back to article BBC will ‘retain your viewing history’

Last week the BBC launched a mobile app, called BBC+, delivering “customisable content collections” to your phone or tablet. It’s a personalised service which requires an email address. Last year, when the corporation announced its plans for personalised services, it made several data protection promises. Specifically, Phil …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    English translation needed

    "We have met and continue to engage with the ICO on personal data usage. We regularly review the ICO’s published guidance about current and future legislation, particularly in relation to GDPR. We comply with all aspects of the Data Protection Act and take the operational privacy and security of people’s personal information very seriously."

    I recognise all the words but have a problem extracting meaning. I do, however, recognise the last bit. It occurs frequently in association with "only a few customers were affected" or similar expressions.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: English translation needed

      I do, however, recognise the last bit.

      The first bit (We have met and continue to engage with the ICO on personal data usage etc) sounds to me as if they are looking for loopholes. Why would you need to meet/engage with the ICO other than to see if some wheeze is allowed?

    2. Swarthy

      Re: English translation needed

      I recognise all the words but have a problem extracting meaning.

      That's probably because there isn't one, or they don't want anyone to be able to figure out the meaning.

    3. Mark 85

      Re: English translation needed

      I recognise all the words but have a problem extracting meaning.

      Try this... "We have lots of meetings. The morning pastries are excellent and the lunch and beer are perfect. We also get write all this off our taxes and have a few manager types not on the premises so the worker bees get a few more things done."

      1. 96percentchimp

        Re: English translation needed

        As an outsider who's had meetings at the BBC, I can confirm there is tea and coffee but there are no free pastries and few boozy lunches, mainly because of miserly funts who think that working for any publicly-funded body should be a monastic slog. There might be a subsidised cafe and bar, which is entirely reasonable. The exception is for visiting journalists, politicians and celebs, who are showered with food and booze as they are everywhere, and probably think this applies to everyone else.

  2. Electron Shepherd
    Stop

    It's for marketing...

    As Fearnley says, the BBC is not trying to sell you anything

    Well, either he's lying through his teeth, or http://store.bbc.com/ is about to be closed down.

    I wonder which it is?

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: It's for marketing...

      Certainly if you are not using UK IP address they sell stuff and give you 3rd party adverts.

    2. Crazy Operations Guy

      Re: It's for marketing...

      You also have to consider that while -they- aren't trying to sell you something, they have advertisers that pay a pretty penny to get their hands on it (in fact, television stations were among the first to get on the "sell our customers' data to advertisers" business model). TV viewing habits are quite valuable to advertisers, especially when they can be combined with the mountains of data they are gathering from all their other sources.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's for marketing...

        This is the BBC, they don't have adverts, or advertisers. They are not allowed to as they are publicly funded.

        1. gazthejourno (Written by Reg staff)

          Re: Re: It's for marketing...

          BBC World does. Certain websites of theirs also display ads when viewed from abroad.

    3. 96percentchimp

      Re: It's for marketing...

      You're confusing the BBC with BBC Worldwide.

  3. Jonathan Richards 1

    @Andrew

    Could you ask the BBC specifically whether it has carried out a Privacy Impact Assessment [PDF]?

    If they have, could they share it with us, please? And if they haven't, pray why not?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    and six months down the line...

    The offer of loadsamoney from a Large Ad slinger will make the BBC change their pledge and bang all that lovely data has gone to the Ad men. Once they finish drooling over it, you will get bombarded with Ad for things that you never knew existed let alone wanted just because some relationship was match to a word in a page you once viewed for 5 nano seconds.

    nope. sorry BBC not going to bite.

    Posting Anon for ... well you know why.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Posting Anon for ... well you know why.

      I do. Posting stupid? Post anonymous.

      1. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: Posting Anon for ... well you know why.

        Not that stupid, since the BBC are ready sharing browsing history with the Ads market:

        http://www.krux.com/customer-success/case-studies/bbc-worldwide-case-study/

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: and six months down the line...

      Down votes for marketing cynism? Far too many naive people in this world.

  5. James 51

    Opera use to have a similar pledge about the data they gathered on users of its browser. We're going to find out that that's worth now that it's been bought over. (I know the BBC is not 'commercial' entity but that didn't stop Call Me Dave selling extremely sensitive personal information held by the NHS for a tiny fraction of it's value and there's plenty of MPs who would like to see it privatised or made to pay it's way more (both the BBC and the NHS)).

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Happily there are disposable e-mail addresses and Mailinator.

  6. Buzzword

    Is it any worse than what Netflix or Amazon (presumably) do with your data?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "Is it any worse than what Netflix or Amazon (presumably) do with your data?"

      From the Beeb we should be able to expect better. Much better.

      1. Daggerchild Silver badge

        "From the Beeb we should be able to expect better. Much better"

        Better how? Isn't this boilerplate stuff, several years old, and doesn't the BBC have to buy audience research in regardless?

    2. King Jack
      Headmaster

      Retarded Argument

      Please will you stop using the childish excuse that X is fine because Y and Z are worse. What point are you trying to make?

      1. Buzzword

        Re: Retarded Argument

        My point is why attack X when Y and Z have been doing it for ages? Attack them first.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Retarded Argument

          "My point is why attack X when Y and Z have been doing it for ages? Attack them first."

          Prevention is better than cure.

    3. david bates

      Well for a start Netflix and Amazon have never sent me threatening letters with the possibility of imprisonment behind them for not wanting to use their service...

      1. Phil.T.Tipp
        Big Brother

        Hmmm. The BBC have sent me threatening letters with the possibility of imprisonment behind them for not wanting to use their service.

        I once owned a TV, via which I viewed DVDs and digital video from my Mac and cable TV from Virgin. As a TV owner the BBC demanded that I must be compelled to pay a punitive tax, for not wanting to use their service. I refused, the BBC didn't think this was acceptable, and and the threatening began.

        Think about it.

        1. Chloe Cresswell Silver badge

          I don't have a TV licence, and I've never had a problem.

          But then, unlike your example ("cable TV from Virgin") I don't have a system that receives broadcast TV, the only access I would have to BBC is via iplayer, and I haven't used that since canceling my tv licence either.

          1. Dave 15

            haven't had a problem?

            Wow you are lucky. I don't have a TV anymore, nor devices for watching. I get a letter every other week (which I save and deliver to my MP). I get a visit around once a month (which I refuse to let in my house). Eventually they will get tired of the game and turn up with some court order I expect.

            This is intimidation. If I were a little old pensioner instead of being a bloody minded miserable grumpy old man then I might be scared into all sorts.

            In the UK we are supposed (and I know it is now very clearly no longer the case) we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. It is up 'to them' to build a case and prove you are guilty of an offence, it is NOT up to you to prove yourself innocent.

            I expect we will soon see the day when MPs back down and allow the BBC to charge us all regardless of whether we have any means of viewing tv. They will argue that the bbc provides online stuff for everyone and therefore is allowed the money. This will lead to situations like the one in Germany where a guy with no power never mind tv in a shack in a forest clearing has to have a licence.

            Frankly I would prefer the MPs dismantle the bbc and let it go to a warm place in a handcart

        2. sabroni Silver badge

          re: and cable TV from Virgin

          That counts as broadcast TV, you need a license for that. Should've stuck to the DVDs and iPlayer (not live streaming) and you'd be legally fine.

          Ignorance of the law and all that.....

  7. PhosphorDot

    Arrgh Beeb

    And the other doozy coming from Auntie Beeb is you'll need a TV licence for Iplayer from 1st September 2016.

    Amazing how they can retain your data on the one hand, and on the other are incapable of tying a username/password to your TV licence account.

    More info:

    http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/bbc-iplayer-and-the-tv-licence

    1. phil dude
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Arrgh Beeb

      I notice from that link that in the FAQ "What do I do if I have a license? Your address will be automatically approved...."

      they'll tie it to your IP address apparently....the cynic in me says to start scanning downloads for embedded watermarks...

      P.

      1. PhosphorDot

        Re: Arrgh Beeb

        "What do I do if I have a license? Your address will be automatically approved...."

        Think that's the physical house address, not IP address... .

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Arrgh Beeb

        How will they tie your IP address to your physical address?

        I think they mean your household will be covered and won't get an inspector coming round.

      3. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: Arrgh Beeb

        IP address?

        And the chances of me always accessing iplayer from same IP address will be zero.

        .

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Arrgh Beeb

          It wouldn't surprise me if iPlayer decides to block VPN ranges.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Arrgh Beeb

      Expect a raft of BBC programs to appear on torrent sites, usage in "getIplayer" will increase, and the BBC will be asking ISPs for users IP details to see if any of them ARE connecting to the BBC.

      Cat and mouse again.

      I'll stick with my black and white license.

      PS, as i do not need a license to pick up radio, will the iplayer radio site be covered in this little facade as well???

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: Arrgh Beeb

        PS, as i do not need a license to pick up radio, will the iplayer radio site be covered in this little facade as well???

        You could have found the answer to that by looking at the site linked-to:

        "There will be just two exceptions – watching S4C TV on demand and listening to radio. "

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Arrgh Beeb @ Phil O'Sophical

          It doesn't mention radio and im not sifting through the beebs propaganda to find out.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Arrgh Beeb @ Phil O'Sophical

            The modifications to the communications act due for September may be found http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/704/pdfs/uksi_20160704_en.pdf

            I've yet to work out for certain if "on-demand programme provided by BBC" includes archived music or not, there could still be scope for this to happen.

    3. DavCrav

      Re: Arrgh Beeb

      "And the other doozy coming from Auntie Beeb is you'll need a TV licence for Iplayer from 1st September 2016.

      Amazing how they can retain your data on the one hand, and on the other are incapable of tying a username/password to your TV licence account."

      The suggestion is that you will need to use your TV licence details to access iPlayer so yes, they will know everything about you.

    4. Dave 15

      Re: Arrgh Beeb

      So now when the police and jackbooted licence inspectors visit then they will check not just for TVs but now have an excuse to take every computer, fondle pad, smart phone etc, in the house away for forensic examination... probably for months...

  8. s. pam Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    There's been a rampant history in the BBC

    Of fiddling and diddling and I wouldn't trust them with my pole. Barge pole is optional....!

  9. TheProf
    Facepalm

    How intrusive!

    Step 1: Create new account using disposable email address.

    Step 2: Enjoy.

    Re: Licence required for watching iPlayer. Damn! Now I'll have to watch Click at my mum's house.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: How intrusive!

      Click is broadcast on World Service. AFAIK, you don't need a license for that coz the UK Gov pays for most of it out of the Foreign Office budget (or some other namelss dept).

      Youcan get it outside of the UK no problem so why not inside?

      1. TheProf

        Re: How intrusive!

        The World Service used to be government funded but now, thanks to our wise and noble leaders, it's paid for from the licence fee, limited advertising and profits from BBC Worldwide Ltd.(So says Wiki.)

      2. King Jack
        Thumb Down

        Re: How intrusive!

        Click (the video program) was first an iPlayer exclusive, then went on to be hidden away on BBC news (where nobody knew it was on). Click is like a modern Tomorrow's world but rather than make it available to the masses (BBC1 or BBC2) they hide it away thereby wasting tax payer's money. They send a full staff and crew on jollies all around globe. If the BBC had to earn a living they would make sure this program was publicized and as many people watched as possible. But because of the unique way they are funded (extortion) it doesn't affect the bottomless pit. So the presenters become rich on your dime with next to zero viewers.

        1. TheProf

          Re: How intrusive!

          @King Jack

          It used to be shown on BBC1 on, I think, Monday morning. I didn't realise it had been removed as I watch it on iPlayer.

          As for the presenters being rich: Spencer Kelly is still wearing the military style jacket he bought from C&A.

  10. JakeMS

    Thankfully...

    The BBC do not produce anything worth watching anyway, every time I see a BBC channel it's deadenders, antiques shows, house buying/selling or biased news.

    There used to be a show called Top Gear that was fairly good, but even that's been messed up now.

    So thankfully I'll not be using this service, even more so now they will be retaining and selling your viewing records (They claim they don't, but they will eventually even if in secret, after all.. why collect it if you don't plan to use it?)

    I would suggest to everyone: Ditch your TV License, totally block any and all BBC channels on your TV, block BBC URL's on all your internet accessing kit and just stop paying for the pointless license.

    Or better yet, do it my way, take down your aerial antenna/dish, and sell it on eBay, this way there is no TV signals at all coming from your property, then just hook up a computer with Kodi/Netflix and download anything you intend to watch instead.

    You need to notify them that you do not require a TV license, but they ignore it and still send abusive threatening letters anyway.

    But this way, even if they turn up you can just say "I don't need a TV License". Although, in the 5 years or so I've not paid for a TV license I've not had anyone actually turn up yet, lots of wasted paper from them though.

    1. TheProf

      Re: Thankfully...

      "I would suggest to everyone: Ditch your TV License ............ download anything you intend to watch instead."

      And when no one makes TV or films because there's no profit to be had, what then?

      It wont work. I've ignored all forms of sport for 30 years and yet it's still out there.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thankfully...

      > "The BBC do not produce anything worth watching anyway,"

      Attenborough ... ;)

      1. David Nash Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Thankfully...

        I don't watch a lot of TV but when I do it's mostly BBC. If we're listing worthy BBC output then how about:

        - various sciency programs including but not limited to Sky at Night, some Horizon, etc

        and most definitely Attenborough as already mentioned

        - certain comedies (definitely not Mrs. Brown's Boys although each to their own)

        - HIGNFY

        - loads of good kids programmes

        - Doctor who is still worth a watch, when its on

        - ditto Sherlock

        - Sport if you're into that

        - The news is claimed to be biased by both ends of the political spectrum, so it must be reasonable

        Having all this plus all the crap that I don't like (but others do), and with the only ads trailers for other BBC stuff, makes the licence fee a bargain IMO.

        Seriously, have a look at the A-Z and tell me it's all rubbish.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/a-z/a

        1. JakeMS

          Re: Thankfully...

          There may indeed be things like documentaries which some people may enjoy to watch. But do not forget that in 90% of cases those same documentaries (such as Attenborough) can be purchased on VHS/DVD/Blu-Ray.

          The case is the same with Doctor Who for example.

          As such, if there's one show in particular you really need to see, you could just buy the disc version when it is released, thus no TV License required and you still get to see it.

          However, personally there is nothing from the BBC that I watch.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Thankfully...

      "The BBC do not produce anything worth watching anyway, every time I see a BBC channel"

      You also say "Although, in the 5 years or so I've not paid for a TV license" so are we to take it you're watching someone else's TV?

      "it's deadenders, antiques shows, house buying/selling"

      Such programmes have audiences sufficiently large that it's worth making those programmes. Indeed, if you're watching someone else's TV in order to see these then it would appear that your hosts are amongst that audience. Maybe that audience wouldn't want to watch the programmes you'd prefer.

      " or biased news."

      I take it that this means news that doesn't reflect your own biases. As a general principle I'd expect that the more effective a news organisation is at avoiding bias the more likely it is that people will consider it biassed, an artefact resulting from their own biasses.

      "There used to be a show called Top Gear that was fairly good, but even that's been messed up now."

      Now there you have a point.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Top Gear

        I think you'll find it was Clarkson that buggered up Top Gear when he threw a diva strop and twatted a producer rather than the BBC.

    4. Roj Blake Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Thankfully...

      Licence, not license.

    5. Intractable Potsherd

      Re: Thankfully...

      "The BBC do not produce anything worth watching anyway," - yes, they do: University Challenge. I can't think of anything else, though.

    6. Dave 15

      Re: Thankfully...

      there is Dr Who... but can wait for the dvds if I am honest. But you are right, nothing else

    7. Dave 15

      Re: Thankfully...

      Maybe you don't live somewhere they can easily find, I have had plenty of visits. You don't need to let them in of course... in fact you can write to the TV people and withdraw their right to cross your garden to the door. However eventually they will turn up with legal enforcement to search (and then of course you could in theory sue them for defamation of your character by implying you are a criminal, not that you will win)

      1. JakeMS

        Re: Thankfully...

        I know you don't have to let them in, to be honest I wouldn't. But in the case they do bring law enforcement that would simply find that I have no Live TV and my computers cannot load the BBC websites.

        Thus, legally there is nothing they can do.

        Firstly the computer hooked to the TV with Kodi only has local network access, it cannot access the interwebs at all and my desktop computer blocks the BBC websites.

        Although, they would probably try a few "common" tricks to bypass the computer blocking, but I'm sure using Linux would be enough to confuse them as web proxies won't work (due to firewall configuration) and the only way would be to edit the firewall configuration to unblock them but you'd need root for that, I wouldn't give them root and they would have to attempt to physically beat it out of me.

        But I don't care what they want. The way I see it is, my house, my TV, if I choose not to watch Live TV or BBC and thus not pay for a TV Licence* then that's my choice to make.

    8. Roopee Bronze badge
      FAIL

      Re: Ditch your TV License, totally block any and all BBC channels on your TV...

      Sounds like you're already breaking the law, and this would too - you currently need a TV licence to watch ANY broadcast programs, not just the BBC's. This has been the law in the UK for decades though I only discovered it 10 years ago when the analogue switch off was imminent and I checked to see if I no longer needed a licence since I would no longer be able to receive broadcasts.

      I found I already didn't need one since I never watched broadcasts, just DVDs, so I applied for a refund and got one :) (though not back-dated as far as it should have been). The new rules are basically adding iPlayer to the definition of "broadcast". In September I'll stop using iPlayer, maybe I'll start using NetFlix since it's much cheaper.

      1. JakeMS
        FAIL

        Re: Ditch your TV License, totally block any and all BBC channels on your TV...

        @Roopee, read the next paragraph, you'll find I'm receiving no broadcasts at all as I have no aerial antenna or satellite dishes.

        Also, my TV is technically a computer monitor, just a 32" one used as a TV so does not have an Aerial socket.

        (So they cannot plug a portable one in, in an attempt to make the TV catch a live stream)

        And, with all BBC websites blocked, there is no iPlayer.

        Thus, I do not need a licence. Though I'm sure the BBC would love to be able to charge me for one anyway. Heck they even attempt to charge empty houses.

        Ever moved in to a property that's been empty for a few years to find a ton of no license letters? I have!

  11. Nifty Silver badge

    What if...?

    http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/bbc-iplayer-and-the-tv-licence

    I already have a licence. What will I need to do?

    ...You and anyone living at your address will already be covered to download or watch BBC programmes on demand on iPlayer...

    So what if I download via WiFi at the rail stations / airport / at a mates?

    As long as I live at my licensed address that'll be OK then?

    Whole new ball game.

    1. djack

      Re: What if...?

      No real change.

      Your household TV licence has always covered you for use of wireless transmissions received by a portable, battery-powered device wherever you are. Whether delivery is via long range DVB or short range wifi is irrelevant.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: What if...?

        However if you look a the FAQ, as soon as you charge your phone or tablet somewhere outside your own household while watching iPlayer it magically changes from legal reception to illegal reception.

        BBC iPlayer and the TV Licence

        Will I be covered to use BBC iPlayer when I’m on the go or abroad?

        If you already have a TV Licence for your address, you will be covered to download or watch iPlayer when you’re on the go, provided the device you’re using to watch or download programmes isn’t plugged into the electricity mains at a separate address. If the device is plugged in at a separate address, you will need to be covered by a licence at that address.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Joke

          Re: What if...?

          > However if you look a the FAQ, as soon as you charge your phone or tablet somewhere outside your own household while watching iPlayer it magically changes from legal reception to illegal reception.

          It's okay, Beeb bosses - being technical savants - have thought of this already. The iPlayer app will simply prevent the device from charging when away from home network.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What if...?

          That's just an extension of the battery powered portable TV clause that they had when I was a student (might still exist today). I had a portable black and TV when at Uni (it was a long time ago now) and it took batteries which meant I was covered by my parents license. In the halls in my first year there was one porter (right bastard) who was well known for calling TVL if he thought you were using a TV without a license. People had often wondered why they were targeted by TVL until another porter spilled the beans. So one day I made a decision to watch TV where I'm sure he'll catch me doing it, in the communal area right next door to the Porters office.

          Low and behold I've not had the TV on for two minutes when he comes through the door to the communal utilities area. Spots me watching my TV whilst waiting for my laundry to finish washing and walked over. Asked nonchalantly if I had a license I said No I didn't need one and most people there didn't either because we all used battery powered equipment. I showed him the lack of an attached power cord and said that whilst the picture on the portable wasn't great down here, on floor 8 it was very good. Oh he wasn't happy with that news and asked if I have it in writing anywhere which I did happen to deliberately have. Reads the licensing leaflet with interest and then said he had to check in with the office for his security rounds.

          I can hear him phoning TVL who confirm what I've told/shown him and then the phone was slammed down and he reappeared. Handed me back my piece of paper and said "So your parent's have a TV license do they?" My TV was by today's standards microscopic but it could and did run on batteries if needed, especially for demonstration purposes to nosy git porters. I might have charged batteries away from home and I certainly had a power cord for it in my room for use if the batteries were flat. The porter on the other hand stopped being so aggressive about everyone having a TV license.

        3. Wensleydale Cheese
          Unhappy

          Re: What if...?

          "If the device is plugged in at a separate address, you will need to be covered by a licence at that address."

          Echoes of the TV licencing for students away from the parental home.

          You didn't need a separate licence as long as you used a battery powered telly, rechargeable batteries not allowed.

          Knowing what a dent radio batteries put in my pocket money as a kid, I wasn't going there.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: What if...?

            I don't remember rechargeable batteries being banned in my day they just had to be internal batteries (6 heavy D cells in my case). So you couldn't have your student accommodation as a caravan/mobile home, hook it up to the battery fed power supply in said caravan/motorhome and watch TV.

        4. IsJustabloke
          Facepalm

          Re: What if...?

          "If the device is plugged in at a separate address, you will need to be covered by a licence at that address."

          OK, good luck with that do please let us know how yo get on with enforcing that particular twist.

          SCN: John is at Frank's house. They are watching John's ipad; (effect) Door Knock

          Frank: Quick John unplug the Ipad its the beeb's enforcers!!

          Enforcer: Was that plugged in?

          John: Nope

          Enforcer: Er... right. We'll be watching you chummy!

        5. Cynic_999

          Re: What if...?

          My laptop is charged from a 19 VDC supply, thus does not require a licence even when charging. The charger may be plugged into the mains, but my laptop is not ...

  12. Avatar of They
    Thumb Down

    Have to say

    Don't think I have watched anything on the beeb in many a year. Time and rubbish content mainly, as I don't do anything "reality", "cooking" or "gardening". and Dave shows enough repeats of the only two programs that the BBC did - which I like. (QI and mock the week)

    That being said, only time till even the BBC sells out as a data miner, and the Govt is intent on selling anything they can, so are we shocked?

    Really, I mean anyone think this is going to NOT turn into a cash cow?

  13. Teiwaz

    A pox on them

    Welcome to sell you out Britain.

    Between the gov trying to sell you medical history, to the Beeb trying to grab the opportunity, we just have to wait until Brexit then we'll be reclassified as serfs?

    I've done without broadcast TV for years, iplayer seems not to offer much, and the news site is so still flash locked on video and lacking any detail on text, it's next to useless, I can do without the BBC.

  14. King Jack
    Holmes

    The real goal is..

    Seeing as more and more people are not buying into the BBC extortion that is the license fee. They are slowing moving towards saying, "Look at all the people who use us online, they should pay." Then they will move to have the TV tax include all telephone and broadband users. That way the bottomless pit of money will be secured for generations to come. I myself will go to prison before I submit to extortion. If the BBC want money then make good programs that everyone wants to watch. Not the usual gardening, nature watch, antiques, cooking, dancing, Eastender crap. I know they can do it but it doesn't affect their bottom line whatever they do, so they don't bother. I wish I could run a company funded the same way the BBC is. But there are laws against it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The real goal is..

      When you consider the production value and writing quality of some of the Youtube channels out there. I often wonder where the BBC spunks its cash.

      Slebs are not worth the millions they get paid. Especially on a none commercial TV network.

      If anything license payers should get a dividend back from the profit made selling BBC products abroad.

      Thats how investing in public companies normally works.

    2. Gio Ciampa

      Re: The real goal is..

      I assume you're intending to carry on paying Rupert his extortion money - that's just as bottomless a pit...

      ...especially if (for example) you intend watching any sport at all - all the live golf and cricket now, all the F1 from 2018. I'll wager the FA will shaft Auntie in due course, and then watch the prices rocket!

    3. David Nash Silver badge

      Re: The real goal is..

      "make good programs that everyone wants to watch. Not the usual gardening, nature watch, antiques, cooking, dancing, Eastender crap."

      Are you saying they have to please all of the people all of the time?

      1. King Jack
        Unhappy

        Re: The real goal is..

        No, I'm not saying that. Here is an example. I watched the reboot of robot wars and what I saw was something that looked more like a documentary rather than a fast paced robot fighting competition. The robot wars I remember was all about the fighting, now we get half the program full of boring interviews by the 'egg man' who is ill suited to host this kind of program. I'm sure Dara is a multi-millionaire now as he hosts so many programs. How is this value for money? It is not entertaining and anybody could have done a better job than the BBC. For contrast watch Battlebots from the USA to see what robot wars is really about. If the BBC sought to entertain they would have just bought the series from the US and saved money. But no, The bottomless pit kicks in and we get home made shit.

        FYI I don't subscribe to SKY as the 'monkey man' is even worse than the BBC and like I said I will not be exhorted by anyone.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: The real goal is..

          "For contrast watch Battlebots from the USA to see what robot wars is really about. "

          Although I agree with most of your comments re Robot Wars 2.0, Battlesbots left me cold. Watched one episode and then treated it like sport. ie never watched again.

          Having said, I see it;s time to roll out the venerable XKCD

          <posh voice>Oh yes, we do have a TV somewhere in the house. But we only watch University Challenge.</posh voice>

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: The real goal is..

      " If the BBC want money then make good programs that everyone wants to watch. Not the usual gardening, nature watch, antiques, cooking, dancing, Eastender crap."

      Has it occurred to you that there are few if any programmes that everyone wants but that the programmes the BBC chooses to make are those for which it has the largest number of people wanting to watch?

      1. evilhippo

        Re: The real goal is..

        "but that the programmes the BBC chooses to make are those for which it has the largest number of people wanting to watch?"

        If so many people want to watch what they produce, why are they funded by a tax also taken from people who do not want to watch the BBC?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Gimp

    "surface hidden gems"

    > we will only use it to bring you the things that matter to you, surface hidden gems that you might not otherwise have found

    If this is a promise that I'll never, ever receive a solicitation to watch Eastenders then I'm in. :-)

  16. Baldy50

    Working away most of the time so I watched telly at my cousins house two doors up the road and ate most meals there too, so I'd bought a new telly and transported it to Spain for my mum one Christmas and of course the shop gave my details to the licensing authorities.

    On the sixth visit by them, three times with police in tow cos I wouldn't let them in on the other occasions I finally told the truth.

    The copper can I borrow your step ladders? Yep, sure look around all you like!

    Always had a lovely WPC with them, love a woman in uniform.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Boogeyman, meet Boogeyman.

    On the one hand, this article is a scare story. The BBC has actually had email-verified personalised accounts for many, many years. This is just the latest rebrand.

    On the other hand, I know Mr Fearnley from a past life, so I'm backing into the shadows to popcorn.

  18. jason 7

    Not bothered.

    Don't watch the BBC anymore. So much of their programming is made for the lowest common denominator or overseas markets now.

    1. evilhippo

      Re: Not bothered.

      But if you have a TV in the UK you are paying for it regardless even if you do not watch it.

    2. Gio Ciampa

      Re: Not bothered.

      Do tell me which other set of channels don't do the exact same thing!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Obvious to me

    will retain "some activity data in an anonymised form"

    Because the BBC tracks how often iplayer is accessed and what is watched, and whether it's a repeat viewing or a new viewer, and what else they've watched. And by the time anyone gets around to deleting their account, that info has probably already been analysed and reported on in terms of viewing figures and for the benefit of the programmers and commissioners.

    Unless you want to do an 1984 and un-watch something.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dear BBC

    Now when your country in leaving Europe and apparently joining Asia, I do not care about you at all. Recently, during a visit to Scotland the only channel on the hotel TV that was watchable was BBC Alba (mostly because I do not speak Gaelic). I hope it will become SBC Alba soon, anyway.

    1. IsJustabloke
      Facepalm

      Re: Dear BBC

      I think you'll find the feeling is mutual.

    2. Fink-Nottle

      Re: Dear BBC

      Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue, Mr Trump.

  21. Dave 15

    Oh what does it matter...

    After all the minute the police and uberstazi May cotton on their is another source of information available the BBC will be forced to keep it for 20 years in case they can prove a link between watching big brother and terrorism.

    Then of course the bbc demand an email (heaven only knows what for)... easy enough to get a temp email from a number of places. Its hardly defining data, just really quite pathetic, an unnecessary hindrance that will put a number of people off bothering with the 'service'.

  22. TRT Silver badge

    Why is there no...

    El Reg article on the return of Robot Wars?

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: Why is there no...

      We do bad news, not good news.

      C.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Why is there no...

      What, El Reg suggesting that there are some people who might be getting some value out of the TV Licence?

  23. Fink-Nottle

    One step closer to UK's own State Television App Security Institute ...

  24. chivo243 Silver badge

    Nicely played Auntee

    Charging the product a fee to be the product...

  25. evilhippo

    Best solution: abolish anachronistic tax funded BBC entirely, data problem solved. In any case they have no data on my viewing as I never use their services. Pity I have to pay for them regardless though.

  26. Xsteele

    Sky

    So we're going to compare all broadcasters data policies?

    How long does sky keep its data? What does it keep?

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Databases don't delete data

    There's this thing called data integrity which is critical to modern databases, and it's dependent upon having no data gaps, therefore "deleted" data usually isn't deleted, but simply marked as "deleted."

    This isn't 100% the case, but on modern web-based systems all records (if not most) in a relational database are typically handled as program objects with one or more critical relationships to other program objects which are in turn based on database records. It's a tight-knit web, and removing one segment could bring the whole thing crashing down. To alleviate this issue, developers will typically just add a "deleted" flag to the record when a user requests that it be deleted. The record won't show up in typical data queries ("select all records not marked as deleted"), but it still exists and may even be easily accessible when a related record which hasn't been deleted is accessed.

    Here a practical example of not really deleted data:

    Suppose you create an account with an on-line retailer like Amazon.com, then "delete" your account after several years of on-line shopping. The retailer may mark your account deleted and make it impossible for you to log in any more, but it's extremely unlikely that your account data will be deleted as your order records needs to remain accessible to the retailer for the sake of keeping its financial and inventory records correct, and for the sake of "data integrity" those order records need to be associated with a user account record.

    A less practical but still likely example:

    Suppose you create an account with a social network like Facebook. After years of use you decide you're done with the social network and request that your account be deleted. Your profile may "disappear" from the internet, along with all your posts and comments, but other users have made several comments on your photos, videos, and other posts. Unless these other users' comments are deleted off of their accounts when your account is deleted, they still exist and still point to your account and therefore need your account to exist, albeit flagged as "deleted," for the sake of data integrity.

    It *is* possible to anonymize old data, by overwriting names, phone numbers, e-mail/IP/physical addresses, credit card numbers, etc. with blank, random, or generic information like "deleted," but it takes a *lot* of extra time and effort, and the opposition to this is 1) employers are reluctant to spend any money on having the developers go the extra mile to scrub data which *supposedly* nobody will ever look at again, and 2) most programmers are notoriously lazy bastards who will take any shortcut to make their work go faster, including skipping the development of "unnecessary features."

    Also to consider is that a properly operated web service should regularly make backups of its database. That old backup may include your personal data from before it was deleted, and how long that backup is preserved before being deleted can vary anywhere from a few months to never. If that backup were to fall into the wrong hands, it could be put to misuse as easily as a compromised live database.

  28. evilhippo

    My viewing history of the BBC is nothing whatsoever. Pity I still have to pay for them though.

  29. Conundrum1885

    My TV

    Hasn't been on since at least December last year, mostly because it gets used as a monitor for RPi, PC etc.

    Still, it does seem a little unfair that I have to pay for a service that never gets used, resulting in my being unable to afford broadband.

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