That last paragraph is this whole f'd up mess in a nutshell.
Time to re-file your patents and trademarks, Britain
Businesses will likely need to re-file their patents and trademarks in the UK following the Brexit vote, leading intellectual property lawyers have warned. The decision to leave the European Union puts a big question mark over "automatic EU-wide IP protection," says patent law specialist Iain Connor of Pinsent Masons, writing …
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Saturday 25th June 2016 14:00 GMT sabroni
re: also the ideal solution.
" if the UK wants to ensure that it is not at a disadvantage in the global marketplace, it would likely need to adopt European rules wholesale, while not being in a position to influence their development."
That's an ideal solution to what, precisely? Having some influence?
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Sunday 26th June 2016 00:37 GMT Pat Att
Do you mean the UPC? That will be (or would have been) German, French and English judges mainly, with the option of having local judges. If you do mean the EPC (European Patent Convention) then that is unchanged with Brexit, where only local judges are involved. UK patent judges are very switched on, and techically savvy.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 20:40 GMT keithpeter
@YetAnotherLocksmith and all
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Pissing in the wind, but l'd love to see this hit 10 million if it can just to cause Boris a little more discomfort. His face was a picture when he realised that he was holding the bag.
Back on topic: what did people do before EU wide patents? File in all the most important markets?
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Sunday 26th June 2016 20:44 GMT Anonymous Coward
> Back on topic: what did people do before EU wide patents? File in all the most important markets?
From what I recall (admittedly from quite a few years ago) in the company I worked for the rule was to apply in US, UK and Taiwan and then possibly consider other jursdictions and the "EU patent" which was being promoted at the time was not really worthwhile.
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Friday 24th June 2016 22:50 GMT raving angry loony
Re: And so it starts.
I have no idea if your statement is true or not, but why would it be a surprise if it was?
There was a warning prior to Brexit that the Calais border agreement would be jeopardized should the UK vote to leave. The arrangement, where the French allow British police to operate on French soil, is based on the UK being part of the EU. Since the UK will be leaving, it makes sense that all those refugee claimants be moved to the UK side. Not France's problem any more, why would they let a quitter operate on their territory?
Unless there are treaties in place, countries are generally not responsible for people leaving their country, only for controlling who gets in. Let the UK deal with its own refugee claimants on its own soil, since that seems to have been one of the reasons they voted to leave the EU in the first place.
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Friday 24th June 2016 23:56 GMT The Nazz
Re: And so it starts.
Easiest of responses to France.
Apply the law, international standards :
Return those would be illegal immigrants to the last safe country they passed through ie France. By air if necessary, parachutes on request.
It is perfectly clear from the results what the one overriding issue is.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 08:58 GMT raving angry loony
Re: And so it starts.
Except the aren't "illegal immigrants". They're "refugees" (technically: asylum seekers). They therefore fall under the United Nations 1951 Convention & 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, where refoulement is specifically forbidden. Admittedly you wouldn't be the first to ignore that clause, but just thought I should point out that your attitude is contrary to the very laws you claim to be using to support your xenophobia.
Meanwhile, the overriding issue seems to be a growing sense of xenophobia, ignorance, and fear in the UK which has been used by certain self-serving politicians to drive this particular issue. Good luck with that.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 09:43 GMT Phil O'Sophical
Re: And so it starts.
Except that "refoulement" in that sense refers to returning them to their country of origin, which generally isn't France. If the French applied international law, and abided by the Dublin agreement, they would require those asylum seekers to request asylum in France.
Once the migrants/asylum seekers are in Europe, EU or otherwise, it's too late to deal with the problem anyway. The only real solution is to prevent them from leaving their own country, preferably by stopping that country from being a war zone. Encouraging them to run away from the problem and export it to Europe doesn't help.
That solution, of course, is independent of the EU, and of UK membership of the EU, which is why the whole migrant issue is a red herring as far as Brexit was concerned.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 15:08 GMT YARR
After we leave the EU and have a points based system, the category of migrants in the Calais camp will be automatically refused entry, and will have to return to their own country to find work. The burden of our dysfunctional ultra-liberal border policy will be gone and the rest of Europe will probably demand the same system.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 18:06 GMT Eponymous Cowherd
They are illegals you pillock. They aren't going to present themselves to immigration officers and ask to be let in.
At the moment trucks, cars, etc are searched on the French side of the channel. Catching an illegal on a truck on which he has to stay if he wants to get to the UK is a lot more effective than trying to catch them once they are this side of the channel and merely have to scarper as soon as the truck doors open.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 06:54 GMT Disgusted of Cheltenham
Re: And so it starts.
No, there was a threat about Calais, until someone checked and found it was a bilateral and not EU agreement, similar to the position on the border between US and Canada.
Just because we can now do stupid things doesn't mean that we will stop seasonal workers or make it harder for tourists. Our current mess is partly because of the refusal by the head of the civil service to allow it to consider plan B on the grounds that it wasn't government policy - ignoring the point that the government had, for better or worse, pushed this one over to the people. Of course we now hear that the Bank of England and Treasury have been working on it. But the last budget should have had in and out options.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 20:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: And so it starts.
"It's not true. The Mayor of Calais is at it again, asking for the border to be moved back."
... and the French President has issued a statement to say its a bilateral agreement and not affected by any EU decision. In addition, last week the French found the arrangement quite useful last week to stop the "aid convoy" in Dover.
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Monday 27th June 2016 11:28 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: And so it starts.
"Apparently France want to have us maintaining our own channel tunnel border now - what a surprise"
That border crossing in France is an agreement between France and UK and it's manned by UK staff. It is not an EU organized thing. So the only thing beginning here is the bullshit from the sky-falling crowd.
European Patent office has long been a rogue element. Do you recall how they tried to change the law to support software patents, by applying caselaw from the European Patent Court (i.e. themselves) to re-interpret the treaty they exist under? There was zero input from ANY state into that too, that office has some serious issues.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 09:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: 'EU' -> 'UK' -> 'K'
Seems unlikely that NI would vote to leave the UK, since the Brexit leave vote was unsurprisingly strongest in the pro-union heartlands, and the remain vote strongest in the border counties. That closely matches the results of previous independence polls (with the notable exception of N. Down)
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Sunday 26th June 2016 21:10 GMT MR J
Re: 'EU' -> 'UK' -> 'K'
It might seem unlikely that NI would want to leave the UK, but now that the UK is out of the EU then they may well decide to go that path.
The truth here is that no one will know what will happen until it happens.
I love the talk tho, we are going to open up a "points" system so we can bring in people to pick the fruit and do other jobs that the UK people don't want to do. It's funny because a lot of the migration that was taking place was people moving to do this exact thing - without points!.
Let us see just what happens over this next week. There will be a lot of economic shock taking place, things that will take a lifetime to recover from.
At least Dyson is happy, probably because the first thing he'll push for is the UK Gov to remove the ban of 1.6kw vacs and get rid of that performance sticker (it is flawed, but it shouldn't be gone - just fixed!).
My guess is that patents and trademarks will be a no-issue thing as it should be easy to add in legislation that will define specific dates for things as counting. Passed in EU in 2015, valid in UK, Passed in EU in EU in 2017, not valid for UK (go file).
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Saturday 25th June 2016 10:38 GMT CowardlyLion
Re: 'EU' -> 'UK' -> 'K'
Except that Great Britain is the name of the island that comprises England, Scotland and Wales.
So, if Scotland leaves we can't call what's left the UK (the union of the the kingdoms of Scotland and England) nor Great Britain, because we only have half the island.
Not that only having part of the continent stops the USA referring to themselves as "America".
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Monday 27th June 2016 16:47 GMT Eddy Ito
Re: 'EU' -> 'UK' -> 'K'
Not that only having part of the continent stops the USA referring to themselves as "America".
Huh, everyone I know here says "U.S." or "us". It's largely only the recent immigrants, folks across one pond or the other, songwriters, and political hacks that say "America" as far as I can tell. Most of us are far too lazy to use all those syllables.
But if you're looking for a new name I actually think "Brex" is both short and catchy.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 05:41 GMT PNGuinn
Re: 'EU' -> 'UK' -> 'K'
The UK is the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland. If Kiltland want to leave it still remains the UK.
It's THEM as 'll have to think up a new name for 'emselves.
Faced with the prospect of the "best" thing in Scotland - the road to England - ie the border being sealed / controlled - and if they go for SCENTRY (you read it here first, folks) it'll have to be - I wonder how many Scots will do to their glorious nationalist leader what the UK as a whole has just done to Davey Mc2face??
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Saturday 25th June 2016 07:30 GMT Rich 11
Re: 'EU' -> 'UK' -> 'K'
The UK is the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland. If Kiltland want to leave it still remains the UK.
Completely wrong. The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The 'United' refers to the Union of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland in 1707. If Scotland leaves, we've got to find another excuse if we want to keep 'United' in the country's name.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 09:47 GMT kmac499
Re: 'EU' -> 'UK' -> 'K'
S'Obvious
We start with The United KIngdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Less Northern Ireland = The United Kingdom of Great Britain
Less Scotland = Little Britain (Yeah I know...)
and if Wales gets pissed off = LIttle England
Which I suspect is what some secretly wanted all along..
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Saturday 25th June 2016 00:30 GMT Vimes
We're still full members of the EU until article 50 of the Lisbon treaty is used, so strictly speaking there is nothing currently stopping the new system from going ahead since it hasn't been invoked nor does it seem likely to be invoked in the near future?
In any case the referendum itself was purely advisory and has no laws behind it that compel us to follow the result. IANAL but where the laws are concerned there would appear to be nothing to stop the government from simply ignoring the result entirely. Of course that would probably never happen & would also have other ramifications but that's a different matter: the only impact it has on how we proceed is whatever the government decides it should be.
http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/five-legal-points-about-the-leave-victory/
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Saturday 25th June 2016 00:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
"In any case the referendum itself was purely advisory"
You have to accept the hand you were dealt. I voted "remain" but am fully resolved now to make the best of "leave". The thing about democracy is it *is* democratic (what we as people simply "do") and is probably able to write laws as it goes about its business. Sometimes the rule of law has to doff its cap to the way of things.
If you are any good at international negotiation then I suspect there will be a few new jobs coming up for grabs soon.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 06:31 GMT Anonymous Coward
There's Leonard Cohen, and there's also (less famously)...
Call It Democracy (Bruce Cockburn). Written 1986 about the International Monetary Fund, still as valid as ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fr6khzOskI (live, with subtitles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfcfdt0jcWs (official, w 'interesting' video)
Money talks. Mostly it says "fuck you, wage slaves".
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Saturday 25th June 2016 07:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
don't blame me. I voted to remain
but in my heart I knew that the sun/mirror/mail/express readers would vote us out.
Like the Iraq war, there was no plan for the situation we are now in. The BREXIT people are leaderless and actually policyless on the subject of what to do now.
If I were in No 10, I'd say to them, 'ok you take charge (Apart from Boris) tomorrow'.
Personally, and as someone who is about to retire I am actively looking to ASAP. I was going to consider France but 'les Frogs' are really peed off with us, as are the Spanish so it might be Italy where I end up.
IMHO, the result was wrong and those left behind (the lights won't be on) will have one god almighty mess to sort out. I get the feeling that a number of large companies will follow quit the UK within 2 years. Then it will be 3M unemployed yet with lots of jobs unfulfilled as the current migrant workforce go home and crops rot in the fields and no little englanders want to do the jobs they leave.
What price then eh?
My best guess is a 15 year depression. -ve interest rates, 10% inflation and 0% wage rises.
Sad, rather sad really but what is done, is done. There is not going back.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 13:02 GMT Chris G
Re: don't blame me. I voted to remain
I am in the process of retiring and already live in Spain, Rajoy and a couple of other 'Know nothings' have made some unpleasant remarks but The Spanish People or at least the ones that I work with and live with on a daily basis have no problem with us expats. Besides, until the UK actually invokes and carries out Article 50, we are still in so get here before that happens and your rights at least will be protected by the Vienna Agreement. I have also made an unintentional killing on the pound taking a dive so I am a little better off and buying a few goodies that would have been expensive here anyway and are now even with shipping affordable from the UK.
Personally it looks as though there may be enough pressure to force a second referendum or dicount this one, so leaving may not actually happen.
Then the UK just needs to find some leaders who are Statesmen with balls who can stand up to Brussels and start politicking instead playing at it, to renegotiate the UK membership terms and tell Frau Merkel to wind her neck in.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 15:14 GMT Baldy50
Re: don't blame me. I voted to remain
Ta! lived there for thirteen years and every local I spoke to didn't agree with joining the EU, no referendum the government just decided and the prices of stuff just went up and up and up, fuel especially but not wages!
Literally in just two days you could add fifteen percent on anything you bought, for a while before you could choose to pay in Peseta's or Euro’s and if you took the time to do the maths, it was cheaper to use Peseta's so everyone new where this was going.
Since the EURO is weaker without the UK as a member the bank of England should down grade the fooking EURO, don't ya think?
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Monday 27th June 2016 07:51 GMT Phil O'Sophical
Re: don't blame me. I voted to remain
Personally it looks as though there may be enough pressure to force a second referendum or dicount this one, so leaving may not actually happen.
That would be the worst possible outcome. It would simply label the UK as a country that doesn't know what it wants, can't make it's mind up, and so can be completely ignored by the EU steamroller. We'd be stuck in the EU, with no credibility, and no power to change it (not that any individual country apart from Germany has any power to change it anyway).
The only option we have now is to make exit work. The defeatists who won't do that, and who seem to want the UK to fail just to prove that they were right, have made themselves part of the problem.
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Monday 27th June 2016 13:24 GMT breakfast
Re: don't blame me. I voted to remain
We'd be stuck in the EU, with no credibility, and no power to change it
Whereas in a post-Brexit agreement that gave us access to the free market, the legendary "Norway style" approach, we would not be in the EU, but we would still be bound by the majority of EU rules with no credibility and no question of having the power to change it. It's a little hard to see how that is better.
Also if a substantial number of people voted based on claims that were immediately revealed to be simple lies ( almost everything the Leave campaign said ) then it doesn't seem as democratic as it might - a misinformed choice that goes against one's best interests puts one onto difficult ground.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 13:01 GMT dajames
Re: Boris seems to be back-pedalling a bit, - Junkers
Junkers is toast (along with quite a few self serving Eurocrats), he will be gone long before we get anywhere near the door marked EU exit.
I'm not so sure ... and it'd be a bit late. I wish we could have been rid of all the federalist idealists (of whom Junkers is not the worst or the most extreme) long ago, then we might not have wanted or needed a referendum at all.
I voted remain because I thought it better to reform from within than to run away, but I find I have little taste for reforming the EU now that we're going to be leaving, I just want to see it implode as fast as possible so that it can be replaced it with what it should have been all along.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 15:14 GMT phil dude
distraction...
My cynical side, can't help but think, that the entire panic this "vote" has generated is all a show - for the ringmasters.
The legally binding point was almost completely missing from *both* campaigns, and since the current PM will not activate "$POKE 50,1", the new *Conservative* leader will be negotiating - and you want to bet that this panic, has made the *countries* of the EU look at the *unelected* commission and migrant volume think "this is a problem".?
Oh and Bojo has been angling to be PM from before his mayoral campaign, I see this as his way of being the savior of the EU and winning a General election...
Too soon?
P.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 00:23 GMT DavCrav
"You have to accept the hand you were dealt. I voted "remain" but am fully resolved now to make the best of "leave"."
People have been saying this, but why exactly? Campaigns change things all the time, without recourse to the populous. Many EU referendums have been either repeated (France, Ireland) or ignored completely (Greece) so why is this one special? Especially since it is clearly causing catastrophic damage. Why should there not be a snap election and a political party runs on annulling the vote? If they are elected, they can do that democratically. Beyond a vague notion of Brexit, what is the mandate for the referendum? Leaving the common market, freedom of movement, EEA, EFTA, all trade at all, and many other partial options? Since the Leave option isn't a solid thing there is no mandate for any one of those things, and so the question is anything but resolved. Would the knuckle-draggers who want no Muslims (they do exist, and have been on the telly) be happy with EEA membership with freedom of movement? Or is that not an option because Leave promised them no people with funny accents living next door?
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Saturday 25th June 2016 00:59 GMT Mark 85
Nice of the patent lawyers to bring this up, this soon after the vote. I'm a bit miffed they didn't bring it up earlier, but not surprised.
But then you won't have to deal with the likes of King Battistelli, either then. Or maybe you will as it'll be another layer of bureaucracy that a lawyer will need to deal with.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 05:47 GMT PNGuinn
"Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
That would be to have joined in the first place?
Pollyticians and their bastard children diplomats (or is it the other way round?) never seem to have read or understood any history.
Probably because they f*&%$ed it up in the first place.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 08:43 GMT Martin an gof
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
That would be to have joined in the first place?
You can argue that, but you must realise that it is an entirely different thing to say that we should leave now.
Had I had the vote in 1973 I may well have voted 'no', but then again with the mess the country was in and the raw memories of a war that had finished less than a generation previously, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time. It would have been a much more difficult decision.
This one was a no-brainer. Pulling out now is a much more difficult and fraught process simply because we have had 40-odd years of integration in the intervening period. On top of that, much as I really don't agree with the amount of power the "financial markets" have over us, the fact is that they do, and because of that we are probably in for a five to ten year period of stagnation at best with those of us still with large amounts of working life ahead of us struggling even to do something as basic as obtain a mortgage. However "broken" the EU is, and however slowly reforms happen (and they did happen) it simply can't be better to run the risk of returning to the UK of the 1970s at best, or the 1920s at worst?
Anecdotal evidence (i.e. a neighbour) from around where I live says that in the run-up to the vote people simply stopped looking at houses to buy. Estate agents' footfall fell to near zero. The evidence so far is that it isn't improving since the vote.
I know several people who voted Leave. Some of them are beginning to realise what they did. There is far less "crowing" about the result than might have been expected.
M.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 08:55 GMT Nick Ryan
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
I know several people who voted Leave. Some of them are beginning to realise what they did. There is far less "crowing" about the result than might have been expected.
Quite possibly because other than the rabble-roused contingent (generally the readers of the press where absolutely everything is blamed on whatever bogeyman is currently popular to blame: non-"English" (aka immigrants), EU, Irish, gypsies (travellers), communists, whatever - the story has always been the same just with different targets), a lot of folk voted leave because they were unhappy with politicians in general. This was not a great time for such a protest vote.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 10:00 GMT Phil O'Sophical
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
I would have voted Leave if I could have, and although I'm happy about the result I'm not crowing. My biggest concern now is that Remainers who won't accept the decision will fuck everything up just to "prove" they were right.
As for things not improving "since the vote" it's only been 30 hours since the result, FFS! Everyone will be holding their breath for a few weeks at least before making big decisions or changes, it would be foolish to do otherwise.
The next steps will be to identify a cross-party negotiating team, with business and financial leaders as well as politicians, and start sounding out EU partners to find out if they're going to be pragmatic and helpful, or petty and difficult. A long chat with Norwegian leaders wouldn't hurt either.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 19:16 GMT nematoad
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
"A long chat with Norwegian leaders wouldn't hurt either."
That's already taken place and the short answer from the Norwegians was "Don't go there, you really won't like it."
I despair, I really thought that the British public had a few more brain cells than they obviously have. Stupid, selfish and short sighted. The people I feel sorry for are the young ones. They will have to suffer the consequences of this appalling mistake. For once in their lives people really should have "Thought of the children."
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Monday 27th June 2016 07:57 GMT Phil O'Sophical
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
I really thought that the British public had a few more brain cells than they obviously have. Stupid, selfish and short sighted.
Way to go. Insult 17 million people just because they don't agree with your point of view. I think that really only demonstrates that it is you who are "selfish and short sighted".
The people I feel sorry for are the young ones. They will have to suffer the consequences of this appalling mistake.
On the contrary, they will be the first people in a generation to have the opportunity to fix the mess their parents created. Whether they will actually fix it only time will tell, but at least they have that chance now. Let's hope they don't screw it up.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 21:54 GMT Doctor Syntax
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
'My biggest concern now is that Remainers who won't accept the decision will fuck everything up just to "prove" they were right.'
I doubt it. It's over to Leave now. Let's see what they do, apart from act shocked as, for quite a lot of them, I expect, their sole target was to win the vote and let someone else deal with reality.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 11:11 GMT Stoneshop
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
On top of that, much as I really don't agree with the amount of power the "financial markets" have over us, the fact is that they do,
How much of that power can be attributed to the global financial market, how much to the EU and how much to the Euro (which the UK wasn't part of anyway)?
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Saturday 25th June 2016 11:50 GMT Chika
Re: "Never was so much lost by so many due to one stupid decision"
However "broken" the EU is, and however slowly reforms happen (and they did happen) it simply can't be better to run the risk of returning to the UK of the 1970s at best, or the 1920s at worst?
We won't. The Britain of the 1970s (or 1920s) had different settings. They had various connections, treaties and arrangements that they had to rid themselves of to join the EEC and leaving the EU now won't automatically bring any of those back. We are starting from scratch, pretty much, and any agreement or arrangement that we do get back from the old days will only be where the other end of that arrangement wishes for it to happen. That's very unlikely for two reasons; first, the length of time and second, the opportunity to screw the crap out of us is likely to be very tempting to any given politician.
Having said all that, I'm of the opinion that the politicians on both sides of the argument made this happen and that the whole business has been building for years. Let Juncker poke his finger at the UK about all the concessions and opt-outs we negotiated; he isn't interested in why we did it, nor is he really interested in why we are leaving, though he really should be interested because we may only be the first to go down this path. The only way that the EU can save itself from further embarrassment and other countries looking to distance themselves from it is to look at why we have voted to leave and, more importantly, why there was a referendum in the first place.
But as for the UK, it has to sort out a place for itself in a world that is very different from what it was back when the British Empire was winding down. The governments of the last few decades have sold off the family silver to other countries, the infrastructure never truly recovered from the last World War in some ways and any superiority that we might have had has long since disappeared. Yes, we have (or will do once Article 50 is triggered) taken back control, but of what?
We live in interesting times, it seems.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 09:44 GMT Doctor Syntax
Leaving aside the UPC element, consider the headline. Right now there's no basis for saying that patents and trademarks would need to be re-filed. Like everything else that involves EU influence there'll have to be a decision taken about the status of existing registrations. It may well be that the outcome will be that all existing registrations still stand as applying here after exit and that double registration will only be needed after some future, yet to be announced, date. In fact, I'd say that that's likely for the simple reason that sorting things out is going to be complicated enough without making further complications.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 09:59 GMT Martin an gof
And what about the Cornish Pasty?
With reference to a recent story, if patents are a potential problem, what about protected regional status for food items?
M.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 03:28 GMT JEDIDIAH
Re: And what about the Cornish Pasty?
Don't f*cking worry about it. Place of origin markings take care of this. I know d*mn well that Vermont Cheddar is not from Cheddar, UK. This stuff doesn't need Pythonesque/Brazil style regulation in order to get sorted.
If you are proud of your stuff, plant your f*cking flag on it and let the buyer choose.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 10:52 GMT Baldy50
Re: And what about the Cornish Pasty?
The EU employs three different protected status schemes, which provide differing levels and types of protection. Like the Protected Designation of Origin (PDO): this designation covers products that are "produced, processed and prepared" in a specific area, using a particular, usually traditional, method.
The only really decent Cornish pasty I have ever eaten were made as a special treat by a Cornish born friend using a family recipe and they were out of this world.
However every pre packaged shop bought one I have had the distinct displeasure of consuming has had a pitiful amount of filling and way too much pastry, tasted pretty bland as well, some bakery ones OK ish but still way too much pastry.
So even if It's called a Cornish pasty but It's crap it still gets to use the designation as Cornish because it was made there, another area of the UK could make a something similar to a Cornish pasty and be far better tasting because they're not living off the laurels of a preconceived idea that the name on the label means quality and also by a responsible manufacturer wanting It's product to be sought out because of It's quality
I'd rather the basic standards were a little better for the fast/convenience food we purchase, just because something is made in a specific region doesn't guarantee it will be the best product.
The article refers to 'the worldwide rape of Cheddar cheese'!
Is there any legal obligation for supermarkets to state where cheddar cheese is made yet?
The Royal Association of British Dairy Farmers has called for clearer labelling many times and although most cheddar not made in that region comes from Ireland some comes from Latvia and New Zealand, about forty percent of UK consumption.
I'm not saying they can't make a decent product but in this case alone the EU failed the consumer and if I knew that a particular product could be produced nearer to home just as well or better would boycott the one from afar and encourage others to do so.
The carbon footprint of some products are ridiculously high and maybe a label showing how green a product is with regards to this issue should be implemented in the wake of Brexit!
If It's made abroad because of very cheap labour and then wastes a shit load of energy to get it here I'd like to know.
If any disgruntled EU country decide to play hard ball about imports we have the distinct upper hand as they rely on us more, we buy more from them than they do from us.
Not every bottle of French wine is to my liking regardless of their reputation, German engineering Isn't always the best, cylinder head casting faults not covered by VW, the crazy stupid idea by German engineers of one of the Mini models by putting the air intake far too low and water getting sucked in, also not covered by them.
Not all Cumberland sausages are alike and in my opinion Newbolds are the best, pork pies too, they used to do a very nice Scotch egg far tastier than any pre packed shop bought ones, so does it have to come from Scotland to be good!
So as far as 'protected regional status' goes it doesn't really mean as much as it should.
In the case of cheddar the British cheese board has had more to do with the quality of the product to allow it to be called cheddar than this EU PRS accreditation malarkey.
I prefer Cheshire, Lancashire or Caerphilly cheese on cheese on toast to cheddar mostly so was a bit amused when in the middle of Delamere forest at a café and the only option was cheddar, what is it with Gouda was it just a case of 'we need something to bulk up a sandwich but not alter the flavour of the filling in any way'?
Some of the cheaper supermarket chains have some pretty rubbish makes of cheddar, very little flavour and most likely imported, only just reaching the minimum requirement to be called cheddar and until we change how just being packaged here is not being made here is clearly shown on products abuses will continue.
Cheddar cheese is produced worldwide the US, Canada but It's still called cheddar and the Americans do like their cheese, cheddar has become more popular in France but the proper cheddar that is!
So I think if you expect any country in the EU or anywhere else to respect our culinary treasures or industry over a profit your as nutty as me.
Brexit gives the UK governments an opportunity to fix some import mistakes in favour of UK jobs, if any have the balls to do something about this type of issue.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 11:10 GMT Notrub
I've spent the last 4 months campaigning vigorously for Remain, and seen very little input from any of my friends. I awoke yesterday to a barrage of Facebook posts complaining about the result.
Today it's a barrage of posts about oh well, it's democratic, let's respect the result and move on.
Apathy or what?
For starters, arguing that it was democratic is flawed - not when the campaign was as one-sided as it was with the sole source of information for many (the papers), so one-sided and clearly pushing their own agenda. It didn't help that politicians who've used the EU as a convenient scapegoat for decades were in charge of defending Remain.
But more importantly - it's not over. There are several paths ahead.
The government could ignore the vote - they won't, and imo it would be worse if they did - all that would happen is that they'd be kicked out in the next GE and replaced with a more eurosceptic bunch.
They could proceed down a route to negotiate membership of the EEA, but given that their chances of getting this without Freedom of Movement is as likely as a free-range hen laying an egg in your egg cup, I cannot see how this will silence the voices that called for Leave.
So, the only solution likely to appease the hard-core Leave brigade is total withdrawal - but I know many voted Leave on the basis that we'd end up like Norway - if the full economic implications of a full withdrawal from the EEA were laid out I think a large number of Leavers would be having second thoughts. (Note quite a few already are!)
I don't believe the government has been given a mandate to take the 3rd option, so to me it is clear that we need a second referendum that presents 3 options not 2.
1) Remain
2) Leave EU, join EEA, taking the best terms we can which may include Freedom of Movmement etc.
3) Leave EEA.
Get people to rank their preference. Only THEN would we have a result the government could move forward with.
I believe it is worth still fighting for this.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 11:12 GMT Anonymous Coward
Complete Tosh!!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it works for BOTH sides to reach an amicable agreement regarding Brexit.
It does no-one any favours to simply cut off the UK. It would be just as disastrous for EU countries if agreements which allow for the continuation of trade between the UK and the EU on MUTUALLY favourable terms were not reached.
All these doom and gloom worst case headline are complete tosh!
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Saturday 25th June 2016 14:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: It does no-one any favours to simply cut off the UK.
But it would be suicidal to the EU to make it look like a major economy can just leave and there be no repercussions. The EU will be thinking purely of itself in any negotiations, if they can fuck us over without costing themselves too much they will.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 19:25 GMT nematoad
Re: Complete Tosh!!
I'm not sure that that is how it will pan out. We have irritated the other members for years and by this vote has really rubbed their noses in it.
Don't expect any favours from the others, hurt feelings are one thing but the European Commission is certain to take into account the possibility of other countries trying the same trick. It would not surprise me if the EC play hard-ball "Pour encourager les autres."
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Monday 27th June 2016 11:52 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Complete Tosh!!
Yes it works for both sides to reach an amicable agreement.
But the positions are not quite symmetric.
The EU 28 population was 508 millions in 2014 including 64 for the UK. So the EU 27 will be 444 and the UK will be on its own. Posting from the continent, it is sad to see you leave but I think we'll do just fine without you. Since a majority thinks the same in the UK, I can just wish you good luck.
The negotiation will be lengthy if the 27 use the tactics used by the UK in many EU negotiations in the past... It may be harsh if some try to make a point like with Greece... or like Brexit campaigners (brutal critiscism during the campaign may not put the other parties in amicable mood).
Besides EU, the UK will need to re-negotiate everything with the rest of the world too. Perhaps starting to train negotiators and collecting tax money to pay them would be good.
New jobs: reimporting some of the Brussel bureaucraty... Feeding lawyers (not what the average Brexit voter hoped for I guess). Good luck with that.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 14:06 GMT Notrub
"It would be just as disastrous for EU countries if agreements which allow for the continuation of trade between the UK and the EU"
I've seen this argument so many times and it's barking completely up the wrong tree. It's a straw man. Nobody in Remain has EVER claimed that the EU would cease trading with the UK.
Firstly, trade will continue even if we leave the EEA. All that would happen then is some tariffs would automatically come into operation on both sides in the absence of an agreement to the contrary. This won't stop trade but it would make goods more expensive.
BUT the IMPORTANT thing is what manufacturers, who produce goods for sale across the EU, think about the whole thing. If they base their factory within the EU there are fewer barriers to trade - this isn't just tariffs, regulatory frameworks are more important. So any company producing goods in the UK may start looking to relocate - it won't be a sudden thing but it will certainly start weighting decisions on where companies invest in the future. On this note you should note that the leading Brexit economist admitted that Leaving would mean the END of UK manufacturing. It won't be sudden, but expect a long slow line of announcements over the next 3-5 years.
Similarly with our Financial services which have prospered globally on their ability to sell themselves as a gateway into the EU. Again, the downfall won't be overnight, but slowly but surely companies will start to favour other countries.
These are the reasons that Moody's has already set the outlook for the UK to negative.
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Saturday 25th June 2016 15:40 GMT Martin an gof
any company producing goods in the UK may start looking to relocate - it won't be a sudden thing but it will certainly start weighting decisions on where companies invest in the future
Are you saying, for example, that next time Ford is deciding between (say) Spain and (say) the UK to be the production centre of the new model (say) Fiesta, Spain will get the work? Sounds about right to me.
M.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 19:44 GMT JC_
"So any company producing goods in the UK may start looking to relocate - it won't be a sudden thing but it will certainly start weighting decisions on where companies invest in the future."
Anyone want to hazard a guess about how long it will take Airbus (EADS) to decide that manufacturing wings in Wales and then flying them to Southern France is rather more hassle than simply manufacturing them in Southern France? It won't be the toughest sell to get a few key people to swap Flintshire for le Midi.
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Monday 27th June 2016 07:10 GMT Martin an gof
I think the Airbus thing is different - it's not an EU project, it's a commercial venture. The main problem will come if Airbus can't easily move people around the factories, or if tariffs intervene. They already deal with currency fluctuations...
...or if it just becomes too much hassle to put the A380 wings on a barge. I also hear that the runway they use for the other components is barely long enough and can't be extended. I'd think these two issues would be bigger drivers for a move (and that could be a move within the UK) than most other things.
M.
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Monday 27th June 2016 08:11 GMT Phil O'Sophical
Moody's actual statement
These are the reasons that Moody's has already set the outlook for the UK to negative.
Not exactly true.
Their statement said "Moody's expects a negative impact on the economy unless the UK government manages to negotiate a trade deal that largely replicates its current access to the Single Market." (my italics)
and they confirmed that "Britain would remain on an AA+ rating, three years after it cut it from AAA"
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Saturday 25th June 2016 17:23 GMT Anonymous Coward
Forget Norway.
Full disclosure: I am from Austria, so from the EU, so not unbiased.
Now: The Brexit is a godsend for many of the governments, that are under pressure from right populists (Let me just name Germany, France and Sweden): By royally (pun intended) fucking the Brexiters hard, dry and raw we have the chance to show the people: "This is what happens, if you vote them."
Don't make the mistake of thinking, that today's ruling class looks at European issues with a European's eye.
And as a Bonus: Whoever want's to cherry-pick his EU commitment in the future will most likely go a bit easier.
All the best from the continent -
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Monday 27th June 2016 11:52 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: AC Re: Forget Norway.
".....By royally (pun intended) fucking the Brexiters hard, dry and raw we have the chance to show the people: "This is what happens, if you vote them."...." Yes, very telling that the response of the EUSSR hierarchy - especially the Petit Napoleon Junker - is to want to intimidate those still under their control into forgetting any democratic decision. So much for egalite, fraternite that was supposed to be the core of the "European Dream", their real colours are revealed - domination by fear and repression. Enjoy your future of no choice, lEUsers, and less and less democracy as Brussels tightens its grip!
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Sunday 26th June 2016 01:37 GMT tfewster
I'm old enough too, but I remember that Britain was pretty shit in the 70s. The Onion summed it up nicely:
http://www.theonion.com/graphic/case-and-against-uk-leaving-eu-53147
Regarding the doom and gloom - If you pulled your head out of the sand, you might be able to hear the many heads of state, politicians, business leaders, economists etc. saying Brexit would be a bad idea. Hey, if you know so much more than all those "experts", why aren't YOU running the country?
By the way, good luck in finding a plumber, doctor or nurse if you need one in the future - Not enough British youth are interested in learning trades. But they won't be delivery drivers or crop pickers either, as those jobs are apparently beneath them. Or were you going along with Priti Patel, who wants to bring in Indians to replace the Europeans?
Actually, what were you planning? I've not heard any positive plans yet from the Brexiters, apart from spending the mythical £350m several times over. You've got what you wanted, now you have to take responsibility for your actions.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 03:36 GMT JEDIDIAH
MD a Trade? WTF?
I dunno, if Brits don't want to become doctors you seriously messed up somewhere. So you lot like to brag about the NHS and then you abuse your medical professionals? Not that I would be surprised. Americans are huge ingrates about that too. They don't have appreciation for ANY sort of professional and expect everything for free. Everyone seems to devalue anyone else's job but their own.
Plumbing can be a lucrative gig and is hard to offshore. The same goes for nurses and doctors. Being an MD should be a plum job.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 08:52 GMT tfewster
Re: MD a Trade? WTF?
You're right, I shouldn't have called it a "trade", but it's an example of something that takes a long time to train in. My niece is training as a doctor, but there aren't enough like her to staff the NHS without poaching doctors from abroad.
20 years ago, it was hard to get hold of a plumber and they charged accordingly. True, they've been undercut by Europeans filling demand, and the job has been made easier by plastic snap-fit pipes, but even if the current crop of wannabe web-designers, market traders and politicians switched to plumbing, they wouldn't be competent in 2 years time.
Britain has become dependent on immigration over 10-20 years and reversing that trend won't happen in 2 years.
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Monday 27th June 2016 07:33 GMT Martin an gof
Re: MD a Trade? WTF?
Plumbing can be a lucrative gig and is hard to offshore
But it is also cut-throat, undervalued and risky. I used to be a self-employed electrician (Part P) and while the hourly rate looks good the pitfalls made the job as a whole (i.e. single trader, domestic only) pretty tiresome:
- Clients who expect free consultations and call-outs at any time of the day, night or holiday
- Quibbles about the smallest things; "yes, I know I agreed to X, but now I don't like it"
- Quibbles about the "making good" (always the hardest part of the job in my experience)
- Constant, constant pressure to cut corners and "bend" regulations, particularly the amount of time it can take to make all the required tests, checks and peripheral updates before and after a piece of work
- Keeping up to date with those regulations
- Keeping testing kit maintained and calibrated
- Professional body membership fees
- Insurance
- The ever-present "my mate says Y, so when you say Z you are wrong"
- Late payment of bills
- Difficulty getting lines of credit with suppliers as a small company
- Ridiculous bank charges for taking credit / debit cards (when I was doing it, a portable terminal cost about a day's work in rent every month)
- Customers who can now go to Screwfix and buy the parts at the same price as you can. When I started I was able to buy things slightly cheaper than "the man on the street", add a small markup such that they were still cheaper than B&Q or Homebase and make a small profit. When I finished, this was almost impossible and indeed I had several jobs where clients insisted on supplying all their own parts
There is still money to be made in the business, but realistically you need at least a two or three man team who can tender for jobs or contracts with housebuilders, landlords and housing associations. The odd-jobbing domestic electrician (and plumber I suspect) is under pressure and the only people who can afford to do it are those who are willing to work at the lowest rates, cash-in-hand and perhaps bend the rules slightly. It's possibly worse for electricians because people seem to understand "must be Gas Safe registered" and accept it much more than "must be certified by a Part P registered electrician".
M.
(rant over - I got out and got myself a salaried job some years ago)
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Monday 27th June 2016 08:30 GMT Phil O'Sophical
Re: MD a Trade? WTF?
The odd-jobbing domestic electrician (and plumber I suspect) is under pressure and the only people who can afford to do it are those who are willing to work at the lowest rates, cash-in-hand and perhaps bend the rules slightly.
If there's a need for the services, then there will always be people who can provide them. To a certain degree the situation with plumbers is mirroring that with TV & radio repairs. When TVs were expensive and broke down a lot, there were lots of repair shops. As they became more reliable, and largely disposable, the need for repairs pretty much vanished. Repairs that do happen are now plug-in modules that get sent back to a central factory, there's little demand for workshop-level component diagnosis and replacement.
Years ago many plumbing calls were to replace washers, unblock drains, etc. Modern ceramic taps have a much greater washer-free life, and as you say modern plastic piping removes the need for brazing/soldering skills, and DIY is possible for many things (not gas-related, of course). For bigger problems like leaks I think most people today would start by calling their insurance company, and the insurers would have deals with larger plumbing companies to handle such problems.
Other changes to modern life have also had an impact. You don't need a jobbing plumber or electrician in your village who can pop round on his bike, because they all have vans and can come from a larger business in a nearby town. They have cellphones, websites & answering machines. It changes the whole business model.
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Sunday 26th June 2016 19:57 GMT Tomato42
wait aren't you so against ID cards because they remind you of those food stamps from those "glorious" times?
yes, the times when you were young were much better, but it's because you were young, you had the vigour to learn new stuff, strength to overcome obstacles, not because they were better times
now forgive us youngsters while we're working on beating yet another all time world-wide low for people living under the poverty line and illiteracy rates
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Sunday 26th June 2016 21:09 GMT Deltics
Sorry, but this is just more Sour Grapes/Uninformed FUD
From the European Patent Office information regarding Unitary Patents:
<quote>
The unitary patent will co-exist with national patents and with classical European patents. Patent proprietors will in future be able to choose between various combinations of classical European patents and unitary patents, for example:
a unitary patent for the 25 Member States of the European Union which participate in the unitary patent scheme;
together with
a classical European patent taking effect in one or more EPC Contracting States which do not participate in the scheme, such as Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Turkey, Norway, Iceland, etc.
</quote>
In other words, how to deal with European states that are not actual members of the EU has already been taken into account w.r.t existing European states that are not actual members of the EU. So you will just need to add "United Kingdom" to that list of such states.
Sure, it may not be quite as straightforward as just adding to a list, but it sure as heck is not the END OF THE WORLD scenario being portrayed here. Only "as we know it".
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Monday 27th June 2016 09:46 GMT nematoad
Re: Wow the dummy spitting is funny to watch
"Wow there's alot of butt hurt remain supporters here, you want some lemon with that bitter??"
Just stop and think, if you can, why are so many people in despair at what the "Great British Public" have just gone and done?
Could it be that people are genuinely worried about the future of the country outside of the EU? Or could it be the prospect of the country disintegrating given that the Scots feel that they are being dragged out against their expressed will? The spectacle of politicians on the Leave side quickly moving to disavow the claims plastered all over the campaign bus. "£350 million a week, where are you?" Or is it even the fear that the next Prime Minister will be a mendacious, self-serving buffoon who puts his own ambition before that of the country? Just look at how that worked out for Gordon Brown.
If you could just stop crowing about your "victory" and start to actually think about what has been done then you might be less dismissive of people's fears and dismay. Though judging by your tone I won't hold my breath.
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Monday 27th June 2016 11:52 GMT Anonymous Coward
Patent attorney here....
...sorry, this article is pretty much totally wrong. The European Patent Office is not an EU institution, and non-EU states like Turkey are participating members. Brecht therefore has no legal impact on it. It's true we are probably out of the Unitary Patent but that's not a problem since the UK element of a standard EP patent is pretty much the cheapest on the continent (no translation and low renewal fees). The Unitary Patent exists alongside normal EP patents so we just become one of a bundle of refuseniks and outsiders, including Spain and turkey.
So El Reg, please don't try to eff up UK prospects by providing misinformation to Overseas employers and investors.
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Monday 27th June 2016 11:53 GMT Anonymous Coward
Patent attorney here...
....posted a reply explaining why a lot of this article is wrong, but sadly it doesn't seem to have been posted. Come on El Reg, you are better than this.
I'm short, the European patent office is not an EU body, so we don't leave. The unified patent is an EU agreement on bundling some euroean patents into one, and we now probably won't be part of that, but for reasons explained in the quashed post, that's not really the end of the world.
As a remain voter, I think Brexit is insane, but let's not make things worse by scaring off investors and employers will ill-informed scaremongering like this...
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Monday 27th June 2016 12:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
Maybe we can create closer ties with Russia. They already dump a lot of investments our way, so now that we have distanced ourselves from the whip crackers in Europe we could maybe get on better terms with Putin. Their country isnt exactly in brilliant shape either, but think of the caviar and the vodka we can send up to Scotland to keep the Glaswegians happy.
The enemy of my enemy and all that.