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back to article IBM's Internet of Things brainbox foresees 'clean clothes as a service'

Privacy needs to be baked into Internet of Things developers’ thinking from the outset, one of IBM’s IoT supremos said today, pointing out that “just because you can do something, it doesn’t mean you should”. Andy Stanford-Clark, in a keynote kicking off the Building IoT conference in Cologne, reeled off the monikers assorted …

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  1. Eeeek

    They are still missing the point.

    Recently my mother's stove broke down. She had a very nice one. It arrived before all this hoopla about Internet of Things but it had a computer in it. The stove itself could detect when a pot was boiling over and would sound an alarm. It would detect if you turned on a burner, removed the pot, and forgot to turn off the burner and would proceed to turn it off for you. It had a fancy convection oven with self clean feature. It had a computer in it. It just lacked network connectivity.

    Then this past Christmas day, it broke. Or more accurately, the oven got too hot and turned itself off when the turkey was only half cooked. The display showed an obscure error message ( Er and some number). The number was not mentioned in the manual (which she still had). So, I took the turkey over to my house to finish cooking it for the last 2 hours and we had a successful Christmas dinner.

    The next week, with all the boxing day sales on, she called the repair man. He looked at it, said that the computer wasn't reading the temperature sensor in the oven. Possibly the sensor needed replacing, possibly it was the computer, or even something had happened to the wires. It was going to cost almost as much as the oven did to fix it.

    So, instead, she went out to those boxing week sales and purchased a brand new, no computer in it at all, oven for about 1/4 the price of the one she bought about 10 years ago.

    Being technical in nature, I was curious, so I borrowed an appropriate temperature sensor, set the dial on her oven, and stuck the sensor in. Sure enough, the over got to within a couple of degrees of where I had set the dial just as the light that says it's ready turned on. All this without a computer.

    My non-technical mother has convinced me that there are definitely plenty of situations where I would much rather have something that lacks internet connectivity. Including my next oven.

    I hope this little story illustrates to a few of you just how wasteful it is to computerize everything in our lives.

    24 0 Reply
    1. fidodogbreath
      Reply Icon

      Re: They are still missing the point.

      The serviceability problem is not limited to computerized and connected appliances.

      When the mechanical timer failed on our five-year-old analog, non-IoT clothes dryer, the replacement part alone was 80% of the cost of a new dryer. With installation, fixing the old dryer would have cost more than a comparable new unit.

      We told the washer that the old one had gone to play at a farm in the countryside...

      9 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: They are still missing the point.

        Over the last few years I have replaced a washing machine and a dish washer. In both cases it was advised as "uneconomical" to repair them. Both "eco" replacements have turned out to have inferior performance that involves waste in circumventing their shortfalls. I regret not having the old ones repaired.

        Recently my Tu-bits microwave containers started to wear out. For what was essentially sold as a throw-away product they have done good service. Every source on the web says "no longer available". So I tried several different ones - all of which became too hot to handle. The ones that replaced them on the Waitrose shelf say "only for microwave reheating - not cooking" - and get very hot.

        It's getting to be like the old joke about asking a shop for something that is apparently no longer available. The shopkeeper says "You must be the 10th person today who I have told that there is no call for them these days".

        9 0 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          IT Angle

          Re: They are still missing the point.

          I don't know. Personally, I think the world will be a much better place when, thanks to my internet-connected washing machine, it knows that I prefer boxers to briefs and Spiderman Underoos washed with floral-scented fabric softener for special occasions.

          0 0 Reply
        2. BillG
          Reply Icon
          Holmes

          Re: They are still missing the point.

          Despite white goods makers cramming washers with multiple programs, he said, many people rarely used more than two settings. Manufacturers might be completely oblivious to this.

          Actually, manufacturers do know this. They offer product lines to consumers with two settings, and four, and eight, etc. People pay for the higher-priced models, regardless of how many setting they later use. They snub the two-setting machine, instead buying the 8-setting machine and then only use two settings.

          It's not about what features consumers use, it's about what they are willing to buy.

          7 0 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: They are still missing the point.

            Am I the only person who has a washing machine where all the settings are used? 30° stuff goes in at 30°, 40° stuff goes in at 40, wool goes in the wool wash etc. In fact, the various settings conveniently match with those on the labels on the clothes.

            Mind you, the machine only had one version. We bought it because of its colour (it's not white)

            1 0 Reply
      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: They are still missing the point.

        "We told the washer that the old one had gone to play at a farm in the countryside."

        I hope you were lying to it. Too many old appliances go to play at farms in the countryside these days.

        4 0 Reply
        1. Geoffrey W
          Reply Icon

          Re: They are still missing the point.

          RE: "Too many old appliances go to play at farms in the countryside these days"

          In my experience (as a rambler) farmers themselves are much better at cluttering their farms with old rusty crap than towny dumpers are.

          4 0 Reply
  2. g e

    Chocolate raisins

    Mice cannae resist 'em

    1 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Re: Chocolate raisins

      that is very true, they avoid cheese in my experience

      0 0 Reply
  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Windows

    "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

    And there we have it : the true nature of IoT.

    It is not to make your life easier, it is to allow corporations to freely spy on your habits, gather data on you and sell that to some advertising agency to make more money off your back.

    Oh, of course, it will be said that they are doing that "to propose products better suited for the customer". Sorry, I don't buy it. The current products are sufficiently suited for customers ; we like having the choice.

    My laundry machine has 7 programs. I always use the same one. The others don't bother me, they're there if I need them - which happens once or twice a year. Do they want me to believe that they will make a laundry machine with only 2 settings ? Nonsense.

    I'm sure of one thing : this article is just reinforcing the IoT ban field that is around my house. Not only do I find IoT rather gimmicky if not outright useless, but now I know to look out for yet more spying features.

    I really need to dig that bear pit around my house someday.

    16 0 Reply
    1. fidodogbreath
      Reply Icon
      WTF?

      Re: "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

      To "carry out real world testing in the field," you'd have to design, build, and sell a product BEFORE you have any idea how people will use it.

      Whatever happened to focus groups and user testing?

      4 0 Reply
      1. Charles 9
        Reply Icon

        Re: "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

        "Whatever happened to focus groups and user testing?"

        Inherent bias. The only way to get real-world data on something is to actually use the damn thing in the real world under real-world conditions, which includes not being forced to log every niggling little detail (the very act of logging introduces bias).

        I'm reminded of a part from Thief of Time in which Lu Tze points out that practicing for an emergency is never enough because one thing's always missing: an actual emergency.

        8 1 Reply
      2. NohSpam
        Reply Icon

        Re: "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

        To answer your false inference that doing this means a manufacturer isn't doing user testing...

        "Whatever happened to focus groups and user testing?" Focus groups are a bit last century but user engagement of all sorts is more prevalent and effective in IBM than ever before. Check out: http://www.ibm.com/design/thinking/

        IBM Design Thinking is being used on IBM products and in a variety of customer engagements, presumably including those with white goods manufacturers (or could be).

        Restless reinvention!

        I also think you've confused outcomes for one release of a product with evolutionary improvements made over time, to more accurately track users' needs (whether changing or relatively static).

        I've never stumbled across a business that says, "y'know that last product we built? That was perfect! We're stopping now as it would be pointless to try to improve anything."

        There's always something to improve. If a manufacturer can monitor aspects of usage with an intent to really improve subsequent products, then there can be accelerated evolution to better design. If they just want to gobble data... well they're rubbish and won't compete with innovative competitors.

        0 2 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

          "If a manufacturer can monitor aspects of usage with an intent to really improve subsequent products, then there can be accelerated evolution to better design"

          The Kenwood food mixer is an apparently perfect example of engineering rationalisation. The basic shape didn't change over decades but the complexity of the guts was gradually reduced.

          However at some point it appeared to be retrograde. At least once, if not twice, the drive shaft to the accessories was changed - making all the previous accessories obsolete. Then the solid cast-metal case was changed for flimsy plastic. Good solid engineering - replaced by apparently "buy another one soon" cost reduction.

          4 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

      "Oh, of course, it will be said that they are doing that "to propose products better suited for the customer"."

      My electricity supplier sent me a letter recently asking me to make an appointment to have a smart meter fitted. No mention of it being a voluntary programme.

      Today there was a follow-up phone call asking me if I was ready to make the appointment now. Again no mention of it being voluntary. The nice lady sounded like she was used to people explaining to her that smart meters did not appear to offer the customer any actual benefits - and had several negatives.

      4 0 Reply
    3. david bates
      Reply Icon

      Re: "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

      Mine has about 10 - I use two.

      It has programs for light or intensive sportsware washing. Sadly it saves energy by not spinning these very fast, so unless you're washing lycra or something you need to put the stuff on a spin cycle anyway.

      So whites go on a 60 degree wash, everything else on a 40 degree. And its still slower than the machine it replaced.

      1 0 Reply
    4. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      Re: "they could actually carry out real world testing in the field"

      Mines a Moat with Crocodiles

      0 0 Reply
  4. inmypjs Silver badge

    “just because you can do something, it doesn’t mean you should"

    Maybe the IoT crowd need to understand it doesn't mean anyone wants to do that thing either.

    "a less complicated dial or switch was one less thing to fail."

    Which somehow makes up for the several more things to fail you added to provide that internet connection?

    If I have to spend more money on an appliance I want it spent on reliability and increased life. Not on gimmicks and pointless data slurping.

    15 0 Reply
    1. BurnT'offering
      Reply Icon

      Re: “just because you can do something, it doesn’t mean you should"

      "If I have to spend more money on an appliance I want it spent on reliability and increased life. Not on gimmicks and pointless data slurping."

      Yes! Cars, lawnmowers, audio gear, toilets ... where will it end? Why do I need an OLED screen on a hairdryer? Form fucked up by phony functionality

      7 0 Reply
      1. david bates
        Reply Icon

        Re: “just because you can do something, it doesn’t mean you should"

        Ah yes. The screen.

        Its not going to be a great screen, is it? So it'll fail - long before the rest of the device does.

        I avoid things like mixers that have no business wanting screens for that very reason.

        2 0 Reply
    2. Charles 9
      Reply Icon

      Re: “just because you can do something, it doesn’t mean you should"

      "If I have to spend more money on an appliance I want it spent on reliability and increased life."

      But that's bad for business. No repeat pull. There's no profit in a one-and-done.

      0 0 Reply
  5. Lamont Cranston

    "“clean clothes” as a service, charging consumers by the wash"

    Nice try, but I'm pretty sure I could find some prior art for the concept of the laundrette.

    12 0 Reply
    1. Sir Sham Cad
      Reply Icon

      Re: "“clean clothes” as a service"

      Ah yes, the Internet of Thongs.

      27 0 Reply
      1. John 104
        Reply Icon
        Pint

        Re: "“clean clothes” as a service"

        Internet of Thongs.

        I salute you, Sir!

        0 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "“clean clothes” as a service, charging consumers by the wash"

      "[...] I'm pretty sure I could find some prior art for the concept of the laundrette."

      They were also the forerunners of social media as you met all sorts of strangers when watching the spin - and overheard all sorts of personal data exchanges.

      3 0 Reply
    3. Chemical Bob
      Reply Icon

      Re: "“clean clothes” as a service, charging consumers by the wash"

      This and a 5 gallon bucket:

      http://www.amazon.com/Breathing-Mobile-Washer-non-electric-Included/dp/B002QUAPSO/

      0 0 Reply
    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: "“clean clothes” as a service, charging consumers by the wash"

      "the concept of the laundrette."

      That's not "as a service". It's "as a self-service".

      0 0 Reply
      1. VinceH
        Reply Icon

        Re: "“clean clothes” as a service, charging consumers by the wash"

        What about service washes - which (some) laundrettes offer.

        0 0 Reply
  6. Mike 16

    Use Cases

    Perhaps a major washer maker could have used that technology to avoid a problem.

    It was a (then) snazzy new machine with membrane keys and LED display instead of old fashioned knobs. After a (very) few years it started acting up. I took a peek behind the panel and found that the PCB with the electronics was not conformal coated or even very well enclosed. Corrosion and failure had followed as night the day.

    How could the designers have guessed that a washer would be used in a hot, damp environment?

    6 0 Reply
    1. ecofeco Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Use Cases

      And you don't think it's deliberate?

      9 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Use Cases

        I was round at someone's house the other day and noticed their washing machine was ancient - must have been 1970s - 80s at the latest. Said Miele on the front. Don't have one myself but will be tempted when mine packs in, even at the price they charge. I have one of their vacuum cleaners and it's ace.

        0 0 Reply
  7. ecofeco Silver badge

    Rube Goldberg lives

    IoT is nothing but Rube Goldberg bollocks.

    The only way to bring about better goods and services, THE ONLY WAY, is to pay and train people better.

    0 1 Reply
    1. Charles 9
      Reply Icon

      Re: Rube Goldberg lives

      Which is not an option because of budget constraints and the demand for better AND cheaper no matter what. So what now?

      1 0 Reply
  8. Herby

    Things get a little silly.

    Microwave ovens are but on example.

    In my case, I look to my first (late 1970's version) microwave oven. It had THREE controls, and I only used two most of the time. The main control was a simple dial for the time to cook. It was nicely logarithmic in nature as the first minute was quite large, but the last one (minute 29/30 as I remember) was quite small.. The second control (rarely used) was the one that controlled the percentage cook intensity (I usually left it at 100%). Lastly the third control was the "GO" button that started the whole thing. Marvelously simple to operate and almost impossible to mess up. Fast forward to today's computerized (the old one used a mechanical timer) user interface. They have all sorts of buttons to control time, delay start, defrost, and which item of food to use, along with an incomprehensible display (which has a segment out in my case). You get to push all sorts of buttons and in a dark kitchen (my wife likes the lights out when se watches TV there) you just can't use the "touch method" to get going. It is a REAL MESS. The problem is that in order to make their product "different/better" a manufacturer needs to have something unique/new and match his competition's bells and whistles. This leads to an never ending spiral of silly functions and people like my mom putting yellow stickums on the "important" controls of the microwave that she needs to use (about three of them).

    The lesson here is that fancier and flashier (shinier) isn't always "better". You may have lots of controls for your appliance, but yes, you only select a VERY limited subset for everyday use.

    Applications for computers succomb to the same "feature creep", and things like Word or Excel take this to the limit! The software vendor keeps adding features so differentiate the "old" from the "new", I'm sure we have all seen it.

    When all else fails, a nice charcoal grill works fine.

    2 0 Reply
    1. John 104
      Reply Icon

      Re: Things get a little silly.

      @herby

      The software vendor keeps adding features so differentiate the "old" from the "new",

      "This year we put a 12 on the box."

      1 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Things get a little silly.

        Have to disagree on this one - I hate analogue controls on microwaves mainly as it's difficult to accurately set the time, which can be important. A simple digital control is much better. Agree with all the defrost bollocks settings though.

        Mind you, I'd pay to have a microwave that played the countdown theme.

        2 1 Reply
        1. VinceH
          Reply Icon
          Pint

          Re: Things get a little silly.

          "Mind you, I'd pay to have a microwave that played the countdown theme."

          That, Sir, is a brilliant idea. You are today's winner of the internet.

          0 0 Reply
    2. BurnT'offering
      Reply Icon

      Re: Things get a little silly.

      Wait till they add voice control. "Oven, grill my kidneys" .... "Aaaagggghhhh!!! Fercrissake, Oven, Stop!"

      0 0 Reply
    3. Charles 9
      Reply Icon

      Re: Things get a little silly.

      "When all else fails, a nice charcoal grill works fine."

      INDOORS?

      0 0 Reply
  9. Commswonk

    The lesson here is that fancier and flashier (shinier) isn't always "better". You may have lots of controls for your appliance, but yes, you only select a VERY limited subset for everyday use.

    Funny you should say that. Commswonk Castle is having a new boiler fitted, and its controller (not mercifully, IoT, although communication with the boiler is by radio) has more "variables" than I care to count. These are all set by pressing the correct buttons in the correct sequence; the number of actual "controls" (buttons) is in fact fairly modest. I'm not sure that I have the patience to go through it all getting it "right" for us so I (we) may well have to rely on the factory default settings, which I suspect will result in our using more gas than we do now, which is not really the outcome we want.

    Applications for computers succumb to the same "feature creep"...

    What would be really nice would be for the boiler controller to have a USB port that would enable the whole thing to be set up in a sensible fashion on a keyboard with the resulting customisation downloaded on completion. Overall that would be a "feature creep" that would actually be of some use.

    Even if it was only once...

    2 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Forget the USB port

      The boiler &/or control unit could have an embedded web server and wireless and a well designed, simple to use responsive web admin page, so that you could control your boiler or its automation with your smartphone or tablet or laptop, &c. By well designed I mean by a cross disciplinary team with UX design, interaction design, researchers and developers (with security skills too) iterating through research with real users, mock-ups, validation, refinement, technical feasibility, more validation, higher fidelity prototypes, alpha and beta code, more validation, and release - then more validation. Would that answer?

      0 0 Reply
      1. Charles 9
        Reply Icon

        OK, now try doing it on the same budget as the unit that just sets up a couple dials and is done with it.

        Ultimately, what may be needed is a law that declares extraneous functions as "unfit for purpose" and force manufacturers into the KISS principle for the sake of safety. Do what you're designed to do and no more than that. If it requires more than a power cord, it's doing too much unless it's an actual network unit like a switch.

        2 0 Reply
        1. Commswonk
          Reply Icon

          Fear not; I'm sure AC was having a laugh. At least I sincerely hope s/he was...

          Anyway it gave me a few moments amusement, which is always welcome. OTOH if the posting was intended to be taken seriously there is no hope.

          1 1 Reply
          1. Charles 9
            Reply Icon

            I don't know about the AC's, but mine is dead serious. Security has a necessary cost, yet it's tough to meet those costs when you're running on a lowest-bidder system.

            And yes, we have a clear-cut example of an industry incapable of controlling itself. In a desperate search for something to make itself unique, they're deviating from the job at hand. It's basically a sign the industry is pretty much fully mature and out of new ideas barring some game-changer. At this point, you're right, it's kinda a no-win situation. In capitalism, steady isn't sexy, yet the only instrument capable of reining them in is government regulation proven prone to corruption and therefore untrustworthy. The status quo is bad, but no one trusts any solutions put forth. It makes me feel we're already in the handbasket and just waiting for the lid to come down and the descent to begin.

            0 0 Reply
          2. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            If you meant me (forget the USB...) then I was completely serious. The outcome of good design is by-and-large, good product. Please don't assume all manufacturers don't care about design or let penny pinching trump design.

            The affordance of a web served app or website is potentially much greater than what you can mechanically add to a machine, and the added cost is minimal. Clearly, the machine would still need physical controls but web/app based control could offer progressive disclosure of function. Commonly used programs to the fore and speciality programs easily accessed but not in the way or adding confusion. There could be progressive disclosure of help for first time users and even community ratings built in to help the user make appropriate choices but also help the manufacturer make the programs more effective. The UI and washing programs can be improved in response to user testing, research and feedback independently (and if it bothers you - like it does me, then users could review the 'new' versions before accepting or rejecting them).

            I agree that there is a degree of hype around IoT and a lot of thought and user testing has to go into creating genuine value but the attitude in many of the posts here shows a paucity of imagination, a presumption of the worst of intent and an apparent lack of willingness to consider the opportunities.

            You'd probably be surprised at the high degree of scepticism I have about it - data ownership, cost cutting, product longevity/quality, etc, but on the other hand, innovative, more usable products that are adaptively responsive to users' needs, etc. This isn't black and white, so take a rest with the uninformed, shoot from the hip, no consequence mudslinging. Go get an education in modern usability/UX practices

            On the other hand, if you meant a different AC, then have a great day. At least I've got this off my chest!

            0 0 Reply
  10. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Yes, it's the same Andy Standford-Clarke who will be delivering one this year's Reg summer lectures."

    So exactly what useful information will we get from a man who obviously has never heard that laundries are a thing and have been for a very long time.

    1 0 Reply
  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At a higher level though, he said, the Internet of Things is about the data produced by the things, which should allow companies and organisations to optimise their processes or develop better products and services for their customers: “That’s what the Internet of Things is all about.”

    So the punter is expected to pay extra for gear that benefits the manufacturer; spaffs personal data; and makes the product more complex and therefore likely to break.

    3 0 Reply
  12. Oengus

    Don't use Cheese

    Peanut Butter or Pumpkin seeds work much better than cheese for the bait in a mouse trap.

    0 0 Reply
  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why the hell would consumers buy a premium for a connected washing machine if they only used 2 programs? To tell the manufacturer that they only use 2 programs, so that the next one they buy will only have two programs and wont be overengineered with useless crap, like being connected to the internet in the first place? Was Stanford-Clark just taking the piss?

    The whole point of connected devices is that they need to deliver something the consumer wants. That's why the internet fridge is such a joke, and why I don't set the toaster to come on from an app in my phone when I wake up, and all the other useless 'convenience' tools that IoT is supposed to make consumers want to spend a lot of money.

    1 0 Reply
  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tech can't do it all

    "Less trivially, he discussed how instrumentation and data analysis could be used to support vulnerable or elderly people in their homes, monitoring electricity use and water for example, to deduce if they were moving around or may have had a fall."

    Or maybe just have some regular engagement with the old and frail so they don't get left on their own with only the tv for company and the IoT to make sure they are ok?

    4 0 Reply
    1. Chris G
      Reply Icon

      Re: Tech can't do it all

      I am beginning to notice a trend here and on a couple of other forums, when a major player gets a mention on a popular forum they inject one or two PR/propaganda wonks into the dialogue to state their case in a seemingly informal way. However, PR and Ad guys have a style of language that sounds more like a sales pitch than a comment and should be taken as such.

      Most of them appear as nubes or ACs here, on other forums as new/ish posters.

      0 0 Reply
  15. VinceH

    "At a higher level though, he said, the Internet of Things is about the data produced by the things, which should allow companies and organisations and 'selected partners' (i.e. any third party who pays enough) to optimise maximise their processes or develop better products and services for opportunities for marketing to their customers"

    FTFY

    0 0 Reply
  16. Chris Evans

    Circular economy!

    'clean clothes as a service' is part of the "Circular economy" idea.

    The more I read about it the more I believe it is the only way mankind will survive into the next century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_economy

    0 0 Reply

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