Brexit Britain: HP Sauce vs BBC.co.uk – choices that defined voters Forget Scotland and London vs. England and Wales, never mind old against young, get over city versus rural rust belt. It was internet and condiments that really defined those who voted in the June 23 referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU. Brexiters’ favorite brand was HP Sauce while BBC.co.uk was tops with Remainers, …
'Bet you're looking forward to paying import duty on it then... and you can thank the mendacious folk at vote leave for that.'
You get that the UK government sets our import taxes right, so there's no reason bar a desire to be unpopular on the part of HMG that such a thing would happen. The EU could set an export tax if it wanted to make the things it sells us more expensive but that would also be fairly perverse.
>>Bet you're looking forward to paying import duty on it then... and you can thank the mendacious folk at vote leave for that.'
>You get that the UK government sets our import taxes right, so there's no reason bar a desire to be unpopular on the part of HMG that such a thing would happen. The EU could set an export tax if it wanted to make the things it sells us more expensive but that would also be fairly perverse.
Shit, seriously ?
Ok, let me point this out: The KB, I intentionally left out U and G, will have use import duties for subsistence unless they accept the Romanians, Poles and what have you ... which, according to the referendum they cannot.
There, no common market for the KB ... since the EU will impose tariffs on the KB, they have no choice but to do the same.
If you live in Wonderland and believe what the retired Mr Farage said, you are beyond help ... we will make the leave as painful as possible ... and that is coming from me, a "Brit" ... don't worry, not for long .... I am just waiting for article 50 ... come, you idiots, you can do it!
@ SkippyBing
>@ Hans 1, so Project Fear worked on you then? Just checking.
What are you smoking ? That stuff must be serious shit! I lived in Holland for several years and never managed to find anything as strong as what you are taking ...
The EU want to make the brexit as difficult as possible, they are not dumb ... they will make your life hell, because they do not want anybody else to leave ... makes sense ? Thought not!
"You get that the UK government sets our import taxes"
You get that the import taxes would be set according to WTO rules in the event that HMG can't negotiate a position where they get free trade to europe without free movement of people? And you also realise that getting such an agreement - satisfying both those who want to get rid of foreigners and those who want to avoid shafting the UK economy - is basically mission impossible?
Of course, HMG could unilaterally decide not to levy an import duty on foodstuffs from the EU, but I doubt that would go down very well with UK food producers, would it? Or are you suggesting that HP sauce should be given a specific exception?
"You get that the import taxes would be set according to WTO rules in the event that HMG can't negotiate a position where they get free trade to europe.."
Bollocks. Any country is free to have no import taxes on any imported items. WTO sets a max for those in the WTO, but with exceptions.
"Any country is free to have no import taxes on any imported items"
Sure, the WTO rules would set a maximum level on the import tax that can be applied, not prescribe the actual rate that should be applied. But do you seriously think that after the inevitably messy divorce the EU would set any of their tariffs at a lower rate than the maximum allowable? Pour encourager les autres and all that.
If you think that British food producers would let HMG set a zero rate on import of EU foodstuffs into the UK without a similar deal for them (i.e. the single market, basically) then you're not really thinking things through. Or do you really believe that the foreigners can be removed from the UK without consequences? Or that the leave voters will be satisfied by any deal without immigration controls? Or that any compromise situation could be reached within two years from the start of article 50 negotiations? You probably still believe the "pants on fire" £350m per week figure too. Bless.
The very best you can hope for post-Brexit EU trade is several painful years on WTO rules which gradually eases over time as the negotiators finally sort out better trade deals with the EU. Whether Brexit can be made to work at all without impoverishing us is therefore mainly about what trade deals can be cooked up with the rest of the world *before* article 50 is triggered - which means of course we'll be in the shat bed of peri-Brexit uncertainty for years to come while those deals are worked out. The cynic in me also says that as the potential trade partners know that we're in a desperate situation (i.e. pre-EU shafting), the deals won't be particularly good anyway.
"The cynic in me also says that as the potential trade partners know that we're in a desperate situation (i.e. pre-EU shafting), the deals won't be particularly good anyway."
No need to worry! Boris "The Fat Knight" Johnson will come to the rescue with his irresistible charm and get us fantastic deals all over the world (mainly the commonwealth)!
With such talent working for us, there is nothing to fear at all! (Unless you are a small 10 year old Japanese schoolboy, that is.)
"You get that the UK government sets our import taxes"
The import taxes into the UK from the EU are likely to bear some relationship to the import taxes into the EU from the UK. That depends on how negotiations go. They could, of course be zero if there's access to the single market but that would be part and parcel of an agreement allowing free movement. And free movement, of course was one of the things Brexiteers are said not to like. What's more, single market T&Cs in the future will be decided without any UK input so there will be less control than ever. And control is one of the things Brexiteers are said to want.
Without access to the single market? Well here's one pointer http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37024707
So if you get that, do you not understand that what actually matters is not the customs duty we charge them? It's what they charge us that penalises UK products in other markets. And if Brexit occurs, that's what will happen. If we make any sauce that Europeans actually want to eat, it will be priced up as it crosses the Channel, which will make it more expensive in the Continental shops and therefore less popular.
Or maybe, Leavers just don't understand how international trade works?
"maybe, Leavers just don't understand how international trade works?"
Nail on the head, right there.
It's worth pointing out that the customs duty we charge the EU will matter, as it will affect whether our food producers are able to be competitive against EU producers exporting to Britain. HMG would have to match the tariffs simply to keep that sector of the UK economy alive. This will make EU goods more expensive in the UK, which will likely mean that it just doesn't make sense importing low-margin commodity items like milk, butter, vegetables etc. On the other hand, there are items which will just increase in price, but still be worth trading as the UK doesn't produce direct equivalents - wine, cheese, beer etc (and BMWs, though that's slightly off-topic).
HP sauce probably fits in the latter category, so it'll just have a price hike to cover the import tax (the producer absorbing this costs seems unlikely). This will make the upmarket (but domestically produced) Tiptree alternative more attractive. This is what Brexit means - less choice, tariffs on some of the remaining choices, and therefore higher prices overall.
But Ms May has promised that there will be no border controls between the Republic of Ireland (part of the EU and a country we have personal freedom of movement with that predates the EU) and Northern Ireland.
So assuming that the EU don't notice this wide open back door to the free market, and there are no customs borders between the two British Isles as a result, then tariff free HP sauce is still going to be possible. (Of course quite how they expect to stop European people taking exactly the same route, and meeting the promise to control our borders, I haven't quite figured out.)
tariff free HP sauce is still going to be possible.
There used to be a brand of sausages from Dublin (Hafner, I think) that were much coveted by those in the North, but could not be legally imported due to agricultural anti-disease rules. In the Republic, though, there was great demand for condoms, which could not be legally sold or imported for sale.
I remember my Dad telling me that there used to be many deals done in the back rooms of conference hotels where delegates from the North would arrive with suitcases hiding boxes of Durex under the shirts, and leave with those cases filled with best Irish pork products.
In more recent times it was found that you could get 6 (square) bottles of Bushmills Whiskey into a soap power box, with enough room on top for a covering of detergent. Always a favorite for the cross-border shopping trips. Market days around the border also used to see kids with wheelbarrows hanging around, charging a could of quid to help you take your shopping home via the unapproved (i.e. without customs posts) lanes... Traffic direction depended on the VAT and exchange rates currently in effect.
There's always a way.
"Ms May has promised that there will be no border controls" re: Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
I'm intrigued that Ms May feels she can make promises on what the government of the Republic of Ireland and they rest of the EU can and will allow after Britain separates from the EU. Is this one of those promises like that nice Mr Cameron's "we will cut immigration numbers from the EU"? You know, the ones they hiss through their back teeth to make you put the cross in the right box on the ballot paper? The ones that they have no intention of keeping - and indeed no means of keeping?
The border status between the two parts of Ireland is going to be a thorny one to resolve. On the one hand no-one on either side of the divide wants border controls, as it would be massively disruptive to their lives. But on the other hand you have the possibility of it becoming a back door between Britain and the EU - which the rest of the EU is not going to permit. As I understand it ROI was unable to join Schengen for a similar reason, but having an open border with one side out of the EU is a whole different kettle of fish.
The site of the HP Sauce factory now houses an East End Foods processing unit. I pass by on the (clockwise) No 8 bus quite often. It was the UK company that 'rationalised' production by the way. I'm sure that many here are familiar with 'rationalisation'.
Coat: mine's the one with the Network pass.
Ironic... ...that HP sauce is made in the Netherlands.
Not to mention the bacon it often accompanies commonly being a product of Denmark, to form part of that most British of delicacies, the good ol' Bacon Sarnie.
Although seemingly you can't wash it down with a mug of tea and still stay?
"Although seemingly you can't wash it down with a mug of tea and still stay?"
Spoiler; I'm willing to bet that your mug of "Yorkshire Tea" wasn't actually grown on the tea plantations of Yorkshire either. (^_^)
Anyway, while it was said half-jokingly, I'll take issue with "Scotland and London vs. [the rest of] England and Wales" because it's utterly misleading both in suggesting a (nonexistent) connection between the latter pair, and in the implied dynamic of the debate.
I'm quite sure Londoners' vote to "Remain" had nothing to do with any perceived commonality with Scotland. (I'm sure they weren't thinking about Scotland at all). And Scots' vote the same way sure as hell didn't reflect an endorsement of a distant London and the English South East that increasingly unbalances the United Kingdom and has been growing ever more politically distant since the 1980s.
Brexit started out as an (in hindsight horribly misguided) sop by the mainstream Tory leadership towards the anti-EU right-wing of their party in its heartland of the South East of England. It ended up being won by "excluded" voters in the rest of England (and Wales) voting to protest the Tories in Westminster ignoring them and playing right into the hands of those same far-right Tories and UKIP (who I'm pretty sure give even less of a toss about them than the former Tory leadership.) (#)
You'll notice I didn't mention Scotland here, because Scotland had nothing to do with it. The dynamic was defined in terms of London and parts of England (and Wales) that weren't London. Northern English "Leave" voters I've heard interviewed complained much about London, but hardly mentioned Scotland at all, except as a brief contrast or example to judge themselves against.
And the irony is that their complaints about London, and the London-centricity of the United Kingdom are ones I (as a Scot) have held for many years, yet they've done precisely the opposite to what I wanted to happen.
Listening to Radio 4 today, I heard someone describing London as a country in its own right. Which- again- I've been saying for years... except that from my perspective, London is a country within another country (England).
The non-London English voters chose that way to protest another part of *their* country. They're still closer to London in that sense than Scotland.
So, no. There's no real connection between London and Scotland simply because each voted Remain.
(#) But, hey- you got to cut off your noses to spite everyone's faces, and were stupid enough to believe BS claims about money that could "go back to the NHS" from people- UKIP and (more) right-wing Tories- that anyone paying attention knows damn well would like nothing more than to privatise it. Still, I hear that nice Mr. Fox has some good advice on henhouse security.
Yup. And, as a good Brummie, it was my sauce of choice for a bacon buttie. In a fit of pique, I stopped buying it when production left my home town - and switched allegiance to the very English Tiptree Brown Sauce. Why didn’t I switch earlier? HP Sauce is a vile and vinegary mess compared with Tiptree’s most excellent condiment.
That said, and despite my unexplained fit of patriotism (including English suits and shoes, a GT car which has ‘Made in England’ proudly stamped on it, a computer made in the British Isles and so forth) I’m very much a Remainer. I regard myself as a European, my oddly patriotic purchasing notwithstanding. I now feel faintly embarrassed to be British.
@Kane - in part, yes. Also Taiwan, Japan, the US and so forth. A world machine. Who knows? Perhaps some of the components were made in the British Isles too, as well as final assembly. I'll hold it up as an example of what humans can do when they work together as opposed to digging insular little burrows, and trying to lock out people and products from other countries.
trying to lock out people and products from other countries.
Funny how a desire to escape from centralized control and planning and restore some freedoms gets interpreted (by those who like being controlled) as a desire to lock other people out. It's a pity you see life through such a narrow tunnel.
"a desire to escape from centralized control and planning and restore some freedoms"
That's certainly the motivating factor for some of the leave vote, certainly the people I know who voted leave said this was their reason for doing so. Unfortunately, the leave box on the ballot paper was also shared with the people who wanted to get rid of EU immigrants, no matter the cost. There were probably a fair few who only voted leave because they wanted to stick one over on David Cameron.
As far as I know, no-one has yet come up with any figures to quantify how many stand in each camp, but the general tone of the campaigning and the aftermath seems to be that the "Immigrants out" lot are a rather significant chunk of the total. The brexit process will therefore have to take their view into account, including the inevitable protectionism that goes with it.
If only the ballot paper had been written like this:
Should we remain in the EU or leave?
[] Remain - The EU is great!
[] Remain - The EU isn't great, but we'd be worse off outside it.
[] Remain - The EU is crap, but Farage is a wanker.
[] Leave - The EU is anti-democratic and being part of it is no longer in our national interest.
[] Leave - I hate foreigners - kick 'em out.
[] Leave - Oi Cameron, you're a twat!
Then we would have been in a much better position for figuring out what to do next.
I think the class divide is certainly reinforced in everyones' mind by drivel articles like this from the BBC.
After listing the ten brands, the article also then mentions the "expert"'s comment:
"The factors that explain these brand choices are complex and demographics such as age and income play a key role. But even accounting for these factors, by comparing brand choices of voters in the same demographic group, we see the same pattern emerge. For example, the brand choices of Leave and Remain voters in the 18-34 age bracket look remarkably similar to the list above with at least three brands on each side in the top 10,"
So now we have a list of 3 - which is most likely down to what brands you were brought up with.
This stupid, insane comparison of 'Oh the poor unenlightended dears' that is pervading UK society over Brexit votes is pure and utter vomit.
Yes, the vote was most likely the result of an underlying disatisfaction with current politics more than anything else.
Was Brexit a bad outcome - probably, yes. But it has highlighted the real problem with this country. Class bigotry. And not necessarily from the 'working class' either.
Yes, the vote was most likely the result of an underlying disatisfaction with current politics more than anything else.
Was Brexit a bad outcome - probably, yes. But it has highlighted the real problem with this country. Class bigotry. And not necessarily from the 'working class' either.
That seems very consistent with a PM feature 'Brexit Street' consisting of extended interviews with people from Sunderland. Last nights hairdresser seemed to have been largely motivated by the (justified) feeling that her region has been ignored for years by the political elites and her desire was to send a message by voting against what she perceived as the side supported by those elites. I was struck by the irony of handing back more control to Westminster (hardly likely to result in more attention/resources for the North East based on past performance).
I agree that the brands article was probably more about confirmation bias meets self-promotion and I share your worries about societal polarisation.
'Nope. There have been a number of surveys which have all shown the same thing. It's a repeatable result.'
That it may be, but it's merely restating the young vs old argument as the level of university attendance has grown from ~10% in the '80s to ~50% now. Unless you're saying the population has got massively smarter over those three decades it's more an indication of the wider availability of university education than smart Remainers vs stupid Brexiters.
>There have been a number of surveys which have all shown the same thing. It's a repeatable result.
The data is the correlation, but the conclusion drawn may be inaccurate. Perhaps poor people with no taste for fancy cheese or no chance of jetting off to Paris for the weekend feel no need of political union or free-movement of goods or people between European countries.
In an interview with Freakonomics radio, a university researcher (I forget who, but the episode is called "The truth is out there... isn't it?") noted that increased education does not result in more data-based decision-making. Rather, the better educated are better equipped in searching out data which supports their pre-existing ideas (usually shaped by the need to fit in with their social environment) which merely leads to greater polarisation of views, not data-driven consensus.
As for free movement of people, perhaps we should ask the Irish how that went for them? A massive unrestricted influx, forcing house prices through the roof with supply unable to keep up with demand. Then everyone left again, demand plummets and the Irish are left with huge mortgages they can't afford.
The inbound movement looks like a boom, but "free movement" implies the likelihood of mass emigration as well as people swill around the continent looking for jobs. Of course, wanting to stop emigration is (a) creepy and (b) neither racist nor homophobic, so its entirely uninteresting to the BBC, but the emigration only happened because of the previous immigration. The problem may look like nationalism, but that may be just because wealth distribution and thus the impetus to move is based around historical national borders. I suspect we'd get the same attitude in Nottingham if a few tens of thousands of Londoners showed up on their doorstep.
I wonder if the Irish think that 25-30 year personal debt is worth (maybe) not getting your passport stamped on holiday?
For me it's the data collection part which is suspect. Did they really have the following survey:
1. Do you want to leave the EU?
2. Do you want HP sauce with that?
Of course they didn't. What they did do - relying on YouGov profiles - is barely more credible than just pulling the figures out of their arses.
The story fits a popular narrative which makes remain voters feel better about themselves, so it'll keep getting air time regardless of it's dubious quality. As will stories about the latest EU bureaucracy cockup, which are endlessly popular with the leave mob. And so the news cycle continues.
Funny thing, the Leavers I know all have degrees. Some of them more than one. And all of them fully aware of the actual implications of leaving the EU. (shrugs) Anecdotal rather than a proper survey, I know, but that's a heck of a statistical blip if it goes against the run of what atcually happened in the country. Then again, given the amount of minsinformation from both sides of the referendum campaign (which had very little effect on most folk I know - minds were made up well beforehand), I'm not sure I;d tryust any survey results relating to the referendum unless i coudl see details of the methodology used.
"The Remainers’ seven includes BBC iPlayer, Instagram, Spotify and Twitter."
Any sense of Remainers' condescending smugness should disappear with the inclusion of Instagram and Twitter.... it should disappear, but I suspect that Instagram and Twitter are prime ingredients for that smugness in the first place.
So, let's see if I've got this right.
People interested in the world around them - news, travel, information, technology - voted stay.
People interested in their lives, right here, right now - fast food, basically - voted leave.
It seems Michael Gove was right. People really are fed up listening to experts.
I'm going to go home via the London Underground and then on a Virgin Trains service to have a plate of either home-made Cathedral City cheese and onion pie & chips with HP sauce or Richmond Sausages and mash with Bisto gravy and a mug of tea (not PG Tips though, Clipper Organic from Waitrose) whilst watching the BBC news and Robot Wars on iPlayer.
As for the referendum, I couldn't make up my mind.
Very well I would say Hans. Chilean wine, English sausages, no beer, no garlic, just edible food, no sauce, HP or others, no cattle truck airways, in fact no airports, - ever.
No streaming musak, no antisocial networking, in fact I went down the bizarre lists representing go and stay and found hardly anything on either that I would use. Does anyone seriously watch Murdock's satellite news?
I could go on but that 'study' belongs in the fiction section's ablution facilities of the local library, no doubt being attended by a graduate of some new University where they studied practical public health matters for no more than three whole hours per week and at vast personal cost. Now they wonder why they ran up a 30 year debt for nothing.
Decent quality British beer and sausages are perfectly acceptable. We don't make much wine, but there are plenty of good ones from the "new world" producers, often much better value than French wine as well. But that's not the point - even if/when Britain does leave the single market we will still be able to buy those products - they'll just cost more due to the import tax. Just like HP sauce.
"Now hurry up and sort it out!!1!!"
"Hang on.. you created the problem so it is not my problem."
"Fucking is. Where are my curved Bananas in bunches of more than three!!1!!"
"In the shops?"
"And my £350 million a week for the NHS!!1!!"
"Did not exist in the first place."
"Fucking Did Toooooo."
"OK, you try and find it.. everyone else has run away."
"Look Cunt!!1!! I voted for free beer and curried Richmond Sausage Sandwich every night."
"Did you expect an extra shag with that?"
"Damn Right. Plus extra helpings of Good British Spotted Dick and Custard."
"Was it in the manifesto?"
"No!!1!! but all the other stuff was so what's the difference?"
"Did anyone you voted for ever deliver on their manifesto?"
"Stop Fucking with my head. Are you a Foreigner?"
"I guess the stuff you want was not there and the stuff you voted for was not there either."
"No. But.. I voted for it so now you have to do it!!1!!"
"Why?"
"Because we live in a Democracy and it is your fucking problem!!1!!"
"Perhaps you mean I get to suffer as a result of your stupidity?"
"Err Yeh. That!!1!! So Fucking sort it."
"Sorry. Can't help you."
They live in London (#4 London Underground)
They stream their media (#2 BBC iPlayer, #5 Spotify)
They go on lots of breaks (#6 Airbnb, #8 Virgin Trains, #10 EasyJet)
And they spend far too long on the Interwebs (#3 Instagram, #7 LinkedIn, #9 Twitter)
Nah, Ceredigion in deepest Wales voted Remain, and we really don't fit the profile.
a) What's a London Underground? Some sort of armed resistance movement?
b) Spotify, iPlayer, Twatbooki, Instagram etc...given the quality of our broadband, I think not
c) Nearest airports are all about 3 hours drive away so no Easyjet
d) Nearest Virgin Train is about 2 hours away.
e) Airbnb - does that mean B & B in a field? We have lots of Yurts for hire!
a) What's a London Underground? Some sort of armed resistance movement?
Not sure about the resistance, but on average it has about the same number of legs as arms. It's some form of torture/mind numbing device to shove as many people in as small a physical space as possible with guaranteed heating (regardless of the weather outside) and, certainly in the evening commute, with a "fragrant" undercurrent. All while oozing sympathy for the hard done by drivers who earn £50k a year largely for pressing "start" and "stop" buttons and occasionally shouting at passengers on a tannoy.
b) Spotify, iPlayer, Twatbooki, Instagram etc...given the quality of our broadband, I think not
You must be on Virgin Broadband (at peak time - 16:00 to 20:00) as well then...
c) Nearest airports are all about 3 hours drive away so no Easyjet
Given that internal flights from where I live take 2 hours to get to (including parking at daylight robbery prices) and at least an hour to get through the security theatre for just a 45m flight I don't think you have much to complain about. Unless you're complaining about the lack of EasyJet and being forced to fly with an airline that even pretends to give a shit?
d) Nearest Virgin Train is about 2 hours away.
Even longer if you live anywhere "serviced" (hahahaha) by Southern Rail.
e) Airbnb - does that mean B & B in a field? We have lots of Yurts for hire!
Been there, done that. Should have booked a hotel. Would have been cheaper. And nicer.
Because it doesn't fit the narrative, obviously. You can sell far more papers with stories about the class divide, EU incompetence, Cornish voting leave but wanting to keep their EU subsidies, "I voted for Brexit but now I wish I hadn't" etc. It's the Daily Mail (/heil/fail) school of journalism - cosy up to people's prejudices to make them feel angry or smug, depending on the effect you want to produce.
Sadly El Reg is becoming ever more prone to this, though it does make for lively (and sometimes quite amusing) forum threads.
Most of my brainy friends claim to have voted "leave".
All these articles claiming only the thick and lumpen would ever vote leave go totally against my personal experience.
Has anyone seen a breakdown of the voting intentions of "hard" subject graduates such as science, maths, engineering vs. soft subject graduates such as History of Art, Sociology, Media Studies, English Lit etc.?
I think those graduates with experience of evidence based analysis voted Leave after a rational look at what the EU actually is and what it has (and has not) achieved.
Everyone I know with experience of discerning the joint in their arm from the place they sit on voted Remain after careful consideration of the complete shitshow that a brexit process was likely to be. In contrast, the Leave voters are the ones who use the word "brainy" to describe people like Michael Gove.
But that's the funny thing about anecdotal evidence - it just fits your own prejudices and doesn't truly help anyone.
I live in a quite affluent midlands suburb - 4+bed houses, lots of shiny new leased white Audis, full of professional couples with kids earning well above average, aged 40+. Of those I know personally it was around 70/30 towards Leave. Yes it's anecdotal.
The mindless labelling of Leavers as stupid simply shows up the stupidity of the people doing the labelling.
Both Leavers AND Remainers came from all sides.
Speak for yourself, I think its a either a pretty defining choice about someones core values and morality to have made or theyre thick, and its a strong factor if I want to be associated with them afterwards as a result.
Or do you not choose your friends very selectively, maybe you just sort of accept people because of what you can get out of them so its ok if they harbour views that jarr with your ideology?
Make no bones, this issue has split the british psyche, and saying it hasn't wont fix that. I'm not sure I personally want to fix it either as that will involve papering over some rather nasty cracks that have been exposed in the short term.
"its a either a pretty defining choice about someones core values and morality to have made or theyre thick"
I think you're being a little too harsh there. That sort of argument leads to the remain side being characterised as spineless cretins and the leave side as the racist thickos - in reality neither is a sensible reflection of reality (well, other than a minority on each side).
The reasoning behind the vote is much more important. Being sceptical of the way the EU is being run and believing that we'd be better off without it is a perfectly valid point of view, as is acknowledging the faults in the EU as an organistion, but thinking that remaining in and reforming from the inside was the best option. I suspect those two positions cover much more than 52% of the population, and there's really not that much between them. Sadly when you're presented with a "in or out" option it tends to be polarising, and any common ground gets lost along the way.
So , Leavers;
1) HP sauce, taken away from the UK and now produced in the Netherlands. An argument for keeping things British and supporting Leave I suppose.
2) Bisto - still produced in the UK by Premier Foods.
3) ITV News?, ITV News?, come on people. Only slightly higher up the rung than Sky news. Still watching this all the time would probably have me voting to leave as well.
4) The Health Lottery. A lottery where good 'ole UK folk can spend thousands trying for the "big win" and contribute to "health related causes" - not even NHS mind and they don't even contribute to these causes as much as the National Lottery does. Run by the company owned by Richard Desmond! I suppose the justification is that this is required at all.
5) Birds Eye - An AMERICAN brand and always has been. I suppose it is difficult for people who voted leave to differentiate between mainland Europeans, Americans or any other continent for that matter (as has been proven with some of the reported post-Brexit racially motivated attacks that have taken place).
6) Iceland - Seriously? If this was the best that Britain could offer supermarket wise then i suppose i'd want to leave as well.
7) Sky News - see 3) and the fact this is owned by an Australian. I don't see them complaining about Sky Sports ruining football.
8) Cathedral city - This is still made in Cornwall, so a good British brand.
9) PG Tips - and this one.
10) Richmond - As in London? Really? It's half-owned by Russian oligarchs. The other half is owned by the Chinese.
As for the Remainers;
1) bbc.co.uk - It's not exactly TheRegister.co.uk is it?
2) BBC iplayer - It's not exactly Netflix is it?
3) Instagram - It's no Facebook, oh, wait a minute..
4) London Underground - Are they actually not on strike this week then?
5) Spotify - It's no Tidal is it? But at least it is European.
6) Airbnb - Another American site.
7) LinkedIn - sigh, this is also an American site.
8) Virgin Trains - It's no Southern Rail is it? At least it is a British "success" story, uses French & Belgian built trains.
9) Twitter - Another American web-site??? sorry i've ran out of characte
10) EasyJet - started by a Greek-Cypriot man who lives in the tax haven of Monaco.
Driving past some of the places where the HGV's park up late at night or early morning and sometimes slowing down looking at the reg plates and everyone is foreign.
Fit extra fuel tanks so no need to pay for fuel in the UK and support our economy to redress in part the transport jobs you’ve taken.
Bring a stash of your fav food from your own country so no need for a bacon butty and spending some cash here.
Drive like f ing morons a lot of the time and don't pay any road tax too, that's a big one for me.
The amount of money that's gone into EU countries road infrastructure etc from the EU parliament is about 20 billion in ten years and the owners of vehicles over there pay a sort of road tax to their respective govs like we do!
I'd like this addressed and improve the lot for our haulage companies.
"Fit extra fuel tanks so no need to pay for fuel in the UK and support our economy to redress in part the transport jobs you’ve taken."
I salute them for not being idiots!
"Bring a stash of your fav food from your own country so no need for a bacon butty and spending some cash here."
I envy them for having something nice to eat, compared to those things you just mentioned.
"Drive like f ing morons a lot of the time and don't pay any road tax too, that's a big one for me."
I see a lot of "locals" driving like you just described. A majority, in fact. And that's just in our little village.
But if you ever go abroad and wish to pay road tax in each country you go to, I'm sure that can be arranged.
Getting on a ferry or going through the channel tunnel with brimmed fuel tanks is a fire risk if an accident occurred, should be dipped before boarding and refused passage if any one tank is more than a quarter full.
So you don't think we have nice food here? Loser!
Watch some dash cam vids on youtube pal, way, way worse than here and watch those ruskies wreck shit.
My road tax and insurance whilst living abroad covered me throughout the whole of Europe and the little van at the time cost 53 Euros per year, the 2 litre turbo diesel 75 and the moped 6.75 a year.
This was a local tax as the main tax was included in the fuel duty and went direct to the area in which I was registered.
It was used by the local councils not the government and they maintained the roads impeccably.
Old thread this one and if your like me sometimes go through previous threads when bored, I sincerely hope you come across this reply and down vote it too, you moron.
Ps.... Anonymous cos who’d put their real name to a load of crap like that?
and love HP type sauces (and open sauce stuff heh), and never watch bbc iplayer(not because its some new fangled interweb thing, but because 99.9999% of the bbc's output is crap)
I suspect the beeb went about 100 yrds from their home base, grabbed and asked 20 people of varying ages what the fav stuff was and if they voted leave or remain...
You would think that the BBC would of been in favour of Brexit - after all EU regulations prevent our modern TVs from emitting interference - like the sort that would be useful to people with a TV detector van.... I'm sure once we leave Europe the UK government will drop this regulation so our TVs can all emit a homing beacon for the BBC.
It's "HAVE!!!" HAVE HAVE HAVE HAVE. NOT "OF".
It is a conjugation of the verb "to be"
You would not say "I of been a winner". Yet you're happy to say "I could of been a winner."
"I of had my dinner". "I could of had my dinner".
The way I know is this is because I was taught proper grammar at a proper fucking English grammar school. The type the gibbering chimps in Labour and LibDems want to get rid of.
"BBC.co.uk was tops with Remainers"
That's understandable: anyone who not only listens regularly to the BBC but actually likes its coverage would naturally think Remaining a great idea. Such people probably think they're informed because they read The Times, The Guardian, or The Daily Mail.
As for the correlation between support for Brexit and lack of attachment to technical brands, that reflects sober common sense and experience. You can love technology in general, but selectively; and no brand justifies unconditional love. (What's that we are often told by wiser heads when someone starts asserting that Linux is always better than Windows - or for that matter the reverse?)
"Such people probably think they're informed because they read The Times, The Guardian, or The Daily Mail."
Interesting selection of titles you gave there. Were you aware that the Daily Mail backed leave? Of course not - experts, fact checking and reality are all disapproved of by true BeLeavers.
On the other side the leave voters think they're informed because they read "Janet and John" and "(U)Kipper the dog", and that's why they believe in fairy stories.
Only kidding! (sort of). If by some strange aberration you do actually want to find out which newspapers really supported remain and which supported leave you could do worse than checking out this wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016), which gives newspapers their own little category. I'll leave it to the reader to decide which list of newspapers includes the quality titles, and which list isn't fit to wipe your arse with.
"Interesting selection of titles you gave there. Were you aware that the Daily Mail backed leave?"
Yes, of course I was. That doesn't in any way affect my assessment of its value as a news source - or my deep pessimism as to the reliability of its opinions. A stopped clock is right once (or twice) a day.
One of the most obvious and most deplorable aspects of the referendum campaign was the almost complete dearth of facts in the arguments of both sides.
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