back to article Gov to pull plug on online ID verification portal Gateway in 2018

A date has been set to formally decommission the government's online identity Gateway portal by 2018 - a move that raises serious questions as to whether the Verify replacement will provide a fit for purpose alternative. The deal to pull the plug on Gateway - which is most importantly used for self-assessment tax users - has …

  1. Richard Jones 1
    FAIL

    Back to Pencil and Paper Then for Self Assessment?

    Oh well roll on the good times, back to computer print outs or will it be pen and paper or pencil and paper? The better come up with something usable fairly quickly or something will go pear shaped. Will there be a period of either or or another fate-full full stop crash, cut over.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Back to Pencil and Paper Then for Self Assessment?

      At least it works with pen and paper.

      If the GDS Shoreditch wonders get hold of it - you will be required to use special pastel hued crayons, only available from a specific artisan crayon dribbler.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Back to Pencil and Paper Then for Self Assessment?

      No! Once you signed up to doing your tax return on-line, the other part of the deal was that you would never ever be allowed to do it even just once more on paper ever again. If you don't like their newly insecure security measures then you will have only one choice, to refuse to complete your tax return.

      For that, the punishment is the bailiffs who will help themselves to whatever they fancy. Because in the absence of information from you, the Revenue will be able to make their own favourable estimates of whatever they want to think you owe them.

      Best of luck.

      1. J P
        Boffin

        Re: Back to Pencil and Paper Then for Self Assessment?

        AC above is not quite right - there are occasions when you *must* file on paper; you can find the list here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516189/2016-exc-indi.pdf

        If you can get yourself into one of these, then you can, nay must, file on paper. Admittedly, they're not all necessarily practicable, or indeed necessarily attractive options - MPs are among the groups who file on paper (although interestingly it's nothing to do with shortcomings in HMRC's calculation software, but due to "security reasons". Not sure why they're mandating online for the rest of us when it's too dangerous for them to even attempt it).

  2. MrTuK
    WTF?

    Dell - Really !!!!!

    ROFL

    Dell - really !

    This is the company that decides that it no longer wants to support users of its Laptops with things like replacement GPU's, it just wants to sell you a new Laptop !

    It does sell Ram and HD's/SSD's at extortionate prices so most intelligent people go elsewhere !

    But you can't purchase Laptop GPU's except on eBay !

    So how can the UK Gov expect a better service !

    1. Phil Kingston

      Re: Dell - Really !!!!!

      I'd hope the Enterprise services and hardware bits of Dell are at arm's length from their consumer laptops then.

  3. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

    To be fair...

    Unless I've misread something, I don't think that the article states that the intent is to do away any of the services that sit behind Gov.Gateway such as self assessment etc, or the business services such as VAT or Corp. tax returns. So...

    Does it need streamlining... yes.

    Are the UIs awful and inconsistent... yes.

    Are the methods of gaining the Gateway IDs in the first place is a bit of a faff... yes.

    Then again... do the services generally function to complete the purposes at hand... yes.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: To be fair...

      Then again... do the services generally function to complete the purposes at hand... yes.

      Vaguely, if you don't mind having to enter your un/pw multiple times, and ferret around to actually find a link to actually commence a new sa100.

      Then the security questions, after you have entered the lets wait three weeks to get one id card.

      You faithfully enter the sms message code, then P60/payroll stuff?

      (not all taxpayers are in current employment, think of the pensioners for a change)

      Duh not got it, oh you wont be able to do all the things you think you want to do.

      LIKE PAY MY TAXES YOU CRETINS!!!

      The French did away with this crap ages ago, just enter your code fiscal (UTR for UK) and a password.

      Who did they actually pay for this site?

      Tip Never call the help line, you will loose the will to live, rapidly

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: To be fair...

        I expect the French have some gov. office where you go there in person with ID and in return get Internet access enabled and get a username and password.

        I'm not sure why the UK Gov. don't use the DWP or council registry offices for this. It'd make far more sense than getting Experian in to try and prove who you are.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: To be fair...

          No, they initially used the french equivalent of the UTR and the figure on the last tax form.

          Then they used the UTR and password approach.

          I think earlier than that they used a certificate based method.

          In all cases no need to a. visit, or b. wait for a password.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: To be fair...

            You can use your ID number and a figure on the last tax form in Spain, but they send it precalculated (often wrong) and you can't change it. If you want to change it you need a certificate, which you get by going to the social security or tax offices.

            However lately with all the changes in browsers and Java it works more not than often now and each government department seems to do any old thing, usually involving SMS, just to try and get people to do stuff online.

      2. Elmer Phud

        Re: To be fair...

        "you will loose the will to live,"

        I just did!

  4. AdamG57

    Yep, I remember when Dell replaced those Gateway computers... Ever so slightly seriously, tho, i can see there is a role for accountants and possibly others (trustees, executors) to fill in online materials for a user, which could well complicate authentication as a practical matter. As for establishing an audit trail, an additional column is needed to distinguish the agent from the account, but so long as this is included in the scope of the design the additional overhead is trivial: retrofitting this capability could be much more difficult.

    1. glen waverley

      Adamg57 "As for establishing an audit trail, an additional column is needed to distinguish the agent from the account, but so long as this is included in the scope of the design the additional overhead is trivial"

      Additional overhead (eg maintenance of who agent is, agent's contact details) might not be so trivial. At the customer level, agent can change, eg person can change accountant or solicitor. Or agent can change their details, eg name of practice (merger or sale), address, phone, etc - which can require a bulk update facility across many (>1) individual customer records.

      Then there is a bigger design question - is it the practice itself or an employee/ partner in the agent firm who is the name (etc) in that column? Does that allow further access - read and/or update acess? If the employee, what if they move to another firm but the customer stays with the original firm? One or many staff in agent firm allowed access?

      I've played this game. It isn't simple. Especially if all work can't be done and dusted in a single access session - and from other comments multiple access sessions do seem to be needed.

      But upvoted you anyway for the statement re difficulty of retrofitting!

      1. jonathanb Silver badge

        We push a button on Sage to file the tax return once everything is done, and it is different buttons on different Sage programs depending on which type of tax return we are filing.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    GDS to the rescue!

    Yes, come on down GDS with your imagineered 'minimum viable product' - a pack of HB pencils and A4 notepad.

    It's hip, it's happening, it's in Hoxton!

    1. Disgusted of Cheltenham

      Re: GDS to the rescue!

      A4? If it doesn't fit on a POST-IT they aren't interested.

      https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account makes it clear that the deadline-missing award-winning open but never-explain-delays Verify is insufficient for some of the 'services'.

      They already manage a billion stamp duty transactions per year, and many other surprisingly large volumes https://www.gov.uk/performance/services

    2. TinyDancer

      Re: GDS to the rescue!

      I think you mean Holborn, not Hoxton.

  6. happy but not clappy

    Verify doesn't work

    On multiple occasions it has asked simple questions, received the right answer, and then claimed it did not know who I was. So far so expected.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Verify doesn't work

      it's my experience too. However I was foolish enough to go ahead and try to identify myself with a couple of identification procedures which were rather... deep-probing. Answered truthfully, in the end, I was told they's oh so f... sorry, but no can do, and I am willing to provide some comments. Did those comments go to India, or black hole? Inquiring minds might want to know, but I don't care any more.

      1. AJ MacLeod

        Re: Verify doesn't work

        Glad to hear it's not just me. The Government Gateway service did require a bit of an initial wait for the ID to come through the post, but other than that it's worked pretty reliably for me for years.

        The new system has never worked for me, ever (and I was not particularly happy about the number of disparate facts about my ID it was busy collating.)

  7. adnim
    Joke

    Pull the plug?

    "The deal to pull the plug on Gateway - which is most importantly used for self-assessment tax users - has gone to Dell for £819,686."

    I do it for a tenner...

    "shutdown -h now"

    Reach for three pin.... pull

    1. David Roberts

      Re: Pull the plug?

      Why bother?

      Not needed any more, so just hit the big red button.

      Do it for £4.99

      1. Rob Willett

        Re: Pull the plug?

        if the Dell Enterprise kit was as bad as I inherited at my last job, there was no need to type shutdown or hot the big button, the kit managed to do all that by itself.

  8. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    So you've got a template of what works and what doesn't

    And they still can't manage to produce a better version

  9. D Moss Esq

    GOV.UK Verify (RIP) not the obvious candidate to replace the Government Gateway

    The GOV.UK Performance platform tells us that HMRC conducts about 420 million PAYE transactions p.a. That's mainly companies submitting their PAYE returns. Submitting them over the Government Gateway.

    Check p.6 of the Red Book and you'll find that HMRC expect to raise £182 billion in income tax in 2016-17 from this source and £126 billion in NI. Most of the £138 billion of VAT depends on returns submitted over the Government Gateway, as does the £43 billion of corporation tax.

    Take away the Government Gateway and our public services will be unfunded.

    The question is, how will HMRC replace the Government Gateway?

    HMRC have been in the digital business for decades. Unlike some people we could mention. Will they replace the Government Gateway with GOV.UK Verify (RIP)?

    GOV.UK Verify (RIP) doesn't "know" what a company is. Or a partnership. Or a trust. It's not the obvious choice.

    GOV.UK Verify (RIP) operates an identity hub, which connects people and relying parties like HMRC. That could perhaps provide a transport layer for tax returns. But it's not the only option. Just as well, given the questions about the security of the GOV.UK Verify (RIP) identity hub.

    Individuals and legal persons have used the Government Gateway for 15 years now. That requires submitting a modest amount of personal information to HMRC and other relying parties to identify us. In the main, that personal information stays with the relevant government department.

    You might hope that any replacement for the Government Gateway would be similarly careful with our personal information ...

    ... in which case, that rules out GOV.UK Verify (RIP) which requires us to reveal colossal amounts of personal information to large numbers of private sector organisations in the UK and abroad.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    £900,000 doesn't sound like enough money to run such a service resiliently and securely...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      [i]£900,000 doesn't sound like enough money to run such a service resiliently and securely...[/i]

      No, they are being paid £900,000 to turn off the old service.

      Yes, £900,000 to turn it off. Welcome to corporate IT land.

  11. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    If they can make the Self Assessment portal accept such bizarre and weird characters such as % & - newline and £ (yes! £ !!!!) then I'll be happy. I'm about to do my return a few months early because I want to rent a flat and the landlord's agent needs everything other than a DNA sample to prove that I am allowed to exist.

  12. localzuk Silver badge

    Wait, what?

    So, they're shutting down Gateway, but the new one doesn't do as much as Gateway did, plus it doesn't seem to work properly for the things it can do?

    What fool designs a replacement system that doesn't actually fully replace the old system?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wait, what?

      "What fool designs a replacement system that doesn't actually fully replace the old system?"

      HMG

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wait, what?

        "What fool designs a replacement system that doesn't actually fully replace the old system?"

        Is a methodology not limited to HMG I am afraid...

  13. kmac499
    Megaphone

    'Ere we go again,

    The UK gov has cornered the market in that world leading industry re-inventing the wheel.

    FFS just phone Estonia and give them the contract for e-IDs etc. They seem to have it pretty well nailed.,

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Simples

    It'll go to the banks - they already know you and this IS about money after all...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There are currently 42 million Gateway online users,

    I'm one. Forced to set up an account once, for some stupid pointless reason. Never used it again.

  16. PeterM42
    FAIL

    Oh well....

    ...another failed Government IT project on the way.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon