Former RN flagship HMS Illustrious to be sold for scrap – report

Correct I think....the "fast jet carrier" will be operational, although the fast jets thereupon will not be.

Like so many MoD projects, the end product is fitted "for but not with <thing>"

first of the Royal Navy's two new super-carriers

And whilst we're on this point, what's "super" about them? Admittedly bigger than the Invincible carriers, the potential at that size of ship to have proper fast jets was thrown away during specification, so they'll only be able to operate a different and more expensive flavour of STOL jet, with all the same compromises of heavy airframe, shorter range and reduced payload.

Fast jet carrier operations will resume with the introduction of HMS Queen Elizabeth, the first of the Royal Navy's two new super-carriers, in 2018.

It's not clear to me if that's fast jet carrier or fast [jet] carrier

Wellllllll.....

If they really wanted to it's not that difficult to pick up a few old harrier air frames and the engines are cheap enough on e-Bay (I'm quite serious, £5k buys you a factory fresh 'crate' pegasus engine... I was sorely tempted but the wife said no).

And there you go a few fast jets to go with the new shiny carriers for a couple of years.

Now can I triple the prices and call them consultation fees on how to save money for the MOD?

Aah, the F35, is that what will make Britain great again? Just like what Windows 10 did for Microsoft?

More than likely the US Marines will fly from QE initially. They have nominally operational F-35Bs, but no ships to fly them from that don't melt under the jet exhaust. We'll have the ship but no planes. Problem solved!

Re: It's always hard

But on the other hand, nothing beats spending a quiet, September Monday afternoon on-board the USS Massachusetts (WWII battleship, Battleship Cove, MA), wandering about on deck, in the messes and down in the the engine rooms with almost no one else about (kids all back in school!) feeling the ghosts of 3000 sailors and marines in battle. As a landlubber, I find these things fascinating.

Re: It's always hard

"(HMS Belfast is my other example: 'catering events' aboard this proud ship. 'tourist experience'. Sad.)"

Whats sad about people being able to walk around a ship and get some understanding of what it might have been like to serve on it? Also its interesting simply from an engineering point of view. Perhaps you'd be happy to see Chatham historic dockyard closed too and its exhibits gone for scrap and the mary rose sent for compost? Using your logic why not just scrap anything from the past thats past its sell by date - trains, planes, cars, buses, houses, castles so the only way to experience the past is through photos and books? In fact , lets scrap books too, who needs em - its tablets all the way! Brilliant!

Re: It's always hard

Personally I love that ships like HMS Belfast get preserved and I find it a real shame when one gets scrapped. I wish HMS Warrior had been properly preserved, rather than being turned into a hulk. The restoration is amazing, but a lot of it's based on guesswork since there aren't any proper plans. Unfortunately HMS Victory is looking pretty shabby these days.

Re: It's always hard

Personally I had a great day aboard HMS Belfast and I think it's a much better fate for a ship than getting converted into tat dust gathering knick-nacks for sale in the Nauticalia shop like some older wooden ships.

Re: It's always hard

They used mine for torpedo target practice by one of our submarines.

Re: It's always hard

Having watched HMS Warrior turn up in Hartlepool as a rusting pontoon only to be fully restored over the course of my childhood (only then to be nicked by Portsmouth once all the hard work had been done) - then, many years later, to get a guided tour of it after my friend got married on it, was a wonderful experience - so I would have to completely disagree with you.

Re: Ada

Nowt wrong with Ada, especially for this kind of use. Although the article doesn't mention it I wouldn't be surprised if the apps on top of Win4Warships were still coded in Ada to prevent the same issues it was always there to avoid.

Having also tried to write and compile Ada I can attest to how hard is it to get an error into production! My real nightmare would be if Windows for Warships was running apps written in Java by the same "developers" one sees out in the private sector. Or worse...Docker..."don't worry it'll all be fine we used containers!"

Re: Questions?

No.

Maybe.

Something we might use is better value than something we'll never use.

Re: Questions?

Yes we need a Navy, it has many usages, although personally I think F35's are pointless....

Yes we can afford one, it employs people, money goes from the government to the people it governs....

Re: Ark Royal

An ability to fly Phantoms would (probably) have prevented many British losses in the Falklands.

Re: I would actually argue..

and Bristol Buccaneers

Blackburn Buccaneers, surely?

Re: Saving ships

Just to add, imagine a 40,000 ton battleship parked in the Thames instead of HMS Belfast. The only way it could be any more awesome would be to have a James Bond impersonator parachute onto her decks every day with a Union Jack parachute.

Re: Saving ships

That is a shame that Britain didn't save the Duke of York, or the Warspite or Queen Elizabeth, which fought in WW2 and I think at Jutland too.

America managed to save I think 5 of it's late model WW2 battleships. I know the Alabama, Massachusetts, Iowa, New Jersey and Missouri got saved. Not sure about any others. I haven't seen any of the Iowa-class ships, but they were all built after the U.S. joined the Axis powers in tossing out interwar tonnage displacement treaty limits, so they are real monsters that displace something like 55,000 tons.

Also the U.S.S. Olympia got saved. It was the U.S. flagship during the battle of Manila Bay way back during the Spanish-American war, and it is probably the best example of the Victorian-era armored cruiser that is still around. Its been returned to its Manila Bay configuration and is at the Independence naval museum near Philadelphia, if you are ever in the neighborhood and want to see an old coal-burning warship. I saw it and thought it was (A) cramped and (B) pretty cool.

The biggest problem with the QEs is that they are powered by gas turbine/electric propulsion.

They could not have had steam catapults fitted, because there is no steam plant to generate steam (unlike the US nuclear carriers). And the electro-magnetic plane flingers were not available when the ships were first planned, need huge amounts of electrical power, and are bloody expensive (being current US technology).

If the design had been built around four or six Astute sub. reactors, they would have had either steam or surplus electrical power. But some bleeding hearts had decided that the UK should not have nuclear powered surface warships. So we have ships with limited range, reduced accommodation for crew, provisions, weapons and aircraft because of the need to have J-fule bunkers and fresh water tanks.

IMHO, they are seriously compromised ships, along with their built-around a-single-weapon system escorts, the Type 45 destroyers. I though the navy had learned this lesson after the County class and Type 81 large destroyers of the 1960's.