weisswurst (sausage) which has to be eaten before midday. Not to speak about the drinking habits in Westfalia...

    Heinrich

    1. Steve K

      Heinrich - I think you've already had enough to drink - you are repeating yourself...;-)

      Steve

  12. Oengus

    Never going to give it up...

    Eating a bacon sandwich, or watching an hour of TV, posed more long-term health risks than moderate alcohol consumption

    You can have my Bacon Sandwich (bacon and egg roll) when you prise it from my cold dead hand.

    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Never going to give it up...

      Do you mind if I grab it while it's still hot, rather than waiting until you're cold? Oh, and pass the Worcestershire sauce while you are still breathing would you please...

  13. This post has been deleted by its author

  14. Vinyl-Junkie
    FAIL

    The government can...

    ....go forth and multiply with "advice" like this. It is nothing more than nanny state propaganda based on no factual evidence whatsoever.

  15. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Flame

    Ban it or shut up

    If the government maintain that alcohol is so bad that zero units per week is the maximum then it should be banned, Prohibition-style, instead of just preaching sermons which flatly contradict their working group which already came up with a low figure which is out of line with other Western countries.

    Whatever happened to evidence-based policy?

    1. Rich 11

      Re: Ban it or shut up

      Whatever happened to evidence-based policy?

      It clashed with political ideology, as per usual.

    2. Soap Distant

      Re: Ban it or shut up

      Uh, eh? We had evidence-based policy on anything, ever? Was I napping?

      SD

  16. tiggity Silver badge

    life is risky

    Every breath I inhale potential carcinogens - though amounts vary (e.g. passing cars, smokers), but never zero.

    Exposed to environmental radiation that can cause cancer (I live in a radon area so an extar bonus of natural risk)

    The food I eat might give me cancer (look up Banana Equivalent Dose for amusement).

    On those rare sunny UK days my risk of skin cancer shoots up.

    Recently went to funeral of a friend killed in RTA, if you are young accidents and suicide are way higher risks than cancer.

    Life is not risk free

    If people want to drink in moderation then it's just one more minor risk amongst many others (obviously alcoholism is extremely bad for someone and nastily impacts their close family & friends)

    Pushing abstinence, 14 a week is counter productive as people calculate the actual amount of beer, wine, spirits that equates to & think that;s stupid. e.g. 2 people share a bottle of wine over a romantic meal - (depending on ABV) that's about 5 units consumed each - a big chunk of 14

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: life is risky

      The risks of getting cancer young are low but some hit young people disproportionately.

    2. I am the liquor

      Re: life is risky

      There is no safe level of living.

    3. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: life is risky

      Life is a terminal disease. The survival rate is 0.

      I'd rather go through this Valley of Tears with a beer in hand than without it.

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: life is risky

      "Life is not risk free"

      Worse than that. It's inevitably fatal.

      1. Charles 9

        Re: life is risky

        Thing is, for most the name of the game is holding out as long as possible. For the government, the idea is to have people die off at an ideal age: old enough to pay in the maximum amount in taxes yet not old enough that they take it all back in old age benefits which can't be taken away without looking cruel and inhumane to the elderly.

  17. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "The expert group was also clear that there are a number of serious diseases, including certain cancers, which can occur even when drinking within the weekly guideline. Whilst they judge the risks to be low, this means there is no level of regular drinking that can be considered as completely safe in relation to some cancers."

    In other words, you can get some diseases even if you don't drink at all.

    1. Vinyl-Junkie
      Pint

      Re: you can get some diseases even if you don't drink at all.

      There is plenty of evidence (which HMG studiously chooses to ignore) that moderate alcohol consumption is, in fact, better for you than teetotalism.

      http://ageing.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/3/256.full for an example.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: you can get some diseases even if you don't drink at all.

        But as they would say, they've only found a correlation, not a causation. Perhaps moderate drinkers have different habits that weren't measured (or measureable) by the study. Perhaps there were physiological conditions that only apply at certain age ranges, and so on.

      2. Tom 38

        Re: you can get some diseases even if you don't drink at all.

        There is plenty of evidence (which HMG studiously chooses to ignore) that moderate alcohol consumption is, in fact, better for you than teetotalism.

        I thought this was explained by the fact that the set of teetotal people include not just those who are teetotal by choice, but also those who are teetotal because they are very sick already, and have poor outcomes.

        Similarly, outcomes for BMI groups are better for the "Overweight" group than the "Healthy" group, because the "Healthy" group actually includes a bunch of very sick people.

        Everything in moderation. Except bacon. Eat as much bacon as you can, because life.

  18. MonkeyCee

    Don't worry brave brexiters! Those puritan killjoys, the ones who interpret every EU directive to best fuck with the British public, they will still be with you. Since it's Whitehall fucking you, just using their (often batshit) interpretations of EU law, you can rest assured that silliness will ensue.

    Most europeans drink. The anglos drunk. It's all about getting smashed, not about the journey.

    Back to gardening with my bucket of adequate refreshments :D

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'll make a deal:

      The Americans can keep Nigel Farage and we'll put up with Nanny State.

    2. SundogUK Silver badge

      Piss off.

      I will live the life I choose to and you can live the life you choose to.

      And hopefully we will never meet.

  19. John Mangan

    A problem with modern medicine and government policy.

    This all starts from the perfectly respectable desire to not have people die unnecessarily early. Along with hygiene, medicine and health and safety we all, in modern countries live longer, healtheir lives than our ancestors.

    Unfortunately we have now moved from the 'small changes making massive differences' part of the curve to the 'incremental improvements' part of the curve where the accompanying consideration has to be 'quality of life'.

    I have never smoked, rarely drink (just don't feel the desire usually) and have never taken any psycho-active substances but those are MY choices. What is the point spending an extra ten years on the planet if you spend a large part of that craving those bacon sarnies you can't have, or just wishing you could 'pop out for a drink with the lads'.

    As others have said (better than me) living is risky. Perhaps the real problem is that people are not educated in assessing risk/reward especially in the context of unavoidable background risks.

    On the other hand perhaps the real problem is the Daily Mail and its ilk.

    1. Steve K

      Re: A problem with modern medicine and government policy.

      Someone much more amusing than I once said that stopping drinking/smoking/<vices of choice> doesn't extend your lifespan by 10 year - it just feels like it...

      Steve

    2. Mark 85

      Re: A problem with modern medicine and government policy.

      On the other hand perhaps the real problem is the Daily Mail and its ilk.

      I think the real problem is the mentality of way too many people... they think if they eat this, do that, not do something else, they will live forever. Notably the younger folks have this thinking. Us older geezers know that life is relatively short. Make the most of it. Have some fun. Don't sweat stuff because anything can kill you.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: not have people die unnecessarily early.

      Define "unnecessarily early". My dad, who was never more than a moderate drinker even by today's standards, lived until he was 80. For the last year of his life he was bed-ridden, in chronic pain, and suffering from dementia. I have his genes. I don't want to live until I am 80 and end as he did. So I'm going out with a beer in one hand and a bacon sarnie in the other.

  20. lglethal Silver badge
    Joke

    If there serious about this

    Then I say they should bring in full prohibition!

    Starting in the House of Lords and the House of Commons of course. Lock all the politicians and lords in Parliament with nothing to drink but cranberry juice. I give it about 5 minutes until the riot breaks out and the people wanting the prohibition get lynched...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If there serious about this

      "If there serious about this

      Then I say they should bring in full prohibition!

      Starting in the House of Lords and the House of Commons of course. Lock all the politicians and lords in Parliament with nothing to drink but cranberry juice. I give it about 5 minutes until the riot breaks out and the people wanting the prohibition get lynched..."

      I don't know. Carrie Nation carried a hatched. I wouldn't be too surprised if the prohibitionists felt obliged to guard the liquor cabinet with shotguns, claiming defending the country form drunken lawmakers is worth fighting to the death.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: If there serious about this

        "Carrie Nation carried a hatched."

        Was she chicken something out?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm missing something here - how can an outfit that only raised £70 fund anything? Are they getting money on the side from the government as well ?

    1. John Sager

      Lots of wonga from Brussels, which hopefully will stop in a couple of years or so.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        There is a very profitable process of setting up NGOs whose sole purpose is to get money from Brussels - they even fund organisations who call for the abolition of the EU.

        This is analagous to the latest financial wheeze of creating new debt packages for large organisations that can then be sold to central banks as part of their QE measures (or QQE in the case of Japan), which have been so successful over the last 5+ years that the bankers say we need more and more.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      £70

      Even today, £70 will fund a big round.

  22. TheMole

    Overpopulation and pensions crisis

    So why are so many people hell-bent on exacerbating them ?

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Overpopulation and pensions crisis

      Because no one wants to be the ones to draw the short straw (or see their parents draw it). Overpopulation is a very personal taboo: more a four-letter word than thirteen.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Overpopulation and pensions crisis

        Almost everything is more a four-letter word than "thirteen".

        *straightens coat on hanger*

        1. Charles 9

          Re: Overpopulation and pensions crisis

          "Overpopulation" is a thirteen-letter word but is treated by most people closer to a four-letter word, and I don't mean like "aunt".

  23. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    What happened to the "coffee causes cancer" WHO recommendation?

    I haven't heard anything about it in a couple of years.

    Did the civil servant tasked with acting on it die of leukemia due to Wifi irradiation?

    1. Yugguy
      WTF?

      Re: What happened to the "coffee causes cancer" WHO recommendation?

      There was a recommendation for coffee to cause cancer????

  24. HieronymusBloggs

    No such thing as zero alcohol

    Since we all produce endogenous blood alcohol (albeit in very small amounts in healthy people) it's impossible to avoid alcohol entirely. Where do you draw the line on risk?

    1. Charles 9

      Re: No such thing as zero alcohol

      They don't care about endogeneous alcohol. If we live in spite of it, that much is OK. They just don't want us to aggravate the condition by adding extra.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: No such thing as zero alcohol

        Bread actually also contains alcohol. Not much, but more than various "zero-alcohol lagers" (the Bavaria breweries (in the Netherlands) actually make a pretty decent one).

        I do not mind the government giving out this kind of advice. I will take it in, consider it, and decide for myself what to do with the guideline.

        In thins case, I think I will have a wee dram this evening. I think it will be a Talisker Port Ruighe, just to treat myself, and celebrate life.

        1. Charles 9

          Re: No such thing as zero alcohol

          "Bread actually also contains alcohol. Not much, but more than various "zero-alcohol lagers" (the Bavaria breweries (in the Netherlands) actually make a pretty decent one)."

          Now, I know the yeast in the dough causes a little fermentation and thus a little sugar-to-ethanol conversion, but last I read almost all of it burns off during baking, especially if the bread doesn't form a very hard crust.

          Of course, if the bread is unleavened (altar bread, matzo, etc.), no fermentation takes place.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No such thing as zero alcohol

          "Everyone should believe in something. I believe I'll have a drink".

          - W.C. Fields

  25. Dwarf

    Meh

    I've read so much propaganda over the years on this being bad, that being good,

    We get meaningless fact like eating /drinking (stupidly low) figure of X every 3rd Tuesday the day after a full moon *might* give you a 0.1% increase in dying of Y.

    Then we get some other research 6 months later that states the exact opposite - Red wine being an example, saturated fats and the great Butter is bad, plastic butter is good fiasco.

    They also say that 72.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot, the rest seems to just have no reliable evidence behind it..

    Then we get some old person who has outlasted all their family and they have a daily measure of the things that are supposedly bad for you, so what are we supposed to think ?

    Well, last time I looked, there was a 100% probability of dying, the only unanswered questions for all of us is when and how.

    Personally, I don't want the answer to either of those as it would change the way I live my life. E.g., you die in your bedroom - fantastic, how do I side step that one. Another figure is that 56% of people die in hospital, so if you are feeling a bit groggy, avoid the hospitals like the plague.

    My point is that its all useless information.

    Personally, I'll ignore all the "guidance" and adopt the "everything in moderation" principle, after its my life, my consequences to live with.

    The bigger issue though is that this sort of "guidance" then becomes "health policy" and you get hit by it irrespective of if you take their advice or not - and they wonder why people ignore such guidance.

  26. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Mushroom

    I'm

    only allowed 1 pint of beer a day anyway(bloody heart condition)....... and I STILL go over the limit

    And to the anti-drinking w**kers who want to ruin everyones life ... F*** OFF

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm

      "And to the anti-drinking w**kers who want to ruin everyones life ... F*** OFF"

      "F*** NO! I lost ancestors to the Gin Craze, and I don't intend to see another one in my very long teetotaling lifetime, thank you very much! I mean, what did we do BEFORE we had booze?"

      1. John Mangan

        Re: I'm

        "I mean, what did we do BEFORE we had booze?"

        No such time existed . . . . .

        1. Charles 9

          Re: I'm

          Oh? Where did the booze come from before we went agrarian? And there WAS a time before we went agrarian.

          1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: I'm

            we had punch ups over who got to eat the fermented apples/other fruit that all the other animals used to eat , then get pissed.

            <<<much happier now I've had my beer for the day .....

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I'm

            We had to wait around for fruit to fall off trees and ferment. Ain't nobody got time for that. Many people contend that booze is why we went agrarian in the first place.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I'm

            Doesn't ANYONE watch Armstrong and Miller nowadays? For Pete's sake...

        2. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: I'm

          I mean, what did we do BEFORE we had booze?

          Amanita muscaria, the psylocybes... There's a list here:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psilocybin_mushrooms

          Here in Tasmania it's illegal to harvest them, but completely legal to get down on your hands and knees and browse them :-)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm

        "I mean, what did we do BEFORE we had booze?"

        Ah canna remember - ma heed's so thick.

  27. tsf

    Don't always believe what they tell you

    This was widely discredited earlier in the year when they announced the new guidelines...

    http://health.spectator.co.uk/the-great-alcohol-cover-up-how-public-health-bodies-hid-the-truth-about-drinking/

    As were the previous guidelines, when it was revealed in 2007 they simply made them up...

    Richard Smith, the former editor of the British Medical Journal and a member of the college’s working party on alcohol, told The Times yesterday that the figures were not based on any clear evidence … “David Barker was the epidemiologist on the committee and his line was that ‘We don’t really have any decent data whatsoever. It’s impossible to say what’s safe and what isn’t’. And other people said, ‘Well, that’s not much use.’ … So the feeling was that we ought to come up with something. So those limits were really plucked out of the air. They weren’t really based on any firm evidence at all. It was a sort of intelligent guess by a committee.”

    Sensible consumption is obviously a good thing, but lying to support a hidden agenda isn't going to endear you to anyone.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't always believe what they tell you

      "...lying to support a hidden agenda isn't going to endear you to anyone".

      Very true, but it's just what politicians do. If they could change, they wouldn't be politicians.

      "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy".

      - H. L. Mencken

      "It is [a politician's] business to get and hold his job at all costs. If he can hold it by lying, he will hold it by lying; if lying peters out, he will try to hold it by embracing new truths. His ear is ever close to the ground".

      - H. L. Mencken

  28. Alistair
    Pint

    Yeesh. wicky stickets in your gummint over there.

    Dunno about units (I'm sure there is somewhere a calculator that would tell us), but the occasional indulgence by *most* of us is not about to precipitate a failure of modern civilization, or immediate death.

    There are those that cannot indulge due to their own internal circumstances (either biological or other), there are those that can drink like fish on a daily basis and keep functioning rather well (I've a relative who's made it into their 80s who stays pickled fairly constantly and one wouldn't know it). I'm not a huge drinker, and certainly don't *need* it to make my social interactions viable. I do know however that the idea of banning it or trying to remove alcohol from our society will only result in more criminal activity, violence, and death than allowing it. I'm sure there are those that can look up the real costs of prohibition in the few instances where its been implemented. That said there are states that have it implemented. But you can still pick up really decent booze for amazing prices in the duty free shops in the airports. **stop and think THAT one over for 5 minutes**.

    Me, once, perhaps twice a month I'll have a tasty one from http://5paddlesbrewing.com/ or a wee dram or two. Or just a rum and Dr Pepper. Its because I try to *enjoy* life, not blot it out. Now, let me go get my bbq steak sammich with onions and mustard and swiss setup for lunch. Its Friday, I have my quart of coffee for the day, and about 2500 lines of shell to write and implement before 6 pm.

    After all that I'm off to a concert of (old farts) and a fine meal and perhaps a wee dram or two with an old friend.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yeesh. wicky stickets in your gummint over there.

      "Dunno about units (I'm sure there is somewhere a calculator that would tell us), but the occasional indulgence by *most* of us is not about to precipitate a failure of modern civilization, or immediate death."

      Explain the Gin Craze, then.

  29. JakeMS

    Sooo..

    Who here ever actually goes to a pub then gets their calculator out, asks the bar tender how many units are in each drink then carefully calculates their alcohol intact?

    Anyone?

  30. cd / && rm -rf *
    Pint

    The killjoys strike again.

    Fuck that. It's pub o'clock.

  31. HailAJ

    Double Standards

    What gets me about the bar in parliament is that if i drove my car after 2 pints, Mr Plod will stop me and throw the book at me, however the a-holes in parliament can get drunk at work then decide what everyone else can or cant do??

    Who else thinks that mandatory breathalyzer tests should be enforced on MP's before any vote or even entering the chamber.

  32. David 30
    Pint

    There is no safe level of not drinking either

    ...so best get a few down you.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: There is no safe level of not drinking either

      "There is no safe level of not drinking either"

      Eh? I've never heard of anyone being poisoned by abstinence. Care to demonstrate?

      1. gazthejourno (Written by Reg staff)

        Re: Re: There is no safe level of not drinking either

        Oliver Reed, a lifelong drinker, stopped drinking at the age of 61. He dropped dead mere months later. Therefore abstinence is lethal and we should all emulate the great Ollie's example.

        1. Charles 9

          Re: There is no safe level of not drinking either

          "Oliver Reed, a lifelong drinker, stopped drinking at the age of 61. He dropped dead mere months later. Therefore abstinence is lethal and we should all emulate the great Ollie's example."

          What was his cause of death according to his autopsy? I smell a correlation rather than causation (given the age, it was likely an unrelated stroke or heart attack). It's like trying to see cannabis killed a man because he had a crash while he was stoned behind the wheel.

          1. Charles 9

            Re: There is no safe level of not drinking either

            Thumbing me down doesn't make it less true.

            Am I being thumbed down because I was right and that he died from a heart attack during filming of Gladiator (furthermore, he was in a drinking competition just before dying[1])?

            [1] http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/24/oliver-reed-grabbed-me-by-the-balls-omid-djalili

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    http://www.lostateminor.com/2010/09/22/lips-that-touch-liquor-shall-not-touch-ours/

    1. Charles 9

      How many of them ended up being spinsters because ALL the men they knew drank?

  34. Captain DaFt

    Oh dear, dear...

    Instead of wasting endless funds, er, funding these studies designed to scare people into living a life worth living, why don't they just link to already existent papers?

    Like Here,

    and here.

    Thank you, and I'll only ask 10% of the savings to the Government budget, if that's convenient. :)

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So when do the Brits start legalizing cannabis?

    It's neat that they recognize that alcohol is poisonous, but you can't issue these warnings without offering a safer alternative. Over in the states we've seen a drop in alcohol sales proportional to the rise in cannabis sales, and there have been no deaths from cannabis overdose up to this point.

    What's the alternative to drinking in the U.K.? Drowning your sorrows with pie and chips?

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: So when do the Brits start legalizing cannabis?

      there have been no deaths from cannabis overdose up to this point.

      Not from a want of trying ;-)

    2. Charles 9

      Re: So when do the Brits start legalizing cannabis?

      "Over in the states we've seen a drop in alcohol sales proportional to the rise in cannabis sales, and there have been no deaths from cannabis overdose up to this point."

      But cannabis still produces an influence, and people HAVE died as a result of people stoned behind the wheel (and not always the smoker, either).

  36. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    I had something really witty and pithy to debunk this

    ...but I've had two glasses of a nice Merlot while reading the article and comments and I can't remember what I was going to say. I may be slightly pithed out of my wits.

  37. ecarlseen

    Mencken had it right, again.

    “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”

    "The Puritan's utter lack of aesthetic sense, his distrust of all romantic emotion, his unmatchable intolerance of opposition, his unbreakable belief in his own bleak and narrow views, his savage cruelty of attack, his lust for relentless and barbarous persecution-- these things have put an almost unbearable burden up on the exchange of ideas in the United States."

    ― H.L. Mencken

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mencken had it right, again.

      To a Puritan, happiness is a sin because it's a sign one is not humble, and a lack of humility goes to pride: one of the Seven Deadly Sins. It's like with the Dark Ages: happiness is only meant for Heaven, to them.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmmm, interesting that they seem to be trying to achieve equality even though men process alcohol more effectively, then there's the bacon comparison, trying to push a Sharia agenda there too?

    Drink sensibly and enjoy life, sounds good to me, pint of 'Old Timer' please barkeeper.

  39. Adrian Midgley 1

    England drinks more

    than is good for it.

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