back to article Iraqi government finally bans debunked bomb-finding dowsing rods

So-called Advanced Detection Equipment (ADE) used by the Iraqi army to find explosives have been scrapped – more than three years after the devices were proved to be fakes. Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi ordered a halt to the use of the dowsing-rod-like gadgets after they failed to detect explosives on a truck that killed …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Did they not...

    Like, test them?

    1. joed

      Re: Did they not...

      Psychological warfare - idiots with bombs were freaking out and maybe few got caught (or exploded prematurely). Initially. Once the secret was out rods stopped working.

      Anyway, someone made nice profit just like bunch of other MICs on the Iraq adventure.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Did they not...

        Yes and they were discovered to be just as effective as mass surveillance of people's internet history

    2. theblackhand

      Re: Did they not...

      I thought they were almost 100% effective where the IED's contained golf balls for shrapnel?

      Once the baddies stopped using golf balls as shrapnel in IED's due to the cost increases in the second hand golf ball market as well as unresolved questions about where newer ball designs really did improve distance and accuracy, the detectors were useless.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anyone read the full story....

    How did this ever work as a con.... Early tests would have uncovered the joke, no?

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: Anyone read the full story....

      Amazing how utter crap suddenly gets signed off as genuine when large amounts of money are accidentally left outside officials' houses in briefcases.

      C.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Anyone read the full story....

        @ diodesign

        Amazing how utter crap suddenly gets signed off

        The first thing which came to my mind when I read those words was - "F-35"

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "crap gets signed off as genuine when large amounts of money are left outside officials houses"

        This is still 'Burn After Reading' hilarious, and it just leaves more unanswered questions:

        Q1. How did the scammer assemble enough bundles of throw-a-way cash to complete the 'early' first bribes... Its chicken/egg syndrome.... The first bundles must have been pretty large to make it 'worth it' to officials to put their careers on the line...???

        Q2: How did the scammer locate corruptible officials to help cook the tests and fool upper management, without falling prey to being ratting out or extorted back...???

        Q3: What happened when boxes were damaged or opened, how come no engineers discovered the truth for so long?

        1. Justicesays
          Trollface

          Re: "crap gets signed off as genuine when large amounts of money are left outside officials houses"

          >unanswered questions:

          A1: Dear Mr Corrupt Government official. I am a provider of "bomb detection" hardware that is both fake and really cheap to make. I understand you have load of cash from the Americans etc. to stop terrorists in Iraq. If you pay me military hardware prices for these "bomb detectors" I will give you X% of the money in an untraceable foreign account.

          Yours,

          Massive Crook.

          A2: Golf course buddies.

          A3: Once people started using them, they became convinced they worked due to various psychological pressures like

          1: because they would look stupid if they said they didn't work in front of everyone else (peer pressure)

          2: coincidental bomb finds causes belief in effectiveness , missed bombs blamed on user error (magic/prayer effect)

          3: Would look bad if they had been an idiot all along, so ignore evidence to contrary (cognitive dissonance)

    2. Mike 16

      Early tests...

      It appears you have never worked in one of those places where the managers buy the proles loads of worthless crap from their golfing buddies, secure in the knowledge that _they_ won't be around when it all blows up. Apparently the managers in this case couldn't come up with the full amount for sweeping 300 deaths under the carpet, so GAME OVER.

      1. phuzz Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Early tests...

        "secure in the knowledge that _they_ won't be around when it all blows up"

        As senior members of the Iraqi government, presumably they should have been worried about things literally blowing up around them, especially if they knew that the security forces didn't have working bomb detectors.

        Making money off of bribes isn't much use if you get blown up.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Anyone read the full story....

      You assume they conducted proper blind tests.

      The way I read it, the crook that went to jail was paying kickbacks to the government officials who were buying this - they knew it was crap but didn't care because they were getting rich. They could make sure at least some tests were rigged to show they worked - hence "inconclusive", because some tests they worked 100% and some they were no better than chance...and those failures could be blamed on operator error!

  3. Teiwaz
    Coat

    I had some success in the past with a pair of dowsing rods (just bent coat hangers), I've found lost items, including my fathers signet ring lost in the garden (quit quickly as I recall). It's not the tool, it's the human connection to his environment and the universe.

    Clearly in this case it's a rip.

    My coat, 'cause the mainstream science guys are already lighting their torches

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "dowsing"

      Really?

      Wow.

      1. Dr Scrum Master

        Re: "dowsing"

        Would the success at dowsing in any way be related to walking up and down the area in question and looking down?

        1. Danny 14

          Re: "dowsing"

          I once prayed to zeus as i was running late and couldnt find my car keys. Low and behold i found them under the sofa. CHEERS ZEUS!

          1. Triggerfish

            Re: "dowsing"

            Oi blasphemer, that's Anoia you should be thanking.

            1. Teiwaz

              Re: "dowsing"

              What, Anoia, the Goddess of things stuck in drawers.....?

              1. Triggerfish

                Re: "dowsing"

                What, Anoia, the Goddess of things stuck in drawers.....?

                Also lost keys, objects that roll under other objects, things stuck in sofa cushions, considering handling stuck zippers. Has a sideline in lost causes. Rattle drawers* in her name.

                *Kitchen ones, saucy.

        2. Teiwaz

          Re: "dowsing"

          "Would the success at dowsing in any way be related to walking up and down the area in question and looking down?"

          - Well, if you were going to do it that way, it'd be more logical to divide the area into small squares with bits of string and actually get on your hands and knees and search properly. Walking up and down looking down is just trusting to luck.

          1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

            Re: "dowsing"

            Walking up and down looking down is just trusting to luck.

            Whereas dowsing on the other hand...

            1. Triggerfish

              Re: "dowsing"

              Walking up and down looking down is just trusting to luck.

              Or a basic search pattern.

    2. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
      WTF?

      See icon ->

    3. Brian Miller

      The problem is that dowsing isn't reliable. Finding modern plastic ordinance is difficult enough for good metal detectors, never mind tromping around on top of what you're looking for.

      I've seen dowsing work, but that was for water dowsing shallow wells, not sweeping a mine field.

      1. Ed_UK

        "I've seen dowsing work, but that was for water dowsing shallow wells"

        Well, there's a cool million bucks from James Randi waiting for someone. Funnily, it has remained unclaimed all these years.

  4. Mark 85
    Facepalm

    The CEO gets jail time for fraud on these and their customers kept using them. Unfreakinglybelievable.

    1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

      If they stopped using them they would have to admit that they pissed away millions on woo...

      1. wilber

        The report that I read yesterday was 20 MILLION!

    2. Tom Samplonius

      "The CEO gets jail time for fraud on these and their customers kept using them. Unfreakinglybelievable."

      Iraq is basically a war zone. The police and army are filled green recruits who are so poor and desperate that would a highly dangerous job. For instance, in 2005, 4250 police officers were killed. Police work is a step up from starvation. Also, English is not an official language in Iraq. Given the situation, it is surprising that police units actually became aware that someone was jailed in the UK about selling fake detectors. It is very likely that the leaders have known for some time that the devices were fake, but let the police continue to use them.

      In a suspected suicide bomber situation, the bomber might think they were discovered when the police start waving a bomb "detector" in their direction, and prematurely detonate the bomb. In that situation, the police officer is going to die whether the detector is fake or not.

      So not so unbelievable.

    3. Triggerfish

      I think the Jail time was wrong, wen't to Laos a long while ago. Most bombed country on the planet lots of unexploded ordanance everywhere.

      I vote community service abroad. Here's some dowsing rods, I mean ADE. Here's a copy of bomb disarming for dummies. You just work your way back to us through this field....

      1. Triggerfish

        I don't know why I have a apostrophe on went BTW, before you ask.

  5. Winkypop Silver badge
    Mushroom

    "about as reliable as homeopathy"

    BoooOOOOOoooom!

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: "about as reliable as homeopathy"

      Oh no, your leg's been blown off! Here, drink this tincture of asafoetida and you'll feel right as rain!

      (I needed to look up a suitably cromulent homeopathic remedy, and a quick search lead me to this page, which is so full of woo I can't even)

      1. Eddy Ito
        Coat

        Re: "about as reliable as homeopathy"

        And here I thought arseafoetida was a symptom of a digestive problem and/or rectal leakage. I guess it's true, you learn something new every day.

        The one with Prep-H in the pocket, thanks.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: "about as reliable as homeopathy"

          > And here I thought arseafoetida was a symptom of a digestive problem

          Well, aseafoetida is used in some North Indian cooking.. Done incorrectly, symptoms may be similar!

          (The foetid bit is fairly accurate - use too large a dose and the result is inedible unless you *really* like lower-digestive-tract flavoured foods..)

  6. Jin

    Similar case found in cyber space

    This new reminds me of the biometrics misused for cybersecurity.

    For more, have a look at this 2-minute video.

    - Biometrics in Cyber Space - "below-one" factor authentication

    https://youtu.be/wuhB5vxKYlg

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still in use in Pakistan

    Says a load about the collective IQ of the people running the country..

    We're all doomed!!!!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Still in use in Pakistan

      You must be quite the intellectual yourself since you can guess peoples IQ from your armchair. By the way, believing in science does not make you a scientist.

      Pakistan is home to the earliest civilisation. They developed their own nukes too. I doubt you can claim either of those.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Still in use in Pakistan

        >They developed their own nukes too

        With more than a little help from Urenco - and Kahn was trained/educated in Europe (Berlin/Holland).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      Re: Still in use in Pakistan

      Says a load about the collective IQ of the people running the country.

      It doesn't say anything about their intelligence, but it speaks volumes about their integrity.

      1. Mark 85
        Coat

        Re: Still in use in Pakistan

        Says a load about the collective IQ of the people running the country.

        It doesn't say anything about their intelligence, but it speaks volumes about their integrity.

        Well.. that is where most of the Microsoft Tech Support "You have many viruses" calls seem to originate....

        Got me coat, I'll go quietly.

  8. Schultz
    Go

    But they did work!

    Comprehensive testing showed that the devices correctly identified random samples of explosives and nonexplosives some 50% of the time.

    That's better than nothing, innit?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Perhaps they did work

    Does it matter that the detectors did not work as advertised if potential attackers believed they did and they therefore worked as a deterrent?

    How much did having a device which did not work factor into people being willing to put themselves out there in a war zone when they might not have done that with nothing?

    1. d3vy

      Re: Perhaps they did work

      "Does it matter that the detectors did not work as advertised if potential attackers believed they did and they therefore worked as a deterrent?"

      Of course it matters you muppet.

      IF (and its a big if) the people using the devices knew that they didnt work and were simply a deterrent then yes, maybe. But as they were sold as working bomb detectors and the operators believed them to work people died.

      Imagine for a second you're in Iraq. For some reason you are a potential target, your car has been checked for explosives by a guy waving a bent coat hanger over it. He declares it safe. What do you do?

    2. Triggerfish

      Re: Perhaps they did work

      Try asking that question when you're the guy doing the checkpoint job.

  10. d3vy

    "anyone else with a brain warned that the crackpot gizmos were about as reliable as homeopathy"

    Unlikely to be that reliable... at least with homeopathy there can be a placebo effect.

    1. Mark 85

      @d3vy -- placebo effect

      I'm sure there was a placebo effect here also. Not just for the security types waving them but for those all around. It's sort of like TSA here in the States. Everyone thinks they provide security and so they feel the warm fuzzy of being safe.

  11. Stevie

    Bah!

    So dowsing doesn't work? Next you'll be telling us spoons can't be bent by mind power.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Magic Beans! Get ya magic beans right here....

    Get them while they're hot!

  13. GrumpyKiwi
    Black Helicopters

    I blame Tom Clancy

    ...for including this load of pseudo-science cobblers in his Rainbow Six novels - instant credibility right there.

  14. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "about as reliable as homeopathy"

    Sadly, we have MPs and even Govt. Ministers who believe homoeopathy works.

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