back to article Verizon fingered in Android bloatware-for-cash cram scandal

Verizon has reportedly approached app developers about pre-installing their software on customer handsets in exchange for cash. A report from Ad Age cites marketing industry execs who say that, since late last year, they have been approached by the nation's largest carrier with offers to install their mobile apps on millions …

  1. Ashley_Pomeroy

    How about they design a clear screen protector with a VERIZON logo on it - if they could persuade the phone manufacturers to ship this as the default (and only) screen protector with the phone it would be an awesome marketing coup. It would be the first thing customers see.

    Customers would love it! Just as they love having stickers all over their laptops.

  2. Captain DaFt

    And exactly how much value does it have to me...

    If someone has to pay someone else to force it on me?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @CaptainDaFT - Re: And exactly how much value does it have to me...

      Nobody cares about how much value this scheme will bring you. They're not doing this for you, they're doing it TO you.

      1. scarletherring

        Re: @CaptainDaFT - And exactly how much value does it have to me...

        Nobody cares about how much value this scheme will bring you.

        Precisely. You're not the customer, you're the product.

        1. Unicornpiss
          Thumb Down

          Re: @CaptainDaFT - And exactly how much value does it have to me...

          "Precisely. You're not the customer, you're the product."

          ..More like you're the "Mark" for their scheme.

  3. Efros

    As long as it is removable

    and not un-uninstallable like their, and most other providers, bloatware then I wouldn't have an issue with this.

    1. ma1010
      Thumb Up

      Re: As long as it is removable

      Agreed - as long as it IS removable. Before I got smart enough to buy an "unlocked" phone, I had a phone that was full of bloatware that I couldn't remove without rooting the phone (and, thus, the warranty).

      1. Mr Fuzzy

        Re: As long as it is removable

        Sod the warranty. If the thing is munged enough that it has to go back without being able to revert to stock it's munged enough that nobody is going to be in a position to peer at the state of the firmware.

  4. Oengus

    iOS Crapware

    Apple iPhones, however, would not be included in the deal, thanks to the iron grip Apple keeps on iOS software via the App Store.

    I went to purchase (outright purchase with no contract and no SIM as I already had the SIM in another phone) an iPhone from a major retailer (not a Telco) and was told that they only supply phones with a particular carrier's software pre-installed. The carrier must have done a deal with Apple. The only reason Verizon isn't doing the same thing is that Apple probably want a wad of cash to allow them to do it and it wouldn't be profitable enough.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: iOS Crapware

      No iPhones come with any carrier software installed. None!

      1. Tessier-Ashpool

        Re: iOS Crapware

        Mr. Downvoter, please enlighten us. What is this mythical iOS carrier software of which you speak?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: iOS Crapware

          Perhaps he was confused and rather than "carrier's software" installed (which Apple does NOT permit, so he was either confused or spreading FUD) it was sold locked to a particular carrier.

          When I bought my 6S plus at launch, Apple did not have an option for buying an unlocked phone. Dunno why, but it was only available a month or two after launch. However, since the Sprint version (or maybe it was T-Mobile, can't remember) they sold was sold unlocked, I bought it and was able to install my AT&T SIM no problem. I could have bought the AT&T version, but it was sold locked even if you paid full price, and I didn't want to restrict myself to only AT&T in the future - getting it unlocked should be trivial but I didn't want to take any risk of possible hassle since we are talking AT&T after all.

          The quicker Apple can get the programmable 'Apple SIM' the iPad has into the iPhone (or best of all win their battle with the GSMA and get rid of physical SIM cards entirely and provision via software) the better, I say! But while Apple has done better fighting the carriers than anyone else, even they can't always get what they want.

          1. Da Weezil

            Re: iOS Crapware

            I recall the early days of cell hardware in the UK, where stolen units were cloned by backstreet shops - this was going on the the mid 90s. Cant help thinking the "hardware sim" will see this rise again, never underestimate the ability of the easy money geeks.

          2. Jay 2
            Thumb Down

            Re: iOS Crapware

            How many hoops do you think you'll have to jump though to get your favoured virtual SIM installed and working? If it involves having to talk to a telco you know that you'll be held to ransom as long as possible. Just the fact that in this day and age there are still handsets locked to telcos infers you'll have your handset when it's taken from their cold, dead hands...

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: iOS Crapware

              If software-only SIMs became a GSMA standard, which is what Apple has been trying to make happen, then operators would be forced to get on board eventually. Though obviously there would be some period of transition required, where you would see devices that support software SIMs but still have a SIM slot for physical ones.

              If they can't get the GSMA to approve it, which doesn't seem likely to happen given carrier resistance considering their control of GSMA, Apple can still add the 'Apple SIM' that is programmable to different carriers to the iPhone. While a minority of carriers support it so it won't be useful for everyone, you can always remove it and install your ordinary carrier SIM so it doesn't hurt anyone. The next step would be to build the Apple SIM into the phone, but still have a SIM slot for carriers that don't support it. That makes provisioning even more simple for those whose carriers support it (but they could still get a physical SIM if they want to switch their SIM to other phones/devices that don't support virtual provisioning)

              Another nice thing about virtual SIMs is that you could install as many as you want. You want four SIMs in your phone at once so you always get the best rate for any call? Knock yourself out! Even with a single virtual SIM so long as you still have the physical SIM slot (which they could never do away with so long as GSMA didn't approve a software only SIM standard) then Apple has dual SIM phones, so long as one of your carriers allows for virtual provisioning.

  5. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

    So, let me get this straight

    There are app developers "out there", whose products are so shite that they can't be sold. So much so, in fact, that the sellers must resort to paying for them to be pre-installed on new phones, rather than simply being marketed on their actual merit.

    If I want an app that - say - tells me where my washing machine is, between feeding ads, I'll go search for one, thanks. Until then, FRO.

  6. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Meh

    Meh.

    Not all users remove pre-installed apps or even want to do so. Indeed, offering a bundle of apps can save a non-techie user a lot of time and trouble. It's a bit like the PCs that used to come bundled with MS Office - the average Joes were grateful to have a decent productivity app set pre-installed, but the freetards had to immediately uninstall it as "An Expression Of Their Freedom To Choose" (yawn). If Verizon's choice of bundled apps is any good it might help them ship a few phones, and if they can make a bit of cash from playing competing software makers off against each other then more power to them.

    1. P. Lee

      Re: Meh.

      > It's a bit like the PCs that used to come bundled with MS Office

      Yes, but what we really want is phones to be more like PCs. Give me the drivers for my phone. I do not want a vertically integrated stack, where a particular OS and application version are required for particular hardware. The drivers and the OS layering are supposed to solve the problem of applications talking directly to hardware. That reduces support costs. The fact that they don't do this makes me suspicious.

      Bundle the apps if you want, but also give me the license keys for applications so I can re-install.

      1. Tessier-Ashpool

        Re: Meh.

        In the phone consumer world, you are what is termed a pervert. The last thing your typical phone user needs or wants are drivers.

    2. Tim Seventh

      Re: Meh.

      Some of you or like most of the world's population like you will not remove the pre-installed apps. In fact, the average Joes properly do not even know there are apps for productivity. Bloatware? Free Ads popup? Random App recommendation? Part of the experience.

      bundled (I am sure you know most android comes with bundled bloatware right?) or not, typical user aren't going to see the differences.

      The Power Droid users, on the other hand, immediately uninstall it to remove the disadvantage of unwanted pop-up, unwanted internet access, unwanted bugs, unwanted hacks, and the important of them all to 'save battery'. With a correct configured phone, it can last close to 2 days without charging, compare to those with pre-installed apps that last only maximum 8hrs without doing anything.

      FACT: Apps are like software, which will use power when there are commands to be called. They can use power when clicked on, triggered and even get called passive in the background. Unwanted apps are the main reason smart phone use up their battery faster than previous bar phones.

      I mean, who doesn't want to 'choose' for more battery, longer music listening, slightly longer gaming time, longer time to finish typing the email or use the last drop of battery before the gps gave up in the mountain?

      Not to mention, it doesn't take a power user to uninstall an app. Go to all apps, click and hold on the app, drag it to trash, confirm uninstall, bam battery saved.

      1. Ru'
        Holmes

        Re: Meh.

        "FACT: Apps are like software..."

        Thanks for that :)

    3. Jay 2

      Re: Meh.

      Surely you mean a trial version of Office that would expire after 30 days or so and then hold your documents to ransom?

  7. sorry, what?
    Meh

    Not exactly news...

    Nokia was into this way back when Ovi Store was something that a few people had heard of.

    That said, Nokia was also paying developers to write apps for their platform too, so probably meant the developers still got some dosh for their efforts.

  8. Shadow Systems

    Just another security hole.

    Verizon basicly never releases an OTA to their handsets. The OS/software it shipped with will be the only versions it ever gets via Verizon. If you want newer versions then you either have to find/apply them manually (if they exist at all), or buy new devices. So any security flaws present in a Verizon device are pretty much *Guaranteed* to never get patched, leaving the owner open to every SkriptKiddie, VXer, & Malwarecontent with too much time on their hands.

    If Verizon is cramming additional bloatware on to their phones, those are all security holes that the *user* will have to patch, because Verizon doesn't give a fuck about you - you've paid them their money, so YOU can just go cram that device RIGHT up your ass for all the difference it will make.

    My anecdotal evidence is that the brand new flagship Nexus phones my folks bought a few years ago from Verizon had the latest OS on them. It was the *ONLY* version Verizon *ever* pushed out. In order to get the Android updates that the Nexus is supposed to get, they had to *manually* force an upgrade from the Play store. In the two years of their contract with Verizon, they *never* got an OTA from Verizon. Every time they asked about they were told "soon". As soon as their contracts were up they switched to AT&T (against my warnings). Their new (at the time) Nexus phones have had multiple OTA updates in the 1+ years of their current contract.

    TL;DR: If you get a phone from Verizon, it will probably NEVER get updated. You're the proud owner of a security nightmare you have little/no chance in hell of fixing. Have fun!

  9. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

    Another reason why you should never buy phones from a telco.

  10. EveryTime

    I'm a bit confused.

    The Verizon pre-loaded apps on my Galaxy S5 cannot be removed. They can be disabled, but not removed. You have to know a bit about Android to guess which processes can be safely disabled.

    Even when disabled, they show up as needing to be updated. If you make the mistake of doing 'update all', the new version of the app will be activated. Presumably the ad-pushing bloatware that pays for inclusion will play the same games, with frequent updates.

  11. drtune

    Don't understand how this is news

    Surely VZW has been doing exactly this for many, many years? Even pre-Android they'd preload crap on there, and they surely charged the developer for it. No question the pre-installed non-deletable junk on VZW Android phones was put there because the developers paid Verizon to do it...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hey Telecos - How about this:

    If the shite that you decide to bloat our phones with is so bloody brilliant, why not use its sheer attractiveness as a hook to get punters into your marketing maw.

    Sell phones with a bare minimum of features: OS and one Internet shortcut icon. The Internet shortcut takes one to an apps install page with a selection of crapware ^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h your own apps, which will be so appealing that punters will flock there and download shedloads of stuff.

    They will, won't they? Or is it a fact that your bloatware is actually, for the most part, just pathetic?

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