back to article Dad of student slain in Paris terror massacre sues Google, Twitter, Facebook for their 'material support' of ISIS

A grieving father has sued Google, Twitter and Facebook, alleging the web giants enabled the Paris terrorist attacks that killed his daughter. Nohemi Gonzalez, 23, was a student spending a semester in the French capital when she and 129 others were murdered by gunmen and suicide bombers aligned with ISIS. She was the only …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What a wanker

    Using the death of his daughter to try to extract some money from those companies. This is horrible.

    Alphabet, Twatter and Facebook are certainly evil companies and deserve to be sued for a multitude of reasons, but using such a tragedy to get rich? This is really low in my opinion.

    1. Mark 85

      Re: What a wanker

      Is he suing for money? Or change? From the name of the law firm, I'd guess money. But still, he has a point. Whether it's valid or not, remains to be seen.

      I do agree with other posters about the "ambulance chasing law firm". They play on grief for their benefit.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a wanker

        And I partially agree with you. In the place of the father I'd go mad in grief and blame everyone and everything too. I'm almost sure that he fell victim to, as you called it, an "ambulance chasing law firm". What I think is problematic is that he sticks to it. I can't imagine the pain of losing my kid, but even in the most extremes of grief you don't lose all reason. Whether he sought out to sue, or a law firm pitched to make someone pay for that tragedy, fact is that he agreed to make this into a money-grub.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a wanker

        The change he would want is censorship??? The Paris attacks came a month after Francis Hollande ordered bombing raids against ISIS in Syria. If anything blowback would be expected, yet Hollande only put France on war footing *after* the attacks.

        The "terrorist was radicalized by internet" tag line is from the people wanting surveillance and control of the internet. Justifying their failed data mining of outliers. They didn't predict these people because they're using non-causal data to try to predict rare outliers. Pretending correlation data is causal is just data miners BS. Pretending these people were radicalized by words, and not by Francis Hollande bombing their team, is ass covering.

        This hopefully will fail. And if GCHQ are spying on Brexit supporters using the excuse of Jo Cox's death, they should be ashamed. No political surveillance of brits will ever pick these outliers. focus on the supply of guns instead.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What a wanker

          The "terrorist was radicalized by internet" tag line is from the people wanting surveillance and control of the internet.

          If you're such an expert, why don't you tell us exactly how it happens then, and somehow prove to us that hot headed young men of this sort don't use the Internet in any way whatsoever?

          Your view is at odds with newspaper reports of court cases involving such people.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: What a wanker

            "If you're such an expert, why don't you tell us exactly how it happens then, and somehow prove to us that hot headed young men of this sort don't use the Internet in any way whatsoever? Your view is at odds with newspaper reports of court cases involving such people."

            A simple timeline:

            France starts bombing ISIS in Syria Sept 27th 2015:

            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/france-launches-first-airstrikes-against-isis-in-syria/

            November 14th (around 6 weeks later), ISIS supporters attack Paris:

            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-paris-attacks-minute-by-minute/

            The claim that the attack was motivated by radicalizing speech, ignores the clear causality. Newspapers simply parrot stories designed to appeal to readers prejudices as a means to selling newspapers. They do not represent some hidden wisdom.

          2. WatAWorld

            At least the Nazis only burned the books they objected too, not all books.

            @AC "If you're such an expert, why don't you tell us exactly how it happens then, and somehow prove to us that hot headed young men of this sort don't use the Internet in any way whatsoever?

            Your view is at odds with newspaper reports of court cases involving such people."

            If you want links provide them yourself.

            The logic of blaming Google, Twitter and Facebook is the logic of blaming the water company, department of highways and FAA for providing water, roads and flights to terrorists.

            It is even sillier logic than that used by Germans in the 1920s and 30s in their book burnings.

            At least the Nazis only burned the books they objected too, not all books.

            The Nazis didn't try to eliminate the publishing industry (they just tried to put it under loose state control).

      3. WatAWorld

        Wahhabi is the name Islamists give to their sect of Islam.

        He doesn't have a point. ISIS grew because the USA has done everything it can to aid and protect the Wahhabi kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Wahhabi is the name Islamists give to their sect of Islam. Wahhabi, or sometimes Salafist.

        The US government has spent the lives of young American men to allow Saudi Arabia and Qata to evangelize Wahhabism throughout Africa, Asia, Europe and now North America.

        Now we're having to put up with the Wahhabi terrorism that before struck only Shia and Suffi Muslims and we don't like it.

    2. a_yank_lurker

      Re: What a wanker

      The real slime is the shyster pursuing the case. I can sort of understand the family lashing out at more or less innocent bystanders but the shyster is enamored with a big payday.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a wanker

        [b]shyster[/b]

        You've hidden your antisemitism well.

    3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: What a wanker

      He is suing only a subset of the right people.

      If he is suing them for providing terrorists with a platform via news coverage he should be starting with most of the legacy news services (both print and TV) instead.

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: What a wanker

        Logically, the people whom he should be suing are the terrorists.

        I seem to remember that terrorist groups have managed perfectly well *without* the internet: its absence doesn't seem to have slowed down, for example, the IRA, the Mau-mau, the Stern Gang, or any number of other folk with a grievance and an attitude throughout history.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What a wanker

          I guess 20 years ago he would have sued Hammermill and Xerox, since they would have used copy machines to create leaflets to spew their hate.

          Hopefully this lawsuit gets immediately dismissed. I'm sorry for his loss, but this idiotic move isn't a good way to remember his daughter, and won't prevent any future attacks. That would require a change in US foreign policy, which doesn't look likely based on the two major party candidates under a similar delusion that you can defeat terrorism with bombs.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What a wanker

          "its absence doesn't seem to have slowed down, for example, the IRA, the Mau-mau, the Stern Gang"

          However, what we did not have at the time was random individuals with mental illness reading the output of those organisations on the Net and, as a result, going out and killing people. The three examples you mentioned were all territorially limited, while the Orlando massacre happened a long way from the Middle East.

          There is apparently some evidence that organisations like Daesh are now finding it very difficult to infiltrate terrorists or communicate with agents abroad - the latter sometimes resulting in drone strikes. Using Facebook or Twitter to broadcast their views in language carefully crafted to stir up paranoid schizophrenics and the like, makes it possible for them to originate attacks without putting their own personnel at risks. It's a little bit like the Nazis indoctrinating kids via the Hitlerjunge so that at the end of the war they could be sent off, without direction, with Panzerfausts, thus providing human tank killers without risking the remaining regular soldiers.

          There is a great divide between the EU and US over hate speech. The US thinks that allowing it will enable people to make up their own minds, but the evidence so far (Trump, for a start) is that many people are willing recipients. The EU has had a major war of ideologies in its territories in the last hundred years, which is why Germany has strong laws against far right propaganda. I incline to the EU view, partly because people like my father had to risk their lives so their families didn't end up in concentration camps.

          I do think that Facebook and Twitter need to be subjected to tighter regulation, and if it turns out that their business model isn't sustainable, well, the US knows where it can stuff TTIP. Protection of a business model isn't worth the life of a single person, whether at a nightclub or a Labour MP.

          1. tom dial Silver badge

            Re: What a wanker

            Although we did not, in the somewhat distant past "random individuals with mental illness reading the output of those organisations on the Net and, as a result, going out and killing people" we did have "random individuals with mental illness" (for some reasonable understanding of mental illness) "going out and killing people." One need go no further than Wikipedia to see that rather clearly.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: What a wanker

            Nazi indoctrinating children in the Hitler youth was as much about excluding contradictory information as speech. His men would attack opponents political meetings to shut their contrar speech out. So the only views that could be heard were his.

            Is Brexit a valid view? Can we claim the Yorkshire shooter was radicalized by Brexit views? Should anyone who uses the phrase "Britain first" be spied on by government spooks? Ban the Brexit views as radicalizing speech? Like Sweden where the government made it a crime to criticize their immigration policy, claiming racism, thus silencing critics of their open door policy and driving Swedish right wing extremism. Suppressing views is radicalizing actions, it makes people angry that their views are suppressed.

            Conflicted gay shooter in Florida, CIA head claims he was radicalized by the Internet, but family witnesses say he was upset when he saw men kissing openly. CIA man *wants* to push radicalizing speech agenda because he wants to spy on/control US citizens speech. A very dangerous thing to do in a 'free' democracy.

            "carefully crafted to stir up paranoid schizophrenics and the like, makes it possible for them to originate attacks without putting their own personnel at risks"

            How would they get the paranoid schizophrenic to read their comments yet not read counter comments? Magic reader magnetism? I think you're trying t craft a 'speech = radicalization' claim as a justification for attacking speech. i.e. *THEY* are weak nutters easily led by speech, whereas *I* am superior (non-nutter) and can decide for them what is and isn't acceptable speech. That's a dangerous idea. Elevating yourself as superior over others is radicalizing action.

            Trump has valid views, just because you disagree with them doesn't mean his views can be silenced, rather they should be countered with facts. He might well win against Clinton, she's weak, says whatever will get her elected, is not Bill. The danger then is that he attacks free speech if he gets elected, so we need to defend speech now.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: What a wanker

              @AC

              "Is Brexit a valid view? Can we claim the Yorkshire shooter was radicalized by Brexit views? Should anyone who uses the phrase "Britain first" be spied on by government spooks? Ban the Brexit views as radicalizing speech?"

              Amusingly on that topic apparently the EU has discussed such a thing. Not specifically Brexit but after the Austrians nearly voted a right wing party they claimed they would have blanked and ignored Austria and would fight tooth and nail (interfere in general elections) to stop 'extremist' parties from getting elected. Unfortunately extreme parties seem to be the only ones offering referendums or exit from the EU.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What a wanker

          The IRA is/was a product of a pre-internet age and survived due to the financial support of Irish Americans (mostly New Yorkers) that stopped in 2001. Without that support, within a few years enough weapons had been laid down to be able to call it a peace.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      @AC

      I have to agree, but for a different reason: "Don't shoot the messenger".

      Sueing Google, Twitter and Facebook is the easy and cheap way out, leaving the real culprits untouched. If I post something obnoxious through one of those sites (which I can't anyway because I don't have social media counts) then who's to blame? Them or me?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @AC

        Sueing Google, Twitter and Facebook is the easy and cheap way out, leaving the real culprits untouched.

        Yeah, I'd really like to see someone try suing Daesh. Good luck getting a representative to turn up in court!

    5. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. d3vy

        Re: What a wanker

        "They aren't actively helping ISIS, but they aren't actively trying to get rid of them either."

        Yeah! Google have enough money to build a private army!

        Wait. What?

        What exactly are you suggesting they do differently from what was mentioned in the article?

        I'd point out that if terrorists are using US based services to recruit people then they are a bit silly seeing as (as the article says) the services in question will be monitored and appropriate authorities will be notified. Completely stopping them (it it were even possible) would only serve to move them onto different methods of recruitment which may not be as easy to monitor - which surely would be worse.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I don't think the Orlando shooting was "ISIS inspired"

          Yes, the guy held some radical islamic views, but there's zero evidence ISIS had anything to do with his actions. If ISIS didn't exist, he still would have committed the act. Maybe he would have pledged allegiance to some other terrorist group he admired, but lacking knowledge (or even the existence of) any such groups he would have still done it. Maybe in that case he would have quoted an anti-gay passage from the Koran instead, similar to how Christian gay bashers have quoted anti-gay Bible passages.

          It sounds like this guy was a self-hating homosexual, who was being taught homosexuality is evil while knowing deep down that's what he was. Some people in that situation end up committing suicide, unfortunately he decided to take it out on those around him.

          There's certainly no way anyone can argue that if Facebook, Twitter et al didn't exist that this guy wouldn't have committed that heinous act.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            He was also gay, so obviously gay people should be banned from owning guns, and denied US citizenship.

    6. bazza Silver badge

      Re: What a wanker

      You're calling the recently bereaved father of a daughter most horribly murdered a wanker? You should go and look in the mirror and be ashamed at what you see.

    7. J. R. Hartley

      Re: What a wanker

      It's a typically American response.

    8. enormous c word

      Re: What a wanker

      These are commercial entities - they only care about money, how else would you exact change? By asking nicely?

  2. A. Coatsworth Silver badge
    Facepalm

    1-800-LAW-FIRM

    That name would be ham-fisted even for Lionel Hutz's law firm...

    I think mr Gonzalez won't get much more than exemplifying all that is wrong with USA's legal-happy mentality.

    1. a_yank_lurker

      Re: 1-800-LAW-FIRM

      1-800-SHY-STER would be better.

    2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: 1-800-LAW-FIRM / USA's legal-happy mentality

      Historical trivia time:

      Two out of three 'Founding Fathers'* were lawyers or had equivalent legal training.

      * Meaning, in this context, the delegates who attended the Constitutional Convention in 1787.

      As to the topic at hand: ambulance chasing taken to the next level.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 1-800-LAW-FIRM / USA's legal-happy mentality

        At least ambulance chasing lawyers don't shove people under trucks or spray paint stop signs in order to gain customers.

        We're -- at least some "IT security experts and academics" are almost the only industry that can't look down on lawyers.

        (Mind you, our industry seems to be slowly improving, unlike the legal industry, which seems more and more to be run only for the benefit of insiders.)

  3. Stevie

    Bah!

    Obviously lost in a cloud of grief and needing to lash out.

    Can't do anything to the gunmen. Can't do anything to whatever deity he believes in (a signal property of any deity is that they are beyond range of a good and well-deserved kicking 100% of the time).

    Can't go after the police. They did what they could.

    Thirty years ago he'd be going after the phone company.

    If you haven't raised a child you aren't in a position to judge the poor sod. I doubt he's fully sane right now. You could all more usefully pour your scorn on the ambulance chacing "legal advisors" who no doubt paid him a call as soon as humanly possible. That's where mine is going.

    1. a_yank_lurker

      Re: Bah!

      According to a few reports it took the Orlando PD 3 hours to get the courage to storm the club. So there might a legitimate suit against Orlando for negligence. It is almost a certainty storming the club within 15 or 20 minutes with whoever was there would have ended the tragedy sooner. The likely trade off would have a couple of donut eaters for more civilians.

      1. Danny 14

        Re: Bah!

        Storming the club without any intelligence is a bad idea. There is no good outcome when good people are killed by bad people.

      2. Charles 9

        Re: Bah!

        "According to a few reports it took the Orlando PD 3 hours to get the courage to storm the club."

        No, it took the Orlando PD 3 hours to come to the conclusion he was just stalling for time and was pretty much in Kill Until Killed mode, meaning it was pointless to negotiate further. It's not uncommon for hostage situations to run on for hours if not days, the idea being the police want to wait out the perp and make him (a) chicken out, (b) come to his senses, or (c) if it comes to it, open himself to a sniper. But as here, the police are also careful to see if the perp has no intention to negotiate in good faith.

  4. benderama

    Another case of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

    1. Dadmin
      Facepalm

      He might as well sue the air, since the attackers might have gotten close enough to whisper to each other! Or all pen and paper companies, since they might have written notes to each other! OH, THE HORROR!

      How did laws enforcementators deal with crimes before the Internet? Surely, there was no crime before the 1980s, when the Internet became a reality. :P

      Before that time there was a class of police personage known as the Investigator. They must have all died out when they switched from "figuring it out" to "you never have to think, just search for crimes in the crimDB, guy!"

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        > Surely, there was no crime before the 1980s, when the Internet became a reality. :P

        Yes but in the 80s it was because of video nasties, In the 90s it was computer games

        In the 70s it was cinema, in the 60s drugs, rock music in the 50s

        In the 40s they blamed it on the rise of facism and the invention of aerial bombing and nuclear weapons

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Up

          Don't forget comic books (1954 onwards).

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            I committed crimes because of D&D. The papers said so.

          2. WatAWorld

            In the late 1800s it was novels.

            In the early 1800s it was books.

    2. Francis Boyle Silver badge

      I think he should

      Look, I'm not anti-Google. I accept that it does in fact "quickly remove videos violating these policies when flagged by our users". But not wanting to look evil is fairly week motivation. The threat of lawsuits is a better one (even when they fail as I suspect this one will). And why is a company with the most powerful content detection algorithms in the world relying on users to flag objectionable videos. I suspect some extra motivation is in fact required.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I think he should

        I don't believe these companies are that quick to deal with disallowed or downright illegal usage. I see it whenever I look at their sites, which isn't often.

        They DO censor - enough to undermine free speech, but not enough to prevent great harms. Yes, they're damned either way.

    3. WatAWorld

      As it turns out, in the actual event there was only one gunman and storming the club would have been the right thing to do.

      Problem is, our police have been told to put officer safety ahead of public safety.

      Something they doubtless learned from US special forces whose doctrine is to put American military lives ahead of the lives of the foreign civilians they are supposed to be defending.

      Oh well, at least they didn't order in a drone strike.

      Seriously, the world is going downhill and it isn't all the fault of "foreigners".

  5. MR J

    Perhaps he should sue his employer too.

    Had they only kept him on minimum wage and deprived him of spare cash then he would have been like the majority of Americans who can not afford to fly to another part of the world. It is his employer who made it possible for his daughter to be there.

    Heck, He should sue his wife, and himself too!... After all, he allowed her to do it - perhaps even encouraged it!.

    Had we "Americans" not pillaged the middle east for so many years, had we "Americans" not done what we could to deprive other areas of the world growth and independence... Well,.. Had we not done those things then these extremeist wouldn't have ever come to power.

    So lets sue the whole USA. Lets sue Germany, their slaughter of the Jewish led to them setting up their own state and that has increased tension helping to lead to this stuff too.

    Heck, Lets sue the British French and Spanish too. Had they not actually slaughtered the native population of North American and colonized it then he wouldn't have needed to have worried about this.

    I feel sorry for the guy, but I don't see how this is a good path.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      You joke but every single example you gave has been tried and continues to be tried.

      And then some.

  6. YARR
    Big Brother

    There is a constant battle between freedom and security. There are some people who would seek to use this event to institute new limits on freedom of speech to silence those they oppose. They probably have lists of thousands of accounts they want suspended, just waiting for new legislation to be passed.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But what happens when the line becomes SO fine that just a single slip could ruin civilization (a nuke or perhaps some superplague a la Captain Trips) such that it can occur within the natural human margin of error?

    2. Mark 85

      Have you been paying attention to a certain President wannabee? Been refusing to speak with reporters who don't share his views? Shouts down anyone opposing viewpoints? Wanted Bill Gates to work on shutting down the Internet? Yes it is a battle and it may get a tougher battle to fight in the near future.

  7. raving angry loony

    Some points to consider.

    Google, Twitter, and Facebook (amongst others) *claim* that they actively and religiously weed out accounts owned by those with terrorist leanings. As they are censors, they can therefore be held responsible for what they've missed or left behind, since they aren't "common carriers" that don't censor the information being transmitted. In fact, looking at, analysing, and profiting from the data being transmitted is their whole business model.

    They also profit from the viewing of posts and videos by these groups, amongst others. And they share those profits with the groups in question, at least until they censor them. Even when called on it, they resist removing certain things because hey, they're profitable. i.e. the YouTube video of the girl being raped, which they actively resisted removing for a while.

    These are corporations that also help various dictatorships with their censorship, all because it's profitable for them to do so. Companies that actively profit from videos by terrorists and others.

    They aren't common carriers, they aren't protected organizations, and they'll do anything at all for profit. Why shouldn't they face the consequences of their actions in facilitating what these various violent organizations are doing? Or at least be forced to explain themselves in court.

    As for censorship - all those who claim "censorship" please raise your hands. All those who cheered when Gawker was bankrupted please sit down. All those sitting with your hands raised - you're hypocrites, slap yourselves.

    1. jonfr

      Re: Some points to consider.

      Reporting violent content, like a picture or a video on Facebook for instance is a useless process in most cases. It is met with "It didn't break our rules", report a nipple (or a breast, or a nude women) of a women and its removed just about soon as you press the report button.

      This is little better at Twitter and YouTube, but not by much. They remove some of this propaganda material from the terrorist, but not everything, calming that some of it doesn't break their rules.

      This man is not wrong, but I don't think he has any grounds to sue those companies. That is the government job.

      1. Mark 85

        Re: Some points to consider.

        This man is not wrong, but I don't think he has any grounds to sue those companies. That is the government job.

        I agree in principle but those three have their lobbyists. The government won't do crap because if their influence.

        1. tom dial Silver badge

          Re: Some points to consider.

          Lobbyists may affect laws going forward, but have little or nothing to do with the operation of a court.

          In the US, because of the first amendment to the Constitution, the limits on speech, understood in its most general sense, are very narrowly circumscribed. Some, and I include myself, think of this as a feature, not a defect. Most of the spew of the crazies is not and cannot effectively be made unlawful despite the fact it is hurtful or in terrible taste and its authors are worthy of condemnation and extensive public shaming, which the Internet provides for as easily and extensively, or more, as it does for the nastiness.

          Google, Twitter, Facebook, and others, as private entities, are not bound by the First Amendment and can do as they think appropriate within very wide limits (within the US) when it comes to anything remotely like political (or commercial) "speech."

      2. Francis Boyle Silver badge

        Re: Some points to consider.

        "They remove some of this propaganda material from the terrorist, but not everything, calming that some of it doesn't break their rules."

        This just as it should be. If you want to say that ISIS represents the "pinnacle of human efforts to live as Allah demands we should" you're exercising freedom of speech. If you say "come join ISIS and help us kill infidels" you're recruiting for a terrorist organisation. Sure, sometimes it's a fine line and people will often get it wrong but making the effort is what democracies do and dictatorships have no interest in doing.

      3. raving angry loony

        Re: Some points to consider.

        "The Government's job"?? Oh please, the government won't touch the wealthier corporations, even in the most egregious cases. The politicians who run the government are too afraid to not get those nice, fat donations to their coffers.

    2. a_yank_lurker

      Re: Some points to consider.

      The devil in policing posters and users. Since anyone can sign up without any vetting it makes stopping these posts, tweets, etc. an exercise of 'whack-a-mole'.

    3. Charles 9

      Re: Some points to consider.

      Tell me. how can people police terrorism when the bad guys can simply use innocuous code words, like talking about a birthday party? There's no way you're going to be able to distinguish talk of a terrorist act disguised as a birthday party from talk of a real birthday party.

      1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

        Re: Some points to consider.

        Tell me. how can people police terrorism when the bad guys can simply use innocuous code words, like talking about a birthday party?

        Such coded messages will only be understood by those who have already converted to the terrorist cause, know where to look, what to look for, and what it means.

        It's about limiting the ability of terrorist groups to expand further. It won't stop terrorists communicating but it will help to prevent them radicalising, indoctrinating and recruiting others to their cause.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    "medieval terror bastards"

    Now _that's_ calling a spade "a spade".

    I suggest that henceforth ISIS int al have a new name: Medieval Terror Bastards or MTB as necessary for brevity. ISIS, Daesh etc are far too fluffy, whereas Medieval Terror Bastards neatly encapsulates the whole bloody setup and its mission, perfectly.

    1. JamesKay

      Re: "medieval terror bastards"

      MTB it is then. I'll use that.

      1. Oengus

        Re: "MTB"

        Didn't the merkans use them in WWII? (MTB = Motor Torpedo Boat)

        1. Andrew Taylor 1

          Re: "MTB"

          What about Mountain Bikers, surely you don't really think they are terrorist's?

          1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
            Headmaster

            Re: "MTB"

            Since when was "Mountain Bikers" three words?

            1. Cameron Colley

              Re: "MTB"

              "MTB" has long been used as a shortening of mountain bike though I'll admit I, too, do not understand why either.

              As to whether mountain bikers are terrorists? I've seen plenty of averts for mountain bike tours for "t'rrists" as George W. Bush would say.

              1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

                "As to whether mountain bikers are terrorists?"

                I've seen some of their videos. Bloody terrifying (or anyone afraid of heights at least).

        2. P. Lee

          Re: "MTB"

          Numerical Value "2" but crucial for taking out subs - protect them!

          /Dover Patrol board game - 1930's-1950's version

          1. Danny 14

            Re: "MTB"

            Mountain bikers are a pain when you are out walking in the hills. Nearly got mown down by one flying down Skiddaw the other weekend.

        3. Charles 9

          Re: "MTB"

          "Didn't the merkans use them in WWII? (MTB = Motor Torpedo Boat)"

          Mostly in the Pacific Theater, IINM, and Americans called them PT (for Patrol Torpedo) boats.

    2. Tom 7

      Re: "medieval terror bastards"

      I think a better term would be Dark Age Intelligence Avoiders.

    3. MrDamage Silver badge

      Re: "medieval terror bastards"

      I'm just going to settle for;

      Allah's Super Secret Holy Army Terror Services

      Or

      Profoundly Ignorant Godbotherers For Ultra Conservative Kamikaze Expeditionary Reactionary Services

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why not sue the US government for creating ISIS in the first place?

    1. The Nazz

      In that case may Blair be allowed to file an amicus brief on behalf of the US government and become a co-defendant?

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      I thought it was the Saudi's ?

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        That is just where their base is. Make no mistake, ISIS is a direct consequence of US meddling, spearheaded by the stupidity of one Dubya puppet of the military-industrial complex.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          It's more than just a base. Saudi Arabia is responsible for the spread of Wahhabism, that particularly nasty brand of Islam.

        2. tom dial Silver badge

          Saddam Hussain was 65 or so when the US invaded Iraq and nearly 70 when found and executed. He was unlikely to live too much longer even if undisturbed by the US invasion, and it is likely that there would have been a succession struggle after his death, during which it is likely that Iraq would have been dismembered or fallen into civil war. The outcome would have been different, but it is not obvious it would have been better. Something like the disintegration of Yugoslavia after Tito's death seems in the ball park.

          That is not to say that the US invasion was the right thing to do; it was not. However, the Iraq's inherent instability, which goes back to the end of the First World War probably would have led to internal war, however much the invasion hastened it, and it might well have been worse.

    3. chivo243 Silver badge
      Holmes

      +1 for close to the mark

      You mean he should sue the Bush family, Haliburton and the CIA for being so friendly with the bin Ladens back in the day?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Better call saul

  11. Herby

    This is why...

    ...The USA needs "Loser pays".

    1. Charles 9

      Re: This is why...

      Many times, one or the other side has no money. That's why contingency lawyers are rampant.

    2. Crazy Operations Guy

      Re: This is why...

      The USA does have that, and has had it since the mid 19th century (Might have actually been earlier than that). In any civil case, the losing party pays all costs of the trial (both party's legal fees, plus some money to the court itself to pay for the used resources).

      This is why companies are so keen on suing people; their legal teams are large enough and staffed with the best-of-the-best lawyers so that they are almost guaranteed to win and thus not have to pay the $1000+ per hour per lawyer that their law army charges.

      1. a_yank_lurker

        Re: This is why...

        Loser pays is not the norm on this side of the pond. Normally, both sides pay for their shysters out of their pocket. What the problem with the US system is when one side has enough money to spend the other side into bankruptcy and the tendency for some very daft personal injury judgements.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Won't happen

      Haha! The yanks pay to receive phone calls.

      In America, if it can be double-dipped, it will be double-dipped.

      1. Charles 9

        Re: Won't happen

        In America, you pay for the use of the cell network, not for the call itself. Most don't charge if you call in-network. Moot point these days, anyway, thanks to generous allowances and flat-rate calling plans. Haven't paid for an individual call in at least seven years.

  12. james 68

    Money grubbing conscienceless wretch

    Does Mr Gonzalez drive a car perchance? Because if he does then I put it to you that he is directly funding terrorism by paying Saudi Arabia for fuel. The vast majority of terrorists in the middle east are funded and supplied with war materials by Saudi Arabia, this is well known but nobody will even think about bringing them to account - because what are a few deaths so long as fuel prices stay at a reasonable low and the oil keeps flowing? Making his support of the Saudis in effect support of terrorism. If Google et al are guilty then so is he, hoist him by his own petard.

    1. Oengus

      Re: Money grubbing conscienceless wretch

      hoist him by his own petard.

      There is something else I would ratrher hoist him by...

  13. smartypants

    People plus technology

    That is the problem. People are, and always have been, up for a bit of war from time to time. Before technology, war had a very localised effect... Inter tribal gangs warfare I suppose.

    Throw technology in, and look what happens. Never mind Isis, the worst fights we've known so far have killed millions and razed countless cities and towns.

    Unless humans evolve into something else, we should expect more horror on a global scale. This current threat is peanuts compared with what happened a few decades ago,not that it helps if it's your family that suffers of course.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: People plus technology

      Peanuts? I don't recall people flying jumbo jets into skyscrapers to bring them down peanuts? And have you seen the level of biotech these days? Kinda makes you wonder if something on the line of Captain Trips could become a reality...

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: People plus technology

        >I don't recall people flying jumbo jets into skyscrapers to bring them down peanuts?

        Compared to Stalingrad / Dresden / Hiroshima / Somme ?

        1. Charles 9

          Re: People plus technology

          Yes, because what you described require A LOT more logistics to pull off. 9/11 basically involved some 20 nutcases and—compared to the above—chump change. This is raising hell on the cheap.

          The cost to raise hell is dropping considerably, and that's a destabilizing influence on civilization as we know it because sooner or later someone will have a justification to raise as much hell as possible. But if one man can do it without a lot of external input (shivers)...

  14. vulcan

    "the medieval terror bastards"

    Can we now use this more appropriate "title" for that group instead of their own self-proclaimed title?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "the medieval terror bastards"

    Can we now use this more appropriate "title" for that group instead of their own self-proclaimed title?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No we cannot. "The Medieval Terror Bastards" is the name of my band

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Might I suggest renaming your band? Medieval Terror Bastards is already 30% of the way to becoming a semi-official Register title for Daesh, the same way that various companies get summarised as Box-shifters or whatever.

  16. Updraft102

    France isn't known for having a "bombs first" foreign policy, and it was France that was the target of the attack in question.

    The terrorists are absolutely clear about why they want to kill us. It's not a secret; they've told us many times why they do it. We're infidels, they don't like the way we live, and we don't follow Sharia law. They particularly hate gays, as homosexuality is against Sharia. The attack on a gay bar/club doesn't have any connection to US foreign policy. Neither does the attack on Charlie Hebdo... what brought that on was the magazine's illustration of Mohammed, which is against Sharia law.

    See the pattern here?

    Unless it is to adopt Sharia law and become a Muslim theocracy (caliphate), it's doubtful that any policy change is going to convince the terrorists to stand down. This is not speculation; it's from their own words.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Neither does the attack on Charlie Hebdo have anything to do with US foreign policy

      This is patently wrong. Those guys were Al Qaeda in Yemen, an organization which was not a factor until the US got an invitation by the Saudis to help bomb the shit out of that country to make sure "Iranians" would not take over (although no-one ever spotted Iranians taking over there, but that detail was never up for examination). Now Al Qaeda has a vast base there directly south of Saudi Arabia. Good job, US! I guess it has to do with stashes of T-Bills in Saudi vaults...

      The only satisfaction is that Saudi Arabia now starts to have slight problems with chicken coming home to roost, blowing up Shia mosques and menacing the glitterati.

      Charlie Hebdo was annoying shit anyway but Cabu was pretty good.

      Ceterum censeo, I agree with the following article at the un-PC "Unz Review", which has nothing to do with anything except that it highlights that crimethink and duckspeak are the bread and butter of major political representatives nowadays, but here goes:

      What Would Obama Have Said If Dylann Roof Were Muslim?

      1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

        That linked article is nonsense

        No one made any effort to point out that Dylann Roof didn't represent Christians or white people because no one was saying it in the first place. "Lone wolf" or "deranged" is the default interpretation when a white person engages in act act of mass violence even where their ideological motivations are quite explicit.

        For what it's worth I agree that Islamacists would be much less of a problem without the illegal meddling of powerful states (including the Saudis) in the affairs of third world countries.

        1. P. Lee

          Re: That linked article is nonsense

          >For what it's worth I agree that Islamacists would be much less of a problem without the illegal meddling of powerful states (including the Saudis) in the affairs of third world countries.

          For what its worth, they aren't really a problem anyway.

          Spectacular though it is, the damage they cause is so minuscule that it isn't worth worrying about. I wish my own government would stop trying to do things to keep me safe - they are the ones causing the damage. Compare terrorist deaths with car accidents, "normal" murders and suicides - each of them are far more significant... but less politically useful to those in power in the West.

          The correct response is to look after those affected and work to turn your enemies into friends.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: That linked article is nonsense

            And killings by christian terrorists would have been much less of a problem when I was growing up if they hadn't had such political, financial and materiel support from a certain country.

          2. Francis Boyle Silver badge

            Re: That linked article is nonsense

            "For what its worth, they aren't really a problem anyway."

            You might have a different view if you lived in Syria.

  17. Florida1920
    Facepalm

    First we fix the blame

    Then we fix the problem.

    "This complaint is not about what ISIS's messages say"

    IOW, ISIS doesn't kill people. Facebook, Google and Twitter kill people.

  18. Adrian Midgley 1

    He is an American...

    so of course he sues.

    Yet more resources wasted.

  19. John Deeb

    dad might have a point

    "No tweets, no YouTube, no likes, no killings, court told"

    Hmm, dad might have a point though in terms of social theory. The violence as inherent to the social fabric, as on earth as in online heaven.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OK

    The process for flagging their (ISIS's) content, or similar groups, must be quite difficult for these companies. Yes, it is users that are doing it, but remember; who is watching this stuff? You would have to distinguish between the non-existent category of Islam, and Radical Islam (which is pathetic terminology. ISIS, and similar, are fundamentalists, not radical), and I would like to presuppose that people who subscribe to Islam are watching these videos, not average Joe of USofA and Europe. So who the heck is going to flag their videos in the first place?

    If we had groups of Facebook, Youtube, and Twitter, combing over every utterence of allah hu akbar, they would surely be a) branded bigots and racist by those who refuse to understand there is a problem, and b) have a completely pointless, never ending, pile of random, and innocuous content to sift through, that they probably can't distinguish any of it as leading to one thing or another themselves.

  21. ecofeco Silver badge

    Just... no.

    His grief is understandable but his targets are way off.

  22. d3vy

    Ffs, might as well sue all car companies... after terrorists use cars for transportation.

    I think there needs to be a new lobby group set up for tech companies with the slogan "tech doesn't cause terrorism, terrorists do" seem to work for other sectors

  23. Tempest
    Happy

    Next, the orange-haired Republican orangutan named Drumph ...

    will be jumping up and down, as orangutans are apt to do, screaming that people of Mexican heritage are stealing American industries wealth.

    Just imagine if a judge of Mexican heritage os assigned the case!

  24. Maty

    obviously ...

    Why is this guy not suing the arms manufacturers who produced the weapons in question?

    Not that such a lawsuit would wn either, but attacking Google et al. is like suing the road builders - without roads these terrorists could never have reached their destination.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: obviously ...

      "Not that such a lawsuit would wn either, but attacking Google et al. is like suing the road builders - without roads these terrorists could never have reached their destination."

      Until they start using OFF-ROAD vehicles...

      And before we go even further, let's not forget what made the Ho Chi Minh Trail so infamous; there was basically no way to wipe it out, as most of it was simple clearing trails full of people hauling more than arse on foot and bicycles (in neutral territory, even).

  25. Potemkine Silver badge

    He's right

    These companies are much more prone to remove any copyright infringement or any picture of a boob than fighting hate speech. These companies objectively help ISIS for its propaganda and recruitment campaign.

  26. rtb61

    Sue the US Government

    A stupid civil suit that does not stand a chance. However if the individuals lawyer had half a brain, they would have sued the US government, the Israeli government, the Saudi government and of course the government of Turkey.

    The best target would have been the US government as there is sufficient public evidence to show they gave substantial material support to ISIS, against their own laws of proving aid to terrorist organisations and rather than face disclosure they would scream 'National Security' and settle out of court, every one could join in on that class action law suit.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Sue the US Government

      EXCEPT there's this thing called "sovereign immunity," that is countries CAN'T be sued for their actions unless they LET themselves get sued. Otherwise, as the ultimate authority in their respective countries, what they do goes.

  27. MatsSvensson

    Idiots.

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