back to article Former Microsoft HoloLens man: It's NOT about gaming

Microsoft showed off its HoloLens augmented reality headsets at its Build event last week, offering hands-on demonstrations and announcing the first shipments of the semi-public, $3,000 Developer Edition. Press were given two hands-on opportunities. The first was a developer workshop showing a little of the coding experience, …

  1. Owain 1
    Unhappy

    "We have a client in the architecture and construction space," says Hoffman.....“Recently they had a giant piece of equipment arrive that was different to what they had specified. It would not fit in the room they had provided. "

    So they brought legal action against the supplier for breach of contract?

    OR

    They sent it back, and got the right one delivered?

    Oh, no they decide the best solution was to build a model of the thing on the pallet outside, and the room, and then use augmented reality to see if they could somehow make the room bigger without actually moving any of the walls, or the floor, or the ceiling.

    Maybe the amazon delivery guy who keeps leaving my parcels next to the bins in the pouring rain could remove his augmented reality headset long enough to actually ring the doorbell the next time he has a parcel that doesn't fit through my letter box.

    Grrr (Yes it's monday morning and it's raining).

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      If the equipment was needed to keep production going, then knocking down a wall - and charging the cost to the supplier - would be the quickest and most cost effective solution. Regardless of who made the cock-up, the situation needs to be fixed. But hey, you're right, it's a pretty miserable Monday morning!

      It was only an example - the point remains the same, that it is a tool that can aid collaboration between (in the example) a structural engineer, an architectural systems engineer and a contractor. So they can discuss which wall will be the least headache to remove, given the location of services like electrical cabling and water, the height of lifting gear, that sort of stuff.

      All modern building are design in CAD anyway, the Unity engine is already commonly used for architectural walk-troughs. The expected price of AR kit like this is tiny compared to CAD display systems of the past, and offers some demonstrable advantages. And that is just in one sector, architecture and building.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        PR at work

        @ " the point remains the same, that it is a tool that can aid collaboration between (in the example) a structural engineer, an architectural systems engineer and a contractor"

        They didn't know the dimensions of the machine, yet they make a VR model of it in its true dimensions? And had a VR ready model of their building? So all they had to do was add the headset, ... well except they didn't need the headset.

        I don't think there was a machine they ordered that was bigger than specified and wouldn't fit into a room. Rather I think a PR man in Microsoft was given the job of writing a use case for this where its not a toy, but a cost saving tool, and so he dreamed up this nonsense.

    2. Halfmad

      Or just get a trainee to help

      Back in the 90s I use to be a CAD Draughtsman earning a couple of quid an hour. I was training in civil engineering at the time, which would change to electrical engineering then IT later on.

      However I was put in charge of planning entire factories for some of the larger clothing manufacturers today, many of whom charge a fortune for their shoes which are made in foreign, low paying countries.

      I'd have to work out the flow of goods through the factory, how supplies were brought in, movement of staff and maintenance of equipment as well as **** hits the fan full blown equipment replacements. I did this all using a DOS version of Autocad, a calculator, a note book and lots of talking to actual factory workers and managers.

      It's rarely an architect who does this sort of work, they're far more interested in how the building looks and what it's made of, they expect engineers to fit everything into their vision but no way in earth would they give two hoots about the gear going in - unless it'd spoil the view.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: Or just get a trainee to help

        That sounds eerily familiar ...

  2. Mage Silver badge

    UWP

    Oh dear.

    How stupid.

    Windows Phone is dead.

    How would a phone or tablet have the computational power to avoid lag in movement?

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: UWP

      >How would a phone or tablet have the computational power to avoid lag in movement?

      Very easily. It only takes a lot of grunt to shift 4k prettily rendered pixels around at 90 frames per second. If you just want to display more simply rendered polygons at a lower res - or even 2D schematics marking out the location of electrical cabling, say - the hardware required is far more modest.

      'Lag' is not directly related to computational power per se - in the same way that bandwidth isn't the same thing as ping time.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: UWP

        If you just want to display more simply rendered polygons at a lower res - or even 2D schematics marking out the location of electrical cabling, say - the hardware required is far more modest.

        Obviously you don't understand the differences between say 3D stereoscopic and a headset, the response time to changes isn't the same as the GPU ability to draw (which is often poor for 2D CAD compared to video).

        You need very much more responsive systems to avoid motion sickness.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: UWP

          You're confused, Mage.

          Input to output lag is not the same thing as raw computational power.

          Input to output lag is a function of the system design as a whole. In this case, the input is head motion and the output is rendered content - 2D desktops and 3D polygons. What the Hololens device is not trying to do is render millions of polygons to provide eye candy for a gamer ('console-level' graphics), such as Oculus or Sony's PSVR efforts seek to do. Rendering CAD models, which typically contain far fewer ploygons than a virtual environment in a video game) at 90 fps is easily doable with tablet-grade silicon (and CAD software for years is designed to simplify the display of large assemblies to match hardware, and the video game world has other tricks that can be used - see http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/15/halo-5-frame-rate-resolution/). For sure, it will be custom silicon designed for minimal latency, but its power consumption and thermal design parameters will be comparable to what's currently available on tablets.

          So input latency won't be an issue due to the GPU. Also, you've failed to note that the Hololens display doesn't fill your field of view - it is equivalent to a 15" monitor - so nausea is very unlikely.

          I haven't mentioned the Kinect-like object tracking systems on the Hololens (again, specialist silicon with a very high data throughput) with regard to nausea, because this work only needs to be done to build a scene - it is the head-tracking which keeps thing where they should be, so the depth-sensing isn't as crucial. Real time object tracking has also been done by Google's Project Tango, and about to be shipped in a phone by Lenovo. Intel have been at it for a few years now, and made an acquisition in this area only last week. nVidia too have set their sights on machine vision processing.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. DrXym

      Re: UWP

      UWP is an API which works on Windows (including IoT), XBox, Windows Mobile and presumably other form factors in time. It sweeps 20 years of accumulated junk and obsolete / badly documented / deprecated functionality to be found in Win32, OLE2, COM and so forth.

      The biggest issue with UWP is it is tied to Windows store and software makers are up in arms about it. They want the ability to write UWP apps that install and run from anywhere and from any store. Another issue is it is quite immature so 3rd party support is poor and some games have had issues like refresh rates and vsync but presumably those issues will be fixed in time.

  3. Mystic Megabyte
    FAIL

    >30 years later

    Back in the early 80s I played a game on AFAIR an Amiga using 3D glasses. It was a two player spaceship game set in a little universe that had a planetoid gravity attractor at the top and a hanger on the ground below. To re-charge your ship you had to land and make contact with the hanger. The glasses were LCD strobed viewing alternate frames in each eye.

    I'm not rushing out to buy one, maybe wait 20 years for a open standard to appear.

  4. DrXym

    If that's their use case then its doomed

    The whole "not about gaming" thing wasn't Microsoft's tune a few years back. The failure of Kinect and the horrifying cost of the headset probably scared them out of their plans for games.

    So now they're pitching at the enterprise and the use case of walking around something is pretty niche. There are better use cases for factories and warehouses to do stuff like order fulfillment, monitor machinery etc. I guess AR might be useful if it tells you which aisle to get some box from although I can think of lower tech solutions which would probably work better.

    VR also competes for the architecture / full size use case. and in some respects is more flexible, e.g. an architect could actually explore his building, climb the virtual stairs, play with lighting, day / night, fly around it, rather than see what it looks like stood from one place as an AR headset would imply.

    1. frank ly

      Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

      Exactly. Why walk around a large building when you can fly around it?

      Even for real world scene overlays, I'd have thought that a simple head-mounted camera arrangement could be set up and fed to the computer for analysis, then have graphics overlay superimposed for feeding to the viewer.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

      > I guess AR might be useful if it tells you which aisle to get some box from although I can think of lower tech solutions which would probably work better.

      Not only which aisle, but which box. And show you a picture of the thing you need to get from the box. And then 'highlight' the desired packet for you, based on its general appearance or else (technically easier) reading the barcodes. I've worked in a second-hand book warehouse, and an AR system has potential to save time and in a few parts of the workflow.

      If you are employing someone at minimum wage purely to pick items from stock, then any time savings quickly add up

      >VR also competes for the architecture / full size use case

      For the architects and clients, yes. For the site and the construction engineers, an AR approach makes more sense.

      Only last week I was helping some friends prepare the concrete floor of a barn prior to internal partitions being fitted for stables. Whilst the job of envisioning the stables and calculating where to cut 'V' channels for drainage could be done in the head, an AR system would give reassurance, and the job of measuring and marking much quicker.

      Then side boards had to fit in channels in the steel up-rights, with a notch cut into the ends of each beam to let them sit at floor-level. Due to deviances in the distance between uprights, and variation in the height of the poured-concrete floor, we couldn't use a standard template for each notch, and each board had to be offered up and marked. A system that would 'look' at the existing dimensions and then 'project' some cutting lines onto the wood would have saved some double-handling.

      1. DrXym

        Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

        "Not only which aisle, but which box. "

        Yes it could but as I said, I reckon there are lower tech solutions which would be as good if not better. I expect most fulfillment warehouses use tablet / scanners that issue a job, give a picture & description of the item and where it's located. It could even direct the person to the item using navigation beacons. None of it would require someone to wear a hot and sweaty visor all day which needs constant recharging. I should add that Amazon (for example) randomizes its warehouses to minimize the chances of someone picking up the wrong item because similar items are not placed directly next to each other.

        "For the architects and clients, yes. For the site and the construction engineers, an AR approach makes more sense."

        That depends on what you're constructing and how you expect to view it. AR basically means you see it full size (not much use for that new flyover), or a mini version, e.g. on a tabletop. Neither might be much use and I think AR is still a hard sell.

        1. Vic

          Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

          I think AR is still a hard sell.

          I can think of a few applications for it - but I'd want something much smaller and less obtrusive, even if that means a significant drop in the video resolution.

          I'd like to play with something like Google Glass, but there's no way I'm shelling out that sort of cash on a punt...

          Vic.

        2. L05ER

          Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

          your wording makes it extremely obvious this is all merely speculation for you, and NOTHING more. if you aren't involved in the construction industry you shouldn't speculate on its needs, at all.

          example: don't try telling granite installers that a well trained guy measuring their installs is better than a semi-trained guy with a $15k laser measuring device.

          devices like what i just mentioned are undoubtedly going to be more common than AR, but what you shouldn't doubt is that any business that can see a benefit from it... will do so.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

            "if you aren't involved in the construction industry you shouldn't speculate on its needs, at all."

            Well, the original poster wasn't really talking about "the construction industry", now was he. He was talking about knocking together a barn with a friend of his. In THAT case, the back-end programming and modelling needed to virtualize his new barn to the point where it could project cutting lines on the lumber might become a huge time sink. Not to say it wouldn't be an interesting thing to do, but unless the two guys are gurus at Autocad and Hololens, then they'd basically be spending a lot of time doing what my wife refers to as "dicking around in the shop".

            But in the construction industry itself, yeah, this could have value where there are folks who can put together the programming and modelling quickly and efficiently. And no, I'm not involved in the construction industry, but yes, I did just comment on it's needs. It's the Internet you know, you can't really tell us what to do and expect us to obey.

      2. Seajay#

        Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

        > Not only which aisle, but which box. And show you a picture of the thing you need to get from the box. And then 'highlight' the desired packet for you, based on its general appearance or else (technically easier) reading the barcodes.

        If your computer can do all that, what exactly is the meatbag bringing to the party?

        > If you are employing someone at minimum wage purely to pick items from stock,

        Then tell them to start looking for a new job

      3. Vic

        Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

        A system that would 'look' at the existing dimensions and then 'project' some cutting lines onto the wood would have saved some double-handling.

        I'm not entirely au fait with the HoloLens, but it strikes me that someone would need to code up the displays you describe.

        This is going to add a chunk of cost as well as - more significantly - add a delay between wanting an answer and getting it. I can't see that sort of thing taking off unless the operation at hand is repeated regularly; that pretty much rules out most jobs in building construction...

        Vic.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

          > it strikes me that someone would need to code up the displays you describe.

          It would simply be a case of selecting the two physical vertices of interest (either by touching them with a finger or pen, or by highlighing them on a superimposed wireframe display), and 'pasting' them onto the material you want to cut, then dragging the sketch until it 'snaps' to the corner or edge of the board.

          All of this operation could be done with a UI similar to that already used in CAD. The conventions of selection, filtering, sketching, constraints, snapping etc are still the same. It just means that real, physical objects in front of you can be used as reference objects.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

          "I'm not entirely au fait with the HoloLens, but it strikes me that someone would need to code up the displays you describe."

          I thought that too. By the time you found some yoof who was fluent with the HoloLens system and actually could bring these ideas to (virtual) reality, a competent carpenter would have been finished 20 times over.

    3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: If that's their use case then its doomed

      The whole "not about gaming" thing wasn't Microsoft's tune a few years back

      Cleaning the motion sickness vomit from the "holodeck" for a few years fixed that. VR and augmented reality are priceless when working on CAD and construction of any sorts. The actual hardware reqs for that are also low and the customers are well conditioned to pay extortionate amounts of money by AutoDesk and Co.

      Games - not so much. On all counts - the money is nowhere near, the rates and reqs are off the scale, etc.

  5. frank ly

    "... too ungainly for gaming, ..."

    What does that say about the Occulus Rift headset?

  6. Gordon 10
    Windows

    You can also now see the Windows 10 Start screen

    Help! How do I program the Hololens to make it seem like the Win 7 start screen?

  7. Spender

    Augmented reality?

    ...because everyone wants to walk around looking like an utter twonk. Until it becomes difficult to distinguish between the haves and the have-nots, this tech won't fly.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Augmented reality?

      You didn't notice that the example use-cases were all situations in which goggles and hard-hats, or other pieces of PPE, are commonly worn anyway?

  8. Mark 85
    Devil

    Call centers?

    I can almost visualize issuing these to call center personnel. They can walk around, go to the restroom, snack bar and continue working since a PC screen could be floating right in front of them at all times. </sarc or maybe not>

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Call centers?

      sarcasm tags

      maybe not.

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